New ASUS router firmware now requires a user to be 16y or older and will restrict features and even security upgrades if you opt out
ASUS rolled out an update to its firmware (3.0.0.6.102_34791) that now requires users to be over the age of 16 and to send a slew of metrics and data back to ASUS. If you do not agree or do not check the box to verify you are 16y or older, you cannot use the router. At this time, I’m not sure if ASUS has meant to disable the router for anyone under 16 or if it’s a bug.
You can opt out at any time but lose access to a slew of features:
Please note that users are required to agree to share their information before using DDNS, Remote Connection (ASUS Router APP, Lyra APP. AiCloud, AiDisk), AiProtection, Traffic analyzer, Apps analyzer, Adaptive QoS, Game Boost and Web history. At any time, users can search the contents of the terms at this page or stop sharing their information with other parties by choosing Withdraw.
Moreover, ASUS disables automatic firmware updates and worse, all security upgrades unless you opt into the data sharing. Security upgrades perform the following:
Security upgrade incorporates security measures that continuously update its security file and scans to protect against malware, malicious scripts, and emerging threats in order to secure the router and ensure system stability. Some upgrades addressing important security issues or meeting legal/regulatory requirements will still be downloaded and installed automatically, even if "Security Upgrade" is turned off.
Edit: I have personally contacted their CEO's office, but if others would like to voice their disapproval as well, here is a link: https://www.asus.com/us/support/article/787/
Is Asus just asking to have a shitload of lawsuits?
It doesn’t seem like they give a shit. This is the company that strong armed NexusGaming with their repairs and have scammed a slew of people thru their warranty system.
If you search for “ASUS repair scam” they have a sorted history of this kind of douchery.
I think the word you're looking for is "sordid".
Sometimes I take spellcheck for granite.
It’s a slippery slope.
Wait, that's not a typo...
Neither are mine. Grammatical mistakes are not typos.
I iz confuzzled now.
My experience was similar, but I gave up after my first RMA because I saw everyone else going through the same thing. The N7 started as such a delight and ended up as one of worst product experiences.
That's brutal that they get away with that crap. I will never buy anything ASUS branded again. They are on my embargo list now, right under Sony, which I haven't purchased a single thing from them for about 18 years since they screwed me out of repairs on my phone. Only way IMO.
And in return Gamers Nexus is teaching all of their viewers what their consumer rights are, and how to report fraudulent activity to the proper regulatory authorities. This isn't the first time Gamers Nexus has gotten regulatory agencies involved with computer part manufacturers fucking over customers, and the history of those incidents didn't go very well for other companies involved.
On the other hand Gamers Nexus has also gone out of their way to point out companies that have done the right thing when issues came up, to make sure those companies are getting kudos for NOT fucking over consumers. Because sadly that's all we really want.
If the FTC gets enough complaints to warrant the manpower to investigate ASUS warranty fraud, there is no doubt in my mind that they're gonna be fucked based on what we've seen so far.
How many 14 year olds can afford a lawyer?
All you need is one lawyer in this case to handle the class action lawsuit that would follow. There is power in numbers.
A class action lawsuit with a related FTC warranty fraud investigation is a pretty tough thing to fight.
No need, they can just lie :)
Yes.
The title could use the word "router" somewhere.
Fr. Had me thinking ASUS Motherboards. Really had me going there😅
They are next 🫠
Like that?
Missed a spot.
Wow thanks I never could have figured that one out myself!
Done 🙏
Give it a minute: Tech Jesus and his Nexus friends are having a great time with ASUS recently. I'm sincerely looking forward to how far they take things.
Who is this "Tech Jesus"?
Stephen Burke, Editor-in-Chief and founder of Gamers Nexus. They do computer hardware reviews, consumer advocacy and sometimes even investigative journalism. Steve has a majestic mane, earning him that nickname.
See https://gamersnexus.net/ and https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/@GamersNexus
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Ah, fair enough.
Hello there
Lol.
