I just want to talk at the fellas here. Man to man.
If you do this shit, the women will leave and not come back. I know the incels are going to think that's typical female behavior, and I'm here to say, no, it's not. It's typical for someone, of any gender, to want to exit a situation where they feel vulnerable, and that's what is happening.
Think of it like this: you end up in prison, and your naked, alone, you have no allies or friends, while taking a shower with about 100 other dudes, and Bubba comes over with a grin saying "you're awful pretty". How would you feel? I'm guessing you would want to nope the hell out of there and never take a shower with Bubba in the room, ever again. And that's natural. You were in danger, you want to avoid that danger. While the circumstances might be different for the women you're interacting with, that raw emotion, the exact same one you would have felt with Bubba talking about how pretty you are, the feeling that gave you, it's exactly the same.
Now think, after Bubba made such a statement, what could Bubba do to win your trust to shower next to them again at all? Probably not much. Same deal fellas. There's little to nothing you can do or say to make them feel comfortable being around you when you've done something that inspires that unsafe feeling of danger.
Now, how could Bubba avoid the situation of you feeling like you're in danger and wanting to get out of there. A reassurance? Like Bubba instead saying "don't worry, I'll protect you".... You're going to wonder "from what?" Because until Bubba spoke up, you had no feeling of danger. How does that make you feel? Well, I would feel like there's danger that Bubba knows about that I don't, so now I'm on edge, looking for what Bubba is talking about, and all of a sudden, I'm having the same feeling of danger, just this time from an unknown assailant. That's not good either. I'd still want to gtfo and not go back. Worse now since I don't know what the danger actually is. Not only would I not want to shower with Bubba nearby like in the previous scenario, but now I don't want to be left alone with anyone.
Same deal fellas. By trying to reassure the lady, you imply that there's danger indirectly; she gets creeped out and leaves to not come back.
So, what's the right thing to do here?
It's easier than you think. Treat them like you would any of your male friends. Treat them like a person. You don't need to reassure your male friends that you'll protect them, nor do you feel the need to defend them when their "honor" is challenged. Let them handle it, but have their back if they need you.... and only if they need you.
Be a friend first, and if something happens that makes your relationship with that person, more than just friends, so much the better. Don't expect it, women aren't slot machines, where you put in enough tokens of niceness and eventually you win the sex jackpot. It doesn't work that way. It never has, and it never will. You can't force someone to like you, and if you try, you'll either take any attraction that they might have had for you, and destroy it, and/or simply cause them to feel unsafe and creeped out, and they'll find a way to exit and never return.
People, regardless of gender, just want to do things they enjoy. If you also enjoy those things, then engage in the enjoyment of those things with the other people who enjoy them. Don't make it about gender. If, beyond that, you both like eachother, you'll find a way to spend more time together and that's when things can grow to more than just being friendly, as long as you're both agreeable to it.
If you continually obsess over the fact that their anatomy is different, you'll end up filling whatever negative ideas you have about the other gender, and push yourself so deep into a hole of confirmation bias that you may never recover. Just be people. Treat others the same, as people.
I believe in you. You can do better. Always improving.
You will fall, you will be rejected, you will have set backs. And that's all normal. It's a part of learning.
You got this.
Treat them like you would any of your male friends.
Don't do this. Understand that you wouldn't do this with any random guy either. As with any new acquaintances everyone is cautious in the beginning and women more so. Whether you find the new girl appealing or not all you have to do is cautiously get to know her through your interactions with her, like any other relations you may build with initial strangers and get used to their presence and predilections.
Thank you for this. You are eloquently and (hopefully) non-threateningly (is that even a word?) stating a message that really, really needs to be said again and again until everyone friggin' gets it.
IMO, A nontrivial amount of blame goes to the fathers of such people.
This shouldn't imply that those who need to hear this are exempt from blame; they should have simply been educated by their parents on simple social etiquette....
Of course, I'm also certain that a nontrivial number of those father's actively encouraged such misbehavior.
Trust is at its most basic a finite resource. Whenever a person messes up they recover by giving some of that trust away. Eventually that trust runs out. In rare cases you can regain some of it. However, in the vast majority of situations you'll never get back all that trust lost.
Think of it like this: you end up in prison, and your naked, alone, you have no allies or friends, while taking a shower with about 100 other dudes, and Bubba comes over with a grin saying “you’re awful pretty”. How would you feel?
I can summarize: It's an appeal to reason written from the perspective of a nice, caring, socially aware man called Bubba, who doesn't understand why women run from him when he approaches them in the shower.
It can often be how you go about it. If you just dive in and start talking to them, even if well intentioned and you literally do just want to talk to someone new about whatever, because of all those past experiences of guys only trying to do that to get with them, they'll see you as probably just another one of those creepos.
It's a dance, and it's an annoying one at times for sure, and it takes practice. If you can recall the last time you tried to strike up a conversation, or next time it happens, afterwards, really stop and think about it from the other person's perspective. If you know a woman you trust, try asking her to go over the whole interaction with you.
In college I was a major incel neckbeard loser and truly was the epitome of the green text above. I'm not proud of it. I took a chance and asked a few women I knew why I kept being single and lonely and if they could advise. They did exactly that for me. Took me through some of my interactions, explained where I went wrong, and helped me reframe my thoughts. I now am pretty much always able to strike up a conversation wherever I'm at.
TL:DR - find someone you trust to walk you through the why. You got this
I see, maybe that was it, even tho I did not have intention to get accustomed to.
Btw idk why I am downvoted that much, do people think I am lying? Huh. I thought it was possible to be interested in becoming friends, even tho it is towards women..
Also, people do not know of those who avoid just based on looks?
Sure there's people out there who will avoid you based on looks but usually though it's something else. If you're confident, kind, and properly socializing, then looks often don't matter.
The thing about looks that matter is how you present yourself. Keep up the hygiene, keep your clothes cleaned, and just present your best self as a person.
I say this as a fat dude who hasn't bought new clothes in 10+ years and even then bought what I liked not what was in style. I still do just fine. For us men, our look is in our attitude.
You seem like you really want to find the answer to getting out there but you're getting in your own head. Just let it slide, go have fun, don't focus on other people, don't worry about past slip ups once you've learned from them, maybe find a mentor. You do that, and the rest will happen. It just takes time and patience.
I'm a nice guy: I give some small, cute dude a compliment and he acts like a total bitch about it? I'm the "creep" because I jokingly asked him if he wants to come back to my cell? Oh, my comments make him uncomfortable? Give me a fuckin' break.
Maybe if he doesn't want guys checking him out he should stop acting and dressing like such a slut.
This is why all of my gaming groups just start with an orgy and get that out of the way right off the bat. Everyone gets everything. Sex communism solves all. (Major /s if not obvious)
I would recommend learning how to play roll20 (free to play virtual table top) and finding a westmarches Discord server. I moved to an area where I have zero friends and got into playing dnd that way. It's pretty fun, flexible scheduling, out of game roleplaying whenever. I'm a 38 y/o cis male so I can't say there will be no issues, cus I never really experienced them at all. I'd totally imagine you'd have a different, and hopefully better, experience than irl games. Feel free to DM if you'd like more info.
I second this. There are some really great Discord communities to play on that I'm part of. Generally, it's much easier to keep the creeps out by just banning them. It doesn't have to be a Westmarches server, but any TTRPG server with an actual community that runs game on the server itself, instead of just another LFG fishing pond.
I know when you are pretending to look at your phone as an excuse to stare at my tits. Stop.
While this may be true, I brought a laptop on a game yesterday and I'm not sure the girl on the opposite side of the table didn't think something like that when my eyes were on top of the screen. Which was a lot of times, because naturally all the people are above the screen and only the keyboard and the table are below the screen.
So - please consider the fact that if there's a direct line of sight to your tits, and someone has to look in that general direction, they may occasionally from time to time look there. And also that due to, eh, basic uncontrollable instincts they may do that unconsciously a bit more than they need. Like looking at a bunch of pencils and noticing the red ones more than the grey ones.
Also when I talk to girls about my hobbies, they very often apparently perceive this as some nonsense to get romantic. Usually that means that they gradually ignore me more and more and refuse to believe that it's more complex. Though kinda recently (and long ago before that which led to a trauma, but eh) it was me who thought that they are fine with talking about hobbies, while being more romantic was expected, eventually led to being ignored too.
..people secretly stare like that? What?
Tbh, it is unfair that people can get away with that yet I cannot ever have social interactions by me being autistic.
Yeah that's why I'm wondering. Do they point their camera at her tits and look at them through the phone and pretend to type or something? Wouldn't everyone else see the boobs on the camera?
Why not just stare off into space? I already hate looking people in the face so looking at their chest is like second nature to me. Where is anyone else going to look when everyone is ideally facing each other around a DnD table. Up?
I'd be bored of seeing Diana of Ephesus' tits after the third session even if she came in without a shirt lol.
Find a group of mostly older/married people. It might not solve the problem, but it'll delay it enough that you can get a solid playtest of your latest build before things go to shit.
Isn't "women" preferable over both terms? Pretty sure if I used the term "girls" around most women I know they'd find it offensive. But most women I know are between 25 and 50 years old.
Oh, so you only hang out with FEMALES AFTER THEYVE HIT THE WALL AND ARE NO LONGWR VALUABLE AND THEY PROBABLY ARE MANIPULATING YOU WITH THEIR VAGINAS EVEN THOUGH THEIR VAGINAS ARE POINTLESS AFTER 20
(I literally felt gross typing that. Even though the people who genuinely think that way would probably say, like 17, not 20. Yuck.)
I’d say “women” in a professional setting, but among friends I don’t see it as an offensive thing. It’s just an informal or casual thing. I’m a guy, and the group of women often includes my wife. But it’s said in a friendly tone.
I think singular vs plural matters too. I would say “good night girls” to a couple of friends leaving, but not “good night girl” to one friend leaving.
Up until like 7 years ago, the word lacked major misogynistic connotation. It used to be fairly common in certain subsects, including nerds, and it all but died in them. I wonder when “female” will become kosher again. This century is unlikely, given the Tate taint. The evolution of language is fascinating.
My friend, you're 44 and haven't learned the art of not giving a fuck what people think of you? Wear that sick trench coat. Worst case scenario, someone laughs at you, and you brighten their day a bit.
Upvoted and I'm technically in agreement with you, but at the end of the day most of us humans are social creatures and how we fit in is, on some level at least, important to us.
I will say though if dressing like a neckbeard is fundamental to who someone is, they should absolutely go for it. But for me, who thinks fedoras (sans modern context) do indeed look cool, that's not enough to overcome the stigma. It's all about finding our personal balances, I guess.
Yeah I just gave up on that. I'd rather be an unpopular me than a popular someone else. The world should be different and my friends all feel the same way.
fedoras used to be hella cool. trenches, katanas, all that shit.
I dunno if this was ever true, but I think you'll find more success the more you lean in, because the more you lean in, the harder it is to take you seriously. pair your trench coat with cargo shorts. wear a flea market xxl silk anime shirt with goku on it, unbuttoned, behind that, you gotta wear a mario or zelda shirt or something. a thinkgeek style of shirt. wear some crocs with the jibbits in em. maybe wear a cool casio watch, a silver one. get a fanny pack, put this in the belt loop of your trench coat. See if you can get a katana around there too. get some coke bottle glasses, some morpheus glasses that just sit on the bridge of your nose too. get some ankle high socks, get a couple cool bracelets, if you're balding, shave the top, go for a horseshoe shape, grow out your hair, and put it in a ponytail. get your glasses to have a strap.
do all that, and then you'll wrap back around to being cool, and stylin'. you'll be hip with the youths.
I think we just realized how overly clinical and dehumanizing it is and it just became an easy tell that that person probably, whether they realize it or not, doesn't really see women as equally human to men, like women are only the sex characteristics that make them biologically female.
To be clear, im referring to the phenomenon where someone, despite frequently using the word 'men', is seemingly only able to refer to women as 'females'. You almost never see 'males' used in that standalone way outside of clinical contexts. So yeah, blame those people for ruining it, not the rest of us for wising up to it.
I use it to distinguish sex and gender. Only some females have to deal with periods and pregnancy, but all women have to deal with social mysogeny. In this context I would use women because it's a gender issue not a sex issue.
I think it might also be an age thing, if you're in high school/late teenager and talking about your female peers it's a neutral sounding term for when "girls" is too casual and "women" makes them seem too old.
Your best bet is to try and find groups with better ratios of guys to gals. These groups tend to self regulate and give the creeps the boot.
People play fantasy games to live out their fantasies. And for some sad people, their fantasy is to touch women because they act so repulsively no one wants to risk getting close to them.
Yup, and no matter how the DM handles it, it's still a pain in the ass.
My table? That shit don't fly, but it's still going to mean some dude getting butt hurt and needing a firm talking to. Might go years without it happening, but I don't know a DM that hasn't run into it it once or twice with new groups or new players.
One of my long term players is a woman. She was a "girl" when she started with the core group, if you count 16 as a girl still.
She's a great player, and a good friend. The number of times I've had to tell guys to fuck off and not come back is absurd. Shouldn't even be once, though you'd expect teenagers to pull it. No, it was grown ass men. The last one, we were all 40ish in the core group, and the guy that pulled it was older than us. He was an acquaintance from where I used to work, and had always been chill with women. No bullshit, no problems. But he still couldn't get past the idea that she was there and obligated to give him a shot just because they shared a hobby.
