No idea what you mean. I just quickly wanted to update before calling it a night, got a grub update and now it neither boots the default nor the fallback image. I use Arch BTW.
KDE Neon for me. Previously Linux Mint. Both of their app stores are not great (on KDE Neon it only does flatpaks, and takes a full minute to launch), and my apt has had some kind of broken package/dependency for ages now. Also tried to install some app the other day through apt, cant remember what, but it wanted a different version of a package, but it wouldn't let me install it cause other things depended on a different version. In the end I just gave up and installed the flatpak instead.
Also multiple times, on both Mint and Neon, an update has randomly broken my Nvidia driver, so I had to restore a Timeshift backup.
And Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distros are supposed to be the easiest.
What do you mean "limited account"? Do you mean no sudo access? Because I literally wouldn't be able to install anything except for flatpaks. Are you implying that the breakages are my fault? Cause if so, what did I do to cause them? I don't personally think I've done anything crazy.
Also yes, windows breaks things sometimes as well. But my Linux install has broken over 5 times in the year and a half I've been using it. My windows install has broken... not once in the past 5 years. I have definitely had problems, but none so bad that I had to restore a backup or fix it with a live usb like I've had to with Linux.
I still like the freedom it gives me, that's why I still use it. But I feel like recommending it to people who don't know what they're doing is a horrible idea.
Lol, this was almost 15 years ago and i was just a dumb impatient kid messing around with CentOS. I mainly stopped using it because I couldn't game on it and I didn't have as much spare time at school.
Seriously getting worked up by a lighthearted joke huh? Lol, you need to calm down buddy. I'm not in the least intimidated or bothered by you and I'm not arguing with someone over something silly like this.
All I do is I let the updater run every day. It's identical to how Windows does it, and it updates and fixes things.
As far as gaming goes, I either install it via Steam directly, or I use Bottles and I have Bottles put a link into Steam for me, and then I launch it from Steam.
Lol, I'm not hating. I've had Linux before but it took more time then I had at that point learning and I mainly use my personal computers for gaming. Which is less of a headache on windows. That's just me though.
For me, it’s the right OS for the job. I use Linux for servers, Windows for gaming/work, and MacOS for gaming/personal. However, Linux Gaming is definitely coming along partly thanks to Proton (Valve).
Ah that's right I had heard something about that. Hopefully it continues improving so people don't feel like they have to choose either Linux or gaming and can base it purely on which OS they like better.
You can play the vast majority of games easily on Linux right now.
I've been a gamer my whole life, and I currently have a Linux system and I play every game I want to play on there just fine, either through Steam and/or Bottles/Steam.
I'm on windows 10, use my PC for work and gaming. The thing with windows is that it works right out of the box, all major softwares are developed for windows in mind. When shit stops working is when you start messing with stuff that isn't your typical "start the PC -> download program -> install -> run the program -> shut off" which is what most users do. Updating the os, softwares and GPU drivers are easy tasks.
It's when you start messing with python or softwares that aren't too mainstream and require a bit more effort that things have the potential to break. Even then, the os itself won't break on you unless you really try.
I broke windows a few times in 15 years but it's worth mentioning that I was manually and willingly changing registry keys and messing with a lot of other stuff. Even then most of the time I was able to fix it.
With Linux is different. If you just use the OS for basic stuff like browsing the internet and editing documents you should be fine for the most part (if you choose a user friendly and stable distro like Ubuntu or Mint).
The moment you try getting to run niche softwares or something that requires you to manually open the command prompt to change things in order to accomodate what you're trying to achieve, that's where it gets tough for most people.
That's how Linux works, it's the user's fault though not the machine's.
Might want to try again if you haven't updated your opinion for 15 years. Updating is so much easier and faster on Linux than windows nowadays. You don't really need the terminal unless you want to on the easier distros. Everytime I see that Windows update screen at work I remember one of the main reasons I abandoned it at home. The software centers make life so much easier than windows. The software updates on its own so you don't click on a program and then have to update it. Life, imo, is just better with Linux.
Fair enough. I would never recommend anyone to switch to Linux unless they absolutely need it for certain applications that are not possible on Windows. Linux requires some level of expertise to operate, that's the truth because the moment something small breaks (could be something as silly as the package manager) and you don't know how to trace it back or you don't know basic terminal commands, you essentially stepped on your own foot.
I was running Majaro on my old laptop that I only used for basic tasks (mostly studying and taking notes), until I needed the laptop for a music project I was working on. I couldn't even find the drivers for my audio interface or get any DAW to properly work on Linux, let alone all the plugins I needed. I had to reinstall Windows.
Now if I ever needed Linux (which I haven't in a long time) I have a VM set up for it.
Trying to remember what I used back then. Had to use something to simulate a windows client ( I had mac) for software I needed to use for class. I decided to mess around using Parallels for a Linux VM.
I haven't had this kind of problems with Fedora or Nobara, for me they just work. I've had more problems and used more time troubleshooting Windows than Linux
Gaming is pretty much the same on most distros, Nobara just has some tweaks and made it relatively easy to install proprietary drivers like nvidia, and hardware acceleration codecs etc. What problems you had with Nobara, and what distro you landed after? Just curious
Nonstop issues with the display config for Wayland. Forcing x11 helped a lot of issues. Too many weird glitchy OS things to count. Updates corrupting shit. GRUB broke. Generally lackluster performance even though I have decent hardware. I experienced all these issues within the 2 months I’ve been using it, vs windows being comparatively rock solid.
I haven’t. I’m still using Nobara. I wish it would be better. I am considering Mint (cinnamon) as it’s my fav distro.
Yeah I’m not sure the last time you used Linux but it’s nothing like that these days. As long as you stick with a well established distribution you’ll be fine. I haven’t had to go in a “fix” an update in a while, even in some of the beta updates they’re fairly stable.
Gaming on Linux is easier now but these Linux communities love gaslighting people. Go to any SteamDeck/Linux sub and you'll find tons of people having issues they wouldn't have in Windows.
Lol I used CentOS over 10 years ago so I know it's not the same. At some point I'll likely mess around with Linux again. It's amusing seeing how some got my joking around and others seemed to take it seriously. Maybe I should have put /s or something at the end of what I said. Oh well
And brick your install when you want to use a package made for an older version of your distro. Got Debian 11? Good luck running that utility built for Debian 10! (or Ubuntu 22.04 and utility built for 18.04)
Are we talking about windows or linux? Because updates are seamless if you want it and a single button otherwise.
Windows updates you have to re-affirm you infact do not want office 365 and you do not want spied on and do not want to make an account that after the desktop is blue for ~10 minutes saying "we're getting things ready" and then you have to jump through hoops re-setting your settings.
And that's every major update if we're talking about initial setup you have to hack the damn system just to remove the ads on the desktop, change the background, go into power shell, download sketchy software, remove one drive or at least turn it off so you don't get a stupid warning just for using your C drive.
I think this is very outdated information windows is absolutely horrendous to use.
Mostly just when you initially install like most OSes ; browsers, office suits, game launchers, etc... My mother doesn't even notice fedora automatically installing updates when she turns her PC off. (I enabled automatic updates for her)
Even with my arch Linux install with Hyprland, most of the time I just update before I turn it off. With a terminal command but even that is just paru and my password or flatpak update. If I had kde or gnome desktop, I could set it up to auto update too.
Sometimes I don't even bother and use the computer without updating it for a couple of months or it automatically updates when I install new software.
I made the switch to linux that time they had three bad patches in a row and nothing was working. Every issue I have had in an issue in linux I am able to fix myself since nothing is obfuscated. I was using x11 rewritten by some Croatian dude as a proof of concept because it was the only thing that allowed torch to address the video card properly. Run into an issue in windows and find out that neither the manufacturer nor microsoft are supporting your product. Nothing i can do about it. Utterly rage inducing.
i'm sorry, i've been out of the loop, and i haven't used windows on my own machines since XP quit being supported, but, fucking ads in the OS. i don't know if you're having me on or not.
It's ads for other Microsoft products, and some things that will very obviously get ads in the future, like news, but actually don't and nobody can explain how.
So yes, there are ads, but not the way you probably imagined. (Yet?)
About the same when you ask for a good GUI replacement for X and someone replies "just use the command line", like cheers for that men, not what I'm asking for.
AMEN! I asked recently if there was a good Linux alternative to this program I used in Windows called "Bulk Rename Utility" and i was flooded by people telling me how easy it was to set up a script to do what I want.
Turns out the best alternative is running BRU in Wine.
Tbh though, as a person going through this learning right now, the single most essential thing I did was youtube "basic bash tutorial" and watch a few videos/follow along with them. Gave me the first foothold to start climbing the cliff, made it much less foreboding.
Now I'm struggling with for loops, but that is not exactly basic and I'm blaming that on my ADHD, I haven't tried to learn in months, I'll get around to it!
I'd have recommended KRename personally. It uses some programming-esque stuff (format specifiers for stuff), but it's not exactly difficult to do advanced stuff with it.
This makes me wonder how powerful a repo platform like gitlab would be if it allowed people to suggest software ideas and have people make them. In this instance a simple GUI wrapper for bulk rename command line would be sufficient but I would bet there's millions of things like that, not world changing software just nice qol stuff
I tried to do something very similar recently and every solution I found involved using the command line with regular expressions. Fuck I hate regex. It would literally be faster for me to manually rename the files than to debug the regex until it works.
I still don't understand why there isn't a terminal-gui (you know, those text but graphical utilities) for basic stuff like mounting a network share. Why do I still need to manually edit fstab?!?
