It could be to do with something called “ablaut reduplication”. Very basically English has a - kind of - untaught sound order that native speakers inherently apply to the language. Wikipedia will have an article to explain it better. Specifically the vowel order I-A-O. A great example is the phrase “Bish bash bosh” which is getting coverage recently. (One notable exception is “shit, shower, shave” but that is probably down to the chronology of the actions.)
Go further. For example, people say 'gypped' without knowing it's a pejorative reference to the word 'Gypsy' which is itself a pejorative of the Romani.
My favorite recently is sophist from the pejorative Platonic definition. It really puts words like sophisticated in a different etymological light and subtle contextual meaning.
I remember learning this about 20ish years ago and telling my then-sister in law about it when I explained why I wasn't going to use it anymore. I got told I had a stick up my ass, and this was by a marginalized (gay, immigrant) woman. (Somewhat unrelated note - very grateful she's a former relation.)
So glad people have been learning and I've been hearing "gypped" less and less in recent years.
I've definitely had a similar feeling with band names and brand names, etc. You're just so used to hearing them that they are their own thing without being the component words that the name contains.
I think the pronunciation, specifically the blending of the end of "upside" and beginning of "down", turns it into one of those compound words that your brain interprets as an independent word, rather than a combination of its composite parts.
Unused to wonder if the radio announcers that are always reciting the station call letters found that the letters stopped sounding like individual sounds, and the whole recitation became a sort of "word" for them. Like "You're listening to 102.9FM WBLM!" Did it stop being "double-you bee ell emm," and turn into more of a mashup of "dubbleyabeeyelmm"?
True, the difference is pretty subtle, especially to a listener, but I wonder strange things sometimes...
I think this is the case for a lot of words. It ceases to be a combination of words and it's just one word. Then in the shower you break it down and ohhh.
Overlooks that was to someone that called someone dense and that I specified "with that attitude". 😬 Just like I called out your comment. This is not a paradox of intolerance.
And a quick look at your profile shows that you are rife with those kind of comments.
And then someone tries that again with "Just realized that "downside up" means "the down side is up", making it downside up" to see if it makes anymore sense.
Apparently "W" was originally written as "uu" as early as ~600AD, hence the name, however it still used Latin/Roman letters which hadn't yet distinguished between u and v as letters. For at least 700 years, u and v appear to have been considered the same and interchangeable (so "Double U " could look like "uu" or "vv") but it depends on your language whether it was verbally called a "U" or a "V" until the first recorded distinction between the two in a Gothic era alphabet written in 1386. The two apparently did still see some overlap in use until about the 1700s with the turning point appearing to be when the distinction between their capital forms was accepted by the French Academy in 1726.
tl;dr: "Double U" predates the distinction between "U" and "V" so it's up to chance which letter a language called it before it stuck.
IIRC from high school, they taught us “V” was “Vega” and “W” was “doble Vega”. Looking at Wikipedia, I may be remembering that wrong. They have “ve” and “doble ve”
(Ps I also have these thoughts about breaking words down (unicorn is uni-corn) and some people get really snarky about it. Don't let bad comments get to you.)
Shhh! Nobody tell them about "inside out."
Don't tell them about insid-- dang! Too late
Why isn’t it outside in?
It could be to do with something called “ablaut reduplication”. Very basically English has a - kind of - untaught sound order that native speakers inherently apply to the language. Wikipedia will have an article to explain it better. Specifically the vowel order I-A-O. A great example is the phrase “Bish bash bosh” which is getting coverage recently. (One notable exception is “shit, shower, shave” but that is probably down to the chronology of the actions.)
Spot on insight :)
Kif! We have a conundrum!
How else would one interpret it?
It's not really that I interpret it in another way, but I never really thought about the structure of the word 😅
Go further. For example, people say 'gypped' without knowing it's a pejorative reference to the word 'Gypsy' which is itself a pejorative of the Romani.
My favorite recently is sophist from the pejorative Platonic definition. It really puts words like sophisticated in a different etymological light and subtle contextual meaning.
What's sophist mean?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist_(dialogue)
Fake but convincing by argument, gaslighting, etc., generally by someone in a position like a professor, a judge, or a politician.
I remember learning this about 20ish years ago and telling my then-sister in law about it when I explained why I wasn't going to use it anymore. I got told I had a stick up my ass, and this was by a marginalized (gay, immigrant) woman. (Somewhat unrelated note - very grateful she's a former relation.)
So glad people have been learning and I've been hearing "gypped" less and less in recent years.
Some words have simply entered common use and become decoupled from their former meaning. Maybe your acquaintance was right.
Watching my own language means my "acquaintance" was right? I don't think I'm the one with a stick, if that's the case.
Seems like Orwell was right
And the Egyptians, too!
I’ve had similar realizations about words like “across” and “again”.
I get "across", but what about again?
A gain. In addition to.
“A gain” as in one more. Gain meaning “an increase in amount”
Yeah, actually I had never thought about the structure of the word either. Thanks for the great shower thought!
Ha same
I've definitely had a similar feeling with band names and brand names, etc. You're just so used to hearing them that they are their own thing without being the component words that the name contains.
I think the pronunciation, specifically the blending of the end of "upside" and beginning of "down", turns it into one of those compound words that your brain interprets as an independent word, rather than a combination of its composite parts.
Unused to wonder if the radio announcers that are always reciting the station call letters found that the letters stopped sounding like individual sounds, and the whole recitation became a sort of "word" for them. Like "You're listening to 102.9FM WBLM!" Did it stop being "double-you bee ell emm," and turn into more of a mashup of "dubbleyabeeyelmm"?
True, the difference is pretty subtle, especially to a listener, but I wonder strange things sometimes...