My wife plays FPS games and doesn't even speak because the moment she does, half the dudes feel like they need to show off and get her attention, and the other half get sexually frustrated and laser focus on only her.
I only play FPS in VR and the male/female interactions are weirdly wholesome. Literally never seen the behaviours that are sadly the norm in flatscreen gaming. I'm still not sure why this is the case, maybe the reporting system is just better, or it's something to do with feeling more present in VR.
There's no need to speak in online games anyway. I never use a mic or headset to play games like that, I still just use the chat. Voice chat always off.
It is because to the harasser they are killjoys. To the aggrieved they are robbing them of agency to help themselves. However, fuck the harassers, and sometimes people need help and don't know how to ask. I would rather be called a white knight than a creep or someone who did nothing and was thus complicit in the harassment. I'm old and grumpy though and if I'm "helping" it is because I'm sick of the bullshit not because I care if people think I'm a good person; I think that intent matters.
Guy chiming in. I use to go to small, monthly lan parties a lot. Every now and then a woman would show up and 4 or 5 of the average 10 total guys would make weird jokes about there being a female present. I don't think I ever saw the same woman twice.
I'm not sure your point. I used both "woman" and "female" in my comment. I used the term "female" specifically when I did to reinforce the idea that certain people in the group saw the women more as foreign objects than new people.
I don't hang out with those people and if you asked me if I stepped in to do anything about that weirdness, I wouldn't have because it would have been a loss cause. I hang out with better groups now a days.
That's sad. At our LAN there were two women regularly. One lost interest in PC games and the other now comes with her friend. She's pretty good at Chivalry. What a bloodthirsty girl...
It's was weird. Growing up, I took the "girls don't play video games" attitude as self deprecating machismo. Finding out that, no, this was how many people, including many girls my age, though was... disappointing.
My advice is to find a more diverse group. Married and LTR folks are typically less likely to engage in this behavior, especially if their partners are there too. Its tough when you're in your 20s because 20something guys are all trying to throw their 3 pointer despite the odds.
Either that or find an overtly lewd mixed-gender/mixed-sexuality group and embrace it. I played a very racy campaign in Uni that was a lot of fun. Everyone was onboard with what was going on though before it started and we knew it was going to get weird in a fun way. It was a fun way to also explore my own gender/sexuality in a safe no-contact fantasy way.
It's people, there is never any winning. You do your best to find chill people and don't waste your precious limited leisure time with people who make you feel bad.
No one on 4chan believed her because of rule 30 and because "they didn't know that you can play games in the kitchen". I can read the comments without the comments.
You know, it really makes it feel like those comments are particularly useless when, just by having used the website for a long enough time, you can imagine them simply by the scars they have branded onto your thinking goo. It becomes totally redundant at that point, totally useless, even worse than it having contributed nothing but empty space in the first place, it now occupies empty space in the brain. It's like old farts constantly remembering and bantering about ad jingles from their youth, it fills me with dread.
I've got some lemons, let's have a party and scrub the things from your brain that you've seen and leave a nice citrusy scent instead. We can call it a lemon party.
If it's an overwhelmingly male group, just wait. If she's looking for a boyfriend then she'll come on to one of you first. For the men it's a prisoner's dilemma; your chances are really bad.
I'm done with the bars and their drunks, and the apps with the spying, out of school, and don't date coworkers, the advice given to me every time I complain about the fact that there are no other "third places" to meet women romantically 100% of the time is "get a hobby." Well, see above. There is no place, women do not want to be talked to anywhere but the bar or apps which ime have been bad places to find long-term companionship.
Can we do something about this? Can we maybe start "bars" where the focus isn't alcohol but it is socially acceptable to say "hey I think you're cute wanna go get some damn coffee?"
There is no place, women do not want to be talked to anywhere but the bar or apps which ime have been bad places to find long-term companionship.
Come the fuck on. The rules have been the same from the dawn of time.
#1 Be Attractive
#2 Don't be unattractive
You'll hear shit on the internet all the time about how women don't want to be approached, don't want to be hit on, don't want anyone to flirt with them... but it's all bullshit because the person saying it is an INDIVIDUAL. It's right for them but it isn't right for all women. I promise, women date men all the time!
It doesn't matter that they get all the upvotes in the world from all the white knights and other women who are sick of the attention. That's fine. Don't harass women who shut you down and you can freely ignore the loud voices on the internet.
Since forever in western society, Men have to generally try to make the first move - even if it's just asking a woman out for coffee - and based on the response you either move on or keep trying. It's literally that simple. It's also mostly a numbers game... but the be attractive thing is no joke. Don't be an asshole. Don't be a slob. Learn how to cook and do chores and keep your place clean... if you don't have a place, bust your ass until you get to a point where you can get one.
All the tropes where women say they don't date anyone at xyz is bullshit beyond the individual level. If someone finds you attractive and they want to date you they are going to give positive body language and positive answers to the things that would escalate towards that goal if they really want you. If they don't, they just don't want you, try someone else.
If you're getting angry about women not wanting you and it makes your blood boil and you think you deserve something... you are ignoring rule #1 and rule #2, quit being a fucking asshole.
You can't prove that! Until I see evidence this is all conjecture! Hell for all I know all those supposed women who date those men met them in said bars or apps!
Lol kidding. I know, I have even dated a few myself, buuuut I did indeed meet them all in bars (or school.) I sorta was drinking way too much and spending way too much money though, and unfortunately covid happened, inflation went tits up, I couldn't bar then because quarantine and I can't really bar much now because my local grocer has decided all my money is his, besides the whole "drinking like 1 drink instead of 15+" thing, and I've kind of become disillusioned with that whole scene. The girl I was dating at the start of quarantine was even worse than me, like "a bottle of vodka a night" bad, and frankly I'd just like maybe something a little different, and even besides her, the four previous I also met at a bar, and they were also not much better off (though the last one was the worst by a mile the rest were just like "me then" not "me now.")
Don't be an asshole. Don't be a slob. Learn how to cook and do chores and keep your place clean... if you don't have a place, bust your ass until you get to a point where you can get one.
Only when I need to; I'm clean and shower I swear, I'm just a punk, the vest is just well seasoned; own my house (well...the bank does, for now, but whatever).
give positive body language
Oh did I mention I literally have a diagnosed "learning disability" that basically amounts to "this fucking moron misses a lot of social cues?" Lol 'cause that is kinda a thing.
No work because I like my job and don't wish to cause any possible issues with it. Y'know, like if it doesn't work out or whatever, I'd just like to avoid the possibility for awkwardness entirely.
I mean I'm not entirely ruling it out, shipping has fairly high turnover, so maybe we'll hire a single person at some point and we vibe, and maybe she decides not to stick around, and I see if she wants to chill "now that she's leaving and we can't see each other here anymore," but that's a lot of "ifs" lol. I mean at the moment there's just flat out no options at my work unless I want to try and cause a divorce lol.
I used to date at work sometimes back in my restaurant days, but that's just what it is. I have considered picking up a little side waiting gig though just to try and meet someone single, then I can be the one who quits if it gets weird, and pick up some cash for the dates on the way. Working too much OT for that one right now though but I have it in my back pocket.
OH and I'm not angry at women for not wanting to be hit on anywhere, I'm just advocating for the creation (or someone tell me about some if they exist pls) of a place where it is ok. Another poster has stuff like "singles hikes" in their area, that is kinda what I'm looking for. Frankly we just need more "third places" because the old ones are all dead except bars and church, is basically my complaint here.
Though as you say "the complaints are individuals, shoot your shot." Like they said to Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore, I guess I'll just have to "play it where it lies" even if that is on a giant guy's foot, or at the grocery store or a hobby like this post.
The things is, yeah, get a hobby. Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range. Foster a sincere, genuine interest in that hobby and don't treat it like a meat market. Get to know people, and make friends.
Also, while you're at it, get in shape; lift weights, do cardio, watch your macros. Take daily showers, and wear clean clothes every single day. Clean up your space at home, and keep it that way. Work on yourself, and make yourself a person that you would want to date if someone didn't know anything about you or your personality (because "nice" isn't a personality).
There's nothing wrong with dating at work per se, but you need to be very, very careful because it's easy to quickly go from light flirting to "hostile work environment", and I've known more than a few people that didn't understand the difference. If you're a supervisor, you should absolutely not, under any circumstances, date or attempt to date anyone directly below you on the org chart.
Yeah, I have some hobbies. One is D&D. See OOP. Pretty sure she's complaining about me (kidding, which I really wish I didn't have to specify lol but I do.)
I'm not exactly in shape but I'm not exactly out of it either, I'm kinds standing in shape's doorway letting all the AC out. Supposedly dad bods are in however. I don't use macros I use linux (again, jk.) I do take showers nightly which oughta be close enough and jeans don't get dirty enough to change every day, but the rest I do. Alright you got me, I have cat toys and laundry on my floor. I've seen worse though, and from women at that! I already am fairly up my own ass, I think I'm pretty fuckin' neat, the issue is where can I talk to people (just something as simple as "hey I think you're cool, you seeing anyone? Wanna drink some coffee?") other than an app or bar?
There's nothing wrong with dating at work per se, but you need to be very, very careful because it's easy to quickly go from light flirting to "hostile work environment", and I've known more than a few people that didn't understand the difference.
Not a supervisor, but yeah it just seems like a whole can of worms I'd rather leave closed. Back in the restaurant days it was actively encouraged but this place is different. Not "corporate" but still not full of cool degenerates like my old haunts. Oh and the only woman there even near my age is married to a guy who also works there, so they'd have to hire someone or those two would have to divorce (and even then...)
I have thought about picking up a bullshit 1-2 days a week waiting shift literally just to meet women who work there, (not specific like I'm stalking some poor waitress, just "any restaurant," most employ some women lol) but atm I'm working too much OT.
Per my prior comment - "Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range." That is not D&D, my dude. To later points - that's where you need to be to meet people. I'm going to assume that you don't go to church, and you said that you were out of college. That said, taking personal enrichment classes can be a good place to meet people and make friends, like finding classes on pottery throwing, or jewelry making. (Lapidary tends to attract more men though, which is a little odd.) Classes on making stained glass, maybe? Or ballroom dancing.
I’m not exactly in shape but I’m not exactly out of it either [...] Supposedly dad bods are in however.
Yeah, no. Get in shape. I mean the kind of shape where you have a resting heart rate below 60bpm, can run at least a 5k and survive, lifting free weights, etc. In general people that are in good physical condition, and look like it, will have a far easier time dating, because that's your first impression. The 'dad bod' thing isn't about women preferring men that look like X, Y, or Z, but is more a statement that personality and how a man acts is more important than how he looks. HOWEVER, your appearance is going to be the first thing that people see, so you want to start on a high point.
For reference, when I was dating, I was riding my bike about 28 miles/day, 5 days/week, and in the gym about two hours a day.
I do take showers nightly
I would suggest morning rather than nightly. People sweat at night, and you want to start the day as fresh as possible.
I’ve seen worse though, and from women at that!
Irrelevant. You're trying to create a positive impression.
Not a supervisor, but yeah it just seems like a whole can of worms I’d rather leave closed.
It is not something I'd recommend if you work closely with a person.
Honestly, I think that the best bet is going to be trying to make friends through classes that you take for enjoyment, and just trying to be social there. Like, no pressure, not goal-oriented socializing, just trying to meet people and make friends socializing.
Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range." That is not D&D, my dude.
Sees post about woman complaining about her D&D group
"Women don't play D&D!"
Bruh Crit Roll came out, your info is like 10yr out of date, women play TTRPGs now. Nerdy ones mostly but that's cool.
Pottery class is a good idea though, I could get into that shit!
Cool plastic surgery it is lol. Nah ngl I think you're wrong about the whole "you have to look like them steroid using celebs" but who knows.
Unfortunately I can't ride my bike that long as I have a job. I'm 5'6" 130lbs no abs, they can take it or leave it at that point tbh, fuck em if they want to be shallow. I'm not going to completely change who I am and become a gym rat, I don't think it's as serious of an issue as you make it out to be.
Well too bad! Nightly it is, I'd rather sleep on clean sheets than get home greasy and sweaty from a 10hr shift of manual labour and pretend that getting into bed in that state is not disgusting as fuck, and I'm not taking 2 showers a day unless I need to.
Well cats gotta play, the laundry I can indees pick up but if they don't want a dude with cats tbh I'm not the one.
Yeah I don't reccomend it either which is why I say I don't want to do it, logically.
Yeah that pottery class idea sounds like a good one.
Bruh Crit Roll came out, your info is like 10yr out of date, women play TTRPGs now. Nerdy ones mostly but that’s cool.
It's still heavily stacked towards being men. If your end goal is to meet women that you can be friends with, and possibly date, you want to reverse those ratios.
Nah ngl I think you’re wrong about the whole “you have to look like them steroid using celebs” but who knows.
For a first impression? It absolutely helps. That's the whole point of a first impression; they have absolutely nothing to go off but your appearance, so you need to make your appearance look as good as possible. Being bigger than, say, Dwayne Johnson in his prime probably isn't going to help. And the kind of fitness I'm talking about can absolutely be achieved without resorting to illegal drugs or cosmetic surgery.
