Private chat app using wifi only. No SIM available
My niece has an old iphone with no SIM/phone number. Only wifi internet access.
Looking for an app for both of us to be able to chat
She cant chat with me over signal because no phonee number. She chats with the rest of the family over imessage, but i have an android phone
Is there an app available for both android and iphone to let me chat with her?
Thanks
Edit: willing to self-host for extra privacy. My nieces and nephews are all young children so i definitely want to encourage/educate them to get off corporate controlled communications channels
Matrix / element
To expand with my personal experience, I self host a synapse server partly for the reason that i want my children (aged 8-14 now) to have a communication platform they can access to get ahold of me with out requireing a sim card. I do not federate, and i do not allow account sign ups. That keeps a pretty isolated instance while still allowing everyone on that homeserver to be able to talk to each other.
I help them get Element setup on each device. I dont think this is overly complicated, but i am sure i am a horrible judge of complexity... They have to enter the url of the server, then their password, then they need to scan a qr code/verify from an existing device. Or, they need to enter a second passcode to verify their identity. I help them keep those secrets in bitwarden, so imo, that complexity is an opportunity to explain some opsec and encryption!
This
That gets really complicated with room keys and stuff though. So it's not particularly user friendly.
Jabber (XMPP) or Matrix/Element.
Https://snikket.org will get you started with XMPP easily.
Conversations on Android and Siskin on iOS.
One non-techie parent has Siskin running on their iPhone and it hasn't skipped a beat in years of messaging using omemo-encrypted XMPP. For servers, they're on tigase.im and I'm on conversations.im.
Here's a guide on optimum siskin settings; I don't know if defaults are better now or not.
Conversations.im is free on fdroid but it's well worth paying something to the developer directly.
My friends and I all use Simplex and have been very happy. There's an annoying feature where messages in group chats are sometimes delivered out of order, but it's easy enough to live with.
"I remember my uncle, he used to force us to use some janky app to talk to him because he was afraid of the big corporations spying on him"
Except they literally do. It's even acknowledged in the mainstream media.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/16/technology/snowden-spying-big-tech.html
Sadly, I agree.
Oh so that's why you don't have a brain chip lma.... (wait 5 seconds to skip ad)... o
SimpleX.
Try SimpleX chat.
Edit: or session
https://simplex.chat/ is probably the best option today
The app is great and the server is very easy to self host.
Matrix would be good ig.
XMPP.
Threema.
Matrix.
You can use a voip/sms service to register with the traditional messaging apps: signal, telegram, etc
I.e. google voice, or https://kycnot.me/search?q=sms&type=
Though I think :
Matrix, simplex, and briar are good options that don't need sms at all
Threema.
It costs $5 dollars, so you’re less likely to be the product. Highly private. Includes some open source code. Audited. Android and iOS. Doesn’t require phone number.
Here are the settings I recommend during first setup: Tap next instead of making a Threema Safe password Tap next instead of entering your phone number Turn off “Sync contacts”
Signal v7 with username IDs is right around the corner. I'd suggest you wait a few weeks if you can.
I'd love to see data to the contrary, but I believe even with username IDs, they will still want phone number verification. I.e. like telegram does
We'll see in a few weeks time; hence my recommendation to wait a little ;)
It has been in beta for a while now and it still does require a SIM for registration.
deleted by creator
https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/compare/bd3b77928251a632390d664e2c97723335e1edb4...5cf8242ea0096fe1ab2c75f54005bef616d69beb
"Update UI for PNP launch megaphone." is pretty unmistakable ;)
We don't know how long it'll be exactly but "a few weeks" is a good assumption here.
FYI, last week someone saw that Signal merged in code for username (no phone number) support. So it might not be long until you see a beta release which allows you to sign up without a phone number.
I've used a self hosted Nextcloud for that. It's not great but it worked well enough that I didn't bother looking for better alternatives. I'm sure there are more options out there.
Hmmmm.. I already have a nextcloud instance running... This is probably the most frictionless option for me...
I'll look into NC talk on iphone for her. Thanks!
If it's for text chat, you can also use a web browser.