I do have to vouch for sometimes the command line is easier, not with everything but sometimes. Like my VPN sometimes it’s a little slow on the uptake and finding a server all that nonsense but I can also just have a few taps away at the command line and bing bang boom it’s done.
The ones that make me laugh uncontrollably are those Windows disk encryption issues for which the solution is…wait for it… run Linux from a LiveISO, fix the disk with Linux, then reinstall Windows. Because Windows is incapable of fixing its own issues that it itself caused.
I remember something happened to my family's Windows computer once. A system file had gotten corrupted somehow so it could only boot into the repair utility, which, naturally, couldn't repair the file.
The solution I found on Google was to put in the installation disc (I think it was Windows 7?), run the disc at startup (by switching the boot order in the BIOS), and fix it using Command Prompt on the disc.
Windows' own diagnostic tool included with the OS couldn't fix the problem. Only the disc could. It was pretty fortunate we still had that thing. Until then, it had just been sitting there collecting dust.
Windows lacking tooling to fix issues caused by its own malfeasance was what made my switch to Linux permanent. I used a LiveCD to fix file system issues that Windows had no tools for unless I wanted to pay thousands for janky third-party tools. Once I did that and recovered most of my lost data, I thought long and hard and just said "fuck it, I'll use Linux".
None of my family will run Linux, however, on my recommendation. I can cope with Linux's ... selective set of user friends. They can't, and I'll be damned if I turn into free tech support.
No, you don't say "switch to Linux". This is an opportunity to be free from the shackles of being the go-to IT support person! If they say they are having computer problems, ask "Is it Linux? No? Sorry, can't help you"
Hey, don't mock it like that! It actually worked for me once... Out of the 300 times I've seen it suggested over the course of my 5 years doing helpdesk.
I used to always tell people I use Linux to avoid doing tech support. It was working pretty well for a few years, now my friend just asked me to install it for him. I guess I played myself.
My Aunt bought a new laptop to run her eBay/Facebook selling business on. She's not particularly techy but has used Windows machines for admin work for prob 20 years or so.
Laptop had no office apps installed and she tracks everything in a spreadsheet. Original plan was to install Libreoffice but it was running some budget version of Windows 10 you can't install anything on, can't remember what it's called. So I installed Fedora.
Chromium and Libreoffice Calc open on login, her ancient HP printer works, she's able to access her camera as USB mass storage when she lists items and unattended upgrades are enabled.
That was 2 years ago, no problems since.
Cool story, bro. And for every such cool story you can bring up I can bring you a hundred, probably, of people who got set up on Linux and returned to Windows because it was a horror show from their perspective.
Let me give you the clue: "The Year of the Linux Desktop" has been declared with monotonous regularity since the 1990s. It still hasn't arrived. There's a reason for this, and the quicker Linux (and other F/OSS) advocates grasp why this is, the quicker will the year actually arrive.
Until then, Linux is a fringe OS for techies. (And there it excels. As I said, I've been a non-stop user of it for ages.)
I totally agree that can happen. My first experience with Linux was installing Slackware from a CD I got with a magazine at 16. Install worked but I couldn't really do much with it with no internet connection so abandoned it. Also I hosed the Windows partition when trying to set up dual boot so got banned from the family PC for a while.
Huh. My first Linux experience was an early Slackware too! And yeah, I tinkered with it (thankfully I had a second computer so I didn't trash my valuable computer) and just stopped using it because it didn't bring anything useful to the table at the time. (I switched to QNX on that computer instead.)
Years later I was a lot more impressed by Linux and made the switch to dual-boot, then finally ditched the Windows side entirely.
Clarifying what? That Linux is not the choice of non-techies as their primary desktop operating system? I think a quick observation of, you know, desktop computers would settle that in seconds.
It sounds like they're talking about the N versions of Windows, which can only install apps through the Microsoft Store. That can be disabled, but my understanding is it's a pain to get it done. It's meant to be locked down kind of like Apple products.
I don't know how this solution should be hard. I always have a live boot usb(O.K. not Fedora) with me and installing these apps is about 1-2 commands and I really don’t like scrolling through legacy Gui apps.
I couldn't find any way to do it. I also carry a Ventoy USB drive with me everywhere I go with Fedora on it as it's the distro I use so it was the quickest way I could think of to get everything working at the time.
There is fine line with being tech illiterate and being able to use linux when it all just works. The problems arise only when you are just slightly more advanced and want to do something weird without actually being able do it in linux with some things being a bit too much for the average Joe.
I tried to install I think Ubuntu for my parents. I failed to find a way to properly allow short/simple passwords after like 2 hours of fiddling with configs. Gave up on it after that.
Well, its between allowing that and not using Linux at all so that is that. If I could get them to remeber a strong password, it would not be for PC login.
What distro would you recommend? I was under the impression Ubuntu was furthest with UIs.
Hmmm, I had mint for a little bit once. I don't remember having any issues with it which probably means it is good. Paradoxically it also made me forget about it somewhat.
But I really have an urge to try NixOS for myself... And I don't really want to mess with my parents setup now.
I would recomment Mint to users who use their Computer for more than just Webbrowsing. If its just webbrowsing and you know Linux, try setting up Fedora silverblue. In my vm's two digit passwords work.
But in general these days, I'd absolutely recommend it. Anything in the debian family is just as easy to use as windows. As long as you hook them up with some good cron jobs for auto updates and rollbacks on failures and stuff, they'll be right as rain.
As long as the distro is stable anyone can use it to use a browser and browse the internet. I had put Ubuntu Linux for my mom on a laptop, back in 2010, she was using just the browser. She had it for 2 years, no problems. She did nothing else with that laptop though, because that was the first time she was using a computer. She was mostly facebooking.
Exactly. My parents have been using Linux for years, they have no technical expertise, and most of the time they don't need it. For the average user, I find linux more stable than windows.
ngl, the "switch to linux" crowd is close to a vibe of complaining that "my car is making some weird sounds" and the response is to "buy a new car!" I mean, it would solve the problem of not having that issue with windows/your car, but it also means you have to intrusively replace your workflow and probably find some entirely new programs to do what you already could, and potentially have many new, less explicable problems, just to not have that one tiny problem that you could live around.
Car is making some weird sounds -> you slipped a bearing, your head gasket is blown, or something else catastrophic, because you bought a Ford/Kia/etc. -> buy a new car
I love Linux, but it's my job. When I go home I just want the simplicity of Windows. Thanks to tons of useless certifications it does exactly what I tell it to do.
When family wants a new OS install I don't suggest Linux or even mention it's existence. They get a version of Windows 10 with the bloat ripped out and the inability to upgrade to Windows 11. 90% of tech support calls have been stopped.
What friends I have attempted to convert usually go back to Windows due to Nvidia driver issues but as we move forward and gaming becomes less of a hurdle maybe we'll see more converts. Especially if Windows keeps pushing their whole cloud OS thing.
Okay, I'll bite. I've been trying Linux every few years for the last few decades and it's never been anywhere close to replacing Windows for me. I'm not a luddite; I was in tech for many years (MCSE certified) but there just... ALWAYS something that doesn't work right. And there's NEVER a simple fix. Linux for me ends up being more of a hobby than a tool and I haven't had the time or patience to deal with it in the past.
But I'm willing to try again,
Anyone have any resources to get me pointed in the right direction? Which distro to try, how to install as a dual-boot on an exiting Windows machine without breaking it, how to get Steam/Nvidia drivers/games going, etc?
EDIT - Apparently trying to dual boot with Windows on a machine with two physical drives is too much to ask (unless you have a CS degree). Maybe next time, Linux.
Linux will only be the solution when it finally learns to adequately cater to a better class of idiots. Once Linux handles a fool as well as Windows, then we can talk.
Yeah right. I tried Linux Mint, and I had so many problems I had to switch to KDE Neon. Admittedly like half of them were related to Nvidia, but lots of people have Nvidia.
Even if I'm an outlier, I don't think you understand what foolproof means. Maybe you set if up for them and they've never had to touch it, but most people don't have that luxury, and also will probably need to touch it at some point.
I've never used it with a Nvidia card, was speaking mostly about mine and my family's experience. I don't currently know the state of Nvidia support on Mint at this moment, whether with the proprietary or open source drivers, so can't give you any info on that.
About being foolproof, it's about being easy to use without having many footguns, not about being bug free.
But how is it easy to use? It's easy to use once it's set up I guess, as long as you don't touch it. But again, most people will need to touch it I feel like, to install some software or something like that. Even if all you do is update every now and then, I have had updates that just completely break things, forcing me to roll back to a Timeshift snapshot, multiple times. I wouldn't call that easy to use.
I mean, I guess if your family had no major problems, they had no major problems. I just can't figure out how they would've managed that.
What Mint install did you have that had that many issues? Installing apps has been easy for a long time already, just open the app store and pick what you need. Updates is the same thing: app store > update. Whenever something breaks for some reason, there are auto-created rollbacks on the boot menu. My partner is far from being a techie and they managed every daily operation without needing help from my part.
I think we had vastly different experiences, probably because of hardware or release differences, but I never saw the kind of issues you're commenting :/
Indeed. I've been on Arch for a few years, and it's great 99% of the time.
But I really hate how sometimes you sit down to work and something broke and you have to tinker to figure out why instead of focusing on what you want to focus.
You'd think so, but like my experience with other distros people suggest as more stable has been even worse. I've never tried Debian, but I swear, next time this breaks down I'm going for that one and being happy with my packages from 1997.