The last thing I want is my router sharing information with other parties.
I worry about that more than I should. But yeah, that is the central hub that everything goes thru. I actually don't even want it to ping Asus's update servers because I can't be sure what kind of data is being sent.
I moved to Merlin firmware and hoping that doesn't have any telemetry. Unfortunately OpenWRT doesn't support wifi 6/6E routers and even the rare ones it does support, aren't really the greatest.
I want the asus hardware, just not their shitty software.
The list of supported WiFi 6-capable routers has a good number of entries.
Does vpn help with this?
No.
Nasty. Thanks for the heads up.
NP. I was pretty pissed as they haven’t released a new update in almost a year and when they did, this is all that’s been changed.
Good news is moving to WRT Merlin is a piece of cake and even carries over all your original settings. Hopefully they rip out this crap with their own firmware.
I wanted to swap over to Merlin last year but my router isn't supported. Grrrr!
Same :(
Asus went the bad way. Check out louis rossman vídeos about asus, héroes one of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHQqKi9NcTs It is a company to be avoided. It went the non ethical way.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=NHQqKi9NcTs
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Sadly, you can swap Asus with pretty much any popular company's name and it still holds true.
Gamers nexus mentioned two decent brands (arctic and fractal) in their most recent video about Asus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYdtpU8FKO8 around the 11:11 mark
But yes, sadly most popular companies seem to be garbage nowadays.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=uYdtpU8FKO8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yes... But some more than others
Every other company seems to charge for parental controls. It's so stupid, I don't need another fee just because I have a child in my life.
I wanted to degoogle, so I looked for a new router and ended up with an Asus.
Asus would do good in hiring a real lawyer. Parents accept, kid uses router, data collected of child, illegal. So easy to rip them a new one.
If you own a router from ASUS and find OpenWRT too difficult:
install Asuswrt-Merlin
The data sharing happens on merlin too
It builds on devices' source code published by ASUS. The is no data sharing with ASUS.
Merlin's privacy disclosure:
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/withdraw-privacy-permission-disables-features.90169/
That thread is about the official firmware as distributed by ASUS.
Here are some screenshots from my router administration pages. Notice the "Powered by Asuswrt-Merlin".
In the first image you can see that I have a particular feature disabled.
When I toggle it on I receive a warning that my information will be collected by Trend Micro.
I included another screenshot showing the location where I would withdraw my consent to having my data collected, were I to actually use the advanced features of the router, that I thought I was paying for at the point of sale. Instead I was apparently paying for the privilege of having the option dangled in front of me, behind an agreement for yet another, separate company to collect my family's data.
Because they aren't legally allowed to spy on minors they add this shit to bypass it?
Precisely
Is the train of thought that if the adult approves they can harvest data from minors regardless? It harvests data from anybody using the internet, not just person handling the settings. It doesn't seem legal that the data harvest agreement binds all users in a household rather than the one managing the settings?
Is that legal in Europe? is it legal to suddenly semi brick a device if you dont allow them to data harvest? Is it really considered giving consent freely when the device you paid $$ for suddenly no longer does 90% because you disagree with sudden data harvest practices?
I can understand a feature not working because you disagree on sharing something. E.g: can't tell you which pizza place is near you if you dont share your location.
But this? I hope it's illegal and they get sued into oblivion for this. This is super invasive.
I think it’s literally just legalize to appease law makers with regards to collecting info from a minor. That’s typically a no-no in NA. If you lie and click the box but you’re 15, that’s on you. There isn’t any legal recourse if someone just lies. I’m totally ok not needing to send anyone “proof” of my age for anything on the net (this, porn, NSFW, etc,).
But that's the point. You, the 15 year old, never click or see the box. Your data is harvested because somebody somewhere else agreed to it.
It's like giving any website the right to farm your data because somebody else on the same shared IP clicked accept all.
I'm also totally okay not having to send any identity data over the net. I fully agree there. It's just their standpoint of "let an admin click it and we can farm everybody's data behind that device" seems like a very unstable legal standpoint.
