A fellow Jacques Herbin aficionado?

Now before I forget, for the future, I would recommend investigating test tubes: you can plug them to keep the ink from spilling or evaporating, shake them to mix, and use them to fill up your pens, keep them upright. They have two major drawbacks though: still can't finish ink from them, and they don't protect from light. Also, for this kind of fill, I find it easier to pull the feed out and fill from the section than mess with the piston.

Now, when you want to mix inks, you need to remember one important aspect of the human eye: it is twice as sensitive to green as it is to blue (give or take), and when you think about that, you can understand how blue our planet truly is, or how grey plants might actually be.

Also, mixing inks should be fine if you use inks from a same brand, because that's basically what inks are: a mix. But it's a good idea (so one I disregard of course) to not mix dye based with pigment based, because that's when things go a little unstable, separate, or have odd reactions. Don't get me wrong, you can get shifting hue from mixing two dye based inks from a single brand, but it's nothing a good shake can't fix, usually.

If you really want to start mixing inks, you should check out magnetic stirrers. And no, I'm genuinely not trying to be an enabler.

I don't find your green and blue result to be that surprising: you mixed a green that's pretty yellow, with a very dark blue that sheens red, so when you think about it, it sort of checks out.

What I find, maybe not funny per se, but intersting, is that I'm fairly confident we could find the resulting mixes in Herbin's lineup. It's hard to say for sure, but I think your purple might be their Poussière de lune, your orange could match their Rouille d'encre, your resulting light black seems close to their Gris galet, although your green... Lierre sauvage maybe?

Also, you don't have to fill up your pen, you can also use it as a dip pen (provided it's empty and clean).

And I'm with you on the distinctions: I have a bunch of black inks, but some of them are black, and some of them are... slightly darker black.

Edit: typo

"Someone capitalized the first letter of every word in a sentence".

I did indeed forget about the steel springs inside the cap, but the cap itself is plastic, at least on mine. And it never feels cold to the touch. There are also flow and stretch marks from the molding and ejection process respectively, so it's rather unequivocal. The paint is pretty well done so it does look metallic, I have to give it to Jinhao: they do make wonderful paints (the 85 is also magnificent in metallic blue and gold).

Which one did you take in the picture, the "Limited" edition or the normal one? That's really curious they would have different materials, but nothing crazy for Jinhao.

For me it started because it was mandatory in first grade, so starting to use them was not my choice. Then I stuck with it because the ink choices were boundless, which wasn't (ans still isn't) feasible with other pens (even if I do re-ink Uniball Deluxe pens with fountain pen inks), that's what kept me using them when I was a kid, and is also something I thoroughly enjoy still to this day.

Then there is the fact that nibs are much smoother, so less fatigue and more enjoyment in using them. Nibs also offer variety in size and shape that can't be matched. Using them, I can write a lot faster, more legibly and for longer.

There is also the less technically relevant aspect of aesthetics. If we overlook the kaküno, preppy and the likes, there is no arguing that they are more satisfying to look at and hold in hand.

I have used them my whole writing life, and even if do occasionally use the odd BIC cristal, or some gel pens, fountain pens are, have been and always will be my main writing instruments. I have around 25-30 inks and 70+ pens, I use around a half liter of black ink per year (I have plenty of other colors, but they see less consistent use, so it's much harder to track), so I can see I use them a LOT, and using disposable pens feels extremely wasteful.

On the rare occasion that I have to use a gel pen for the day, a full refill for a Uniball S207 or comparable pen barely lasts the day, and it can happen that one does not even last the whole day. I do write and sketch a lot for work sometimes, and while these are uncommon examples, they are significant enough that they are a factor in not relying on gel pens... except when I don't have a choice (and I usually pack two spare refills).

Outside of fountain pens, no pen can write the same as a J. Herbin Emeraude de Chivor, that shading and shimmering is just not achievable otherwise. And yes, this is my favorite ink, even if there are plenty I do love. But the breadth of colors and effects achievable for daily writing is just completely out of reach of any other form of pen.

Granted, all that has a cost, not just upfront; but also in terms of finding paper that works with the inks one desires to use. Though, where I live, high quality paper is very affordable (3,50€ for a Rhodia 80 sheets in 90g/m² velum for instance), so I am lucky enough not to have to worry about that aspect.

Edit: typo

The blue of the actual sea of Okinawa and the red of a sunset over it? Ostrich's color naming scheme is generally rather nebulous.

While you will never catch me saying Parker makes great pens, I do not experience that at all, I have regular, predictable ink flow. What kills me about this one is that it has the same nib as the Waterman Philéas (just in gold rather than steel, but they are interchangeable), but the Philéas is so much better; it's lighter, better balanced and silky smooth.

Is it an issue you have investigated? Did you try multiple inks, across multiple brands? Is it with a specific color?