Can you use windows software on Mac or Android? It's a different OS, tho wine and proton can make Photoshop and Lightroom work, it's hit or miss tho. Most games work too save anti-cheat ones for some reason.
It wasn't trying to be snarky, just genuinely asking because I'd love to switch to Linux and check in now and then but until I can safely work with heavy graphics processes on it reliably, I can't switch. Main tools are DaVinci Resolve, Photoshop+LR, Blender, and Inkscape. For personal I make music with Bitwig (which has a Linux version I know that) and some other stuff, and I game on it now and then (drone simulator on Steam with a radio controller on usb, sometimes a bit of WoW), but these days I mostly game downstairs on the Xbox anyway.
Same here. I've been very interested in Linux for a long time but until creative/professional apps are available and reliable on Linux, it'll be contained in a VM for now.
I can't speak for Lightroom but Photoshop works through wine and Davinci resolve and blender is native on Linux. Source: I'm an artist using krita and blender on Linux. Also I use darktable as a substitute for Lightroom.
Edit: specifically Photoshop 2018, but i use krita since i already use it for digital painting anyway.
Yeah as you can maybe tell from the list, I've already been trying hard to go to alternative/open source replacements to most of Adobe's lineup but PS+LR is the engine behind the day to day work and I couldn't find something to truly replace it just yet. The new AI stuff they're bringing into PS isn't going to make it any easier to ditch lest you'll be left behind the competition..
I'll look at darktable, does it integrate well with PS? I need it to merge to HDR, and open as layers into PS.
Gaming through Steam/Proton is easy and performant, but some games have invasive anti-cheat that won't work on Linux, and some game companies turn Linux support purposely off.
Photoshop and Lightroom both probably work through Wine (or maybe even Proton), but it isn't guaranteed. Best option is to work with alternatives. I switched from PS to Krita years ago and have been happier than ever with the switch.
There are many resources on Linux software that are alternatives (and often compatible with) windows-only software.
Doesn’t even have to be a "class of idiots". It would be enough if stuff didn’t just sometimes break, seemingly randomly. (It’s not quite random, obviously.)
Recent example: I had OpenSuse TW recommended because of its reliability. First tip: install codecs, which requires adding the Packman repository. Now, simply updating threw up errors several times because Packman and the other repositories are apparently not in sync, and some dependencies would break if I updated. (Waiting a few days "fixed" it, but still shouldn’t happen.)
Depending on which update method you use (Yast/Discovery/zypper/update widget) you get different error messages, most of which are not informative. This is for an established distribution known for its reliability, and this alone would keep me from ever recommending it to normal users, even moderately tech-savvy ones.
Things are getting better, but I’m still shopping around for a distro that just works. Perhaps that new Fedora version, or one of the immutable ones, now that they are getting popular.
Ubuntu does this well with gnome shell, where it's more like using a mobile device that a desktop. To be truly idiot proof you just need to prevent actually interesting software from being installed :D
As someone who has had been around Linux-based people and whenever I have had a single gripe about Windows - it's this.
I don't have a hate boner with Linux, I just feel like Linux is a little too much for the average casual user. Everything is fine until they run into a single issue with Linux, if the bewilderment of not having their familiar easy to run programs that they had on Windows wasn't a turn off for them from the get-go.
I have almost my whole family on opensuse tumbleweed and even my mom can hit the update button in the notification panel. One brother on arch and the other on windows. Guess which computer I'm reluctant to touch even with gloves on. And it has nothing to do with the operating system, it's genuinely disgusting.
My guess your brother with Linux? It's probably used as a wank machine with privacy feature built-in no need to worry Microsoft looking into your browser history lmao.
Every time I try Linux on my own, it's fine. But God forbid I ever use any device that comes with Linux pre-installed, and I'm cursed. I'm on my third steam deck after it software bricked itself, and our university Linux server is so unstable that it disconnects my session with vim every 30 minutes or so. Pain. At least there's a method to the madness: trust nobody but myself :P
Screen and tmux are your friends in this situation. They can keep your vim session alive when your SSH connection drops, so you can reconnect and continue where you left off.
Have you tried using Mosh? It's the "Mobile Shell" which was built to survive the dodgey connections of WiFi, mobile/cell and long distance SSH connections. Well worth a look if you're having problems with a disconnecting shell.
It's available on all versions of Linux, iOS, Mac and Android.
Holy hell, three Decks? How did they get bricked? I've had mine since the second shipment batch and beyond some very early software issues it's been pretty solid.
Yeah, the first one was DOA, the second (in the most amazing of ironies) started downloading an update by itself, which dropped my game down to 10fps. When I restarted the deck and the update applied, it corrupted everything so badly that even the BIOS wasn't left intact. Nothing I did or valve support could do could bring it back, even with reflashing the OS. And while I might be a moron, I've also been building/watercooling PCs and tinkering with OSs for well over a decade. That deck was bone stock and on stable channel xD
I'm on my third one now, and so far it's been smooth sailing...mostly. I still haven't put a screen protector on it, because I think that jinxed my last two, lmao. Thank God everything is backed up.
I am, but I kinda bring it upon myself by getting niche equipment that usually is far outside the norm or not ready for prime time. It's whatever, haha.
Windows sucks but no one seems to realize this because they're too comfortable with how they fix, or work around, the broken stuff repetitively. The repetitiveness of the bad experience becomes "normal" so nothing is amiss. It being broken is "normal" so in their eyes it "just works"TM. It's almost like a form of brain washing.
It really is akin to people in domestic abuse situations who are just so numb to it they aren't motivated to get out.
Maybe we should be taking a book from domestic abuse counseling or something?
At least the Mint live ISO doesn't have password. When you lock the OS there, you don't enter a password and just press Enter to log back in. At least I think it was the Mint ISO
First time I agree with the Raven. Switch to Linux!!!
Windows is just a shitshow, we all watch and can't believe they are doing this. Win 11 will bring us one of the biggest hardware-waste ever in a world where we should spare with resources.
But hey, throw that 4GB RAM machine in the trash bin everyone wants Win11. So glossy and shiny, so hot right now.
It's not coming completely out of nowhere. The fact that you're having a discussion on Lemmy means the people you're conversing with are aware that you're willing to consider libre alternatives to shitty mainstream tech.
Reddit fucked it a lot harder than Windows has though, Windows might do annoying stuff but it does work and I don't need like, a Windows is fun app to make it do what I want it to. Mostly.
I used to suggest linux to my friends and family but i stopped doing that as i found none of them actually cared what OS they ran. They also have a misunderstanding that Linux is very complex and difficult to use.
Yeah not a very big fan of trying to get people to switch platforms especially if they are non-technical as if they A) have the mental bandwidth to change their whole workflow paradigm to appease someone else’s ideals, and B) even have a use case where Linux is an option
Anyone’s negative feelings for Windows and Office’s telemetry or Apple’s walled garden is justified but if I do know what Linux is, I didn’t decide to use Windows because I wanted to lick bill gates’ boots, I have a specific use case. And if I don’t know what it is, I probably need the OOB usability that Windows and OSX offer
True. Ubuntu was certainly matched and even surpassed in these areas. But you'll always have people who are like "just switch to this XY distro they don't have that problem" who are just as loud lol
Please try linux mint, it truly is an exellent and nearly bullet proof OS. Pretty much the most popular distro so theres a good chance if you ever do run into an issue or want to know something its not hard to find the info you need with a simple query. No driver jankiness or hardware support issues ive ever experienced either.
Mints cinnamon desktop environment is very different to Plasma KDE. You may find it more pleasant to use. What are you unhappy about with your current distro and what makes you want to move back to windows
True but I would go with Mate, Budgie or XFCE because I'm an old fashioned guy :) The new (now it's old I guess) gnome philosophy hasn't made a lot of sense to me on a non-touch device.
I dual boot just so I can still have programming software for many of my ham radios. Planning on getting a graphics card soon and then I'll use windows for that and fallout 🥴
I would love to switch completely to Linux, but the Engineering software I use is specific to Windows and their certified drivers (Solidworks). However, my home computer may get the switch sooner than later! I love how well SteamOS works and now I want it on my main machine.
I use macOS for Work, Linux for Personal stuff, Windows for Gaming. I still prefer Linux to anything. It's lightweight, FOSS, privacy respecting and fast. I have mint installed on my 11 yo laptop, and it still kicks like a warhorse during web development.
I bought a Steam Deck and got Win 11 up and running on an external SSD just to piss off the raven. :)
The fact is that certain things require Windows, and yeah, you might be able to jump through some hoops to get them to kinda/sorta run under Linux, but if you have a hard time with Windows, you'll never be able to do that in Linux.
How do you do this? When I was putting Linux on Chromebook you had to do firmware mods that entailed taking the laptop apart to get it to work properly.
Ive tried to update it several times in the past using the linux installer that comes built in, yet each time it has failed. I need to open it up and then find some files for it.
Really? I have a somewhat (six years) old Acer chromebook, and I had to flash a custom bios on it to install Linux. It wasn't terribly hard, and the guides on the internet were really good. It still took a couple of hours, but it wasn't as easy as installing Linux on a Windows machine... That may have changed since then (two years ago) but it was a learning experience and I personally enjoyed tinkering and getting it all installed. I now have a Chromebook running EndeavourOS.
Mass acceptance on the desktop will never happen for Linux and the Linux community itself is mostly the problem. For the same reason why open source software, for the most part, is just so god awful (with a few fantastic examples). It is software written by developers, for developers with little consideration for users. It tends to be clunky and counterintuitive.
