Bill to make marrying your first cousin illegal in Tennessee passes but not without a fight
https://www.wsmv.com/2024/04/11/bill-make-marrying-your-first-cousin-illegal-tennessee-passes-not-without-fight/Open linkView original on lemmy.world453
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Wtf dude lmao.
These guys REALLY want to fuck close family lmao.
"My daddy fucked the shit out of mah sister momma, just like his daddy cousin did to his momma! And ba GAWD I'm gonna fuck my cousin!!" - Jim Bob Smith Senator.
banjo music intensifies
No they are clearly just into Crusader kings roleplay. The worst family title I ever saw in CK3 was cousin grandfather father brother husband.
What's your point?
We're literally saying it makws no sense that this ban would get pushback. The fact so many other states allow it just makes the point.
Americans are weird when it comes to cousins..
Why does it matter who’s fucking who?
Aren’t we in the middle of a big ass motherfucking fight for people to be able to be with who they want to be with, minus adults and children?
To prevent abuse, and to limit the chances of children being born with serious medical problems they will have to suffer with for the rest of their life.
Risk of genetic defects from cousins is very small, on par with a woman giving birth over age 30.
And "to prevent abuse"? We already have lots of laws to address that.
Stop telling people who they're allowed to sleep with.
dude, stop trying to fuck your cousin. it's not cool.
And it's not your business, or the government's business.
Besides, not my fault you got uggo cousins
Inbreeding
The point is to call out stereotypes.
When the fuck did we start being pro stereotype?
This is another big fight that I remember us being in the middle of right now.
If those states allow first cousin marrying then yeah, that’s cousin fucker states.
Most of the world doesn’t live in the states man, did you think naming other states was going to offend people? You guys and all your weird hillbilly sex stuff need to get your shit together man. It’s embarrassing to see.
It's legal in most of the world, including most of Europe. I don't think legality is necessarily the greatest guide for how often it actually happens or social attitudes towards it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage
There's a map in there too of prevalence though and United States isn't anywhere close to the most prevelant, it's extremely rare. What's going on down in Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Belgium though?
Ya know, there’s definitely some towns where I’m from that have shallow gene pools, not gonna lie. But I live in Alberta, we’re sometimes the Texas of Canada, and sometimes the Alabama.
Yeah. Pretty much everything south of Calgary and north of Edmonton is Alabama. I’ve lived in every city in the province, and worked in a lot of the towns. It’s pretty crazy in some of the towns here man.
Holy crap, am I reading this right? In Pakistan, more than 50% of marriages are between cousins??
That chart technically includes second degree cousins and any closer relations. So if you don't count second degree cousins it might be less. But yeah there's a tradition of parellel cousin marriage especially in parts of the middle east, north Africa, and south Asia.
Yeah I actually knew that one from when I used to listen to Joe Rogan and Gavin Mcinnes was on there. He's a fucking goof but that fact was disturbing
Dunno about Belgium but Italy, Spain and Portugal have quite communal family structures, at least by European standards. Not necessarily in the living together sense but in the you'll definitely see the whole extended shebang every other holiday sense.
You read any classic novels from England? Marrying cousins is quite normal at one point in human history. I guess it still is in some backward states.
It's not just England. Marrying cousins was considered common practice among royalty and nobles in the past, not "normal" for everyday people.
They would inbreed to try to keep blood "pure", or to keep the family in power, or to sell off their family for power. People knew a long time ago this was bad and caused health problems, but the rich kept doing it because theyre egoistical maniacs.
We don't have monarchs and royalty anymore, we can do away with inbreeding completely. The fact some conservatives still defend it is ridiculous.
I'm from Alabama. This shit happens.
Except it’s actually illegal and all of those places, and has been for a long time.
No it's legal in those places they listed, the down voted person is right about that part.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage_law_in_the_United_States
Convenient map here if you're curious where it is and isn't legal.
Not saying I agree with their attitude though.
Guy has a valid point about the justification given for the bill, not to mention that not every couple that gets married will be having biological children between them. Not just limited to gay couples, infertile people and people who choose not to have kids get married too.
I'm good with socially discouraging cousins who grew up together getting married, but legal restrictions based on flawed logic is not a good idea.
What about extended family members that you've never met in your entire life? Obviously procreation is still insanely gross here and we should outlaw it, but like you said not all relations between a heterosexual couple lead to children.
