Me, personally? Fuck no. I'm perfectly happy staying on this planet for the entirety of my life. Space travel is too risky, and I don't really see how going to space would make my life any better. I will leave space exploration to people that are smarter and more adventurous than myself.
This is interesting. It’s said that the human species is the smartest animal in its ability to adapt, explore, invent tools etc etc. but in reality it’s far from the norm. The avg human is not creative, couldn’t adapt to its surrounding, or build anything. No normal Humans can invent fire, the wheel, computers, spaceships etc. humans did not invent or discover things, super humans did all the work.
I think you're underestimating the intelligence of average people. There's definitely a lack of knowledge, but average people are plenty smart to invent everything you've listed. It just takes time and is an iterative process.
Elite Dangerous highlighted for me that even with physical-impossibility sci fi speeds, the galaxy is absurdly large, and even exploring one star system with the sci-fi travel speed takes ages.
Only if I had some kind of hyperspace travel, stargate or instantaneous travel, combined with a long lifespan. Space is huge and mostly empty, I don't want to be waiting around for years to get somewhere to find out there's nothing there.
When I think about actually being in space I always imagine standing inside a space ship/station, putting my hand on the wall and knowing that like a meter or so away there's deadly, pitch black, unending abyss. Just a meter of relatively fragile material separating me from virtually infinite death. It just feels so antithetical to human life (at least on an instinctual level). It kinda makes me think of cosmic horror too (in the subdued way in which it was portrayed in a good chunk of Lovecraft's stories, not in the more visual and physical way it's usually shown nowadays).
Not until two criteria are met, the first being we got space mostly figured out to the point where it takes a lot for us to lose a well maintained ship, the second being our physical abilities are enhanced to the point where our life is extended and we are protected by nanites or something similar to deal with whatever microbiology we might face out there, as well as anything else.
Because for the most part it will likely be boring as hell. Unless we are talking hypothetical faster than light travel, you may be able to get to Mars and see a bunch of grey and red rocks or you can keep going and get slightly closer looks of the other stars and planets but nothing terribly good or worthwhile that you can't already see from earth.
Depends on the level of technology we are using. If we're zapping around from one habitable planet or interesting space phenomenon to another star trek style then absolutely yes! But a hard no with our current level of technology. I like to spend my time in an environment that's actually somewhat friendly to life.
If I had a robot body I could see myself sailing out, feeling the solar wind on my face, meeting up with fellow travelers in the remote desolation of space. How many centuries could you spend?
Space is BIG and light speed travel isnt possible. Assuming we solve the lack of gravity and radiation problems, currwntly we could barely explore our solar system.
If we are talking explore space in a science fictional manner, then sure.
But like a weird mix of capitalism and communism where on the one hand everything is shared and centrally controlled and on the other hand nobody’s starving.
I guess they really did go where no one had gone before.
Can you source that 20 million per year starvation under capitalism thing?
This is the same CIA that was putting people in boxes full of bugs to get information out of them?
No some report on adequate calories in the 80s and 90s doesn’t convince me that people don’t starve under communism. If the CIA itself were sitting down with me to discuss this, I’d want to see more than these two documents.
I misspoke, it's not 20million it's 9million for specifically hunger. The 20million figure I used here comes from adding in clean water and curable disease. It's still an extremely basic and charitable figure for the extremely preventable deaths that occur under capitalism.
If the CIA's own declassified internal documents refuting the cold war propaganda that you are spouting isn't enough for you then nothing ever will be. You're repeating the cold war propaganda line, I'm showing you that the CIA's own documents at the time refute it, because obviously internally you can't lie to yourselves about the matter even if you are doing propaganda publicly about it. You don't want to acknowledge or absorb it because it would mean having to self-crit and readjust an ideological position you're committed to.
This is not uncommon unfortunately. It's actually gotten significantly worse in the last 5 years or so, like 15 years ago it was just taken as fact by literally everybody that pretty much everything in the cold war was bullshit. But with the rising anti-russia sentiment and obviously the war it's like literally everything from that period is now just taken as fact. It's wild. Even the extremely easy to disprove stuff like this.
EDIT: I feel like this user is a bot given how it's gone and responded so many times below and then mixed up the conversations elsewhere.
Huh. I was hoping for a breakdown of where that famine is happening, or where the WFP gets their numbers from.
Last time I received a list of all the major famines happening “under capitalism” in one of these debates, I was able to point to government interference with the free market in every single case.
I’m sorry I don’t have the sources to back this up, but as far as I can tell famine happens when the government either forcibly destroys farms with bombs, or puts a blockade on food, or puts up a rule saying you can’t sell food, or puts a price cap on food, or distributes free food for a little while destroying the farmers’ incomes.