I remember back in the early 2000s when I first got into IT. My manager at Burger King was one of those Linux guys and he tried to get me to install Gentoo. And his status message in MSN Messenger (probably used Pidgin too) was “In a world without windows, who needs Gates?”
I think this has mostly died down with PCs becoming less common than phones.
...I mean.... if you -STILL- want to use Windows (and only) Windows at current date, Year of Gaben 2023? Then you either need a reality check or to stop being -THAT- lazy.
well, i'd love to switch but not everything i want to play / use is on linux. and honestly- i can't be bothered to use 2 different OS. will switch once everything i use is available tho.
2022 and 2023 I made multiple decent attempts to go Linux and I've finally ragequit back to Windows where things finally just work. Currently using WSL for my Linux needs.
So many frustrating hours.
Unresolvable sound issues
Multi monitor issues
Size scaling issues
Couldn't get my games working even for Gold rated proton games
Don't think I ever got nvidia drivers working correctly
Really struggled on some distros to find the correct packages for some things because they were named differently?
Couldn't find how to set a desktop background that filled my entire screen in Gnome. It kept repeating to fill the screen instead of just "zooming"
Got 100% CPU usage in KDE just doing nothing
Didn't even want to start figuring how to run my Windows-only apps because by that time I was a bundle of stress and just wanted to use my pc without fighting it every step
Conclusion for me: Windows is best DE, so use Windows+WSL
I'm a bit sad about it because I'm getting more and more frustrated with Windows 11 direction. It seems each update brings a new configuration or "feature" that makes things more difficult for me.
I do feel I am being pushed out of Windows.
For about the last 10 years I try going Linux roughly every 3 years. So I'll give it another shot in a couple of years.
I fully understand for some people it just works. But it is not yet my personal Year Of Linux Desktop
I'm sorry to hear that you've had a poor experience with trying to migrate to Linux. It is a big switch in terms of how the OS is structured and how things work. Unfortunately the out of box experience of Linux on personal laptops and desktops can be quite poor for commonly recommended distros like Ubuntu especially if you want to game.
This might be contentious with some people but if you or anyone is feeling adventurous and in the mood to try to understand how Linux works, I would recommend Arch. It gives you the reins to setup and configure your system how you wish. I would however try it in a VM first before going dual boot or as your sole driver.
I've tried many Linux distros over the years (Mint, Ubuntu, Centos, etc) but Arch has been the most stable and enjoyable to use. I have one install from 2013 that's still going strong. Nvidia drivers or Steam can be installed without setting up PPAs or downloading binaries as one might need to do on other Linux distros. Most third party apps I would want are available through the Arch User Repository (AUR). The Arch wiki is amazingly useful for any Linux user.
I've heard many people mentioning EndevourOS and I think that's based on Arch?
EndevourOS was top of my list to try next time I'm willing to give Linux another shot.
The most interesting distro I tried was MicroOS (opensuse immutable). I really liked the immutable concept, keeping the base OS clean and mess around inside containers. Very cool
I haven't heard anything bad about Endeavor in the same way people slam Manjaro for their poor management of an Arch based distro. It'd be worth a shot I think. Rolling release distros like Arch can provide a very nice up-to-date user experience vs major releases, which I have never had much luck with on Linux.
I've never heard ofMicroOS, but have heard of OpenSUSE. It sounds like it would be useful for servers and maybe if you want to do some software development where you'd want to use containers for building and running your app. I'll have to check it out.
Switch to Linux and spend way more time making sure everything is updated and having to jump through hoops installing things.
No idea what you mean. I just quickly wanted to update before calling it a night, got a grub update and now it neither boots the default nor the fallback image. I use Arch BTW.
so everything breaks daily i assume?
More seriously: it really doesn't. This was the first time for me. Fit perfectly here though. Now where did I put that that live USB drive...?
Only the pacman-keys.
KDE Neon for me. Previously Linux Mint. Both of their app stores are not great (on KDE Neon it only does flatpaks, and takes a full minute to launch), and my apt has had some kind of broken package/dependency for ages now. Also tried to install some app the other day through apt, cant remember what, but it wanted a different version of a package, but it wouldn't let me install it cause other things depended on a different version. In the end I just gave up and installed the flatpak instead.
Also multiple times, on both Mint and Neon, an update has randomly broken my Nvidia driver, so I had to restore a Timeshift backup.
And Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distros are supposed to be the easiest.
What do you mean "limited account"? Do you mean no sudo access? Because I literally wouldn't be able to install anything except for flatpaks. Are you implying that the breakages are my fault? Cause if so, what did I do to cause them? I don't personally think I've done anything crazy.
Also yes, windows breaks things sometimes as well. But my Linux install has broken over 5 times in the year and a half I've been using it. My windows install has broken... not once in the past 5 years. I have definitely had problems, but none so bad that I had to restore a backup or fix it with a live usb like I've had to with Linux.
I still like the freedom it gives me, that's why I still use it. But I feel like recommending it to people who don't know what they're doing is a horrible idea.
Lol, this was almost 15 years ago and i was just a dumb impatient kid messing around with CentOS. I mainly stopped using it because I couldn't game on it and I didn't have as much spare time at school.
Seriously getting worked up by a lighthearted joke huh? Lol, you need to calm down buddy. I'm not in the least intimidated or bothered by you and I'm not arguing with someone over something silly like this.
What on earth? Maintaining my Fedora machine has been a breeze, and most games work out the box whenever you install them on Steam!
Gaming has become the main task I expect my Linux device to do expertly!
I can confirm this as a Fedora user.
All I do is I let the updater run every day. It's identical to how Windows does it, and it updates and fixes things.
As far as gaming goes, I either install it via Steam directly, or I use Bottles and I have Bottles put a link into Steam for me, and then I launch it from Steam.
My grandma runs Ubuntu and has gotten by fine without the command line
I accept this fate.
Lol, I'm not hating. I've had Linux before but it took more time then I had at that point learning and I mainly use my personal computers for gaming. Which is less of a headache on windows. That's just me though.
For me, it’s the right OS for the job. I use Linux for servers, Windows for gaming/work, and MacOS for gaming/personal. However, Linux Gaming is definitely coming along partly thanks to Proton (Valve).
Ah that's right I had heard something about that. Hopefully it continues improving so people don't feel like they have to choose either Linux or gaming and can base it purely on which OS they like better.
You can play the vast majority of games easily on Linux right now.
I've been a gamer my whole life, and I currently have a Linux system and I play every game I want to play on there just fine, either through Steam and/or Bottles/Steam.
I'm on windows 10, use my PC for work and gaming. The thing with windows is that it works right out of the box, all major softwares are developed for windows in mind. When shit stops working is when you start messing with stuff that isn't your typical "start the PC -> download program -> install -> run the program -> shut off" which is what most users do. Updating the os, softwares and GPU drivers are easy tasks.
It's when you start messing with python or softwares that aren't too mainstream and require a bit more effort that things have the potential to break. Even then, the os itself won't break on you unless you really try. I broke windows a few times in 15 years but it's worth mentioning that I was manually and willingly changing registry keys and messing with a lot of other stuff. Even then most of the time I was able to fix it.
With Linux is different. If you just use the OS for basic stuff like browsing the internet and editing documents you should be fine for the most part (if you choose a user friendly and stable distro like Ubuntu or Mint). The moment you try getting to run niche softwares or something that requires you to manually open the command prompt to change things in order to accomodate what you're trying to achieve, that's where it gets tough for most people. That's how Linux works, it's the user's fault though not the machine's.
I never claimed it wasn't user error. This was almost 15 years ago and I was just a dumb impatient kid messing around with CentOS.
Might want to try again if you haven't updated your opinion for 15 years. Updating is so much easier and faster on Linux than windows nowadays. You don't really need the terminal unless you want to on the easier distros. Everytime I see that Windows update screen at work I remember one of the main reasons I abandoned it at home. The software centers make life so much easier than windows. The software updates on its own so you don't click on a program and then have to update it. Life, imo, is just better with Linux.
Fair enough. I would never recommend anyone to switch to Linux unless they absolutely need it for certain applications that are not possible on Windows. Linux requires some level of expertise to operate, that's the truth because the moment something small breaks (could be something as silly as the package manager) and you don't know how to trace it back or you don't know basic terminal commands, you essentially stepped on your own foot.
I was running Majaro on my old laptop that I only used for basic tasks (mostly studying and taking notes), until I needed the laptop for a music project I was working on. I couldn't even find the drivers for my audio interface or get any DAW to properly work on Linux, let alone all the plugins I needed. I had to reinstall Windows.
Now if I ever needed Linux (which I haven't in a long time) I have a VM set up for it.
Trying to remember what I used back then. Had to use something to simulate a windows client ( I had mac) for software I needed to use for class. I decided to mess around using Parallels for a Linux VM.
FUD
Fucked Up the Distro?
Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. A standard approach to suppressing wide adoption of FOSS.
i used windows and their 'FUD' worked on me lol
I haven't had this kind of problems with Fedora or Nobara, for me they just work. I've had more problems and used more time troubleshooting Windows than Linux
I’ve had nothing but problems with Nobara it’s been a nightmare for me. I thought it would be the promised land for Linux gaming.
