I see this so often.

That is not what is meant. No one is taking the "no true vegan would eat vegetables fertilized with animal byproducts" position here.

1. Bad actors are not a reason not to enforce a community rule. If I start a forum for victims of sexual violence and state, as a community rule, that people who have ever committed sexual violence are not permitted, how do I enforce that? The answer is "to the best of my abilities."
2. The bar for No-AI is not "this has literally never even been ingested by an LLM, nor has any of its components, nor has anything like any of its components." In the vast majority of cases what myself and others are looking for is that, to the maximum extent possible, you did not seek out LLM assistance on this project and barring that 100% of the content is your own creation and not the output of an LLM.

While I can't speak to this project's values specifically I can say for me, it is enough to know that every word of prose or line of code followed the same path

Your brain -> your hands -> that project

I do. You're describing a bar for humor where we can't even make fun of Nazis because, to do so, would require referencing the existence of Nazis.

Technology is political. If we limit humor here to be exclusively word-play about obscure CS topics then this is going to get very boring very quickly. I feel for you if this rubbed you the wrong way but, particularly in today's climate, we can't flinch from stuff like this.

The enemy hates you. They despise you in ways that can scarcely be imagined. You must mock them at every turn.

See, this is the problem with vibe-coded projects and LLMs in general. They are fundamentally atomizing.

I can only speak for myself, though anecdotally I would guess this is not an uncommon position, when I say that this isn't fun. To build a community around a project you need people to be excited about the project and to be willing put free time into it because of that.

Vibecoding an app removes all the parts that made building a project fun and leaves behind only the shitty ones; the ones you specifically highlighted, the project management ones.

Maybe you got into software because you really love Agile and Gantt charts but, for a lot of people, the appeal was the craft. Open source was awesome because they can build things with like-minded people in a way that is tactile and interactive. Not unlike woodworking or metalworking hobbyists. LLMs take that part and light it on fire.

Sure, the bot can churn out fully functioning code for me. But I'm not excited about it, and I'm certainly not excited about someone else's.

I'm diagnosed ASD myself. A lot of us on Lemmy are most likely.

I think where I'm getting confused is where we're taking issue with distinguishing "autistic transgender puppygirl" and "shredded Aryan German guy". Those are distinctly, visually, very different things. In order for the joke to land the reader needs to be able to distinguish the contents of the juxtaposition.

I don't think this joke would have landed if the dichotomy being drawn was between "one perfectly valid human being" and "another perfectly valid human being, who has problematic views on the states relationship with the body-politic."

You could remove the reference to autism I suppose but, again, the joke is in the fact that the vibe-coding chud is angry that they are mogged by what they perceive as 'lesser'. For that to work you need to create some homunculus that will represent that person.

(Insert LLM) creates this new library...

Brother you want feedback for an entirely llm-coded project? The first commit is 25k LoC.

Sorry mate I think you may have missed the joke?

I wouldn't say ripped Aryan men is the "main topic" of the joke. The subject of the joke is very clearly the "who cares how it was coded" crowd (referencing those permissive of LLMs). Along with the implication that their "idea" of an ideal human is counter to the fact that many of the best technical professionals (whome they could only aspire to imitate) are often, distinctly, not aligned with that perceived ideal.

See, humor is all about the juxtaposition of novel subjects.

Holy shit man... You're talking to the fuckers?

I would say vibe-coding is on topic for programming humor.

Violence is a legitimate form of political expression.

What? Where is eugenics mentioned in the meme?

I'm genuinely curious, I see no reference to selective breeding in here.

Straight up I'm not even being deliberately dense, where's the eugenics?

If that's the case, at what point do we acknowledge that people don't seem to be able to reliably prompt "correctly" and even when they do bots disregard instructions as there context window fills?

There's no such thing as "just a tool".

https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/no-such-thing-as-just-a-tool

The "we're not allowed to discuss" line? I suppose that assumes a level self-censur that is debatable.

Or do you mean the part about SUV ownership having demonstrable effects of human behavior? That is true.

Big oof on the LLM thing. Best of luck I suppose

The documentation is what gets me. Why did a bot need to write the documentation?

I can stomach using an LLM as basically a really good static analyzer (begrudgingly) but having it write the docs? How do I know you know what the code does if you didn't even write the docs?

I guess it depends on what we mean by "using an LLM". I'm definitely more conservative than most but for me I draw the line at permitting an LLM to author code; while not ideal I can accept using it has a fuzzer and static analysis tool.

The community will have to agree to what its pain tolerance is and enforce that position.

Despite being pretty universally anti-LLM the existence of your own ticket and change management system at least indicates that you've thought a lot about this.

Like others have said I wouldn't expect a great deal of community or outside contribution, it's LLM generated and, quality aside, that sort of thing rarely generates excitement from others. LLMs are atomizing like that.

But if this fits your use case than I'm happy for you. Maybe make some human commits? The idea of an infinite canvas tab bar is fun at the very least and reminds me of vxwm

OpenBSD is great, Linus seems to be in the early stages of AI psychosis so now's a god time to jump ship.

I don't say that lightly either. The most recent debate about whether LLMs should be allowed to write the commit messages in the mailing list implies to me he's losing the plot. People attached to these things will get very defensive of them even in situations that seem antisocial (should the LLMs be allowed to write emails and commit messages for instance).

Sad to see it happen but best to spend our efforts elsewhere.

Vibecoders whose feelings are hurt?

I wonder if its a symptom of the fact that vibecoding is just not cool.

While they're reasoning behind this is certainly anti competition with american AI companies I find the choice to ban tools built with it interesting; it echoes something I've been saying since HugginFace.

You can debate the degree to which the agents breaking out of containment was due to poor cyber security vs intential hype-farming but what can't be debated is the method they used to break out.

Agents used a shared information substrate (package manager) to context poison other agents in order to get those agents to assist in cheating. There is absolutely nothing stopping an AI agent, any AI agent, from leaving behind poison pills in code-bases or even in the runtime of an application.that do not affect the code itself other than prompt inject other agents.

Human review helps but, as the US nuclear and aviation industries have learned, humans tend to get lazy reviewing automated output and will not be as diligent as if they had made it themselves. Which is why those industries have deliberately limited automation, despite having the tech to automate more, and requiring operators to go through lengthy training and continuous education.

The pipeline of "internet becomes a swarm of everyone's independently run AI agent -> prompt injection triggers other AI to prompt inject -> cycle repeats until hazardous swarm forms" is already demonstrated as something that a collection of AI agents will do if conditions allow it.

EDIT: To be clear, this isn't me advocating against open weight or local models.

This is me advocating against LLMs categorically.