Unfortunately I can’t ride my bike that long as I have a job.
That was how I got to and from work. Work was 14 miles, one way, in city traffic. I carried work clothes in a large messenger bag and changed when I got to work. (This obvs. doesn't work if you have a job that requires you to carry e.g. tools to and from job sites.)
I’m not going to completely change who I am and become a gym rat, I don’t think it’s as serious of an issue as you make it out to be.
Look, that's on you. But the idea that, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me" didn't work well for Stuart Smalley either. A lot of people think that you shouldn't have to change anything about who you are in order to find or attract a partner, or that people should 'accept me as I am'; I disagree with that. If you aren't finding people that are interested in who you are--and that you are likewise interested in--then the problem isn't with other people, it's within you, and incumbent on you to make the changes in yourself. You want your own psychological needs and desires met, but at the same time, you need to be ready and able to meet the needs and desires of another person. And yes, that means making changes. And those changes can be difficult and uncomfortable to make.
You can argue about which changes are, and are not, reasonable to make, but ultimately, if you aren't willing to make changes, then you can't expect to find what you say you want.
Well cats gotta play,
I have 6 of them (three Sphynx, one Cornish Rex, a Siamese, and a formerly feral Manx, down from an all-time high of 10). I'm aware. But I still pick up their toys, vacuum the floors/carpet/upholstery, clean their boxes, wipe up the food they pull out of their bowls, etc.
I’ve heard of a club in my country where you put on a colored bracelet based on whether or not are you looking for a partner. Seemed like a cool idea but I think it didn’t catch on.
Try searching for "Traffic Light Party" or "Stop Light Party". Bars/clubs don't usually do it as a continual thing now but some still host them as special events. Heck, if you can find a place that has done it in the past you could always just ask them if they've thought about doing another.
I'm a good looking, personable guy, so my experience is certainly biased by that. Also coming from someone from the us.
But I've found you can approach women in most places. The thing is to just not be creepy about it, and learn how to pick up on cues that she is not interested or uncomfortable. And once "no" has been established, still treating them the way you had before.
If, like described in the geentext, you're claiming you own someone, or you're fighting with friends over it when noone is even dating anyone, the problem is not with approaching the woman.
Frankly, same, with the difference that I've been around women both irl and online who complain about it constantly, so since I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable I stopped. Seems to be around the time the apps came out that it stopped being socially acceptable ime, though I'm not sure that's the cause.
with the difference that I’ve been around women both irl and online who complain about it constantly,
You mean you've been around women who felt comfortable complaining about it around you. Which likely means that they don't think of you as a creep, and now you think of yourself as one...
The bad apples won't care they're going to continue to creep, the men you're comfortable with get scared off. Please, for everyone's sake, both genders and everything in-between and laterally, start to actually talk about how the young'uns are supposed to continue the human race because they sure as fuck don't seem to have an idea. A mere 20 years ago we could sit in mixed company laughing and groaning during an impromptu "everyone's best and worst pickup line" contest, that levity among friends. Levity is serious business re-learn it.
A mere 20 years ago we could sit in mixed company laughing and groaning during an impromptu “everyone’s best and worst pickup line” contest, that levity among friends. Levity is serious business re-learn it.
You still can. The discourse is because a large chunk of the male population doesn't understand how to do that without being creeps. Don't be a creep and women will like being around you
How large is the chunk that doesn't dare do it because they think their behaviour would be considered creepy, even though they'd do perfectly fine? Because that was the case I was replying to, not the overall situation.
If gals want to keep up the overall "don't talk to me if I haven't talked to you first" approach, fine, but then y'all gotta start being more proactive with your own pick up skills. And starting pick up line contests yourselves in suitable company, instead of letting decent guys sit there, coming to believe any muscle they move in your presence to be an offence. Thinking they can't show themselves they start to hide themselves, now they can't be read properly any more, their intentions might very well still be pure but because something is hidden well anything could be hidden there, and now you've got an actual creep on your hands.
Tbh some of the complaining was about pretty innocuous stuff, like not pushy or anything (well of course I wasn't there but sometimes the stories just sound like "normal shooting your shot" stuff. And they likely trust me because I haven't tried asking them out, at least in part. If I did I bet that'd change right quick haha.
It is! And it worked great for me and my partner! We both got tired of the apps, and neither of us are big socialites, and felt like speed dating was a long-shot, but after meeting at speed dating, we went on a coffee date (so we could talk for more then the 7 minutes they gave us at speed dating), and everything just felt right! I won't say it was love at first sight, but within the year we'd moved in together, and couldn't be happier with each other. Just search online for speed dating in whatever decent-sized city you're in or near, and you'll probably find something!
At least four years ago (or whenever right before Covid started. I'm so bad with time) my 25 year old cousin in law went to a string of speed dating events. They still exist. Heck. I just duckduckgo'd "my state speed dating" and in about twenty seconds found ten within a 30 minute drive over the next month.
My friends have mostly moved, the ones that are still here we chill when we can but we're all adults with lives and known each other for years, not many new faces usually.
It can be a little bit of a pain making new friends as an adult, but it's totally doable. If you make yourself available you'll find em. I found what works for me (30s dude) is to just ask. A friend complaining about having to go to a cousin's wedding? Just ask if you can join and try to make it fun. Then just start listening to conversations and joining in. Doing that I met one guy who does music production on the side for local bands and because of one comment we got talking about AI (something I've done some small work with) and how I thought it would impact him in the near future. He reached out through a mutual acquaintance to get my number and is planning to now invite me to his wedding next year.
I've got more examples but feel I'm rambling. My friend group had majorly shrunk when I moved two ish years ago and I just went through it. Even adults with kids like friends and can become good ones.
Volunteering maybe. Church is crazy, you want me to join a whole ass religion just to meet a woman and then what, pretend to be christian for the rest of my life?! I'd sooner go back to the drink! Sports I'm not really into, and everyone keeps saying "don't just do it to meet women" but like, that's exactly what I'd be doing. Idk maybe like ping pong or something but idt we have a local ping pong league near me, I'll look. Choirs are very churchy are they not? That'd be the same as either sports or church in either case, depending.
Yes, "where are the people" is essentially my question. Some insist "literally everywhere, just do the thing and let em complain, fuck em" which seems to be the leading suggestion. Another dude said his area has singles hikes and shit so I'm gonna check that out too if my area does.
I'm with you brother, there's not one place within 100 miles of me that you can just sit and drink coffee and have a gay old time. There's about 30 of them.
Ah, but can you profess burgeoning romantic interest in your fellow patrons at those or are we back at the original "no that isn't appropriate to ask out a woman just trying to enjoy her coffee, either?"
At the 30 coffee shops near me it doesn't exactly seem encouraged, but if you insist, I'm willing to try. Even makes "can I buy you a coffee" easier since we're already there assuming it is appropriate.
Ehh not buying that. By your logic I can just take what I want. Pretty sure that's called "crime" as it is against the "rules."
But I'll play along: Sure, and I've decided that as a rule I'd like to not be considered creepy, and as such am attempting to ask people out in a venue that won't make women uncomfortable or scared or whatever other negative attributes one pins on those seeking romantic partnerships outside of tinder or the liquor hut.
Sure, I could throw caution to the wind, say fuck it, be scared, think I'm creepy, eventually someone will get coffee with me," and it frankly seems like I'm at this last resort, so I may start, but I will feel skeevy when some girl is obviously like "I'm just trying to enjoy my work/the gym/hobbies/the store/coffee shop/school/park/etc."
I guess you may be right though at the end of the day, fuck em, a dude gotta eat. Them having negative feelings about it is a them problem I spose.
say fuck it, be scared, think I’m creepy, eventually someone will get coffee with me
I mean no but kinda. One thing that's practically always going to be the case is that you're physically intimidating, and you should never shirk away from acknowledging that, and be comfortable with it. The trick is to look like a roller-coaster: Intimidating, sure, but it's not going to throw you around unless you get on and when you do, you'll still be safe.
I think you are overthinking it way too much. I'm just talking about the social norms. Who said anything about committing crimes??? Did you think I was talking about breaking the law? Wtf? You trying to grab a tit while you say hey? Just say what's up and if she doesn't bite, go to the next one. Don't get discouraged, it's all about getting out there and practicing but it sounds like you may have some social insecurities that need to be addressed first... playbooiiii LOL
Is what I was making a joke about. There are, in fact, "rules," being the crux of the joke.
But no I mean the fact that supposedly no woman wants men to say what's up anywhere but the bar, which I do not frequent, or the dating apps, which are spyware.
I have never seen this actually happen and I have a lot of experience with gaming with randos (I'm old and I also started a gaming club in college that had over 75 members with at least 15 of them being female). I've been playing MTG and D&D at local shops for decades now and I've never once seen other dudes simping or fighting over a girl at the table.
Not saying it can't happen, nerds are nerds and do often lack social skills. But from my experience (and from what I've heard from my female gamer friends), this has got to be a rare situation.
I always have to remind myself that I was introduced to and raised in nerddom from my godmother. Everything was through the lens of her curated tastes.
So when I hit puberty later in life all the deranged horniness suddenly clicked in me as MY problem since for me it wasn't normalized. Playing D&D and MMOs just didn't have that foundation, so I could compare.
Thanks godmother for keeping me somewhat normal. I've been often alienated from gamers due to my application of basic respect and sometimes just plain apathy towards women.
Most women won't even accept a strange man into their activities. That's why you don't hear about this happening to men. Because unwanted sexual advances from women on men in women's friends circles definitely happen I can tell you from first hand experience. And women tend to be very insensitive to men's sexuality and not only encourage it but pressure you accept the advances because men "go for anything" so it shouldn't make a difference to you.
Would have been nice if more of the women in mmorpgs I played growing up were like that. Too many guilds were torn apart intentionally by women who damn well knew what they were doing and knew that at least one of your staff members was easy to twist around their fingers.
Edit: For anyone seething, women are people and they deserve respect like anyone else, but they are also people, and some of them are assholes.
I was in a guild on a mmorpg that was predominantly women, and there was a squabble between a couple women.
I said, "Settle down, you both have very big penises." One responded, "Uh, were girls." I replied, "Then why are you having a dick measuring contest?" It didn't go over particularly well, but the bickering died down.
Knowing my luck they would both turn on me if I was in that situation.
I do appreciate how there's more women in online games now though. FFXIV has a lot of women, and it's great because I don't have to be that guy anymore and deal with identity politics if someone acts out. There will probably be another woman in the group who is equally annoyed by whatever bad behavior is going on and call it out.
Never thought I'd sign up for socials again but you're an angry little misogynistic shit who happens to be so close to the truth.
You're not being downvoted because you're wrong. You're being downvoted because you came into a thread about women's issues and detracted from it for your own grievances. You say you respect women? Prove it by shutting the fuck up and listening when they speak about their problems without having to make everyone about yourself. Learn from this and maybe you'll become a more likeable person and you'll find a woman that wants to get on your dick.
Don't bother responding. I said everything that needed to be said, you'll either get it or you won't.
To think you "signed up for socials" just to try to white knight a hypothetical person, fuckin loser you've made this entire thread worse with your shitpost.
This is an online forum. You can't tell me not to respond or not to discuss something. Doing so isn't misogynism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the community this is posted in is not a women's exclusive space either.
You want to see misogynism? Go hunt down the guys who treat women like objects in the OP. I don't know what you want from me.
Some cases but not really, my friend group everyone maybe except 1 already has a significant other so no one bothers the girls. And we all play DotA 2 lmao
And why "just find a group hobby to meet a girl" is such bullshit advice. I worry about making women feel uncomfortable when they're just out living their lives so the only place I have to actually reach out to anyone are the absolute atrocious hellholes that are online dating sites...
It's not exactly bullshit advice, it's just advice that is used in a bullshit way. The advice can work when you don't throw yourself at a potential SO and just treat them like a normal person and don't force it.
I've met multiple partners through groups like that, and it always started out as treating them like a real person, making a real friend connection, and then letting the relationship grow on its own. I've also watched dudes flame out trying to make a relationship out of nothing and wonder why girls get creeped out when no isn't accepted. I'd also be lying if I said I've never been that guy, but thankfully I got better and saw the error of my ways.
There's also another side to this where you're too passive. Since girls, and especially more introverted girls, will expect the man to be the driving force of the relationship, if you don't express interest and eventually shoot your shot, then even if she was interested in you she will just move on to someone else.
So you really have to be in touch with social queues in order to strike a balance between too pushy and too passive, which for groups that massively overprepresent the autistic and otherwise socially awkward is asking a lot.
Yup, been there done that. I’ve just resigned to the fact that the whole social cues thing is too much for my brain and I’ll just stick to the hobby and be friends with them unless I get really lucky and get to know a girl that’s simultaneously interested in me and willing to make the first move.
100%. It's funny you mention that, as that was the situation with my first partner/wife. We ended up being close friends for a few years and I didn't take my shot because I didn't want to ruin the relationship, but thankfully one of her friends pushed the two of us together and we've been happily married for years.
My situation is also funny because I did a similar thing with my 2nd partner/our girlfriend. Though thankfully she was confident enough to make the first move, I wasn't going to risk the friendship even though I knew we were all poly. But in either case, it was always friends first, then light flirting that only increases as it was reciprocated.