Usually, between 6 and 8, but when that question arose last year, I had 14. I try not to go too crazy to avoid spending too much time on cleaning. Right now, I have 9:

• Waterman Expert with J. Herbin Perle noire (my mainstay dye based black ink with Waterman's black)
• Waterman Exception with J. Herbin 1670 Emeraude de Chivor (yes, I daily this ink)
• Waterman Allure with J. Herbin Bleu des profondeurs
• Pimio 916 EF (the red and gold one, fifth one, top row, first picture) with Noodler's ink X-Feather black, diluted to 50% with distilled water
• HongDian 517D EF with Jinhao's 5001 black, diluted to 60% (same for all the pens using this ink)
• Jinhao 85 EF (the right blue and gold from the first picture, bottom row) with the same batch of diluted Jinhao black
• Pilot Explorer M with the Jinhao black
• Wing Sung 601A (which is not pictured) with Ostrich 555 diluted to 50%
• Pilot Custom 74 F with Ostrich sheen Sea of Okinawa diluted to 80% (tiny bit less sheen, but way brighter on the page)

But I also have two drawers full of ink bottles and a big storage container that barely closes, with more inks and various converters and needle tipped bottles I use to refill cartridges and converters; last time I counted, probably in 2021 or thereabout, I had above different 30 inks in stock, and that was before I tried Chinese inks, and I bought quite a few of them. The Jinhao ones are pretty good across the board, except their brown that is kind of pink in the pens I tried it with, and Ostrich has crazy good stuff too, their sheen series in particular is amazing, because they're not just cheap, but they're usable, except the Glen of the sea, but this one is insane.

If you want to talk inks, I'll be right there with you, even if I write mostly with black inks.

Also, even if it seems like a bit of a large collection, it's not an expensive one, most of the good pens in my collection are single digit prices (at least in euros), while the most disappointing to me have been the expensive ones (mostly the Parker, Platinum and Pilot, as if the letter P was a bad omen).

Regarding your comment about number of inks compared to number of pens, please don't take this as enticement to go buy more pens, but I think you could be depriving yourself of one aspect a diverse collection of pen can bestow upon you: how different one ink can look in different pens and how unpredictable that can be.

For instance, the Ostrich sheen Sea of Okinawa, it's a bright blue with red sheen, nothing crazy, and it's an actually good daily ink in my opinion, but I digress: in my Exception (rather broad for size medium nib and a very wet one), one could expect it to show more sheen and show darker than with something like the Custom 74 in F I have it in right now, but no, the result is the opposite of what I would have thought. It shows darker in the Pilot than the Waterman, and and the sheen is rather flat and uniform. It also shows very little shading. And that's why I diluted it, to force it to show brighter in the thinner Pilot. The Waterman even shows some haloing, that has never shown in any other pen I have tried the ink in, most likely because it's the broadest non stub nib I have.

So you'd think a broader nib should make it look brighter and sheen more, even if it's a wetter one, at least I did, but I was wrong: I tried it in the Picasso (or Pimio, whichever name you prefer) 902 with the M nib, which happens to be close to the Waterman M. The shade of blue is rather close, a bit darker despite not being as wet, but the sheen isn't, it's flatter and shows less variation than.

And one that has been "crazier" is the Jinhao blue-black/black-blue/dark blue/deep blue (depending on whether you check the bottle, the box, official literature, in English or Chinese). This is an ink that I think was meant to mimic the Parker Quink blue black, but the color looks vastly different in different pens. In a Jinhao 35 EF for instance, it looks identical to the Quink. But in a Hero 1079 superfine, it looks like a warmer blue, not quite teal, more gray, almost like it gained an aged yellowish hue. In a Pimio 902 M, it looks like a darker, deeper blue, none of that grayish blue you'd expect from a blue-black. And that happens across the board on all paper types I have used them on.

So, what I'm trying to say is, I guess I care about inks too?

Test tubes are really worth it is you want to mix inks often AND want to use them to fill a piston pen (or vac, sac, etc), but if your jars work, they work, plus they can stand up straight on their own.

Well, Herbin is, as far as I am aware, the company that has been making ink the longest (228 years so far), so they have quite a bit of experience. Prior to that they were already trading in pigments and making colored seal waxes, so even then, they didn't start from scratch. Depending where you shop, they can also be super cheap, if you buy the plastic 100mL bottles of their normal inks (not shimmers or special editions), they can be had at around 13-14€ depending on the color, so still cheap AND very cheap per unit of volume. Though not all their inks exist in that format (Bleu calanques for instance isn't made in 100mL).

As long as you mix inks, and not dyes, and dye based inks only, even making 1L at a time shouldn't be a big deal. I mean... it might get cumbersome or tiresome if you go overboard eventually. For separation, it can happen that you'd get some color shift once inside the pen, after resting for a while (like a day or longer) one of the inks you used shows up first when you start writing, then it turns into the proper mixed color, but there is no way to tell whether it will happen until you try, though keeping to a single brand usually prevents this. And even shaking the pen wouldn't prevent that because it happens in the feed for the most part.