Then again. I'm not a lawyer and the law doesn't work based on how lawful i feel something is or should be.
OpenWRT is better for a lot of reasons. It isn't as user friendly but if you know a little networking you will be fine. The big thing is that automatic updates aren't a thing so make sure you manually update.
OpenWRT is pretty user friendly, in my experience.
It isn't half bad but it does use a lot of terminology and can be overwhelming because it has so many options
That’s why it’s user friendly. Try configuring one of those “user friendly” consumer grade crap routers. Due to the use non-standard descriptions in a misguided effort to be user friendly no one actually has any clue what settings actually do.
Good point but most people don't have a good networking background. That's why some companies ship openWRT with custom skins
Relevant xkcd
I know the target demographic for a privacy community will likely have a good networking background. But “most” is likely an overstatement. I think most people don’t even know what a router does, much less how to configure one.
I made a typo.
So that's why everyone is getting triggered
But with those ‘user friendly’ UI’s no one knows what they’re doing. The user doesn’t know regardless and now the expert they ask for help has no clue either.
I disagree. It automatically sets up location and a password which is a big step. You keep clicking next until you are done
That works great until it doesn’t, and then you’re fucked.
If I bought one of their routers and this came up, I would simply be returning it and giving the person at the counter a printout as to why. Sorry, but this router is not "suitable for purpose". Look up that phrase and "merchantability".
Agree. Straight back for refund. In Australia we can legally choose the manufacturer, or the retailer. I'd go straight to Asus, to give them the message directly.
Trying to refund through Asus will result in them dragging their feet, being as unhelpful as possible, or claiming you damaged the product.
Which will result in federal agencies going straight up their arse.
Many countries outside the US have actual consumer protections
I would hope so, but Asus has been doing things like this for at least 10+ years which makes me doubtful that anything will change soon.
I've been down that road with Samsung. One mention of our consumer laws, with a link to the contact form where I can report them, and refund issued immediately. Australia has good laws. People just need to flex em.
For the downvoters, in the US:
https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/what-is-the-warranty-of-merchantability.html
If you bought the router expecting it to work as advertised, you may make a claim if it doesn't. They would have to spell out ahead of time what the limitations and requirements are in order to avoid trouble.
You have no claim. The update does not disable the router and even if you opt out, the router itself still functions, except with a few additional features missing. Telemetry and data collection does not void a warranty. There is no claim here.
That would be for the legal system to decide. If you purchased it for a specific advertised feature, and that feature was disabled unless unspoken terms were agreed to, you would have a case.
Protecting your network from internet-bound threats is one of the most important jobs of a router, and that involves receiving security updates. Once your router no longer receives security updates, you should stop using it.
That depends on how the product is marketed. If the product has any of those disabled features on the box and doesn’t outright say you need to send them telemetry data to use it, then you could argue that you bought it for that feature and can’t use it.
For instance, maybe I want to use the VPN feature, so I bought a router that supports that. And now I’m locked out of that feature unless I agree to a miles long privacy policy and sharing my telemetry data.
Plus, the lack of security updates is, at best, extremely concerning. The firewall’s primary function is to act as a first line of defense against attacks coming in via WAN. They have locked those security updates behind the telemetry sharing, and therefore it can’t even be used as a proper firewall.
I would rather not have less options in this world and force companies not to be dicks. I guess to each their own. My router is also 2y old so no returns available.
never use stock router firmware
Any other open source alternative you recommend?
Usually it's OpenWRT
There is also FreshTomato if your router has Broadcom wifi chipset like mine does.
Broadcom sucks I would avoid it at all costs.
openwrt or ddwrt
On ASUS routers, the best choices are OpenWRT or Asuswrt-Merlin.
openwrt
You know, I'd 99% of the time agree with you but has anyone else tried out the little (travel?) routers from GL-iNet?