If your family doesn't have a history of consanguination then first cousins marrying every few generations is no big deal, genetically. You share about 5% of your genes with any random first cousin, compared to 2.5% with any random stranger. You should still seek generic counseling, you never know what secrets you might find
Republicans sure do seem to think you have the right to marry who ever you love when it comes to incest and pedophilia but not LGBTQ.
Good job living up to stereotypes, Tennessee.
^ This dude wants to fuck his cousin so fucking badly.
It's called projection, Lunchbox. You doing a whole theaters worth right now lmao.
Who cares?
Oh go back to Twitter, Ben Shapiro.
I rest my case.
Yeah brother all those liberal politicians defending child marriage too
You are completely devoid of both logic and reason
We're not talking about child marriage.
This is just another bigoted conservative with an agenda. He's using this no-brainer anti-cousin-fucking law to push anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. Gino Bulso was a lawyer for just shy of 40 years before joining the Tennessee House of Reps in 2022. He knows this isn't a reasonable argument and he doesn't care. He's just trying to attack Obergefell v. Hodges. He's basically saying "See what *the gays* are making me vote against?! I don't want to allow cousin-fucking but Obergefell v. Hodges says we have to! Trust me, I'm a lawyer!"
Edit: JFC nothing brings out the weirdos as quickly as an article about a ban on cousin-fucking.
He's a Tennessee Republican so I'm sure he's terrible. But you don't think there is a legal argument of a law being overly broad that restricts the rights of same sex couples where the legislative history shows it was based on increased risk of genetic mutations in pregnancy?
Maybe (probably) he's saying it to beat on LGBTQ people, but a broken clock and all that.
I am not willing to give republicans the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their invocations of Obergefell v. Hodges to defend cousin-fucking. If you'd like to that's your prerogative. But doing so is completely unearned on their part and suggests naivety on yours.
I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. Blatant homophobe or no, it's a valid legal argument that hasn't been tested in court.
Edit: Unless you have some caselaw already addressing this that I'm not aware of, I'm pretty sure we're having two completely different conversations.
Or - mind blowing possibility - maybe you're bigoted against cousin marriage like the people you hate are bigoted against gay marriage.
The risk of genetic defects is extremely small. People don't like it because it's icky, which is not logically consistent. People used to think interracial marriage was icky.
Let people do what they want.
If your first response to a valid point is to attack the other person, then you're worse than anything inbreeding might produce.
TWO hot cousins, thank you very much
But my point is still correct.
Too late, they both got married to other people and are very happy😔
Yeah, I don't get it, personally. I'm really not a fan of governments telling people who they can fall in love with. You'd think there's more important issues to deal with.
I mean, I know people who's parents are cousins. It's literally a non-issue I couldn't give less of a fuck since they all seem happy. It's none of my, or the government's, business.
That said, it is weird, the lack of logic that goes on around this issue. It's simply wrong because it's wrong so it's therefore good for the government to make laws prohibiting it.
if both are consenting adults it shouldn't be illegal. maybe there's benefit to genetic counseling if there's intent or possibility to have children, but it shouldn't be illegal with or without that.
There are 8 billion people on this planet now. Surely you can find someone other than your cousin.
It really shouldn't need to be illegal, but I guess residents of the volunteer state require a little more incentive to find dates before the holidays, rather than during them.
wasn't talking about myself, which shouldn't need to be pointed out, but here we are.
It's shouldn't be the role of government to regulate who you want to marry.
But also don't do that
Most on Lemmy and other lefty spaces are of the "two consenting adults can do what they want" mind but take an inconsistent turn on this, seemingly because it's "icky" to them.
How is that any different than conservatives being anti-gay because it's "icky" to them?
It's not because it's "icky", it's because if you both have the same grandma then you only have one snickerdoodle recipe for Christmas cookies, genetically speaking.
As stated several times in this thread, the risk of genetic issues is akin to that of a 40+ year old woman having kids.
It would seem consistent to also ban that if that is your actual issue, right? So, is that what you’re suggesting?
I never called for a ban. I said maybe go out and explore the forest before climbing up the family tree. And it's my understanding that most women understand the risk of procreating after 40 and typically avoid it.
But I'm not your daddy. You don't need my approval to fuck your uncle's kids.
You said,
I took this to mean that those who don't voluntarily choose to not marry/have sex with their cousins need to be forced not to by law (a ban). Did I misread that?