Gaming is pretty much the same on most distros, Nobara just has some tweaks and made it relatively easy to install proprietary drivers like nvidia, and hardware acceleration codecs etc. What problems you had with Nobara, and what distro you landed after? Just curious
Nonstop issues with the display config for Wayland. Forcing x11 helped a lot of issues. Too many weird glitchy OS things to count. Updates corrupting shit. GRUB broke. Generally lackluster performance even though I have decent hardware. I experienced all these issues within the 2 months I’ve been using it, vs windows being comparatively rock solid.
I haven’t. I’m still using Nobara. I wish it would be better. I am considering Mint (cinnamon) as it’s my fav distro.
Yeah I’m not sure the last time you used Linux but it’s nothing like that these days. As long as you stick with a well established distribution you’ll be fine. I haven’t had to go in a “fix” an update in a while, even in some of the beta updates they’re fairly stable.
Gaming on Linux is easier now but these Linux communities love gaslighting people. Go to any SteamDeck/Linux sub and you'll find tons of people having issues they wouldn't have in Windows.
Lol I used CentOS over 10 years ago so I know it's not the same. At some point I'll likely mess around with Linux again. It's amusing seeing how some got my joking around and others seemed to take it seriously. Maybe I should have put /s or something at the end of what I said. Oh well
And brick your install when you want to use a package made for an older version of your distro. Got Debian 11? Good luck running that utility built for Debian 10! (or Ubuntu 22.04 and utility built for 18.04)
Are we talking about windows or linux? Because updates are seamless if you want it and a single button otherwise.
Windows updates you have to re-affirm you infact do not want office 365 and you do not want spied on and do not want to make an account that after the desktop is blue for ~10 minutes saying "we're getting things ready" and then you have to jump through hoops re-setting your settings.
And that's every major update if we're talking about initial setup you have to hack the damn system just to remove the ads on the desktop, change the background, go into power shell, download sketchy software, remove one drive or at least turn it off so you don't get a stupid warning just for using your C drive.
I think this is very outdated information windows is absolutely horrendous to use.
Mostly just when you initially install like most OSes ; browsers, office suits, game launchers, etc... My mother doesn't even notice fedora automatically installing updates when she turns her PC off. (I enabled automatic updates for her)
Even with my arch Linux install with Hyprland, most of the time I just update before I turn it off. With a terminal command but even that is just
paruand my password orflatpak update. If I had kde or gnome desktop, I could set it up to auto update too.Sometimes I don't even bother and use the computer without updating it for a couple of months or it automatically updates when I install new software.
Fedora. Flatpak. Good experience chheeck.
Just use nobara or pop!_OS, makes everything a lot easier
"Okay, I switched to Linux, now I'm getting this error message: _______."
"Install ______."
"It gives me this error now: ______."
"You have to update the _____ library first."
"It won't let me."
"You have to use sudo."
"It tells me to clone the git via the command line, but git says verifying login from command line isn't supported any more."
"You're following seven year old instructions."
"They're the only instructions I can find."
"You should switch to this other flavor of Linux."
I remember I had a date with a girl back in the'10s. We hit it off and got back to her place. Wanted to show her a funny Internet video.
She brought out an ancient laptop that refused to boot and said her Ex had tried to fix it with Linux.
I got it pointed at the right dependencies, she fellated me as it updated.
I think this is my only sexy story that includes Linux.
Well, I guess there was this one time I loaned a lonely neighbor DOS 6 disks.
But, that does not include Linux.
My suspicion is it's not just your sexy Linux story but the only sexy Linux story.
I mean we all know that recompiling the kernel is practically a replacement for sex
Never been to PenguiCon, I guess.
Is that the furry Linux con?
This is the best blowjob story I've read yet lol
Switch to Linux! Then you can have problems with Linux.
I made the switch to linux that time they had three bad patches in a row and nothing was working. Every issue I have had in an issue in linux I am able to fix myself since nothing is obfuscated. I was using x11 rewritten by some Croatian dude as a proof of concept because it was the only thing that allowed torch to address the video card properly. Run into an issue in windows and find out that neither the manufacturer nor microsoft are supporting your product. Nothing i can do about it. Utterly rage inducing.
i'm sorry, i've been out of the loop, and i haven't used windows on my own machines since XP quit being supported, but, fucking ads in the OS. i don't know if you're having me on or not.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-experiments-with-ads-in-the-windows-11-start-menu
https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-experiments-with-ads-in-windows-11-file-explorer
It's ads for other Microsoft products, and some things that will very obviously get ads in the future, like news, but actually don't and nobody can explain how.
So yes, there are ads, but not the way you probably imagined. (Yet?)
And candy crush, don't forget the OG!
Imagine playing solitaire and everytime you flip the draw pile a 30 second unskippable online casino ad plays.
I have seen mobile games that are like this.
Some even happen to be popular, so I have no idea what people consider fun.
If you run an office and need your computers to be relatively idiotproof, use Windowss
Or just specific software that is not available on Linux.
And lock that damn Windows DOWN. Windows isn't idiotproof if you can install just about any software you want.
About the same when you ask for a good GUI replacement for X and someone replies "just use the command line", like cheers for that men, not what I'm asking for.
AMEN! I asked recently if there was a good Linux alternative to this program I used in Windows called "Bulk Rename Utility" and i was flooded by people telling me how easy it was to set up a script to do what I want.
Turns out the best alternative is running BRU in Wine.
There almost always powerful existing utilities that can do what you want in linux.
But you have to find them and they have a learning curve. Sometimes that "curve" is a cliff.
Tbh though, as a person going through this learning right now, the single most essential thing I did was youtube "basic bash tutorial" and watch a few videos/follow along with them. Gave me the first foothold to start climbing the cliff, made it much less foreboding.
Now I'm struggling with for loops, but that is not exactly basic and I'm blaming that on my ADHD, I haven't tried to learn in months, I'll get around to it!
Krename is pretty nice
I'd have recommended KRename personally. It uses some programming-esque stuff (format specifiers for stuff), but it's not exactly difficult to do advanced stuff with it.
Let me tell you about the wonderful world of pipes
Wahoo!
This makes me wonder how powerful a repo platform like gitlab would be if it allowed people to suggest software ideas and have people make them. In this instance a simple GUI wrapper for bulk rename command line would be sufficient but I would bet there's millions of things like that, not world changing software just nice qol stuff
I tried to do something very similar recently and every solution I found involved using the command line with regular expressions. Fuck I hate regex. It would literally be faster for me to manually rename the files than to debug the regex until it works.
No need for a script, just use
rename."Why even use a DE? Try a WM like openbox"
Well, because a lot of things are simplified with DE functionality, and not everyone has the same preferences...
The WM folks can be obnoxious lol. But it comes from a place of passion and love for the ecosystem so it’s not bad.
I still don't understand why there isn't a terminal-gui (you know, those text but graphical utilities) for basic stuff like mounting a network share. Why do I still need to manually edit fstab?!?
Like wanting to hear "this is the Year of the Linux Desktop" and needing to hear "this is the 27th consecutive Year of the Linux Desktop that failed"?
And yet people stay away from it in droves.
Fancy that.
Sounds like someone is hearing what he wants to hear, not what he needs to.
I do have to vouch for sometimes the command line is easier, not with everything but sometimes. Like my VPN sometimes it’s a little slow on the uptake and finding a server all that nonsense but I can also just have a few taps away at the command line and bing bang boom it’s done.
Based 😁
The ones that make me laugh uncontrollably are those Windows disk encryption issues for which the solution is…wait for it… run Linux from a LiveISO, fix the disk with Linux, then reinstall Windows. Because Windows is incapable of fixing its own issues that it itself caused.
As a former computer service technician, we used Ubuntu Live USB and DVDs (yes it was a long ago) a lot.
I remember something happened to my family's Windows computer once. A system file had gotten corrupted somehow so it could only boot into the repair utility, which, naturally, couldn't repair the file.
The solution I found on Google was to put in the installation disc (I think it was Windows 7?), run the disc at startup (by switching the boot order in the BIOS), and fix it using Command Prompt on the disc.
Windows' own diagnostic tool included with the OS couldn't fix the problem. Only the disc could. It was pretty fortunate we still had that thing. Until then, it had just been sitting there collecting dust.
Windows lacking tooling to fix issues caused by its own malfeasance was what made my switch to Linux permanent. I used a LiveCD to fix file system issues that Windows had no tools for unless I wanted to pay thousands for janky third-party tools. Once I did that and recovered most of my lost data, I thought long and hard and just said "fuck it, I'll use Linux".
None of my family will run Linux, however, on my recommendation. I can cope with Linux's ... selective set of user friends. They can't, and I'll be damned if I turn into free tech support.
No, you don't say "switch to Linux". This is an opportunity to be free from the shackles of being the go-to IT support person! If they say they are having computer problems, ask "Is it Linux? No? Sorry, can't help you"
50% of the time the Microsoft forum help solution for any Windows problem is "Have you tried Re-installing Windows?"
Or
sfc scannow, absolute classicHey, don't mock it like that! It actually worked for me once... Out of the 300 times I've seen it suggested over the course of my 5 years doing helpdesk.
I used to always tell people I use Linux to avoid doing tech support. It was working pretty well for a few years, now my friend just asked me to install it for him. I guess I played myself.
The source! It burnses us!
Perhaps the real tech support was the friends we installed Linux for along the way.
A non-technical end-user once had a problem with Windows. A technical friend said "SWITCH TO LINUX". Now they have thousands of problems.
I've been a non-stop user of Linux as my primary OS since before Ubuntu was a thing. I do not recommend Linux systems to my non-technical friends.