Ultimately, our system has evolved over millions of years and our culture builds on top of the basic instincts. Optimal sexual strategy for humanity has long been that men push as hard as fuck even if it means a lot of us don’t make it. We can do this because male sperm is cheap and plentiful.
So civilization has adopted cultural standards that are extremely harsh on men to the point of destroying some of us. To make an analogy, our culture has a grading curve for men that is designed to fail 60% of us.
This is called “male disposability” and while MRAs take it as a grievance, it’s really just a fact of the world. It’s right up there with childbirth and externally-kickable balls as one of the facts of life.
Why am I talking about culture being a gauntlet in this way? Because men often complain about how our cultural rules not making it possible to mate without breaking any of the rules. Like in this thread: “I’m damned if I make a move on her because then I’m a creep, and I’m damned if I don’t because women expect men to take the initiative. So what the fuck?”
Well, culture isn’t a video game that’s balanced to ensure players have a way to win. That’s what I’m saying. Culture is a game, a game that evolved to win wars against nature and other human settlements. And it is a game that’s been balanced.
Unfortunately for those who cut their teeth on video games, culture is not balanced to be playable. It’s balanced to eliminate 60% of the players.
And one of the ways that extremely difficult “weed-out” mechanic works is that a man who plays by all the rules he is given, loses. If he does everything he is told to do, he loses the game. That is by design. Probably because some great unconscious information processing mechanism that selects our rules to win wars and survive into the future, knows that men who are perfectly obedient are poison to the group’s long-term survival.
Basically what the whole interface is telling you, is that what we need you to be is capable of doing the right thing based on your own judgment, not based on minimizing the degree to which you get in trouble or get chastised by people.
So we’ve made a game you can’t win, unless you’re willing to stop trying to stay out of trouble. Because if that’s all you’ve got — following orders and avoiding conflict — the next generation doesn’t need your genes.
Depends on your standards of 'attractiveness' and that of the people you associate with. I don't consider myself that attractive, but I've had multiple women make the first move on me after treating them like normal people and getting to know them as friends. That sort of behavior has its benefits :)
But I might be a special case, in that my proclivities mean I hang out in circles where women know they can feel safe to make moves without dudes being dudebros or have any expectation of 'the implication' being in play.
Men’s attractiveness is not very reliant on looks. Men are attractive to women mostly when they are successful and prosocial. So by getting out and improving his social skills, a man changes his own level of attractiveness.
Even the texture of the body changes with social status. Your postures get more attractive. Your body fills with the hormones that make your every action sexier. Heck, women find muscles attractive.
A man’s level of attractiveness is basically malleable. Any man who’s thinking of himself as “ugly” is just giving himself cover to give up on improving himself.
A man’s level of attractiveness is basically malleable. Any man who’s thinking of himself as “ugly” is just giving himself cover to give up on improving himself.
Sad you're getting downvoted for saying the truth, but I've met plenty of dudes who can't wrap their heads around this. But as a dude who is pretty far from 'conventional attractiveness', you're 100% right.
I had similar feelings about myself in my teenage years, and it led to me doing all kinds of behaviors that self-sabotaged any interest women had in me (and led to a really toxic relationship in high school). But "surprisingly", after I gave up on the stereotypical proto-dudebro/PUA behavior and focused on myself, I ended up making a few really cool female friends and that's literally why I have a wife lol. Improving myself mentally (I was fat af at that time) led to finding a LTR before I did any work to get to a reasonable weight. After shedding that weight, I've since had multiple relationships that were started by the woman instead of me. Hell, our current girlfriend made the first moves for our relationship too lol.
Men have to make relationships happen. If they do not directly and obviously show interest and intent on pursuing a person they're interested in, they will never have any sort of relationships. Ever.
Out of the 5 relationships I've been in maybe two were ones that I initiated, and I don't even consider myself to be that attractive. I've just had much better luck being a real person that someone wanted to like and letting things naturally develop than I ever did with that kind of behavior. In fact, some of the most cringey behavior of mine that I can remember is me directly and obviously showing interest in women who (looking back) clearly had no interest in me.
I mean that’s the whole point of flirting. You establish a rapport and read the social cues to see if there’s reciprocation. Smiles, eye contact, etc. The problem of course, is misreading.
I mean there’s a large category of conversation that can lead to further flirtation without being considered initial flirtation. That’s the whole point, escalating socially acceptable requests.
I think that's the biggest things several people keep missing. It isn't that flirting is forbidden. Flirting should be worked up to, and should be stopped immediately if the other person isn't interested.
Just like racing, if you try to gun it right off the line you're most likely just gonna lose traction and smoke your tires out. You gotta ease onto the throttle and ease off it if you start losing control.
I don't like racing so no idea why I chose that analogy.
There is nowhere that those people want you to meet people. They just want your (valid ) grievances with how much dating is shit to get out of their sight.
Find a hobby used to be 'get out of the damned house and be sociable, you will find not being weird makes you more likely to socialise with women and gain dates." Even the neckbeardiest of nerds would find it worked.
So it’s bullshit advice because you see yourself as so toxic that your meeting a girl, or going to social spaces to meet a girl, is somehow violating her ability to live her own life?
I think maybe the bullshit advice is from whoever told you to see yourself as a villainous monster whose desire to find a mate is a source of social toxicity.
You’re a human being, with the same right to be here as everyone else. It is not inherently violent for you to meet or even seek to meet sexual partners.
It doesn't really fix the problem, does it? Sure, the guys don't end up distracted by someone with female physical characteristics, but when they interact with those people later, they're still socially inept, creepy guys.
Which isn't to mention it basically excludes any women from participating, which isn't very fair to the women who would appreciate the opportunity to join, limiting their options for positive interactions.
It can also reinforce the negative behavior, since they're probably forced into those spaces because any space that isn't men-only, they've made so awkward and uncomfortable for the women that they've been asked to leave. So a nontrivial number of these problematic people are going to be funneled into men-only types of spaces, and they'll play off of eachother incel opinions, producing a confirmation bias that's hard to dispel.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm a guy, and I was the creepy dude in my younger years. I tried to be more subtle about it, but I recognize a lot of the incel opinions as opinions I once had or at least considered. I broke out of it through having some rather strong female friends who very bluntly told me when something wasn't okay. After a while of that, I realized that if you look past gender, and just treat everyone basically the same in all circumstances and don't be a fucking incel, then you can actually develop friendships with people regardless of their gender, and, as I discovered, once you're friendly with someone who you find attractive who also is fond of you, it can turn into more than just friendship. Once I put these pieces together, my entire life improved.
By essentially labeling them as a problem and putting them into their own little echo chamber, it will likely make the problem worse, not better.
Maybe in some, but it can. Source: was incel neckbeard in college. Was rehabilitated.
The problem is like with any person and their flaws, they have to actually be convinced it's a flaw, and then they have to actually want to fix it, which getting there is usually the hard part.
I mean, is it trying to be one of the guys, or is it simply enjoying a hobby that is predominantly male? There’s a big difference between a pickme and someone who simply enjoys a hobby.
Not a psychologist so cant say. Just one of those things guys find attractive and want to be involved in. Appeals to our drive for adventure would be my guess
When you go to play games with your friends, do you feel bad when none of them try to get you to suck their dicks and let them fuck you?
I'm willing to bet you don't, because it's actually weird to feel sad about not getting unwelcome sexual advances in a friendly, unromantic context.
It's crazy, but hear me out: most women don't want to be hit on when they're just going about their lives.
Women are not entitled to platonic relationships with men. And men like myself do get unwanted sexual advances from gay men and it's not the end of the world. You just respectfully decline, while understanding they have feeling too and that they're in a quite vulnerable position having hit on you.
Just because an unwanted sexual advance made you feel really bad doesn't make it bad. You're feelings do not define reality.
I think it's one of God's hilarious jokes that women have what men wish they had (lots of people who want to have sex with them) but the women don't want it. They should trade places with me - no one is trying to sleep with me...
The numbers don't tend to bear that out, and in any case, even the example you cite doesn't, because it's implying that the men who are short and ugly are having to be more humorous and have more depth than their tall beautiful counterparts.
I think oftentimes when people complain about this sort of thing they kind of just need someone to empathize with them rather than tell them that oops life's not fair time to suck it up crybaby, which is generally seen as a callous dickish response but any other issue. Not to say that's what you're saying, but I've seen that sort of response be pretty common when people sort of, make the point that being tall and good looking will make you more likely to "score", or get a date or whatever.
No, I'm saying they're not a great indicator of how people tend to be perceived, and people tend to be complaining about the trends, rather than the outliers. Also that, if you know short and ugly people who are funnier and have better personalities than their taller and handsomer counterparts, and who have had romantic success, that would kind of prove the idea that uglier, shorter people need to work harder correct.
I could probably also explain this with the friendship paradox, which I think I cited recently for a similar thing someone was citing as example.
Interesting, I've not seen those - rather, the perception that if a beauty is dating an ugly, then clearly the ugly is rich and the beauty is just trying to take the money (and possibly flee later).
I just want to talk at the fellas here. Man to man.
If you do this shit, the women will leave and not come back. I know the incels are going to think that's typical female behavior, and I'm here to say, no, it's not. It's typical for someone, of any gender, to want to exit a situation where they feel vulnerable, and that's what is happening.
Think of it like this: you end up in prison, and your naked, alone, you have no allies or friends, while taking a shower with about 100 other dudes, and Bubba comes over with a grin saying "you're awful pretty". How would you feel? I'm guessing you would want to nope the hell out of there and never take a shower with Bubba in the room, ever again. And that's natural. You were in danger, you want to avoid that danger. While the circumstances might be different for the women you're interacting with, that raw emotion, the exact same one you would have felt with Bubba talking about how pretty you are, the feeling that gave you, it's exactly the same.
Now think, after Bubba made such a statement, what could Bubba do to win your trust to shower next to them again at all? Probably not much. Same deal fellas. There's little to nothing you can do or say to make them feel comfortable being around you when you've done something that inspires that unsafe feeling of danger.
Now, how could Bubba avoid the situation of you feeling like you're in danger and wanting to get out of there. A reassurance? Like Bubba instead saying "don't worry, I'll protect you".... You're going to wonder "from what?" Because until Bubba spoke up, you had no feeling of danger. How does that make you feel? Well, I would feel like there's danger that Bubba knows about that I don't, so now I'm on edge, looking for what Bubba is talking about, and all of a sudden, I'm having the same feeling of danger, just this time from an unknown assailant. That's not good either. I'd still want to gtfo and not go back. Worse now since I don't know what the danger actually is. Not only would I not want to shower with Bubba nearby like in the previous scenario, but now I don't want to be left alone with anyone.
Same deal fellas. By trying to reassure the lady, you imply that there's danger indirectly; she gets creeped out and leaves to not come back.
So, what's the right thing to do here?
It's easier than you think. Treat them like you would any of your male friends. Treat them like a person. You don't need to reassure your male friends that you'll protect them, nor do you feel the need to defend them when their "honor" is challenged. Let them handle it, but have their back if they need you.... and only if they need you.
Be a friend first, and if something happens that makes your relationship with that person, more than just friends, so much the better. Don't expect it, women aren't slot machines, where you put in enough tokens of niceness and eventually you win the sex jackpot. It doesn't work that way. It never has, and it never will. You can't force someone to like you, and if you try, you'll either take any attraction that they might have had for you, and destroy it, and/or simply cause them to feel unsafe and creeped out, and they'll find a way to exit and never return.
People, regardless of gender, just want to do things they enjoy. If you also enjoy those things, then engage in the enjoyment of those things with the other people who enjoy them. Don't make it about gender. If, beyond that, you both like eachother, you'll find a way to spend more time together and that's when things can grow to more than just being friendly, as long as you're both agreeable to it.
If you continually obsess over the fact that their anatomy is different, you'll end up filling whatever negative ideas you have about the other gender, and push yourself so deep into a hole of confirmation bias that you may never recover. Just be people. Treat others the same, as people.
I believe in you. You can do better. Always improving.
You will fall, you will be rejected, you will have set backs. And that's all normal. It's a part of learning. You got this.
Lemmy is the best social media platform out there, holy shit
Good, that you finally realize. :p
This is some nice advice but
Don't do this. Understand that you wouldn't do this with any random guy either. As with any new acquaintances everyone is cautious in the beginning and women more so. Whether you find the new girl appealing or not all you have to do is cautiously get to know her through your interactions with her, like any other relations you may build with initial strangers and get used to their presence and predilections.
You're telling me not to rip a wicked funny fart and sock her hard in the shoulder when she's too much of a panty waist to laugh? Pfsh.
Some guys have no idea how to talk to chicks.
SHHH!! Don't say that shit out loud you're gonna raise the competition.
Thank you for this. You are eloquently and (hopefully) non-threateningly (is that even a word?) stating a message that really, really needs to be said again and again until everyone friggin' gets it.
IMO, A nontrivial amount of blame goes to the fathers of such people.
This shouldn't imply that those who need to hear this are exempt from blame; they should have simply been educated by their parents on simple social etiquette....
Of course, I'm also certain that a nontrivial number of those father's actively encouraged such misbehavior.
Trust is at its most basic a finite resource. Whenever a person messes up they recover by giving some of that trust away. Eventually that trust runs out. In rare cases you can regain some of it. However, in the vast majority of situations you'll never get back all that trust lost.