Their default router interface ain't half bad at all, and if you do need to use Luci you can simply do that too
I bought a couple of them for a family member and they haven't poked me once for help with them.
i dont blame you. GL-inet routers have always seemed so cool to me. always wanted to get one.
paired with the blue merle firmware it would be a godlike setup
https://github.com/srlabs/blue-merle
but i think blue merle is not being maintained anymore.. is there any other firmware with similar functionality? like imei rotation, mac randomizer, etc? that you know of, even for similar hardware
Fraid not.
I recall worrying about MAC address tracking one time and using Chainfire's MAC privacy app, but that's a non factor now since they're randomised by default on Android on the most recent versions.
imei rotation would be the best feature
This is sickening.
People should use alternative routers and software such as OpenWRT, DDWRT, and Gl.iNet routers
Yeah. When I bought my ASUS router I was looking into OpenWRT supported routers but they are really hard to come by (at least in NA) and quite dated. Router manufacturers really don't want to have their telemetry removed.
One of those tiny low power PCs with OpenSense is a good alternative, but a bit more work. The only downside is that you need a separate switch and wifi access point.
FYI the open source OpenWRT based Banana Pi R3 AX 4x4 is a thing. Don't buy closed source Routers/APs on purpose.
You can just buy a off the shelf router and flash OpenWRT many devices are supported. If you want to be sure just look it up before you buy.
Okay ASUS is out. Recommendations?
There's a few routes (pun intended) you could go.
DIY with opnsense on an old PC will give you the most flexibility and will allow you to build your router to your exact needs.
Ubiquiti is also another choice albeit a contentious one. Their hardware is pretty good which also doesn't require a recurring charge to use (unfortunately rare when you get into the enterprise grade gear). The software side is where people have such mixed feelings as for consumers and prosumers it's pretty good but when you start getting into enterprise level configurations you'll find their software pretty lacking. For example if you need a L3 switch for inter VLAN routing you'll want to go with a different vendor as ubiquiti's L3 is practically broken.
I went with Mikrotik and it's great, but honestly I cannot endorse them as consumer routers, they are very hard to set up
I love mikrotik especially their switches as they are the only vendor making relatively affordable 100 gigabit gear. I completely agree their software isn't user friendly which I why I didn't endorse them. Plus I don't really have experience with their wireless access points nor have I seen any in the wild.
I have a 5-years-old wAP, and it... Works. Not super fast TBH, and I had to tweak it a bit to get it there, 'cause the default settings were slow. At this point I don't remember what I did tho.
And Ubiquiti's support is non-existent. Don't get me wrong, I like their hardware, and their software works just fine for my needs, especially at their price point. But if you have issues, you're searching forums or are SOL.
Ruckus gear is pretty good too, though I don't have much hands-on experience with it. And it's expensive. Like really expensive.
I've actually never had any problems with their support the two times I had to RMA some dead products but maybe I've been lucky.
They'll RMA just fine, but I was speaking more to software support.
You can also get a Celeron-based (for example with a N100) fanless mini-pc meant for use as DIY routers like these and install something like pfSense on it.
Personally my really old router still does what I need so I'm leaving it be, though I've replaced my media box and my NAS with a similar device running Lubuntu but can't really make it also be the router since it only has 1 ethernet port.
PC with opnsense.
Man, idk. I installed WRT Merlin in hopes this doesn't make it there. OpenWRT is really hard to get onto routers. Even the ones that support it (which tend to be pretty dated) have a ton of hurdles or restrictions as manufacturers really don't want to lose the telemetry.
Asus makes great hardware unfortunately. Some of the fastest and most performant routers out there. Moreover, they don't rely on subscriptions to gate some of the features like pretty much every one else.
I tried TP Link and Netgear (if their "legendary" Nighthawk) and the Asus just blew them away on every level. Especially stability and reliability.
Something with OpenWRT. Turris Omnia is pretty good.
Synology seems ok to me.
Next DEFCON is in two months, can't wait to see them get absolutely pwned.