But if we're talking about mixing ink from dyes (or even worse, pigments), then this is when the stirrer comes in handy, because dealing with mixing pastes to water is rather time consuming, and doing it by hand wouldn't yield good results, because not only do you risk having clumps of dye floating in there, but you wouldn't be able to have a predictable hue if you haven't mixed in all the dye.

I have had somewhat bad separation when trying to make a pigment based warm, dark brown. I used a red, a brown and a black, and it acted really odd: the center of a stroke had a streak of pure black, the edges had the red come out and sometimes even feather out alone, then the rest was proper brown. Shaking the pen before writing limited the effects, but depending on the paper, the black streak or the red feathering would still always come out. That batch made me give up mixing pigment myself, it's too annoying to deal with as a DYIer.

Human eye color sensitivity is only relevant to plan out your mixes, or understand what will or has happen, nothing further.

I actually made a mistake, I don't have an IM, it is a Premier, I always make that mistake, but I have only had that pen for something like... 15 years. I guess that explains why we don't have the same experience. My apologies for the confusion.

I hesitated to tag you, but I opted for the addition of the second part of the title instead.

Although Nitrogen may not be a complete write off, you could try diluting it with distilled water, not directly in the bottle it comes in, but in something else in case you mess up and dilute too much. From what I have read, I would start at 60/40 ink/water. But start as small as is practical for you, not even enough to fill up your eco, and then use it as a dip pen to see how much sheen you still get. Though it seems pretty far from the Sea of Okinawa, Nitrogen seems like a very light Cyan that is super saturated, so diluting it might change the underlying hue to something you won't like.

None. I got one when I initially force primed the feed (by dripping too much ink into the section), and you can still see the residue on the nib, but nothing since then. My guess is that they engage their cap too far onto the section, pushing air out of the seal cup (which is mounted on a spring, so hard to tell when it's good). You'll notice that on my pictures, I don't engage the cap deep enough to cover the three spring ears (little steel wire that sticks out of the blue plastic). My guess is that is why I don't experience that.

It is not really odd per se, your V200 is just wetter than your V126.

I am not yet familiar with the level of knowledge in this community, so please forgive me if I am stating some obvious facts: the amount of ink a pen lays down on paper is referred to as wetness. This characteristic comes from both the feed and the nib, but the nib being the last link, it impacts the pen's wetness the most, and a tiny variation in the tine gap (it is what determines the nib's wetness) will impact the resulting wetness quite a lot.

Wetness is what makes an ink look darker and/or more saturated.

It is odd to an extent though, because usually, within a brand, using the same nibs and feeds, there isn't a noticeable deviation in wetness. And do note that wetness is also an ink quality in the same way it is for a pen. Some inks are considered dry (very little comes out of a known pen), some are wet (at lot comes out). That's something you'll learn with experience.

However, rereading your post, something else came to mind: cap seal. If your pen has a bad cap seal ink can look darker because over time, water evaporates, so it will lay some more saturated/darker looking strokes at first, then eventually go back to normal. I doubt this is at play here, but this is something to keep in mind too when considering saturation/darkness differences between two pens.

I would check the user manual of the derailleur for the cable routing out the derailleur. I don't remember which RD it was, but I installed one on a friend's (gravel) bike, and my dumbass thinking I knew better didn't read the manual and installed as usual, but that specific RD wanted an "odd" route for its cable. I didn't know that because I didn't read, so the friend had bad shifting in the middle of the cassette until I read how I was supposed to do it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a pro missed it because it was a really unusually tight route, and actually doing it solved the unpleasant shifting, even if it's a little unsettling to look at.

If the Jinhao 85 does look appealing to you in any way, and you can find it at a reasonable price where you live (I paid all of mine between 3 and 5€), please don't let the filling system hold you back, they are very good pens on their own, not just as a Parker 51 clone. And they manage to be a lot smoother with their steel nibs than the modern 51 with gold nibs, which I find disgraceful from Parker. Then again, their modern production is dismal.

I would consider the x750 middle of the road for Jinhao, not up to the quality of the more recent models (this one has been around for over a decade), but not awful. But their newer stuff is a LOT better. The exception is the 100, which I find to be a little lower quality than its contemporaries.

Hong Dian and Wing Sung, I have limited experience, 3 pens total, but too far from what I read online that I don't care to try any further. Not bad, but not good enough.

A lot of Chinese companies still stick to the old ways of no QC and replace when the customer is unhappy. This isn't specific to the pen world. Though for a lot of Chinese pen companies, there is also the fact that their newer designs are also intrinsically better, higher quality overall, but not necessarily with changes in QC, just better design and manufacturing. The only Chinese pen company I know to have very tight QC across the board is Pimio. Hero also has some good QC on some of their stuff, but they also have lousy QC on other pens.