So spend wisely.
Or rather don't spend at all.
Erect?
I'm imagining one of those problem-guys saying specifically this during a game.
Imma be real with you. I ain't reading all that.
I can summarize: It's an appeal to reason written from the perspective of a nice, caring, socially aware man called Bubba, who doesn't understand why women run from him when he approaches them in the shower.
Tldr?
Don't be a dickhead.
Treat women as if they were just people
Don't ask girls out. The end.
for you, probably a good life rule.
Meanwhile I just try to have normal conversation but they go for avoidance manuever right away.
It can often be how you go about it. If you just dive in and start talking to them, even if well intentioned and you literally do just want to talk to someone new about whatever, because of all those past experiences of guys only trying to do that to get with them, they'll see you as probably just another one of those creepos.
It's a dance, and it's an annoying one at times for sure, and it takes practice. If you can recall the last time you tried to strike up a conversation, or next time it happens, afterwards, really stop and think about it from the other person's perspective. If you know a woman you trust, try asking her to go over the whole interaction with you.
In college I was a major incel neckbeard loser and truly was the epitome of the green text above. I'm not proud of it. I took a chance and asked a few women I knew why I kept being single and lonely and if they could advise. They did exactly that for me. Took me through some of my interactions, explained where I went wrong, and helped me reframe my thoughts. I now am pretty much always able to strike up a conversation wherever I'm at.
TL:DR - find someone you trust to walk you through the why. You got this
I see, maybe that was it, even tho I did not have intention to get accustomed to. Btw idk why I am downvoted that much, do people think I am lying? Huh. I thought it was possible to be interested in becoming friends, even tho it is towards women..
Also, people do not know of those who avoid just based on looks?
Sure there's people out there who will avoid you based on looks but usually though it's something else. If you're confident, kind, and properly socializing, then looks often don't matter.
The thing about looks that matter is how you present yourself. Keep up the hygiene, keep your clothes cleaned, and just present your best self as a person.
I say this as a fat dude who hasn't bought new clothes in 10+ years and even then bought what I liked not what was in style. I still do just fine. For us men, our look is in our attitude.
You seem like you really want to find the answer to getting out there but you're getting in your own head. Just let it slide, go have fun, don't focus on other people, don't worry about past slip ups once you've learned from them, maybe find a mentor. You do that, and the rest will happen. It just takes time and patience.
Thanks Chat GPT-4, life is so much better since you came along!
This text is not from generative AI like GPT-4.
How do I know?
and other minor signs.
This is just a fellow human giving solid advice.
Thank you GPT-4.5, you truly are an update.
TIL - asking someone on a date is the equivalent of prison rape.
If this is what you gleaned from reading all of that then yes, YOU asking someone on a date may be the equivalent of prison rape.
It's really unfortunate that the people that need to read that top comment most are incapable of processing it
Bubba here.
I'm a nice guy: I give some small, cute dude a compliment and he acts like a total bitch about it? I'm the "creep" because I jokingly asked him if he wants to come back to my cell? Oh, my comments make him uncomfortable? Give me a fuckin' break.
Maybe if he doesn't want guys checking him out he should stop acting and dressing like such a slut.
It's the implication
So...asking someone on a date implies you're going to prison rape them.
Found the "Bubba" in this scenario...
Incel detected, opinion rejected
This is why all of my gaming groups just start with an orgy and get that out of the way right off the bat. Everyone gets everything. Sex communism solves all. (Major /s if not obvious)
How do I sign up comrade?
"willing and able"
Submissive and breedable
To monitor the emergency exit door of the orgy room.
Wait, isn't this what session 0 is for? Getting all the tension out and working through your issues?
Can I wear full plate to the orgy?
It is in fact required
Always wear protection
That’s why I only have sex surrounded by landmines. And I put one up my ass because I’m not GAY DONT TOUCH MY ASSHOLE
Only the massively oversized codpiece is required, but you've got to attach it to something
That's classism!
Found the Greek!
Controlling the means of reproduction!
I would recommend learning how to play roll20 (free to play virtual table top) and finding a westmarches Discord server. I moved to an area where I have zero friends and got into playing dnd that way. It's pretty fun, flexible scheduling, out of game roleplaying whenever. I'm a 38 y/o cis male so I can't say there will be no issues, cus I never really experienced them at all. I'd totally imagine you'd have a different, and hopefully better, experience than irl games. Feel free to DM if you'd like more info.
I second this. There are some really great Discord communities to play on that I'm part of. Generally, it's much easier to keep the creeps out by just banning them. It doesn't have to be a Westmarches server, but any TTRPG server with an actual community that runs game on the server itself, instead of just another LFG fishing pond.
While this may be true, I brought a laptop on a game yesterday and I'm not sure the girl on the opposite side of the table didn't think something like that when my eyes were on top of the screen. Which was a lot of times, because naturally all the people are above the screen and only the keyboard and the table are below the screen.
So - please consider the fact that if there's a direct line of sight to your tits, and someone has to look in that general direction, they may occasionally from time to time look there. And also that due to, eh, basic uncontrollable instincts they may do that unconsciously a bit more than they need. Like looking at a bunch of pencils and noticing the red ones more than the grey ones.
Also when I talk to girls about my hobbies, they very often apparently perceive this as some nonsense to get romantic. Usually that means that they gradually ignore me more and more and refuse to believe that it's more complex. Though kinda recently (and long ago before that which led to a trauma, but eh) it was me who thought that they are fine with talking about hobbies, while being more romantic was expected, eventually led to being ignored too.
At least in the adult world, I think most women can differentiate looking around the room/staring into space and staring at their tits.
I assure you, they're the experts. 🤣
I also included staring at their tits unconsciously, when not thinking where they are staring, or unintentionally. All more probable due to instincts.
..people secretly stare like that? What? Tbh, it is unfair that people can get away with that yet I cannot ever have social interactions by me being autistic.
... How the hell do you pretend to look at your phone but also look at tits... I need to know for... Reasons lol.
camera? also, no.
No way people actually do that
Yeah that's why I'm wondering. Do they point their camera at her tits and look at them through the phone and pretend to type or something? Wouldn't everyone else see the boobs on the camera?
Why not just stare off into space? I already hate looking people in the face so looking at their chest is like second nature to me. Where is anyone else going to look when everyone is ideally facing each other around a DnD table. Up?
I'd be bored of seeing Diana of Ephesus' tits after the third session even if she came in without a shirt lol.
Find a group of mostly older/married people. It might not solve the problem, but it'll delay it enough that you can get a solid playtest of your latest build before things go to shit.
When I was young, the more females that joined, the less it happened. DND, MTG, whatever.
They are called girls, you know.
Isn't "women" preferable over both terms? Pretty sure if I used the term "girls" around most women I know they'd find it offensive. But most women I know are between 25 and 50 years old.
Oh, so you only hang out with FEMALES AFTER THEYVE HIT THE WALL AND ARE NO LONGWR VALUABLE AND THEY PROBABLY ARE MANIPULATING YOU WITH THEIR VAGINAS EVEN THOUGH THEIR VAGINAS ARE POINTLESS AFTER 20
(I literally felt gross typing that. Even though the people who genuinely think that way would probably say, like 17, not 20. Yuck.)
17 is ok if you're into older girls I guess. /s and also yuck
It’s crazy how wrong it feels typing that, right?
Possibly. They didn't say how young they were, so I assumed teens, not 30s.
I’d say “women” in a professional setting, but among friends I don’t see it as an offensive thing. It’s just an informal or casual thing. I’m a guy, and the group of women often includes my wife. But it’s said in a friendly tone.
I think singular vs plural matters too. I would say “good night girls” to a couple of friends leaving, but not “good night girl” to one friend leaving.
If you say "boys and girls" that's ok imo, but saying "men and girls" is probably condescending again
I agree with that amendment. It’s about context just as much as tone and intent.
I always wondered why some nerds (affectionate) use the terms males/females. Maybe they're copying some science fiction book they read?
Up until like 7 years ago, the word lacked major misogynistic connotation. It used to be fairly common in certain subsects, including nerds, and it all but died in them. I wonder when “female” will become kosher again. This century is unlikely, given the Tate taint. The evolution of language is fascinating.
My friend, you're 44 and haven't learned the art of not giving a fuck what people think of you? Wear that sick trench coat. Worst case scenario, someone laughs at you, and you brighten their day a bit.
Upvoted and I'm technically in agreement with you, but at the end of the day most of us humans are social creatures and how we fit in is, on some level at least, important to us.
I will say though if dressing like a neckbeard is fundamental to who someone is, they should absolutely go for it. But for me, who thinks fedoras (sans modern context) do indeed look cool, that's not enough to overcome the stigma. It's all about finding our personal balances, I guess.
I hope you just go and enjoy life how you want. Fuck other people. Wear a fedora and swing Satan's pretending it's a lightsaber.
We die at the end of our lives, not the people who judge us. Be free.
Yeah I just gave up on that. I'd rather be an unpopular me than a popular someone else. The world should be different and my friends all feel the same way.
I dunno if this was ever true, but I think you'll find more success the more you lean in, because the more you lean in, the harder it is to take you seriously. pair your trench coat with cargo shorts. wear a flea market xxl silk anime shirt with goku on it, unbuttoned, behind that, you gotta wear a mario or zelda shirt or something. a thinkgeek style of shirt. wear some crocs with the jibbits in em. maybe wear a cool casio watch, a silver one. get a fanny pack, put this in the belt loop of your trench coat. See if you can get a katana around there too. get some coke bottle glasses, some morpheus glasses that just sit on the bridge of your nose too. get some ankle high socks, get a couple cool bracelets, if you're balding, shave the top, go for a horseshoe shape, grow out your hair, and put it in a ponytail. get your glasses to have a strap.
do all that, and then you'll wrap back around to being cool, and stylin'. you'll be hip with the youths.
Whoa. Just be yourself. It's ok.
I blame the ferengi
But they've been around for way longer than seven years no?
I think we just realized how overly clinical and dehumanizing it is and it just became an easy tell that that person probably, whether they realize it or not, doesn't really see women as equally human to men, like women are only the sex characteristics that make them biologically female.
To be clear, im referring to the phenomenon where someone, despite frequently using the word 'men', is seemingly only able to refer to women as 'females'. You almost never see 'males' used in that standalone way outside of clinical contexts. So yeah, blame those people for ruining it, not the rest of us for wising up to it.
Sometimes it's just a non-native speaker thing
I use it to distinguish sex and gender. Only some females have to deal with periods and pregnancy, but all women have to deal with social mysogeny. In this context I would use women because it's a gender issue not a sex issue.
I think it might also be an age thing, if you're in high school/late teenager and talking about your female peers it's a neutral sounding term for when "girls" is too casual and "women" makes them seem too old.
Your best bet is to try and find groups with better ratios of guys to gals. These groups tend to self regulate and give the creeps the boot.
People play fantasy games to live out their fantasies. And for some sad people, their fantasy is to touch women because they act so repulsively no one wants to risk getting close to them.
Just be fat, it worked for me.
Are you serious? It doesn't work that way where I am.
Be fatter/s
Or move out of Alabama
Thats like saying stop being related to your boyfriend kek
Beef Adders are the most dangerous and delicious snakes
Yup, and no matter how the DM handles it, it's still a pain in the ass.
My table? That shit don't fly, but it's still going to mean some dude getting butt hurt and needing a firm talking to. Might go years without it happening, but I don't know a DM that hasn't run into it it once or twice with new groups or new players.
One of my long term players is a woman. She was a "girl" when she started with the core group, if you count 16 as a girl still.
She's a great player, and a good friend. The number of times I've had to tell guys to fuck off and not come back is absurd. Shouldn't even be once, though you'd expect teenagers to pull it. No, it was grown ass men. The last one, we were all 40ish in the core group, and the guy that pulled it was older than us. He was an acquaintance from where I used to work, and had always been chill with women. No bullshit, no problems. But he still couldn't get past the idea that she was there and obligated to give him a shot just because they shared a hobby.
This is why a lot of women keep our nerdy hobbies to ourselves and don't really talk about them much in public.
People get weird.
My wife plays FPS games and doesn't even speak because the moment she does, half the dudes feel like they need to show off and get her attention, and the other half get sexually frustrated and laser focus on only her.
In counter strike it seems to manifest pretty quickly as misogyny.
I only play FPS in VR and the male/female interactions are weirdly wholesome. Literally never seen the behaviours that are sadly the norm in flatscreen gaming. I'm still not sure why this is the case, maybe the reporting system is just better, or it's something to do with feeling more present in VR.
There's no need to speak in online games anyway. I never use a mic or headset to play games like that, I still just use the chat. Voice chat always off.
Really liked your work in The Baby
It's spelled Barbie
... and it is art.
Swear you were in the baby too, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k2x1yP2cpE8&t=827s
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k2x1yP2cpE8&t=827s
I’ll save her.
You should shoot your shot
Already did after seeing that cute picture ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler /s :::
I like how often people who start white knighting are looked down on by both sides. Something about the disingenuousness of it I guess
It is because to the harasser they are killjoys. To the aggrieved they are robbing them of agency to help themselves. However, fuck the harassers, and sometimes people need help and don't know how to ask. I would rather be called a white knight than a creep or someone who did nothing and was thus complicit in the harassment. I'm old and grumpy though and if I'm "helping" it is because I'm sick of the bullshit not because I care if people think I'm a good person; I think that intent matters.