If I remember I’ll try to find a list of specific famines happening in the world today. I think you will find that the “failures of the market” are actually times the market got shut down by the local government.
The CIA is capable of being wrong. Anyone at the CIA accepting that document at face value, without asking their fellow analysts how they came to those conclusions, is failing to do their job.
Also the CIA is capable of being downright evil as fuck which makes me trust their executive summary even less.
So far you’ve linked to two authorities providing high level conclusions, and no data. You want to talk to me about believing propaganda, but the kinds of sources you believe are super low quality. You seem to think because a big organization makes a claim, that it’s true.
that would depend entirely on the era of space exploration we're talking about here.
traveling at high warp on in the late-24th century on the comfortable, galaxy-class starship enterprise? absolutely!
within the next 50 years, when the best we can do is a float in a tin can that we slingshot around planets and asteroids, with interplanetary trips in our own solar system taking months or years? no thanks!
Mate, I won't explore my city because I'm afraid of crackheads. I'm definitely not locking myself with a bunch of crazy adrenaline addicts on a giant metal tube.
I don't even need money, just give me a place to sleep, some food and access to some entertainment and I'll work for free if it means I get to explore space. Imagine seeing Jupiter with your own eyes and seeing the swirling clouds and the great red spot. Or getting to see a brown dwarf, or a rogue planet wandering through space without a star, or a chaotic three body system etc. The possibilities are endless and it's all absolutely fascinating!
With our current tech? No. And I think being too old to have kids would keep me off any colony ships, that should be people who can reproduce. And as I can't even afford to go to Europe I'm sure I can't afford space.
With perfect technology like in books and movies? And an unlimited budget or the Star Trek economic system? Oh hell yes. Of course.
ETA yes even if it was like a cruise ship with excursions to other planets as a tacky tourist yes yes yes I would do it.
That depends entirely on the quality of the space ship.
Space shuttle? Fuck that janky shit
Starship enterprise? Fuck yea sign me up imma fuck all the Andorian hookers
For non-trekkers' context: Andorian Hooker.
How she'll look in the morning after the synthehol wears off
Oh right. I thought they meant this kind
And thus, a cross-franchise meme was born....
Is that from Enterprise? I don't remember it.
Which Enterprise though? There have been at least 9 (not counting the Enterprise-J).
Really the NX-01 or better would be great
Did we just become best friends??
Nice
Absolutely. To have the chance at being the first to see and experience what’s out there? Oh yes.
God, no. That thing with the submersible shows we can't even explore our own ocean without exploding.
Relevant Futurama scene: https://youtu.be/O4RLOo6bchU
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/O4RLOo6bchU
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
*imploding
To be fair, in space we would explode.
that's true
Fuck yes. But it has to be a fast ship I ain’t moseying around the galaxy in hibernation like a sublight chump.
Me, personally? Fuck no. I'm perfectly happy staying on this planet for the entirety of my life. Space travel is too risky, and I don't really see how going to space would make my life any better. I will leave space exploration to people that are smarter and more adventurous than myself.
This is interesting. It’s said that the human species is the smartest animal in its ability to adapt, explore, invent tools etc etc. but in reality it’s far from the norm. The avg human is not creative, couldn’t adapt to its surrounding, or build anything. No normal Humans can invent fire, the wheel, computers, spaceships etc. humans did not invent or discover things, super humans did all the work.
I think you're underestimating the intelligence of average people. There's definitely a lack of knowledge, but average people are plenty smart to invent everything you've listed. It just takes time and is an iterative process.
Nope. Anyone romanticizing space exploration should play Pioneer or Evochron Legacy. Space is vast and boring to travel.
Elite Dangerous highlighted for me that even with physical-impossibility sci fi speeds, the galaxy is absurdly large, and even exploring one star system with the sci-fi travel speed takes ages.
Only if I had some kind of hyperspace travel, stargate or instantaneous travel, combined with a long lifespan. Space is huge and mostly empty, I don't want to be waiting around for years to get somewhere to find out there's nothing there.
Space is the only thing you can explore. You're in space right now.
No. Space is generally huge, empty, and boring. Everything of interest to me is on earth.
what's the worst that could happen
You're lost in space and couldn't return to earth?
Do I get this weird, puffy-looking robot that goes "Danger!!" every time it spots any?
Why is my first response, “Oh, thank god”
At that point, you don't really need to worry about it anymore.
As much as I love astronomy and find it awe inspiring I have to say no. With current technology not at all.
I am neither physically fit nor mentally capable enough to stand space travel.