It's absolutely true though
The just world fallacy is about people getting what they deserve.
That doesn't seem to really apply to the statistical argument that there are enough people out there, the chance for any given individual to not have any shot is effectively (if perhaps not precisely) zero. Small enough to not be worth considering.
Sure. But I don't think anyone else is suggesting everyone deserves a relationship.
I don't see how that fallacy is relevant here though
...?
do you have anything actually to say?
Same line of reasoning, just 50 years ago.
We shouldn't ban consenting adult relationships solely because they are icky.
are you seriously comparing marrying a black person with marrying your first cousin
Yes. Explain the difference, if you can.
No, I want you to explain your reasoning, you're the one who made it. please explain how marrying a black person is just like marrying your first cousin.
There's nothing objectively wrong with either one. Both have been banned because they gross people out for purely social (bigoted) reasons.
Incorrect. One results in higher than normal birth defects that exacerbate over time, and one is perfectly healthy. We, as a society, should try to limit birth defects, no? Are you also in favor of bringing back thalidomide?
Genetically, first cousins are fine. It does slightly increase some risks, I think doubles at most for some very low likelihood cases. I don't know that it's any more irresponsible than reproducing with someone that has a family history of genetically passed diseases.
Humans were tribal until very recently, and reproducing with non-immediate relatives was normal. If it were that detrimental, we would not have survived as a species.
And no, my wife is not remotely related to me.
Not even remotely implied or relevant
I feel like this is just an extension of the "my child, my property" mindset that republicans have. Sure, like others have argued, there might be cases of 25 year-olds genuinely falling in love with first cousins and the whole goverment-shouldn't-regulate-love thing; but the vast majority of these cases are going to be home-schooled together groomed kids who parents fear having romantic relations outside the family might introduce them to non-conservative or non-religious viewpoints which might break their narcissistic control over their kids lives.
Honestly, it's not that big a deal unless it happens for multiple generations. There is enough genetic difference between first cousins for it to not count as inbreeding.
I would recommend against it if there is a significant risk of genetic diseases being passed down, but that's true even for any two random people.
Honestly, if it’s consensual I don’t care just let women have control of their own bodies and keep their damn religion out of government. They can have cousin-fucking just leave minorities and LGBTQ+ alone.
Take me to another place
Take me to another land
Let me fuck my cousin firstly
Let me understand her clam
Tennessee, Tennessee
Arrested Development does not approve. Such a underrated hiphop group. They lived together communally for a bit!
But I am still thirsty.
Most of the world actually has legal marriage between first cousins. In many places it's not even taboo. And on top of that, the chances of genetic issues with it are actually pretty small. It's multiple generations of first cousins having kids where it becomes a problem.
Apparently this taboo got started as thing by the Catholic Church during the medieval ages as some kind of property inheritance thing. I can't remember the details. I remember watching a whole video that argued this anti-cousin marriage thing is where the West got it hyper individualism from, compared to the rest of the world, but I can't find it now.
Shelbyville Manhattan approves 👍
Everybody hold up, new kink jus dropped
Gotta have that Habsburg jawline 😍
In Germany it is still legal to fuck your cousin. Fucking your sister is technically illegal, but carries no punishment when both are under the age of 18.
Source: §173 StGB
https://youtu.be/2wbSGVyTAS8
I know everyone is like "haha cousin fuckers."
But really, do we want the government to pass laws restricting who we can and cannot marry?
I can't help but notice the overlap with LGBT rights. I'm pretty sure I'd prefer them to not pass this law.
Like, from a legal and philosophical perspective, why is it OK for the government to restrict this? Why wouldn't that same argument apply to gay men getting married?
Can you elaborate a little? Like do you mean that if LGBTQ is accepted, first cousins are meant to be accepted as well?
This isn't about "acceptance" in the social sense. I'm not saying you have to accept cousin fuckers in your community.
I'm more worried about the legal framework. If it is legal to outlaw this, why is it illegal to outlaw gay marriage? Like, that doesn't seem ideologically consistent.
Well, we also can't let communities discriminate like that...you say you're "not saying you have to accept [them] in your community regardless of legal status" but I'm assuming you don't feel loke people should be able to chase other types of minorities out of town if they don't approve. That's kinda the whole point of law - to set the rules for how we treat each other. I haven't thought enough about this particular topic to know how I feel about it. I see the state's interest in reducing incestuous births, and I'm definitely not ok with the state making reproductive choices for people more generally.