I remember seeing that Openwrt is working on getting their own hardware sometime in the future. Might be worth looking at when the time comes. I'll stick with merlin until that goes the same way.
Isn't the Banana Pi R64/R3/R4 close enough to that?
I like Linksys for OpenWRT. They are cheaper and the chipset is often the same. They aren't high performance devices by any stretch but they are pretty solid in my experience.
I do wish OpenWRT would partner with a existing company instead of trying to go alone. There are several companies that make hardware specifically for OpenWRT. It would be nice if they would just work to have a "certified by OpenWRT" badge. They could then donate a percentage of the sale to the project.
Probably. But still so shady to give the choice when it doesn't actually work. Feels worse this way TBH.
Unfortunately, lots of ASUS routers (especially the “gamer” oriented ones) use Broadcom chipsets. Broadcom support is severely lacking, (because Broadcom has refused to allow open source drivers) so in many cases switching to openwrt will severely cripple the router. Even basic shit like WiFi will stop working, because there isn’t a WiFi driver available.
Fresh tomato does Broadcom.
Top level comment to remind the Open WRT fanboys that this ASUS router uses a Broadcom chipset, which is not supported on OpenWRT. Been seeing it recommended by a lot of replies to comments when it won't be helpful in this case, since Broadcom chips don't have open drivers
However, freshtomato is another router firmware, that isn't as feature rich or well supported as opwnwrt, but is focused on supporting broadcom chipsets.
https://www.freshtomato.org/
https://wiki.freshtomato.org/doku.php/hardware_compatibility
I flashed it to my netgear router with a broadcom chipset, it works wonderfully!
Yeah I’ve stayed out of those because it’s just felt like a knee jerk without actually even reading anything. “Someone said something critical about a router firmware, quick put OpenWRT on blast!” 😏
Good thing openWRT works on those
The data sharing persists even with merlin. I get a prompt about it as soon as I tried to enable those advanced features. I still get updates though.
That was the case before the update, but they didn’t bar security updates and firmware upgrades or not let you even into the router without consent. I had those disabled but the update makes opting in mandatory.
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/withdraw-privacy-permission-disables-features.90169/
That thread isn't about Merlin firmware?
Here are some screenshots from my router administration pages. Notice the "Powered by Asuswrt-Merlin".
In the first image you can see that I have a particular feature disabled.
When I toggle it on I receive a warning that my information will be collected by Trend Micro.
I included another screenshot showing the location where I would withdraw my consent to having my data collected, were I to actually use the advanced features of the router, that I thought I was paying for at the point of sale. Instead I was apparently paying for the privilege of having the option dangled in front of me, behind an agreement for yet another, separate company to collect my family's data.
Yeah but that's not new, that has existed for years even in Merlin firmware. People were saying that this affects Merlin but I'm not seeing any indication of it yet.
Yes I know ASUS is shitty and evil, and it sucks that those features are gated behind abandoning your privacy, but I was saying that part isn't new, and I don't think this new stuff affects Merlin yet.
We'll see how it all plays out, though.
Sorry about that. I guess I completely missed your point that you were referring to data sharing only via the new "agreement" getting foisted on people. Fingers crossed it doesn't get into Merlin.
Should I need a new motherboard, which vendor would you guys recommend that's not crap (as a company)? Gigabyte? GamersNexus had a few very negative reports on MSI as well.
IMO, ASRock.
Considering that they're probably the only mobo manufacturer that officially supports using consumer AM4 CPUs on a server (see ASRock Rack), and always supported ECC ram on all AM4 motherboards - and that I haven't had anything negative happen with any of their products so far (at work) - I personally would choose ASRock next.
Haven't had the chance to try them for AM5 yet, sadly.
I had an ASRock X570 Taichi once. It had a great feature set, but unfortunately every few cold boots the BIOS would completely forget all settings and reset everything to default. This may have been related to my memory's XMP profile, but the same memory ran just fine with XMP and the exact same CPU on a much older ASUS X370 Crosshair VI Hero. So I eventually switched to the ASUS ROG Strix B550-E, which was/is a very good board I would say. So naturally, I went with the ASUS ROG Strix B650E-E when I switched to AM5, and while the board is generally stable, the Intel NIC has issues the way ASUS configured it (see my reply to the other commenter).