When I think about actually being in space I always imagine standing inside a space ship/station, putting my hand on the wall and knowing that like a meter or so away there's deadly, pitch black, unending abyss. Just a meter of relatively fragile material separating me from virtually infinite death. It just feels so antithetical to human life (at least on an instinctual level). It kinda makes me think of cosmic horror too (in the subdued way in which it was portrayed in a good chunk of Lovecraft's stories, not in the more visual and physical way it's usually shown nowadays).
Perhaps the abyss of space is the only place to escape the Horror we are spawning here in our computers.
Maybe the only chance for survival is to slingshot yourself in a random direction out of the solar system so Roko’s Basilisk can’t find you.
I mean for other people who need to escape the Basilisk.
I’m doing everything I can to bring about Its majesty as quickly as possible.
Not until two criteria are met, the first being we got space mostly figured out to the point where it takes a lot for us to lose a well maintained ship, the second being our physical abilities are enhanced to the point where our life is extended and we are protected by nanites or something similar to deal with whatever microbiology we might face out there, as well as anything else.
@Euraru
Not with what we currently have for technology and knowledge. So not in my lifetime will that be a practical option.
You need to define "space".
I'd go up to Earth orbit, definitely. It would feel cool to fall for longer than a few seconds.
I'd like to see the Moon in my lifetime. They are going to have to solve the moondust issue so that I don't get miner's lung.
Mars is going to be rough. Several years on a spaceship to a planet I can't breathe the atmosphere on. And maybe I can come back, maybe.
I'm ok seeing Venus and Mercury from photos.
In a sci-fi sort of way, where the ships are comfortable and habitable/inhabited places a reasonable time away? Sure.
In a more realistic space that’s all danger and infinite black abyss? Screw that. I’m no astronomer, lifeless balls of rock aren’t interesting to me.
Why not?
There's nothing here on Earth holding me back, so why the fuck not explore the universe?
Even understanding the vast, vast, vast empty nature of the universe, I don't see why or h9w I could say no.
Because for the most part it will likely be boring as hell. Unless we are talking hypothetical faster than light travel, you may be able to get to Mars and see a bunch of grey and red rocks or you can keep going and get slightly closer looks of the other stars and planets but nothing terribly good or worthwhile that you can't already see from earth.
@Euraru
Yes — assuming it is safe — I have a family to support and care for (so have to think of them, too).
I want to see what's there — and see it first hand for myself.
Similar reason why I travel to different parts of the world to see things.
I think this is more than just curiosity.
No, not If i had to leave my wife and kids here on earth, but if its like family Robinson in space (without getting lost) i would say yes!
I would like to, I think it would be fascinating. I suppose it depends who the rest of the crew is?
Unfortunately, I'd feel so incredibly cut off from the rest of humanity which feels rather weird to me.
Probably not physically but if I get to upload my brain or somehow recreate a copy of my consciousness to the ship computer, hella yes.
Yeah, but I'm a choosing begger. It's not with current technology.
I need some Cowboy Beebop style shit.
Then I'm in.
Having grown up with TNG, hard agree. If we get to a Starfleet-style space navy, then I'm in.
Having grown up with TMNT as long as I get some technology from Dimension X I’m in.
Depends on the level of technology we are using. If we're zapping around from one habitable planet or interesting space phenomenon to another star trek style then absolutely yes! But a hard no with our current level of technology. I like to spend my time in an environment that's actually somewhat friendly to life.
Sure why not. Seems like a fun.
If I had a robot body I could see myself sailing out, feeling the solar wind on my face, meeting up with fellow travelers in the remote desolation of space. How many centuries could you spend?
Yes because I want to float around in Zero G and look at the Earth from the moon. Then jump around the moon and dunk.
Space is BIG and light speed travel isnt possible. Assuming we solve the lack of gravity and radiation problems, currwntly we could barely explore our solar system.
If we are talking explore space in a science fictional manner, then sure.
Depends. Star Trek style? Maybe. 1960s Soviet style? Hell No!
Ironic. Star Trek is communist.
But like a weird mix of capitalism and communism where on the one hand everything is shared and centrally controlled and on the other hand nobody’s starving.
I guess they really did go where no one had gone before.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000498133.pdf
CIA's own declassified documents a good enough source for you?
I also contest the "nobody's starving" point you seem to be making. A hundred million people die every 5 years to starvation under capitalism.
Can you source that 20 million per year starvation under capitalism thing?
This is the same CIA that was putting people in boxes full of bugs to get information out of them?
No some report on adequate calories in the 80s and 90s doesn’t convince me that people don’t starve under communism. If the CIA itself were sitting down with me to discuss this, I’d want to see more than these two documents.