My Aunt bought a new laptop to run her eBay/Facebook selling business on. She's not particularly techy but has used Windows machines for admin work for prob 20 years or so. Laptop had no office apps installed and she tracks everything in a spreadsheet. Original plan was to install Libreoffice but it was running some budget version of Windows 10 you can't install anything on, can't remember what it's called. So I installed Fedora. Chromium and Libreoffice Calc open on login, her ancient HP printer works, she's able to access her camera as USB mass storage when she lists items and unattended upgrades are enabled. That was 2 years ago, no problems since.
Cool story, bro. And for every such cool story you can bring up I can bring you a hundred, probably, of people who got set up on Linux and returned to Windows because it was a horror show from their perspective.
Let me give you the clue: "The Year of the Linux Desktop" has been declared with monotonous regularity since the 1990s. It still hasn't arrived. There's a reason for this, and the quicker Linux (and other F/OSS) advocates grasp why this is, the quicker will the year actually arrive.
Until then, Linux is a fringe OS for techies. (And there it excels. As I said, I've been a non-stop user of it for ages.)
I totally agree that can happen. My first experience with Linux was installing Slackware from a CD I got with a magazine at 16. Install worked but I couldn't really do much with it with no internet connection so abandoned it. Also I hosed the Windows partition when trying to set up dual boot so got banned from the family PC for a while.
Huh. My first Linux experience was an early Slackware too! And yeah, I tinkered with it (thankfully I had a second computer so I didn't trash my valuable computer) and just stopped using it because it didn't bring anything useful to the table at the time. (I switched to QNX on that computer instead.)
Years later I was a lot more impressed by Linux and made the switch to dual-boot, then finally ditched the Windows side entirely.
Mind clarifying?
Clarifying what? That Linux is not the choice of non-techies as their primary desktop operating system? I think a quick observation of, you know, desktop computers would settle that in seconds.
All you have to do is turn that off and you can install anything you want. You took a simple problem and made it hard.
It sounds like they're talking about the N versions of Windows, which can only install apps through the Microsoft Store. That can be disabled, but my understanding is it's a pain to get it done. It's meant to be locked down kind of like Apple products.
It's S mode and it's just a couple buttons.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307
I don't know how this solution should be hard. I always have a live boot usb(O.K. not Fedora) with me and installing these apps is about 1-2 commands and I really don’t like scrolling through legacy Gui apps.
I couldn't find any way to do it. I also carry a Ventoy USB drive with me everywhere I go with Fedora on it as it's the distro I use so it was the quickest way I could think of to get everything working at the time.
Windows S can be turned off, but it does require an internet connection.
I installed Linux to my tech illiterate parents. They are doing fine. No issues in years.
They probably stopped asking you for help and just used their phones.
My dad thought the XFCE-Materia-Theme is the occasional Windows redesign until i told him.
And last month he wanted his antivirus back, even though i explained it already. But he's good at other things.
I love XFCE because of its retro 90s Win98 look!
I mean, that's what themes are for. Just adapt it to your liking.
There is fine line with being tech illiterate and being able to use linux when it all just works. The problems arise only when you are just slightly more advanced and want to do something weird without actually being able do it in linux with some things being a bit too much for the average Joe.
The only thing people like my parents need is a functioning browser. I bet %95 of all Windows/Mac users are similar.
Yeah that is not true. Microsoft Office is one super commonly used thing, and that doesn't work on Linux.
And before you say, yes there are alternatives to Office. The point is most people definitely need more than a web browser.
Yeah correction, people think Chromium is enough until it's not
Microsoft Office works in the browser.
It's shit, I've tried it, so many features missing.
I tried to install I think Ubuntu for my parents. I failed to find a way to properly allow short/simple passwords after like 2 hours of fiddling with configs. Gave up on it after that.
You shouldn't be allowing that to be honest. You also shouldn't be using Ubuntu especially for new users.
Well, its between allowing that and not using Linux at all so that is that. If I could get them to remeber a strong password, it would not be for PC login.
What distro would you recommend? I was under the impression Ubuntu was furthest with UIs.
Ubuntu has turned to garbage in recent years because of canonical. It also looks more like mac than Windows.
Try Linux Mint.
Hmmm, I had mint for a little bit once. I don't remember having any issues with it which probably means it is good. Paradoxically it also made me forget about it somewhat.
But I really have an urge to try NixOS for myself... And I don't really want to mess with my parents setup now.
Yeah I can understand not wanting to mess with something that works
I would recomment Mint to users who use their Computer for more than just Webbrowsing. If its just webbrowsing and you know Linux, try setting up Fedora silverblue. In my vm's two digit passwords work.
I don't know if something changed but you can use even 4 digits now.
I've found that OpenSuse Tumbleweed is better than both Ubuntu and Linux Mint.
They set out to make a distro that is kept up to date perpetually instead of managing different versions.
You gave Ubuntu to your grandmother and she fucking died?
OMG, Linux kills grandmothers!
(I know, I quit Windows around 95, it's just that I couldn't resist)
Have you tried turning it off and back on?
I don't because I don't wanna be that guy.
But in general these days, I'd absolutely recommend it. Anything in the debian family is just as easy to use as windows. As long as you hook them up with some good cron jobs for auto updates and rollbacks on failures and stuff, they'll be right as rain.
To be clear, I wouldn't have in like 2015.
As long as the distro is stable anyone can use it to use a browser and browse the internet. I had put Ubuntu Linux for my mom on a laptop, back in 2010, she was using just the browser. She had it for 2 years, no problems. She did nothing else with that laptop though, because that was the first time she was using a computer. She was mostly facebooking.
Exactly. My parents have been using Linux for years, they have no technical expertise, and most of the time they don't need it. For the average user, I find linux more stable than windows.
ngl, the "switch to linux" crowd is close to a vibe of complaining that "my car is making some weird sounds" and the response is to "buy a new car!" I mean, it would solve the problem of not having that issue with windows/your car, but it also means you have to intrusively replace your workflow and probably find some entirely new programs to do what you already could, and potentially have many new, less explicable problems, just to not have that one tiny problem that you could live around.
Often it's worse. It like telling people to move to a different country because the roads are better there.
As a petrol head, that is a very convincing argument to move.
Car is making some weird sounds -> you slipped a bearing, your head gasket is blown, or something else catastrophic, because you bought a Ford/Kia/etc. -> buy a new car
Ehh
More like someone saying
"Then change the station"
When someone complains
"I don't like the ads on this radio station that I listen to in my car on the drive home"
There's no financial loss by doing so, it's relatively easy, just have to find out which frequency another broadcast you like is playing on
Well... I jokingly told my friend to switch to Linux - that guy switched and I can attest to it that he is much happier now 😁
I love Linux, but it's my job. When I go home I just want the simplicity of Windows. Thanks to tons of useless certifications it does exactly what I tell it to do.
When family wants a new OS install I don't suggest Linux or even mention it's existence. They get a version of Windows 10 with the bloat ripped out and the inability to upgrade to Windows 11. 90% of tech support calls have been stopped.
What friends I have attempted to convert usually go back to Windows due to Nvidia driver issues but as we move forward and gaming becomes less of a hurdle maybe we'll see more converts. Especially if Windows keeps pushing their whole cloud OS thing.
Okay, I'll bite. I've been trying Linux every few years for the last few decades and it's never been anywhere close to replacing Windows for me. I'm not a luddite; I was in tech for many years (MCSE certified) but there just... ALWAYS something that doesn't work right. And there's NEVER a simple fix. Linux for me ends up being more of a hobby than a tool and I haven't had the time or patience to deal with it in the past.
But I'm willing to try again,
Anyone have any resources to get me pointed in the right direction? Which distro to try, how to install as a dual-boot on an exiting Windows machine without breaking it, how to get Steam/Nvidia drivers/games going, etc?
EDIT - Apparently trying to dual boot with Windows on a machine with two physical drives is too much to ask (unless you have a CS degree). Maybe next time, Linux.
Linux will only be the solution when it finally learns to adequately cater to a better class of idiots. Once Linux handles a fool as well as Windows, then we can talk.
Pretty much. I'd absolutely love to run an idiot proof distro. If one existed.
Mint is right there. Very foolproof as far as I've tested with family and friends.
Yeah right. I tried Linux Mint, and I had so many problems I had to switch to KDE Neon. Admittedly like half of them were related to Nvidia, but lots of people have Nvidia.
Even if I'm an outlier, I don't think you understand what foolproof means. Maybe you set if up for them and they've never had to touch it, but most people don't have that luxury, and also will probably need to touch it at some point.
I've never used it with a Nvidia card, was speaking mostly about mine and my family's experience. I don't currently know the state of Nvidia support on Mint at this moment, whether with the proprietary or open source drivers, so can't give you any info on that.
About being foolproof, it's about being easy to use without having many footguns, not about being bug free.
But how is it easy to use? It's easy to use once it's set up I guess, as long as you don't touch it. But again, most people will need to touch it I feel like, to install some software or something like that. Even if all you do is update every now and then, I have had updates that just completely break things, forcing me to roll back to a Timeshift snapshot, multiple times. I wouldn't call that easy to use.
I mean, I guess if your family had no major problems, they had no major problems. I just can't figure out how they would've managed that.
What Mint install did you have that had that many issues? Installing apps has been easy for a long time already, just open the app store and pick what you need. Updates is the same thing: app store > update. Whenever something breaks for some reason, there are auto-created rollbacks on the boot menu. My partner is far from being a techie and they managed every daily operation without needing help from my part.