What's really disgusting is that I bet the entire reason they're even debating this is because they don't want to allow any exemption from their abortion ban.
I'm intentionally trying to separate the social discrimination problem from the legal problem, and to not make a comment about the former.
I guess I get that the state has an interest in preventing incestuous birth, but marriage is orthogonal sex.
Rationally speaking, yes. The religious right seem to feel differently.
I've noticed people on both sides are cool with laws that hurt others.
Ex: We see plenty of pot smokers supporting banning nicotine products.
Liberals aren't immune to this just like conservatives. Most people are shit :(
nah dude. one thing hurts you and has severe impacts on your health. Inbreeding and lung cancer don't have "both sides" of an argument. they're bad.
That's the amendment that was rejected.
As a Texan I’m not sure if I should thank Tennessee for making us seem a little less horrible or curse them for taking attention away from our bat-shittery.
God damn east coast woke liberal infiltraitors trying to stop me from picking up women and getting some poon at the family reunion.
You fucken jest, but there are people in this thread actually arguing that point. They’re just doing it through bad faith means like pretending this issue is at all similar to gay marriage.
Cousin fuckers are not a marginalized group. Anyone telling you different is trying to sell you an ideology.
Alabama got the monopoly now
Topical fact of the day: Both Einstein and Darwin married their first cousins.
Edgar Allen Poe as well.
When she was 13.
With issues like misplaced paternity, people should be dna tested before they marry, anyway. Your first cousin might not actually be your first cousin, and the stranger you meet on the street might actually be family. I’m just saying.
Tennessee has done a lot to outdo Florida as a shitshow lately.
I can’t tell what you mean by that.
Are you talking about them trying to outlaw it or about them trying to stop it being outlawed?
Everything I read about them is awful and backwards.
This is common in arab countries
All the fuckers in here pretending they actually believe “love is love” just so they can use it as a cudgel against the absolute monsters who think incest is wrong.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Go have your bad faith arguments somewhere else.
something something alabama, something something, it's now tennessee.
It's legal in Finland. It's pretty damn rare. I wouldn't consider it a hugely shocking thing though, cousins usually aren't very close here. Would make for weird family relations though.
Because, who the fuck cares?
Apparently a lot of people here actually care. It's so insane that people still want to regulate who others can fall in love with/marry.
I wish we'd just end all the benefits that come with marriage. I don't actually know why it's still encouraged by the government. It made sense for religions to push for people to get married but why should our government be designed in a way where it matters so much and there's so many incentives to marry?
there is no incentive to marry? you don't get a tax break or anything, that's just for having kids.
Off the top of my head, I can recall some of the reasons people made for same-sex marriage is that hospitals wouldn't allow gay couples to see each other in emergency rooms because their marriage wasn't recognized. Another one, not sure how it works, is what happens when your spouse dies. I don't think their property would automatically go to their spouse unless it was explicitly spelled out in their will.
Cousin fuckers: Gino Bulso & Monty Fritts
Step son/daughter or sibling? Is that in the laws yet?
Why should it be illegal to have a relationship with someone you're only related to by law? I mean yeah, naturally this will rarely ever happen and it's kinda weird to think about, but something being weird is hardly a reason to ban it.
Logically only the same reason you couldn't have a relationship with first cousins. Inbreeding isn't exactly a problem for first cousins, they're genetically different enough for it to not have much of an affect until multiple generations of it (plus same-sex people, sterile people, people who just won't have kids), so the only plausible argument for it is "marriages between family members are more likely to be from grooming/manipulation/abuse". Which I don't think is flawless reasoning to make it illegal, same thing could be said about many other perfectly legal types of relationships. But it is a reason.
That's a fair point actually. Sometimes I forget how fucked up some people are. A ban would not necessarily help tho, because you can reverse or overturn an adoption under certain circumstances. So you could still groom all you want and then try to convince your adoptive child to leave the family and marry into it again (or maybe even force them somehow).
I think probing for grooming/wellbeing of the child might be a better way to handle this overall.
It's actually extremely common, some guys will even be with hundreds of step sisters! Of course I get this knowledge from porn, but that's not my point.
Does that mean i have to fight my cousin before i can marry them?