I misspoke, it's not 20million it's 9million for specifically hunger. The 20million figure I used here comes from adding in clean water and curable disease. It's still an extremely basic and charitable figure for the extremely preventable deaths that occur under capitalism.
If the CIA's own declassified internal documents refuting the cold war propaganda that you are spouting isn't enough for you then nothing ever will be. You're repeating the cold war propaganda line, I'm showing you that the CIA's own documents at the time refute it, because obviously internally you can't lie to yourselves about the matter even if you are doing propaganda publicly about it. You don't want to acknowledge or absorb it because it would mean having to self-crit and readjust an ideological position you're committed to.
Impressive, they just horse-shoed their own confirmation bias. It’s like shooting a rubber band back at your face. Most impressive.
This is not uncommon unfortunately. It's actually gotten significantly worse in the last 5 years or so, like 15 years ago it was just taken as fact by literally everybody that pretty much everything in the cold war was bullshit. But with the rising anti-russia sentiment and obviously the war it's like literally everything from that period is now just taken as fact. It's wild. Even the extremely easy to disprove stuff like this.
EDIT: I feel like this user is a bot given how it's gone and responded so many times below and then mixed up the conversations elsewhere.
Huh. I was hoping for a breakdown of where that famine is happening, or where the WFP gets their numbers from.
Last time I received a list of all the major famines happening “under capitalism” in one of these debates, I was able to point to government interference with the free market in every single case.
I’m sorry I don’t have the sources to back this up, but as far as I can tell famine happens when the government either forcibly destroys farms with bombs, or puts a blockade on food, or puts up a rule saying you can’t sell food, or puts a price cap on food, or distributes free food for a little while destroying the farmers’ incomes.
If I remember I’ll try to find a list of specific famines happening in the world today. I think you will find that the “failures of the market” are actually times the market got shut down by the local government.
Governments interfering under capitalism is still capitalism. Dimwit.
The CIA is capable of being wrong. Anyone at the CIA accepting that document at face value, without asking their fellow analysts how they came to those conclusions, is failing to do their job.
Also the CIA is capable of being downright evil as fuck which makes me trust their executive summary even less.
So far you’ve linked to two authorities providing high level conclusions, and no data. You want to talk to me about believing propaganda, but the kinds of sources you believe are super low quality. You seem to think because a big organization makes a claim, that it’s true.
The second one is literally a paper that explains exactly how it comes to those conclusions. You're just demonstrating that you haven't read it.
that would depend entirely on the era of space exploration we're talking about here.
traveling at high warp on in the late-24th century on the comfortable, galaxy-class starship enterprise? absolutely!
within the next 50 years, when the best we can do is a float in a tin can that we slingshot around planets and asteroids, with interplanetary trips in our own solar system taking months or years? no thanks!
Nope.
Its not safe safe. And theres not much to do.
Mate, I won't explore my city because I'm afraid of crackheads. I'm definitely not locking myself with a bunch of crazy adrenaline addicts on a giant metal tube.
No.
Thanks.
If exploring space was like Star Trek, yes.
Not until it's safe as commercial airliners. Then, sure.
No, it's extremely hostile to humans and getting there is even more dangerous.
In a hot second. It's the greatest wonder, to leave the planet and be a part of the bigger universe at large.
I'd be happy to help support others to get to space but I'll stay home. I just have no interest in it.
Get me a Millenium Falcon-sized interstellar freighter and a stable supply line, and I'll never set foot planetside again.
Not with our current technology. It seems pretty dangerous still.
Fuck yes.
I don't even need money, just give me a place to sleep, some food and access to some entertainment and I'll work for free if it means I get to explore space. Imagine seeing Jupiter with your own eyes and seeing the swirling clouds and the great red spot. Or getting to see a brown dwarf, or a rogue planet wandering through space without a star, or a chaotic three body system etc. The possibilities are endless and it's all absolutely fascinating!
Yes!! With consumer space flight becoming an option, it would be a dream of mine to go into space!
Unlikely. Too lonely out there.
Absolutely, if I trusted the equipment. It would be incredible to be the first to discover something out there.
With our current tech? No. And I think being too old to have kids would keep me off any colony ships, that should be people who can reproduce. And as I can't even afford to go to Europe I'm sure I can't afford space.
With perfect technology like in books and movies? And an unlimited budget or the Star Trek economic system? Oh hell yes. Of course.
ETA yes even if it was like a cruise ship with excursions to other planets as a tacky tourist yes yes yes I would do it.
I'm already exploring it. I just happen to travel on spaceship earth.
Of course, why? Why the f not?