Also, when buying Chinese pens, or anything Chinese really, I would very strongly advise to check AliExpress first, because they'll very likely be a LOT cheaper than Amazon. But even if they're closer in price, you'll often get a lot more choice in colorways, nib sizes, finishes, etc.

It is, to an extent, a normal and expected behavior for sheen inks: they tend to be more saturated (sometimes, a LOT more), so they'll usually have a much harder time flowing and they will crust up your nib; the more sheen, the more those happen. And sometimes it's so bad the manufacturer will load them up with ammonia to make it flow at all. That means feathering is a lot more likely to happen too.

The smear is also a product of the saturation, there is such a high concentration that the dye can't all be absorbed by the paper, and a lot of it will sit on top of the page, and from my own experience with other saturated inks, 20 years will not "dry" it (it is technically dry), and will even be able to imprint itself on another piece of paper with a bit of pressure. Blotter paper will absolutely help a lot, and it costs next to nothing, and you should definitely get yourself some.

My recommendation for a much better ink for similar looks (maybe a bit less sheen though) is Ostrich's sheen series Sea of Okinawa. I have used it a few pens, (Jinhao 88, Waterman Allure, Pilot Custom 74 and Waterman Exception), with no issues, including as a daily. It's the best behaved sheen I have tried so far: no real feathering issues (nothing worse than a typical fountain pen ink, though somehow less than a typical blue), flows well enough even if it's on the drier side, doesn't crust up on your nib, and hasn't stained anything so far in three or four years. It's perfectly usable without having to tune the nib, unless your pen is already pretty dry to begin with. Although as with most sheen inks, you will need the right paper to show its full potential, and it's also a bit of a nib creeper, but if your nib is highly polished, it doesn't happen. Usual prices for an 18mL bottle is around 3-4€ here, and they also have them in 30mL, but at 6-7€, it isn't worth it (the cost of a glass vs plastic bottle).

They also have a more saturated one called Aegean sea, but I have not tried it. And I am not eager to change that after my experience with their Glen of the sea, which is incredibly saturated (looks like the holographic safety ink on various currencies) and sheens on anything including toilet paper (that is only a slight exaggeration), but behaves very poorly: it crusts very quickly and even under the nib, has super dry flow, it imprints on facing pages, it looks like black ink but smears a pinkish purple. I tried to dilute it to 60% with DI water, I tried dish soap, nothing makes it flow well. Despite all that, I still like this ink though, just because of that crazy sheen... well and the intriguing fact that I can't get the purple component to show up on purpose, it's always been accidental. Either way, the Sea of Okinawa behaves so well that I never felt it was warranted to even bother looking for anything else in that shade.

There are also non sheen inks that can sheen on the right paper, like Waterman's Bleu sérénité or J. Herbin's Bleu des profondeurs, but both of these require a rather wet nib and good paper. If you like their base colors, they can be worth a try, though don't expect a crazy sheen, they are very subtle in that respect.

It's a good thing you are making it work.

You could get yourself a few needle tipped squeeze bottles to both fill pens and do ink dilution. All of my inks are in those and it makes like so much easier. I also use them when traveling, air travel is not a problem for them (I still carry them in nested zip locked bags and rolled in paper towels, just in case). I use 10mL, 30mL and 50mL depending on the ink, and I haven't had inky fingers from a fill in eons.

There are 8 colorways on Aliexpress, including this one.

Glad more people get to know about this one.

I have a better image of the sheen, same sample of OP, just a different angle.

I bought a Jinhao 85 when it was very recent (early corona days if I am not mistaken), and it was so good that I now I four of them in different colors, including one that I sanded down to paint myself to match my motorcycle (using the same paint). I love this pen and very much recommend it, it's very smooth, if a little (top) heavy for my taste, though nothing egregious. My oldest one (metallic blue with gold cap) has seen a lot of use, and for a while, became my main pen. I have never had an issue with it. The one thing that bothers me about it is that with the hooded nibs, the feed is glued in the section, so that limits the ink choices due to the inability to take it apart to clean it properly.

I am surprised that you were disappointed in Jinhao pens, at least recent ones, because I have 14 or 15 of them now, and not one of them has been a disappointment, though I know some of their older stuff is a little... dodgy to say the least. In contrast, Wing Sung and Hong Dian pens have never quite matched my expectations from reading online reviews.

There is also the Jinhao 911, lighter and slimmer, but same very smooth nibs. It feels a lot like writing with a pencil in terms of paper touch and feedback. I would also very much recommend this one, given the 2€ or so price point. Crazy good for the price, but does require extra care again, due to the hooded nib.

Do note that they both rely on (included) cartridge converters.