I thinks it's more they know they white Knight is doing the same thing they are but with a holier than thou smug attitude.
Guy chiming in. I use to go to small, monthly lan parties a lot. Every now and then a woman would show up and 4 or 5 of the average 10 total guys would make weird jokes about there being a female present. I don't think I ever saw the same woman twice.
Men and females
Read it again. This self-proclaimed man uses 'women' to describe some people, and also uses 'females' for how some other people describe them.
I'm not mocking the commenter.
I'm not sure your point. I used both "woman" and "female" in my comment. I used the term "female" specifically when I did to reinforce the idea that certain people in the group saw the women more as foreign objects than new people.
I don't hang out with those people and if you asked me if I stepped in to do anything about that weirdness, I wouldn't have because it would have been a loss cause. I hang out with better groups now a days.
I'm not mocking you. I'm mocking the people you're talking about.
Wahmen and Femoids.
That's sad. At our LAN there were two women regularly. One lost interest in PC games and the other now comes with her friend. She's pretty good at Chivalry. What a bloodthirsty girl...
It's was weird. Growing up, I took the "girls don't play video games" attitude as self deprecating machismo. Finding out that, no, this was how many people, including many girls my age, though was... disappointing.
Hang out with more LGBT people. If I wanna get laid, I can turn on Growlr and have a dude deliver himself to my basement.
... So what you're saying is you're choosing the bear?
He is the bear.
This post & username combo has me in a state I can only describe as Terroroused.
My advice is to find a more diverse group. Married and LTR folks are typically less likely to engage in this behavior, especially if their partners are there too. Its tough when you're in your 20s because 20something guys are all trying to throw their 3 pointer despite the odds.
Either that or find an overtly lewd mixed-gender/mixed-sexuality group and embrace it. I played a very racy campaign in Uni that was a lot of fun. Everyone was onboard with what was going on though before it started and we knew it was going to get weird in a fun way. It was a fun way to also explore my own gender/sexuality in a safe no-contact fantasy way.
Some married women tend to assume you (unmarried somewhat attractive woman) want their man.
Man, there is just no winning is there?
It's people, there is never any winning. You do your best to find chill people and don't waste your precious limited leisure time with people who make you feel bad.
This is my new life motto.
This is my new life motto.
Yeah usually the ones being unfaithful themselves are the most controlling and paranoid.
Aw :(
That sucks.
For real, I was just reading this and thinking: "Damn, that was totally me back in the day, those poor girls." 🙁
Well, the best thing you could've done is grow enough to have the maturity to post this comment. So there's that
No one on 4chan believed her because of rule 30 and because "they didn't know that you can play games in the kitchen". I can read the comments without the comments.
You know, it really makes it feel like those comments are particularly useless when, just by having used the website for a long enough time, you can imagine them simply by the scars they have branded onto your thinking goo. It becomes totally redundant at that point, totally useless, even worse than it having contributed nothing but empty space in the first place, it now occupies empty space in the brain. It's like old farts constantly remembering and bantering about ad jingles from their youth, it fills me with dread.
The things I have seen.... 1000 yard stare
I've got some lemons, let's have a party and scrub the things from your brain that you've seen and leave a nice citrusy scent instead. We can call it a lemon party.
I wish that was the worst
On the one hand, I sympathize - on the other, it'd be awesome to find someone who shares my interests.
If it's an overwhelmingly male group, just wait. If she's looking for a boyfriend then she'll come on to one of you first. For the men it's a prisoner's dilemma; your chances are really bad.
I'm done with the bars and their drunks, and the apps with the spying, out of school, and don't date coworkers, the advice given to me every time I complain about the fact that there are no other "third places" to meet women romantically 100% of the time is "get a hobby." Well, see above. There is no place, women do not want to be talked to anywhere but the bar or apps which ime have been bad places to find long-term companionship.
Can we do something about this? Can we maybe start "bars" where the focus isn't alcohol but it is socially acceptable to say "hey I think you're cute wanna go get some damn coffee?"
Come the fuck on. The rules have been the same from the dawn of time.
#1 Be Attractive
#2 Don't be unattractive
You'll hear shit on the internet all the time about how women don't want to be approached, don't want to be hit on, don't want anyone to flirt with them... but it's all bullshit because the person saying it is an INDIVIDUAL. It's right for them but it isn't right for all women. I promise, women date men all the time!
It doesn't matter that they get all the upvotes in the world from all the white knights and other women who are sick of the attention. That's fine. Don't harass women who shut you down and you can freely ignore the loud voices on the internet.
Since forever in western society, Men have to generally try to make the first move - even if it's just asking a woman out for coffee - and based on the response you either move on or keep trying. It's literally that simple. It's also mostly a numbers game... but the be attractive thing is no joke. Don't be an asshole. Don't be a slob. Learn how to cook and do chores and keep your place clean... if you don't have a place, bust your ass until you get to a point where you can get one.
All the tropes where women say they don't date anyone at xyz is bullshit beyond the individual level. If someone finds you attractive and they want to date you they are going to give positive body language and positive answers to the things that would escalate towards that goal if they really want you. If they don't, they just don't want you, try someone else.
If you're getting angry about women not wanting you and it makes your blood boil and you think you deserve something... you are ignoring rule #1 and rule #2, quit being a fucking asshole.
Finally.. why in the fuck you wouldn't date someone at work is beyond me. People marry someone they met at work all the time.
Great post tbh its refreshing to see an intelligent thought out response on social media for a change lol
that's some great piece of advice in here
You can't prove that! Until I see evidence this is all conjecture! Hell for all I know all those supposed women who date those men met them in said bars or apps!
Lol kidding. I know, I have even dated a few myself, buuuut I did indeed meet them all in bars (or school.) I sorta was drinking way too much and spending way too much money though, and unfortunately covid happened, inflation went tits up, I couldn't bar then because quarantine and I can't really bar much now because my local grocer has decided all my money is his, besides the whole "drinking like 1 drink instead of 15+" thing, and I've kind of become disillusioned with that whole scene. The girl I was dating at the start of quarantine was even worse than me, like "a bottle of vodka a night" bad, and frankly I'd just like maybe something a little different, and even besides her, the four previous I also met at a bar, and they were also not much better off (though the last one was the worst by a mile the rest were just like "me then" not "me now.")
Only when I need to; I'm clean and shower I swear, I'm just a punk, the vest is just well seasoned; own my house (well...the bank does, for now, but whatever).
Oh did I mention I literally have a diagnosed "learning disability" that basically amounts to "this fucking moron misses a lot of social cues?" Lol 'cause that is kinda a thing.
No work because I like my job and don't wish to cause any possible issues with it. Y'know, like if it doesn't work out or whatever, I'd just like to avoid the possibility for awkwardness entirely.
I mean I'm not entirely ruling it out, shipping has fairly high turnover, so maybe we'll hire a single person at some point and we vibe, and maybe she decides not to stick around, and I see if she wants to chill "now that she's leaving and we can't see each other here anymore," but that's a lot of "ifs" lol. I mean at the moment there's just flat out no options at my work unless I want to try and cause a divorce lol.
I used to date at work sometimes back in my restaurant days, but that's just what it is. I have considered picking up a little side waiting gig though just to try and meet someone single, then I can be the one who quits if it gets weird, and pick up some cash for the dates on the way. Working too much OT for that one right now though but I have it in my back pocket.
OH and I'm not angry at women for not wanting to be hit on anywhere, I'm just advocating for the creation (or someone tell me about some if they exist pls) of a place where it is ok. Another poster has stuff like "singles hikes" in their area, that is kinda what I'm looking for. Frankly we just need more "third places" because the old ones are all dead except bars and church, is basically my complaint here.
Though as you say "the complaints are individuals, shoot your shot." Like they said to Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore, I guess I'll just have to "play it where it lies" even if that is on a giant guy's foot, or at the grocery store or a hobby like this post.
That would have line up with "dirty" but go off queen.
The things is, yeah, get a hobby. Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range. Foster a sincere, genuine interest in that hobby and don't treat it like a meat market. Get to know people, and make friends.
Also, while you're at it, get in shape; lift weights, do cardio, watch your macros. Take daily showers, and wear clean clothes every single day. Clean up your space at home, and keep it that way. Work on yourself, and make yourself a person that you would want to date if someone didn't know anything about you or your personality (because "nice" isn't a personality).
There's nothing wrong with dating at work per se, but you need to be very, very careful because it's easy to quickly go from light flirting to "hostile work environment", and I've known more than a few people that didn't understand the difference. If you're a supervisor, you should absolutely not, under any circumstances, date or attempt to date anyone directly below you on the org chart.
Yeah, I have some hobbies. One is D&D. See OOP. Pretty sure she's complaining about me (kidding, which I really wish I didn't have to specify lol but I do.)
I'm not exactly in shape but I'm not exactly out of it either, I'm kinds standing in shape's doorway letting all the AC out. Supposedly dad bods are in however. I don't use macros I use linux (again, jk.) I do take showers nightly which oughta be close enough and jeans don't get dirty enough to change every day, but the rest I do. Alright you got me, I have cat toys and laundry on my floor. I've seen worse though, and from women at that! I already am fairly up my own ass, I think I'm pretty fuckin' neat, the issue is where can I talk to people (just something as simple as "hey I think you're cool, you seeing anyone? Wanna drink some coffee?") other than an app or bar?
Not a supervisor, but yeah it just seems like a whole can of worms I'd rather leave closed. Back in the restaurant days it was actively encouraged but this place is different. Not "corporate" but still not full of cool degenerates like my old haunts. Oh and the only woman there even near my age is married to a guy who also works there, so they'd have to hire someone or those two would have to divorce (and even then...)
I have thought about picking up a bullshit 1-2 days a week waiting shift literally just to meet women who work there, (not specific like I'm stalking some poor waitress, just "any restaurant," most employ some women lol) but atm I'm working too much OT.
Per my prior comment - "Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range." That is not D&D, my dude. To later points - that's where you need to be to meet people. I'm going to assume that you don't go to church, and you said that you were out of college. That said, taking personal enrichment classes can be a good place to meet people and make friends, like finding classes on pottery throwing, or jewelry making. (Lapidary tends to attract more men though, which is a little odd.) Classes on making stained glass, maybe? Or ballroom dancing.
Yeah, no. Get in shape. I mean the kind of shape where you have a resting heart rate below 60bpm, can run at least a 5k and survive, lifting free weights, etc. In general people that are in good physical condition, and look like it, will have a far easier time dating, because that's your first impression. The 'dad bod' thing isn't about women preferring men that look like X, Y, or Z, but is more a statement that personality and how a man acts is more important than how he looks. HOWEVER, your appearance is going to be the first thing that people see, so you want to start on a high point.
For reference, when I was dating, I was riding my bike about 28 miles/day, 5 days/week, and in the gym about two hours a day.
I would suggest morning rather than nightly. People sweat at night, and you want to start the day as fresh as possible.
Irrelevant. You're trying to create a positive impression.
It is not something I'd recommend if you work closely with a person.
Honestly, I think that the best bet is going to be trying to make friends through classes that you take for enjoyment, and just trying to be social there. Like, no pressure, not goal-oriented socializing, just trying to meet people and make friends socializing.
Sees post about woman complaining about her D&D group
"Women don't play D&D!"
Bruh Crit Roll came out, your info is like 10yr out of date, women play TTRPGs now. Nerdy ones mostly but that's cool.
Pottery class is a good idea though, I could get into that shit!
Cool plastic surgery it is lol. Nah ngl I think you're wrong about the whole "you have to look like them steroid using celebs" but who knows.
Unfortunately I can't ride my bike that long as I have a job. I'm 5'6" 130lbs no abs, they can take it or leave it at that point tbh, fuck em if they want to be shallow. I'm not going to completely change who I am and become a gym rat, I don't think it's as serious of an issue as you make it out to be.
Well too bad! Nightly it is, I'd rather sleep on clean sheets than get home greasy and sweaty from a 10hr shift of manual labour and pretend that getting into bed in that state is not disgusting as fuck, and I'm not taking 2 showers a day unless I need to.
Well cats gotta play, the laundry I can indees pick up but if they don't want a dude with cats tbh I'm not the one.
Yeah I don't reccomend it either which is why I say I don't want to do it, logically.
Yeah that pottery class idea sounds like a good one.
It's still heavily stacked towards being men. If your end goal is to meet women that you can be friends with, and possibly date, you want to reverse those ratios.
For a first impression? It absolutely helps. That's the whole point of a first impression; they have absolutely nothing to go off but your appearance, so you need to make your appearance look as good as possible. Being bigger than, say, Dwayne Johnson in his prime probably isn't going to help. And the kind of fitness I'm talking about can absolutely be achieved without resorting to illegal drugs or cosmetic surgery.
That was how I got to and from work. Work was 14 miles, one way, in city traffic. I carried work clothes in a large messenger bag and changed when I got to work. (This obvs. doesn't work if you have a job that requires you to carry e.g. tools to and from job sites.)