I think we had vastly different experiences, probably because of hardware or release differences, but I never saw the kind of issues you're commenting :/
Stuff KDE man, use xfce, only thing KDE would be good for is the telly
It's what I have installed on my parents computer. Somewhat painful to do any sort of development in it though.
It's really not primed for development. I'd use Arch, Fedora, openSUSE or Debian for that.
Indeed. I've been on Arch for a few years, and it's great 99% of the time.
But I really hate how sometimes you sit down to work and something broke and you have to tinker to figure out why instead of focusing on what you want to focus.
That's the reason why I don't main Arch. I'm already past the point where I have all the patience to tinker the conflicts away.
You'd think so, but like my experience with other distros people suggest as more stable has been even worse. I've never tried Debian, but I swear, next time this breaks down I'm going for that one and being happy with my packages from 1997.
Can I use Photoshop/lightroom and all the other software I need for work and play yet?
Can you use windows software on Mac or Android? It's a different OS, tho wine and proton can make Photoshop and Lightroom work, it's hit or miss tho. Most games work too save anti-cheat ones for some reason.
It wasn't trying to be snarky, just genuinely asking because I'd love to switch to Linux and check in now and then but until I can safely work with heavy graphics processes on it reliably, I can't switch. Main tools are DaVinci Resolve, Photoshop+LR, Blender, and Inkscape. For personal I make music with Bitwig (which has a Linux version I know that) and some other stuff, and I game on it now and then (drone simulator on Steam with a radio controller on usb, sometimes a bit of WoW), but these days I mostly game downstairs on the Xbox anyway.
Same here. I've been very interested in Linux for a long time but until creative/professional apps are available and reliable on Linux, it'll be contained in a VM for now.
I can't speak for Lightroom but Photoshop works through wine and Davinci resolve and blender is native on Linux. Source: I'm an artist using krita and blender on Linux. Also I use darktable as a substitute for Lightroom.
Edit: specifically Photoshop 2018, but i use krita since i already use it for digital painting anyway.
Yeah as you can maybe tell from the list, I've already been trying hard to go to alternative/open source replacements to most of Adobe's lineup but PS+LR is the engine behind the day to day work and I couldn't find something to truly replace it just yet. The new AI stuff they're bringing into PS isn't going to make it any easier to ditch lest you'll be left behind the competition..
I'll look at darktable, does it integrate well with PS? I need it to merge to HDR, and open as layers into PS.
It's because anti-cheat is essentially a kernel level rootkit spying on your computer.
Gaming through Steam/Proton is easy and performant, but some games have invasive anti-cheat that won't work on Linux, and some game companies turn Linux support purposely off.
Photoshop and Lightroom both probably work through Wine (or maybe even Proton), but it isn't guaranteed. Best option is to work with alternatives. I switched from PS to Krita years ago and have been happier than ever with the switch.
There are many resources on Linux software that are alternatives (and often compatible with) windows-only software.
Doesn’t even have to be a "class of idiots". It would be enough if stuff didn’t just sometimes break, seemingly randomly. (It’s not quite random, obviously.)
Recent example: I had OpenSuse TW recommended because of its reliability. First tip: install codecs, which requires adding the Packman repository. Now, simply updating threw up errors several times because Packman and the other repositories are apparently not in sync, and some dependencies would break if I updated. (Waiting a few days "fixed" it, but still shouldn’t happen.)
Depending on which update method you use (Yast/Discovery/zypper/update widget) you get different error messages, most of which are not informative. This is for an established distribution known for its reliability, and this alone would keep me from ever recommending it to normal users, even moderately tech-savvy ones.
Things are getting better, but I’m still shopping around for a distro that just works. Perhaps that new Fedora version, or one of the immutable ones, now that they are getting popular.
Ubuntu does this well with gnome shell, where it's more like using a mobile device that a desktop. To be truly idiot proof you just need to prevent actually interesting software from being installed :D
I have linux at work. Colleagues use windows. They always tell me to change back to windows when I en ounter problem. I won't install spyware.
As someone who has had been around Linux-based people and whenever I have had a single gripe about Windows - it's this.
I don't have a hate boner with Linux, I just feel like Linux is a little too much for the average casual user. Everything is fine until they run into a single issue with Linux, if the bewilderment of not having their familiar easy to run programs that they had on Windows wasn't a turn off for them from the get-go.
This is the way
This is the way
Windows issues?
I have almost my whole family on opensuse tumbleweed and even my mom can hit the update button in the notification panel. One brother on arch and the other on windows. Guess which computer I'm reluctant to touch even with gloves on. And it has nothing to do with the operating system, it's genuinely disgusting.
Arch be in them context clues.
My guess your brother with Linux? It's probably used as a wank machine with privacy feature built-in no need to worry Microsoft looking into your browser history lmao.
Every time I try Linux on my own, it's fine. But God forbid I ever use any device that comes with Linux pre-installed, and I'm cursed. I'm on my third steam deck after it software bricked itself, and our university Linux server is so unstable that it disconnects my session with vim every 30 minutes or so. Pain. At least there's a method to the madness: trust nobody but myself :P
Screen and tmux are your friends in this situation. They can keep your vim session alive when your SSH connection drops, so you can reconnect and continue where you left off.
Screen change my relationship with linux. Amazing tool (once you disable vbell)
I'm using Byobu, which is (apparently) a wrapper for screen and tmux, providing things like sensible hotkeys (F2 new tab, ctrl+F2 vertical split etc).
Granted, I haven't used regular screen or tmux, so I'm not sure what they have compared to byobu. Someone just said to use it, and I never went back.
Oooh, I might have to give that a shot tonight. Thanks!
Have you tried using Mosh? It's the "Mobile Shell" which was built to survive the dodgey connections of WiFi, mobile/cell and long distance SSH connections. Well worth a look if you're having problems with a disconnecting shell.
It's available on all versions of Linux, iOS, Mac and Android.
Might have to give that a rip! Thank you :)
Holy hell, three Decks? How did they get bricked? I've had mine since the second shipment batch and beyond some very early software issues it's been pretty solid.
Yeah, the first one was DOA, the second (in the most amazing of ironies) started downloading an update by itself, which dropped my game down to 10fps. When I restarted the deck and the update applied, it corrupted everything so badly that even the BIOS wasn't left intact. Nothing I did or valve support could do could bring it back, even with reflashing the OS. And while I might be a moron, I've also been building/watercooling PCs and tinkering with OSs for well over a decade. That deck was bone stock and on stable channel xD
I'm on my third one now, and so far it's been smooth sailing...mostly. I still haven't put a screen protector on it, because I think that jinxed my last two, lmao. Thank God everything is backed up.
You are one unlocky SOB. The worst I have had is SteamOS breaking itself on me once.
I am, but I kinda bring it upon myself by getting niche equipment that usually is far outside the norm or not ready for prime time. It's whatever, haha.
I got my Steam Deck 3 months after they first started shipping and mine didn't brick itself until earlier this year soooo
Hey I had an old Samsung I bricked and unbricked at least four times once
Bird 1: I have some trouble with Linux.
Bird 2: Whistles and flies off…
Really though, switch to Linux.
Windows sucks but no one seems to realize this because they're too comfortable with how they fix, or work around, the broken stuff repetitively. The repetitiveness of the bad experience becomes "normal" so nothing is amiss. It being broken is "normal" so in their eyes it "just works"TM. It's almost like a form of brain washing.
It really is akin to people in domestic abuse situations who are just so numb to it they aren't motivated to get out.
Maybe we should be taking a book from domestic abuse counseling or something?
After I installed Linux on all my family laptops all OS problems was "surprisingly" desapeared.
Because they don't work or because they don't know how to use them anymore? ;)
No one's opened their laptop in months, not a single issue to fix, that's what we call problem solving!
I can only imagine the shit show that would commence if I put Linux on my mom's laptop
Mom sms: It's asking for permissions again, I forgot my password!
Me: It's in the notebook, mom.
Mom: I can't find the notebook!
Me: Last I saw it, it was on the coffee table.
Mom: Found it!
...
Mom: It doesn't work!
Me: Are you looking at the brown notebook or the pink one?
Mom: Yes!
Me: Yes what? Are you in?
Mom: Yes, I have a notebook and the password doesn't work!
Repeat forever.
You could disable admin password. I know you can do it for sudo by editing sudeors file, so there must be a way to do it for graphical prompts too.
I mean live ISOs don't have login passwords so it must be doable for a full install
Actually they do, it's just set to login automatically on boot. If you manually log out you have to enter a password to login again.
I was talking about disabling sudo password rather than login password anyway.
At least the Mint live ISO doesn't have password. When you lock the OS there, you don't enter a password and just press Enter to log back in. At least I think it was the Mint ISO
Some definitely do, interesting to see mint dosen't.
"How do I connect to my printer?"
Cups
Like magic.
First time I agree with the Raven. Switch to Linux!!! Windows is just a shitshow, we all watch and can't believe they are doing this. Win 11 will bring us one of the biggest hardware-waste ever in a world where we should spare with resources.
But hey, throw that 4GB RAM machine in the trash bin everyone wants Win11. So glossy and shiny, so hot right now.
Unfortunately I've definitely been the raven at least once.
That used to be me. Now whenever someone ask me to fix their computer I'm like "no hablo windowes"
Of course I know him, that's me!
It's not coming completely out of nowhere. The fact that you're having a discussion on Lemmy means the people you're conversing with are aware that you're willing to consider libre alternatives to shitty mainstream tech.