As a fellow wonderer of strange things, all I have to say is keep wondering, my friend :)
I think this is the case for a lot of words. It ceases to be a combination of words and it's just one word. Then in the shower you break it down and ohhh.
Downside up?
Down on the upside
Yes! So glad someone else though of this 😎
Now explain why some people are "down for things" while others are "up for it"
https://youtu.be/bTqU4bKycFo
I never watch linked videos but this one was worth it.
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Why do you park in a driveway and drive in a parkway? What is the deal?
Wait until you find out “bottoms up” isn’t about a group of people taking an elevator to get mimosas
Get your bottom in that elevator and take it up to the bar
Brave of you to post this
Good grief...
TIL that people didn't get this. I had a similar situation where I would pronounce unleaded as unleeded
Oh, I used to do this all the time. You see a word in print, but you never hear anybody say it, so you wind up pronouncing it wrong.
I think the best was when I pronounced "misled" as my-seld because I thought it was the past tense of "misle".
The spelling of some words can be very Ms. Leeding
Wait until you learn the news is new.
In French, it's also the same origin (nouvelles = news; nouvelle/nouveau = new)
Damnit someone just last week told me it was an acronym for notable events weather and sports but this makes more sense
A good rule of thumb is that any word etymology that is an acronym is probably false if the word is more than 100 years old.
Well, yeah. That's.. how words work?
"Right-side up"
Does "right-side up" mean the right side is up or the "right" side is up? English does not make sense
also hi binette
Right = correct
"The correct side is up"
I agree, English is a mess.
Right as in correct.
hi nww :D
Right as incorrect.
Stupid english
Totally. The right hand I use to write with is not my right hand, it's my left (averechts, if you will)
So right side up means its on it's side?
English where feat smell and noses run
Feet, not feat
Artist: English feat. Smell & No$3$
Track: Run
Always funny to see native speakers discover trivial facts about their language
Took me until high school to realize bonjour=bon jour=good day. My brain just about exploded. Worldview destroyed.
Go away with that attitude.
If you haven't noticed there's a lot of negativity on this platform, your comment included. It really needs to change.
Overlooks that was to someone that called someone dense and that I specified "with that attitude". 😬 Just like I called out your comment. This is not a paradox of intolerance.
And a quick look at your profile shows that you are rife with those kind of comments.
🚪🚶♂️
This reminds me of the time I had a co-worker tell me "That's why they call it 'work'. 'Cause you're working!"
I mean it's more that it's "working" because it's "work"
I'm my language it's "bottom up" (ondersteboven).
Also came to a similar realization in my language with "averechts", which means the other way around.
Rechts = right (side, from my pov)
Averechts = ave ( dialect for "your") right side.
You're basically communicating "my right or your right". Asking for right or left can be done by saying rechts or averechts.
Also besides ondersteboven and averechts, we have achterstevoren, which means back side in front.
We say something like "legs up"
"Head's down" team here
Nice one, a bit like right vs stage right
Keine "links?"
Mein deutsch ist sehr schlect, ich hatte zwei jahren fünfzehn jahren zuvor LAL (lachen aus louter).
OP is using Dutch, not German
Scheiße
Tis geen Duits, mijn vriend.
It's not German.
Scheiße lmao
Once you get a handle on inside out you can check out this ok go song
https://youtu.be/LWGJA9i18Co
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The opposite of "upside down" is not "downside up", but "right-side up".
The opposite of "right-side up" is not "left-side down", but "upside down".
Ladies, gentlemen, and all in between. The English language.
The up side is the right side. The down side is the wrong side. Quite logical to me
You've just made it make sense. Have an upvote of my gratitude.
Holy shit does that mean that inside out means the inside is out? 🤯
And then someone tries that again with "Just realized that "downside up" means "the down side is up", making it downside up" to see if it makes anymore sense.
Thank God, another stupid person like me. We are strong in numbers.
In my language it's called double-v, which makes so much more sense to me.
Apparently "W" was originally written as "uu" as early as ~600AD, hence the name, however it still used Latin/Roman letters which hadn't yet distinguished between u and v as letters. For at least 700 years, u and v appear to have been considered the same and interchangeable (so "Double U " could look like "uu" or "vv") but it depends on your language whether it was verbally called a "U" or a "V" until the first recorded distinction between the two in a Gothic era alphabet written in 1386. The two apparently did still see some overlap in use until about the 1700s with the turning point appearing to be when the distinction between their capital forms was accepted by the French Academy in 1726.
tl;dr: "Double U" predates the distinction between "U" and "V" so it's up to chance which letter a language called it before it stuck.
Even moreso if you consider the old Latin alphabet that used V and didn’t have U.
IIRC from high school, they taught us “V” was “Vega” and “W” was “doble Vega”. Looking at Wikipedia, I may be remembering that wrong. They have “ve” and “doble ve”
Heh good insight.
(Ps I also have these thoughts about breaking words down (unicorn is uni-corn) and some people get really snarky about it. Don't let bad comments get to you.)
In-sight
https://kbin.social/m/Etymology could use some more love!
Where's the bot that links this as a community when you need'em.
Glad you finally made it to the party! Meaning we’ve all been having a party that you just made it to.
Wonder if OP thinks "right side up" means the left side is down
umopapisdn
Walking backwards is also called “penis-side butt” in some languages.
You should celebrate with some upside down cake
So that's what it's called...
It's actually one of my faves 😋
This legitimately made me gasp. I feel stupid i didn't realise this.
No, it's the opposite!
Downside up?
And round and round
Oppo-site? Now I'm wondering about everything.
Wait, what is the opposite?
contrary
Breakfast = break fast (as in fasting) :)
Upsigh down? Or upside ouwn?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Obligatory boomer song
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Keep it flippin'
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.