Look, that's on you. But the idea that, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me" didn't work well for Stuart Smalley either. A lot of people think that you shouldn't have to change anything about who you are in order to find or attract a partner, or that people should 'accept me as I am'; I disagree with that. If you aren't finding people that are interested in who you are--and that you are likewise interested in--then the problem isn't with other people, it's within you, and incumbent on you to make the changes in yourself. You want your own psychological needs and desires met, but at the same time, you need to be ready and able to meet the needs and desires of another person. And yes, that means making changes. And those changes can be difficult and uncomfortable to make.
You can argue about which changes are, and are not, reasonable to make, but ultimately, if you aren't willing to make changes, then you can't expect to find what you say you want.
I have 6 of them (three Sphynx, one Cornish Rex, a Siamese, and a formerly feral Manx, down from an all-time high of 10). I'm aware. But I still pick up their toys, vacuum the floors/carpet/upholstery, clean their boxes, wipe up the food they pull out of their bowls, etc.
I’ve heard of a club in my country where you put on a colored bracelet based on whether or not are you looking for a partner. Seemed like a cool idea but I think it didn’t catch on.
I'm into it tbh, I'd join up! Sounds like a good idea.
Try searching for "Traffic Light Party" or "Stop Light Party". Bars/clubs don't usually do it as a continual thing now but some still host them as special events. Heck, if you can find a place that has done it in the past you could always just ask them if they've thought about doing another.
That sounds like a key party lol idk about all that! Jk I'll google what that is and if there are any near me, thanks!
At least in my area, key parties are pretty openly called key parties. Those are usually hosted at hotels though. For obvious reasons, lol.
Lol I was just making a joke.
No. Not if there will be girls there.
I'm a good looking, personable guy, so my experience is certainly biased by that. Also coming from someone from the us.
But I've found you can approach women in most places. The thing is to just not be creepy about it, and learn how to pick up on cues that she is not interested or uncomfortable. And once "no" has been established, still treating them the way you had before.
If, like described in the geentext, you're claiming you own someone, or you're fighting with friends over it when noone is even dating anyone, the problem is not with approaching the woman.
Frankly, same, with the difference that I've been around women both irl and online who complain about it constantly, so since I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable I stopped. Seems to be around the time the apps came out that it stopped being socially acceptable ime, though I'm not sure that's the cause.
You mean you've been around women who felt comfortable complaining about it around you. Which likely means that they don't think of you as a creep, and now you think of yourself as one...
The bad apples won't care they're going to continue to creep, the men you're comfortable with get scared off. Please, for everyone's sake, both genders and everything in-between and laterally, start to actually talk about how the young'uns are supposed to continue the human race because they sure as fuck don't seem to have an idea. A mere 20 years ago we could sit in mixed company laughing and groaning during an impromptu "everyone's best and worst pickup line" contest, that levity among friends. Levity is serious business re-learn it.
You still can. The discourse is because a large chunk of the male population doesn't understand how to do that without being creeps. Don't be a creep and women will like being around you
How large is the chunk that doesn't dare do it because they think their behaviour would be considered creepy, even though they'd do perfectly fine? Because that was the case I was replying to, not the overall situation.
If gals want to keep up the overall "don't talk to me if I haven't talked to you first" approach, fine, but then y'all gotta start being more proactive with your own pick up skills. And starting pick up line contests yourselves in suitable company, instead of letting decent guys sit there, coming to believe any muscle they move in your presence to be an offence. Thinking they can't show themselves they start to hide themselves, now they can't be read properly any more, their intentions might very well still be pure but because something is hidden well anything could be hidden there, and now you've got an actual creep on your hands.
Tbh some of the complaining was about pretty innocuous stuff, like not pushy or anything (well of course I wasn't there but sometimes the stories just sound like "normal shooting your shot" stuff. And they likely trust me because I haven't tried asking them out, at least in part. If I did I bet that'd change right quick haha.
It is! And it worked great for me and my partner! We both got tired of the apps, and neither of us are big socialites, and felt like speed dating was a long-shot, but after meeting at speed dating, we went on a coffee date (so we could talk for more then the 7 minutes they gave us at speed dating), and everything just felt right! I won't say it was love at first sight, but within the year we'd moved in together, and couldn't be happier with each other. Just search online for speed dating in whatever decent-sized city you're in or near, and you'll probably find something!
Idk, but that's a damn fine idea!
Not for people in their 20s.
At least four years ago (or whenever right before Covid started. I'm so bad with time) my 25 year old cousin in law went to a string of speed dating events. They still exist. Heck. I just duckduckgo'd "my state speed dating" and in about twenty seconds found ten within a 30 minute drive over the next month.
There’s also group activities where you can meet friends of friends who are single. Baseball games, concerts, weddings, camping trips etc.
My friends have mostly moved, the ones that are still here we chill when we can but we're all adults with lives and known each other for years, not many new faces usually.
It can be a little bit of a pain making new friends as an adult, but it's totally doable. If you make yourself available you'll find em. I found what works for me (30s dude) is to just ask. A friend complaining about having to go to a cousin's wedding? Just ask if you can join and try to make it fun. Then just start listening to conversations and joining in. Doing that I met one guy who does music production on the side for local bands and because of one comment we got talking about AI (something I've done some small work with) and how I thought it would impact him in the near future. He reached out through a mutual acquaintance to get my number and is planning to now invite me to his wedding next year.
I've got more examples but feel I'm rambling. My friend group had majorly shrunk when I moved two ish years ago and I just went through it. Even adults with kids like friends and can become good ones.
Volunteering maybe. Church is crazy, you want me to join a whole ass religion just to meet a woman and then what, pretend to be christian for the rest of my life?! I'd sooner go back to the drink! Sports I'm not really into, and everyone keeps saying "don't just do it to meet women" but like, that's exactly what I'd be doing. Idk maybe like ping pong or something but idt we have a local ping pong league near me, I'll look. Choirs are very churchy are they not? That'd be the same as either sports or church in either case, depending.
Yes, "where are the people" is essentially my question. Some insist "literally everywhere, just do the thing and let em complain, fuck em" which seems to be the leading suggestion. Another dude said his area has singles hikes and shit so I'm gonna check that out too if my area does.
I'm with you brother, there's not one place within 100 miles of me that you can just sit and drink coffee and have a gay old time. There's about 30 of them.
Ah, but can you profess burgeoning romantic interest in your fellow patrons at those or are we back at the original "no that isn't appropriate to ask out a woman just trying to enjoy her coffee, either?"
At the 30 coffee shops near me it doesn't exactly seem encouraged, but if you insist, I'm willing to try. Even makes "can I buy you a coffee" easier since we're already there assuming it is appropriate.
The only rules are the ones you make playbooiiii
Ehh not buying that. By your logic I can just take what I want. Pretty sure that's called "crime" as it is against the "rules."
But I'll play along: Sure, and I've decided that as a rule I'd like to not be considered creepy, and as such am attempting to ask people out in a venue that won't make women uncomfortable or scared or whatever other negative attributes one pins on those seeking romantic partnerships outside of tinder or the liquor hut.
Sure, I could throw caution to the wind, say fuck it, be scared, think I'm creepy, eventually someone will get coffee with me," and it frankly seems like I'm at this last resort, so I may start, but I will feel skeevy when some girl is obviously like "I'm just trying to enjoy my work/the gym/hobbies/the store/coffee shop/school/park/etc."
I guess you may be right though at the end of the day, fuck em, a dude gotta eat. Them having negative feelings about it is a them problem I spose.
I mean no but kinda. One thing that's practically always going to be the case is that you're physically intimidating, and you should never shirk away from acknowledging that, and be comfortable with it. The trick is to look like a roller-coaster: Intimidating, sure, but it's not going to throw you around unless you get on and when you do, you'll still be safe.
I mean, it was a little hyperbolically stated lol. I don't mean actually be creepy of course.
But fair enough, "fuck it" it is! I don't really want to start drinking again which seems like my only other option lol.
I think you are overthinking it way too much. I'm just talking about the social norms. Who said anything about committing crimes??? Did you think I was talking about breaking the law? Wtf? You trying to grab a tit while you say hey? Just say what's up and if she doesn't bite, go to the next one. Don't get discouraged, it's all about getting out there and practicing but it sounds like you may have some social insecurities that need to be addressed first... playbooiiii LOL
Is what I was making a joke about. There are, in fact, "rules," being the crux of the joke.
But no I mean the fact that supposedly no woman wants men to say what's up anywhere but the bar, which I do not frequent, or the dating apps, which are spyware.
I think I'm starting to understand why you are having problems playbooiiii
Playboooooooioooii
I have never seen this actually happen and I have a lot of experience with gaming with randos (I'm old and I also started a gaming club in college that had over 75 members with at least 15 of them being female). I've been playing MTG and D&D at local shops for decades now and I've never once seen other dudes simping or fighting over a girl at the table.
Not saying it can't happen, nerds are nerds and do often lack social skills. But from my experience (and from what I've heard from my female gamer friends), this has got to be a rare situation.
I always have to remind myself that I was introduced to and raised in nerddom from my godmother. Everything was through the lens of her curated tastes.
So when I hit puberty later in life all the deranged horniness suddenly clicked in me as MY problem since for me it wasn't normalized. Playing D&D and MMOs just didn't have that foundation, so I could compare.
Thanks godmother for keeping me somewhat normal. I've been often alienated from gamers due to my application of basic respect and sometimes just plain apathy towards women.
Most women won't even accept a strange man into their activities. That's why you don't hear about this happening to men. Because unwanted sexual advances from women on men in women's friends circles definitely happen I can tell you from first hand experience. And women tend to be very insensitive to men's sexuality and not only encourage it but pressure you accept the advances because men "go for anything" so it shouldn't make a difference to you.
Regrettably, can confirm. I’ve been so much more docile since finding a partner. I wish I’d always been this way.
Would have been nice if more of the women in mmorpgs I played growing up were like that. Too many guilds were torn apart intentionally by women who damn well knew what they were doing and knew that at least one of your staff members was easy to twist around their fingers.
Edit: For anyone seething, women are people and they deserve respect like anyone else, but they are also people, and some of them are assholes.
Yeah this is the flipside to OP. Don't know why you're getting down voted. Women can be misanthropic trolls just as much as men can.
I was in a guild on a mmorpg that was predominantly women, and there was a squabble between a couple women.
I said, "Settle down, you both have very big penises." One responded, "Uh, were girls." I replied, "Then why are you having a dick measuring contest?" It didn't go over particularly well, but the bickering died down.
Knowing my luck they would both turn on me if I was in that situation.
I do appreciate how there's more women in online games now though. FFXIV has a lot of women, and it's great because I don't have to be that guy anymore and deal with identity politics if someone acts out. There will probably be another woman in the group who is equally annoyed by whatever bad behavior is going on and call it out.
It is nice to blame women for being manipulative and not the men for falling for the manipulation and causing the infighting, right?
/s
Everyone involved is at fault yeah. Don't know what you want me to say.
So it's better to victim blame then? Got it.
So..... victim blaming?
Never thought I'd sign up for socials again but you're an angry little misogynistic shit who happens to be so close to the truth.
You're not being downvoted because you're wrong. You're being downvoted because you came into a thread about women's issues and detracted from it for your own grievances. You say you respect women? Prove it by shutting the fuck up and listening when they speak about their problems without having to make everyone about yourself. Learn from this and maybe you'll become a more likeable person and you'll find a woman that wants to get on your dick.
Don't bother responding. I said everything that needed to be said, you'll either get it or you won't.
Women can also be assholes, deal with it. And don't gatekeep threads like this, it's annoying and stupid.
To think you "signed up for socials" just to try to white knight a hypothetical person, fuckin loser you've made this entire thread worse with your shitpost.
This is an online forum. You can't tell me not to respond or not to discuss something. Doing so isn't misogynism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the community this is posted in is not a women's exclusive space either.
You want to see misogynism? Go hunt down the guys who treat women like objects in the OP. I don't know what you want from me.
Now that you've signed up, you can now block users and communities. Dont forget to block me!
It's also about women entering men's spaces. Some people's experience is women causing the issue
We did it on purpose to protect our virginity. No girls allowed in the boy's club!
Source: I was there.
Well ok.
this happens to me constantly with girls as a man
huMON FEEEmaaale?!
Rules of acquisition number 30: There are no huMON feeeemales on the internet.
Rom would never
Some cases but not really, my friend group everyone maybe except 1 already has a significant other so no one bothers the girls. And we all play DotA 2 lmao
This is why men like men-only spaces.
And why "just find a group hobby to meet a girl" is such bullshit advice. I worry about making women feel uncomfortable when they're just out living their lives so the only place I have to actually reach out to anyone are the absolute atrocious hellholes that are online dating sites...
It's not exactly bullshit advice, it's just advice that is used in a bullshit way. The advice can work when you don't throw yourself at a potential SO and just treat them like a normal person and don't force it.
I've met multiple partners through groups like that, and it always started out as treating them like a real person, making a real friend connection, and then letting the relationship grow on its own. I've also watched dudes flame out trying to make a relationship out of nothing and wonder why girls get creeped out when no isn't accepted. I'd also be lying if I said I've never been that guy, but thankfully I got better and saw the error of my ways.
There's also another side to this where you're too passive. Since girls, and especially more introverted girls, will expect the man to be the driving force of the relationship, if you don't express interest and eventually shoot your shot, then even if she was interested in you she will just move on to someone else.