Yeah gigabyte is solid. I was quite happy with the Aorus line up. I have never bought MSI because I’ve always felt them to be cheap and dodgy. So not surprised NG was having issues with them.
The GIGABYTE B650E AORUS Master looks quite interesting with its 4 PCIe 5.0 x4 NVMe slots. I eventually settled for the ASUS ROG Strix B650E-E though when I got my Ryzen 7000 CPU at the beginning of last year, but if I got to choose again it wouldn't be an ASUS board.
The mainboard I have is mostly fine (great even, in terms of general stability), but ASUS fucked up their version of the firmware or power management of the Intel 2.5 GbE adapter so it can just completely die after a few hours under Linux, and sometimes get the connection speed wrong under Windows. A workaround under Linux is to disable PCIe power management entirely in the Linux kernel parameters (
pcie_aspm.policy=performance pcie_port_pm=off), but that's hardly ideal. I don't see myself spending hundreds of dollars on a new mainboard just because of this issue though. ASUS fails to even acknowledge the issue.I hate gigabyte with a passion. The 980Ti Gaming G1 has explosion issues (literally) including mine and some other people. They didn't step up. Then there's the PSU debacle. There was an r/fuckgigabyte for a reason. I think just AsRock is left?
Fantastic. Time to deliver opnsense and/or pfsense to the masses. Or better, recycle a router with openwrt or similar
All you need is Protectli with OPNsense and cheap TP-Link in AP mode.
I just write letters to the websites I interact with. I get a good deal on stamps.
I don't think that would have enough RAM
I guess I'm not updating my routers anymore then. Sucks though. It seemed to be the only Asus product that wasn't garbage.
Look into OpenWRT. It is more complex to setup but it is a Swiss army knife.
Sadly, many ASUS routers use Broadcom chipsets, which has major compatibility issues with openwrt. Notably, Broadcom has refused to allow open source drivers, and OpenWRT only uses open source. So installing any kind of OpenWRT on a Broadcom router will effectively cripple it, because even basic functions like WiFi will be unavailable due to the lack of drivers.
That sucks too because you miss out security fixes. I would rather run a secure and up to date firmware that leaks data to ASUS than one with known security exploits. If those were my only options.
I'd rather update it as well. But the routers are behind my ISP router and aren't externally accessible. The attack surface is smaller in that regard. I'm not happy with the thought of an unpatched router. Maybe I can hold out long enough for merlin to support my routers.
I dont think the latest few updates I did mentioned any security updates. Only bugfixes.
I'll tackle the problem when it presents itself I guess.
I'm sure asuswrt-merlin won't have this nonsense.
Routers aren't supported by merlin unfortunately :(
Do you mean modems?
I mean my Asus router models aren't supported by merlin. Only 1 of them functions as an actual router.
Gotta be a bug. Why block kids under 16 when you're legally allowed to use the internet without consent at 13? (At least in the US.)
Because nobody has ever lied on one of these lol. Still criminally stupid of ASUS though.
They don't care if you're under 16. They have to ask if they want to collect and sell your data. This is a big red sign that says "WE'RE WATCHING EVERYTHING THAT GOES THROUGH YOUR NETWORK AND SELLING IT TO WHOEVER WILL PAY US!"
Yeah I don’t get why so many focus on “well, just lie and say you’re under 16.” Literally nothing to do with the state of affairs.
This isn’t pornhub buddy. This is a setting on a purchased product. Also, lying has nothing to do with collecting telemetry or forcing customers into it. You may want to realign your priorities.
I mean if you're using their servers for all of that cloud management can you really expect them not to take a look? You can buy a router and install open source firmware that doesn't scrub your data or keep giving money to giant corporations that put profits over customers.