With Signal you only need a SIM card to register the account via the Signal app on the phone. You can receive the SMS for registering on another phone. After registering you can simply use Signal over WiFi. If this is too difficult, XMPP with a good OMEMO client for E2EE is an option. Easiest to install and start with is perhaps DeltaChat, E2EE chat via email : https://delta.chat/en/ You only need to learn what to do if the E2EE is not working right away. They have a FAQ and hints in the app.
if you use textfree, you can probably register on signal with a fake-as-fuck phone number. but i think textfree requires a valid phone number for that.
very sucky to have to do all that.
jisti, nextcloud talk, element matrix ...go big: IRC
Would be so cool if my kids and nieces/nephews used IRC!!
You can also try Jami.
https://jami.net/
Use caution as there hasn't been a security audit
I was going to recommend Tox, but I don't think there have been any iPhone clients with up-to-date development for years.
I'm aware of the community this is posted in, but my kid talks to her grandparents via the chat features in Google photos. Works over WiFi with specific contacts and no phone number required. It lets her show them pictures she's drawn.
Google are involved of course, but there's no algorithm pushing promoted posts or any of that BS
Wow, I am so so much against your suggestion, but I have to upvote you, for your bravery.
To add something constructive: The app Element as a Matrix client works good for me.
It's like $100 for a whole year of phone service through someone like RedPocket (an MVNO, which uses AT&T and T-Mobile towers; so - any GSM phone)
I think Signal is close to being able to be used without a phone number.
Signal is no longer requiring phone numbers as of V7, so you could just wait for that to get released.
Still need a phone number to register. Then after that, you can give out your username to others without revealing your phone number
Session, but if you're really paranoid ofc.
100%
AND their file sending is centralized
If you want to use imessage on android:
https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-use-imessage-android/
(includes self-hosting options)
If you want to use whatsapp:
If someone else has an old (and/or prepay) sim which can receive texts, you can authenticate whatsapp that way. IRC you can also authenticate with a landline. Install whatsapp using the landline number, wait for SMS authentication to fail, then it should ask to call you. Say yes, and you'll get a call with the authentication code. Et voila.
Good luck with that, is all I can say. Kids are very susceptible to peer pressure, especially as they enter their teen years. It's only when they're in their late teens that they'll open up again and start becoming more critical.
Buy an iPhone.
Yeah, yeah. I know. You may not like it (or do it) but you asked for options and it’s an option.
This.
https://briarproject.org/
Unfortunately it's android only I think.
WTH dude.. You can send letters. Unfortunately it's IRL only and isn't at all what you asked for
Briar fits the requirements.
No need for sms. Works over the internet, wifi only, or Bluetooth. As long as everyone has android it's a great option.
That being said simplex is probably the right answer here, but no reason to antagonize the person who suggested a valid option.
How can it be a valid option when it is only available on android and the reason why OP is having this issue, is that the niece is on an iPhone?
That's a very cogent message, thank you for writing it. I now understand your concern. I had missed the iphone requirement
Telegram will allow her to use a virtual numberSorry, I didn't know
I don't want to assume the worst but why are you trying to privately communicate with a minor? You really should include a second adult preferably there parent.
You are just asking for trouble
Uhm... Because my niece asked me yesterday if she could message me on her phone.
When i say "private" i mean not hosted/harvested by facebook or google or whatever.
My brother has full acess to the device and can read our messages. Also, he is well aware that she is messaging her aunts and uncles
Proceeds to assume the absolute worst
Child abuse is a serious issue in the US. I always try to encourage good practices. I didn't mean to accuse you of doing something unethical
I would still encourage getting the parents to join the same chat just for liability reason. If the child's parent is in the group chat the risks go way down.
You can create a new group chat in Simplex Chat and then you can turn off disappearing messages and add the child and the parent.
That is very bad advice for people knowing and trusting each other.
Abuse almost always comes from a person who is trusted by the family. Often they are a close friend.
Trust but verify
Hehehehe, how we came here, if somebody wants to message their niece that doesn't have a sim card then that somebody is doing something bad 😆
(Sarcasm) 100% somebody isn't using SMS or fb messanger that somebody is a terrorist, extremist, child abuser, and drug user
C'mon, somebody is asking for software advice, just mentioning that it would be cool to educate the kids how to use private services
And even if somebody might be doing something shady, you can't really accuse or suspect somebody, this is really dark of you to suspect everyone around you and starting a witch hunt 😂😂😂
I'd say the same thing about SMS or any other communication including in person. If you always keep two adults present you are much less likely to have problems
Idk, sounds really dark, not trusing your family is really dystopian
Its just a matter of policy. It doesn't need to be that dystopian as all your doing is closing potential opportunity.