So you really have to be in touch with social queues in order to strike a balance between too pushy and too passive, which for groups that massively overprepresent the autistic and otherwise socially awkward is asking a lot.
Yup, been there done that. I’ve just resigned to the fact that the whole social cues thing is too much for my brain and I’ll just stick to the hobby and be friends with them unless I get really lucky and get to know a girl that’s simultaneously interested in me and willing to make the first move.
100%. It's funny you mention that, as that was the situation with my first partner/wife. We ended up being close friends for a few years and I didn't take my shot because I didn't want to ruin the relationship, but thankfully one of her friends pushed the two of us together and we've been happily married for years.
My situation is also funny because I did a similar thing with my 2nd partner/our girlfriend. Though thankfully she was confident enough to make the first move, I wasn't going to risk the friendship even though I knew we were all poly. But in either case, it was always friends first, then light flirting that only increases as it was reciprocated.
Ultimately, our system has evolved over millions of years and our culture builds on top of the basic instincts. Optimal sexual strategy for humanity has long been that men push as hard as fuck even if it means a lot of us don’t make it. We can do this because male sperm is cheap and plentiful.
So civilization has adopted cultural standards that are extremely harsh on men to the point of destroying some of us. To make an analogy, our culture has a grading curve for men that is designed to fail 60% of us.
This is called “male disposability” and while MRAs take it as a grievance, it’s really just a fact of the world. It’s right up there with childbirth and externally-kickable balls as one of the facts of life.
Why am I talking about culture being a gauntlet in this way? Because men often complain about how our cultural rules not making it possible to mate without breaking any of the rules. Like in this thread: “I’m damned if I make a move on her because then I’m a creep, and I’m damned if I don’t because women expect men to take the initiative. So what the fuck?”
Well, culture isn’t a video game that’s balanced to ensure players have a way to win. That’s what I’m saying. Culture is a game, a game that evolved to win wars against nature and other human settlements. And it is a game that’s been balanced.
Unfortunately for those who cut their teeth on video games, culture is not balanced to be playable. It’s balanced to eliminate 60% of the players.
And one of the ways that extremely difficult “weed-out” mechanic works is that a man who plays by all the rules he is given, loses. If he does everything he is told to do, he loses the game. That is by design. Probably because some great unconscious information processing mechanism that selects our rules to win wars and survive into the future, knows that men who are perfectly obedient are poison to the group’s long-term survival.
Basically what the whole interface is telling you, is that what we need you to be is capable of doing the right thing based on your own judgment, not based on minimizing the degree to which you get in trouble or get chastised by people.
So we’ve made a game you can’t win, unless you’re willing to stop trying to stay out of trouble. Because if that’s all you’ve got — following orders and avoiding conflict — the next generation doesn’t need your genes.
Doubt this would work if the individual is not attractive.
Depends on your standards of 'attractiveness' and that of the people you associate with. I don't consider myself that attractive, but I've had multiple women make the first move on me after treating them like normal people and getting to know them as friends. That sort of behavior has its benefits :)
But I might be a special case, in that my proclivities mean I hang out in circles where women know they can feel safe to make moves without dudes being dudebros or have any expectation of 'the implication' being in play.
Men’s attractiveness is not very reliant on looks. Men are attractive to women mostly when they are successful and prosocial. So by getting out and improving his social skills, a man changes his own level of attractiveness.
Even the texture of the body changes with social status. Your postures get more attractive. Your body fills with the hormones that make your every action sexier. Heck, women find muscles attractive.
A man’s level of attractiveness is basically malleable. Any man who’s thinking of himself as “ugly” is just giving himself cover to give up on improving himself.
That's the thing - You say that like being prosocial is malleable property, but imo it is even more difficult to change than appearance.
Sad you're getting downvoted for saying the truth, but I've met plenty of dudes who can't wrap their heads around this. But as a dude who is pretty far from 'conventional attractiveness', you're 100% right.
I had similar feelings about myself in my teenage years, and it led to me doing all kinds of behaviors that self-sabotaged any interest women had in me (and led to a really toxic relationship in high school). But "surprisingly", after I gave up on the stereotypical proto-dudebro/PUA behavior and focused on myself, I ended up making a few really cool female friends and that's literally why I have a wife lol. Improving myself mentally (I was fat af at that time) led to finding a LTR before I did any work to get to a reasonable weight. After shedding that weight, I've since had multiple relationships that were started by the woman instead of me. Hell, our current girlfriend made the first moves for our relationship too lol.
Men have to make relationships happen. If they do not directly and obviously show interest and intent on pursuing a person they're interested in, they will never have any sort of relationships. Ever.
lol
Out of the 5 relationships I've been in maybe two were ones that I initiated, and I don't even consider myself to be that attractive. I've just had much better luck being a real person that someone wanted to like and letting things naturally develop than I ever did with that kind of behavior. In fact, some of the most cringey behavior of mine that I can remember is me directly and obviously showing interest in women who (looking back) clearly had no interest in me.
I think you're allowed to flirt within your hobbies, but only if it's reciprocal
but before it can be reciprocated, you need to flirt.
so you're never allowed to flirt, because you can't flirt until you've been flirted back. And they can't flirt until they've been flirted at.
Catch 22.
I mean that’s the whole point of flirting. You establish a rapport and read the social cues to see if there’s reciprocation. Smiles, eye contact, etc. The problem of course, is misreading.
but HonoraryManacian said it's only allowed if it's reciprocated.
it's not allowed because it can't be reciprocated until after you do it.
I mean there’s a large category of conversation that can lead to further flirtation without being considered initial flirtation. That’s the whole point, escalating socially acceptable requests.
I think that's the biggest things several people keep missing. It isn't that flirting is forbidden. Flirting should be worked up to, and should be stopped immediately if the other person isn't interested.
Just like racing, if you try to gun it right off the line you're most likely just gonna lose traction and smoke your tires out. You gotta ease onto the throttle and ease off it if you start losing control.
I don't like racing so no idea why I chose that analogy.
There is nowhere that those people want you to meet people. They just want your (valid ) grievances with how much dating is shit to get out of their sight.
Find a hobby used to be 'get out of the damned house and be sociable, you will find not being weird makes you more likely to socialise with women and gain dates." Even the neckbeardiest of nerds would find it worked.
Then the 4-chan twats broke containement.
So it’s bullshit advice because you see yourself as so toxic that your meeting a girl, or going to social spaces to meet a girl, is somehow violating her ability to live her own life?
I think maybe the bullshit advice is from whoever told you to see yourself as a villainous monster whose desire to find a mate is a source of social toxicity.
You’re a human being, with the same right to be here as everyone else. It is not inherently violent for you to meet or even seek to meet sexual partners.
Ok, I hear you on that, but.....
It doesn't really fix the problem, does it? Sure, the guys don't end up distracted by someone with female physical characteristics, but when they interact with those people later, they're still socially inept, creepy guys.
Which isn't to mention it basically excludes any women from participating, which isn't very fair to the women who would appreciate the opportunity to join, limiting their options for positive interactions.
It can also reinforce the negative behavior, since they're probably forced into those spaces because any space that isn't men-only, they've made so awkward and uncomfortable for the women that they've been asked to leave. So a nontrivial number of these problematic people are going to be funneled into men-only types of spaces, and they'll play off of eachother incel opinions, producing a confirmation bias that's hard to dispel.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm a guy, and I was the creepy dude in my younger years. I tried to be more subtle about it, but I recognize a lot of the incel opinions as opinions I once had or at least considered. I broke out of it through having some rather strong female friends who very bluntly told me when something wasn't okay. After a while of that, I realized that if you look past gender, and just treat everyone basically the same in all circumstances and don't be a fucking incel, then you can actually develop friendships with people regardless of their gender, and, as I discovered, once you're friendly with someone who you find attractive who also is fond of you, it can turn into more than just friendship. Once I put these pieces together, my entire life improved.
By essentially labeling them as a problem and putting them into their own little echo chamber, it will likely make the problem worse, not better.
I mean, social ineptitude might not be something that can be rectified.
Maybe in some, but it can. Source: was incel neckbeard in college. Was rehabilitated.
The problem is like with any person and their flaws, they have to actually be convinced it's a flaw, and then they have to actually want to fix it, which getting there is usually the hard part.
Ah, sorry. I should stop assuming one is (semi-) autistic alike mine. For me, the autism has been main barrier for fluidic communications.
The post is from a women’s perspective about men and the way they can make a woman feel.
Just have weird kinks like necrophilia most living beings stop it at that point.
(you don't need to actually have necrophilia, just play that you have it)
Imagine how hard it could backfire if you meet someone who wants to have kinky sex with you since you share the same kink.
Or just come across someone who is enough of a dipshit to decide to ruin your reputation after you reject them.
So like what that person would have to kill themselves to fulfil the kink? Bit extreme, innit?
I feel like one person could just play dead and not react at all during sex.
... In fact, that sounds very familiar :(
I don't think thats good. And Noone should actually have that kink.
See vagina, must fuck
Yeah hormones are persnickity things when youre trying to be one of the guys
I mean, is it trying to be one of the guys, or is it simply enjoying a hobby that is predominantly male? There’s a big difference between a pickme and someone who simply enjoys a hobby.
I took that as "trying to get along/fit in, with a predominately male group".
It would seem that you took it as more of "trying to get 'in' with a boys club".
I don't think either interpretation is wrong, per-se, but one does have a bit of a more negative tone to it, IMO.
Far be it for me to tell you what to think, or that your understanding is wrong. Bluntly, it was a fairly poor choice of words on the commenters part.
They responded to my comment, basically directly confirming my interpretation.
That's fair. Maybe I'm just too optimistic.
If youreplaying with a bunch of males, yeah youre working on fitting in which makes you one of them
What is it about role-playing that's strictly masculine? Like, why does the group have to be gendered?
Not a psychologist so cant say. Just one of those things guys find attractive and want to be involved in. Appeals to our drive for adventure would be my guess
Men will literally blame anything but themselves for their own behavior. Wild.
Right because no woman ever has ever blamed hormones for her behavior
When you go to play games with your friends, do you feel bad when none of them try to get you to suck their dicks and let them fuck you?
I'm willing to bet you don't, because it's actually weird to feel sad about not getting unwelcome sexual advances in a friendly, unromantic context.
It's crazy, but hear me out: most women don't want to be hit on when they're just going about their lives.
So you’re saying there’s a chance?
Women are not entitled to platonic relationships with men. And men like myself do get unwanted sexual advances from gay men and it's not the end of the world. You just respectfully decline, while understanding they have feeling too and that they're in a quite vulnerable position having hit on you.
Just because an unwanted sexual advance made you feel really bad doesn't make it bad. You're feelings do not define reality.
Jesus christ you belong on a list for that first sentence
I belong on a list because I don't think women are entitled to my time and love? Spoken like a true narcissist.
Just hook them up with your single friends. Or find a female only group.
I could never feel sexually attracted to a nerdy girl. They’re somehow even grosser than boys
I think it's one of God's hilarious jokes that women have what men wish they had (lots of people who want to have sex with them) but the women don't want it. They should trade places with me - no one is trying to sleep with me...
holy shit not even batman could get me to post this
I'm gonna steal this. But I won't tell anyone I did, not even Batman.
He already knows.
Damn, I'm not good at being a crook.
Women really like sex so there’s probably something else going on that you aren’t talking about.
Appearance? Height? (Not talking about OP, am rather talking in general)
I’ve met short/ugly and short ugly people who are able to pull in lots of women with their sense of humour and personality.
The numbers don't tend to bear that out, and in any case, even the example you cite doesn't, because it's implying that the men who are short and ugly are having to be more humorous and have more depth than their tall beautiful counterparts.
I think oftentimes when people complain about this sort of thing they kind of just need someone to empathize with them rather than tell them that oops life's not fair time to suck it up crybaby, which is generally seen as a callous dickish response but any other issue. Not to say that's what you're saying, but I've seen that sort of response be pretty common when people sort of, make the point that being tall and good looking will make you more likely to "score", or get a date or whatever.
I’m confused, are you saying the people I know don’t exist?
No, I'm saying they're not a great indicator of how people tend to be perceived, and people tend to be complaining about the trends, rather than the outliers. Also that, if you know short and ugly people who are funnier and have better personalities than their taller and handsomer counterparts, and who have had romantic success, that would kind of prove the idea that uglier, shorter people need to work harder correct.
I could probably also explain this with the friendship paradox, which I think I cited recently for a similar thing someone was citing as example.
You are overthinking what I said.
Interesting, I've not seen those - rather, the perception that if a beauty is dating an ugly, then clearly the ugly is rich and the beauty is just trying to take the money (and possibly flee later).
Please delete this for ur own good.
No, leave it. It makes a great example in case anybody hasn't gotten the problem yet.
Gee I wonder why. 🙄
I think it's the Illuminati. Or chem trails! It MUST be some outside reason, no way it's a personal thing.
I blame the gay frogs the CIA created to try to take down communism.
Women want to get laid also, just with people superior than you
Try not being emotionally repulsive.
There are people who would like to sleep with you, you just have to have low enough standards
I bet that's not how things work.
Have you tried praying to your god to trade places?
If I only could🎵
The number of people who can't tell this is a joke makes it so much funnier.