Reddit fucked it a lot harder than Windows has though, Windows might do annoying stuff but it does work and I don't need like, a Windows is fun app to make it do what I want it to. Mostly.
I at least modify the layout Windows to be more like 7.
Right. Yes. I limit this behavior to Lemmy. And definitely not unprompted at random social gatherings.
I used to suggest linux to my friends and family but i stopped doing that as i found none of them actually cared what OS they ran. They also have a misunderstanding that Linux is very complex and difficult to use.
Yeah not a very big fan of trying to get people to switch platforms especially if they are non-technical as if they A) have the mental bandwidth to change their whole workflow paradigm to appease someone else’s ideals, and B) even have a use case where Linux is an option
Anyone’s negative feelings for Windows and Office’s telemetry or Apple’s walled garden is justified but if I do know what Linux is, I didn’t decide to use Windows because I wanted to lick bill gates’ boots, I have a specific use case. And if I don’t know what it is, I probably need the OOB usability that Windows and OSX offer
I've been trying to switch to Linux for 30 years now and am still trying to figure out permissions. Best of luck!
Why? So I can have more trouble? :P
I did. But then I just ended up having to google how to fix linux issues nonstop so I switched back
Replace some troubles, with different troubles. Brilliant, as usual...
Try turning it off and on again and then try switching to Linux.
God bless, it happens in the other direction too.
I've had my own problems with Linux, it mostly depends which problems you prefer
Most birds have trouble with windows. Especially when they are polished and super shiny
Where did you get this picture of me?
SWITCH TO LINUX
The problem is windows
Gonna have to upgrade to DOS I'm afraid
You don't have to even use Windows. Even Ubuntu will do sometimes lol
Pop!_OS has made things even easier than Ubuntu now. At least from a default look, feel, and getting started quickly perspective.
True. Ubuntu was certainly matched and even surpassed in these areas. But you'll always have people who are like "just switch to this XY distro they don't have that problem" who are just as loud lol
Yet to try this
Oh, I'm sorry. Is there supposed to be some kind of joke here??? This strikes me as perfectly reasonable!
Literally me at work
It actually works
Mfw I hit the limit of Windows pathing.
Yea, when this happens I am the crow in the meme.
Me too.
Please try linux mint, it truly is an exellent and nearly bullet proof OS. Pretty much the most popular distro so theres a good chance if you ever do run into an issue or want to know something its not hard to find the info you need with a simple query. No driver jankiness or hardware support issues ive ever experienced either.
Mints cinnamon desktop environment is very different to Plasma KDE. You may find it more pleasant to use. What are you unhappy about with your current distro and what makes you want to move back to windows
Maybe I'm an old dog now, but the new GNOME and KDE desktops kind of grate on me just like the new Win10 does
Seconding Linux Mint for transitioning Windows users, especially with the Cinnamon DE. They'll wonder why they ever hesitated.
No need to fully distrohop, just install Cinnamon
I would suggest Fedora KDE spin or Opensuse. Both have KDE as first class citizen.
I mean if their problems were Plasma-specific, it might also be a good idea to try Gnome or something instead.
True but I would go with Mate, Budgie or XFCE because I'm an old fashioned guy :) The new (now it's old I guess) gnome philosophy hasn't made a lot of sense to me on a non-touch device.
Exactly, it feels gimmicky as hell and barely workable when you need to start dealing with more than one ahem, window or boxes of stuff to look at
🤣 Gnome 2 was so usable. I wasn't a fan of KDE (3 at that point?) because it felt too complicated.
I dual boot just so I can still have programming software for many of my ham radios. Planning on getting a graphics card soon and then I'll use windows for that and fallout 🥴
I would love to switch completely to Linux, but the Engineering software I use is specific to Windows and their certified drivers (Solidworks). However, my home computer may get the switch sooner than later! I love how well SteamOS works and now I want it on my main machine.
Don't listen to the raven. Switch to BSD!
VIM VIM VIM
I use macOS for Work, Linux for Personal stuff, Windows for Gaming. I still prefer Linux to anything. It's lightweight, FOSS, privacy respecting and fast. I have mint installed on my 11 yo laptop, and it still kicks like a warhorse during web development.
Unless Linux starts getting support from game developers, I'm not switching
I bought a Steam Deck and got Win 11 up and running on an external SSD just to piss off the raven. :)
The fact is that certain things require Windows, and yeah, you might be able to jump through some hoops to get them to kinda/sorta run under Linux, but if you have a hard time with Windows, you'll never be able to do that in Linux.
I really need to update my chromebook to linux one of these days.
You know ChromeOS is Linux, right? It's super easy to put a different distro on. You're totally up for it, a few hours max and you're good to go.
How do you do this? When I was putting Linux on Chromebook you had to do firmware mods that entailed taking the laptop apart to get it to work properly.
Yeah, some have a screw that turns off the firmware lock.
Needs a special key for the screw does it?
Don't they lock down the bootloader on some Chromebooks?
Ive tried to update it several times in the past using the linux installer that comes built in, yet each time it has failed. I need to open it up and then find some files for it.
Really? I have a somewhat (six years) old Acer chromebook, and I had to flash a custom bios on it to install Linux. It wasn't terribly hard, and the guides on the internet were really good. It still took a couple of hours, but it wasn't as easy as installing Linux on a Windows machine... That may have changed since then (two years ago) but it was a learning experience and I personally enjoyed tinkering and getting it all installed. I now have a Chromebook running EndeavourOS.
I'm that guy LOL
I'm not like this!!!
I am though
And strong!
Steam os? Isn't it nix?
Mass acceptance on the desktop will never happen for Linux and the Linux community itself is mostly the problem. For the same reason why open source software, for the most part, is just so god awful (with a few fantastic examples). It is software written by developers, for developers with little consideration for users. It tends to be clunky and counterintuitive.
Felt called out by someone
Perfect advice!
Walter...
Im gladly to help!!
A tale as old as time.
I remember back in the early 2000s when I first got into IT. My manager at Burger King was one of those Linux guys and he tried to get me to install Gentoo. And his status message in MSN Messenger (probably used Pidgin too) was “In a world without windows, who needs Gates?”
I think this has mostly died down with PCs becoming less common than phones.
Is Mint suitable for Surface Book 3? I started digging and it seemed Arch was mostly working but I don't think I'm ready for that...
Also mention that you use Arch
Pop os wolnt let me use my gpu so there's that
MX Linux ftw!
Good idea though.
how do these two birds interact in the first place?
I have some trouble with WSL...
I have some trouble with Hyper-V Networking...
I have some trouble with Ubuntu in Hyper-V running Druid with docker-compose...
Clearly software isn't the problem, it's me.
Those all involve Microsoft products for running Linux within Windows. Please think before you type...
Lol that's my point, people try to use all of these tools to run Linux on windows, when they should just run Linux 😅
...I mean.... if you -STILL- want to use Windows (and only) Windows at current date, Year of Gaben 2023? Then you either need a reality check or to stop being -THAT- lazy.
well, i'd love to switch but not everything i want to play / use is on linux. and honestly- i can't be bothered to use 2 different OS. will switch once everything i use is available tho.
2022 and 2023 I made multiple decent attempts to go Linux and I've finally ragequit back to Windows where things finally just work. Currently using WSL for my Linux needs.
So many frustrating hours.
Conclusion for me: Windows is best DE, so use Windows+WSL
I'm a bit sad about it because I'm getting more and more frustrated with Windows 11 direction. It seems each update brings a new configuration or "feature" that makes things more difficult for me.
I do feel I am being pushed out of Windows.
For about the last 10 years I try going Linux roughly every 3 years. So I'll give it another shot in a couple of years.
I fully understand for some people it just works. But it is not yet my personal Year Of Linux Desktop
I'm sorry to hear that you've had a poor experience with trying to migrate to Linux. It is a big switch in terms of how the OS is structured and how things work. Unfortunately the out of box experience of Linux on personal laptops and desktops can be quite poor for commonly recommended distros like Ubuntu especially if you want to game.
This might be contentious with some people but if you or anyone is feeling adventurous and in the mood to try to understand how Linux works, I would recommend Arch. It gives you the reins to setup and configure your system how you wish. I would however try it in a VM first before going dual boot or as your sole driver.
I've tried many Linux distros over the years (Mint, Ubuntu, Centos, etc) but Arch has been the most stable and enjoyable to use. I have one install from 2013 that's still going strong. Nvidia drivers or Steam can be installed without setting up PPAs or downloading binaries as one might need to do on other Linux distros. Most third party apps I would want are available through the Arch User Repository (AUR). The Arch wiki is amazingly useful for any Linux user.
Most games I play work through Steam or Lutris with the latest Proton from https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom
Thanks for your reply.
I've heard many people mentioning EndevourOS and I think that's based on Arch?
EndevourOS was top of my list to try next time I'm willing to give Linux another shot.
The most interesting distro I tried was MicroOS (opensuse immutable). I really liked the immutable concept, keeping the base OS clean and mess around inside containers. Very cool
I haven't heard anything bad about Endeavor in the same way people slam Manjaro for their poor management of an Arch based distro. It'd be worth a shot I think. Rolling release distros like Arch can provide a very nice up-to-date user experience vs major releases, which I have never had much luck with on Linux.
I've never heard ofMicroOS, but have heard of OpenSUSE. It sounds like it would be useful for servers and maybe if you want to do some software development where you'd want to use containers for building and running your app. I'll have to check it out.
https://itsfoss.com/content/images/2023/06/June-2023.png
Real competitors compete, let me know when Linux breaks 3% market share.