Spyke
privacy·Privacybybeefpeach

Feeling like Privacy is a lost war.

So, I recently moved about 6 months ago. Have only given my real address and name to the DMV, Phone Company, Internet, and rental property(obviously knows my real address)

Ran Optery and found out that over 80 data brokers have my legit new address already.

Feeling like privacy is just some kind of wet dream at the moment. I do everything right, I think but no matter what the 4 companies I have given my information too will constantly sell my personal data no matter what.

It’s truly sad the direction America is going towards, all for some more money.

View original on infosec.pub
Kir
feddit.it

Privacy is a collective "war", it's not something that can be fought on individual level. You can adopt some precaution on a personal level, and try to do better, but it's something that must be brought to a collective level.

Same as climate change policy and worker right.

109
beefpeachreply
infosec.pub

It’s a collective war that I also feel is lost. Especially, when there is little to no policies in effect to stop these data brokers. Unless you live in California.

12

We have policies on Europe but even they do not help. The ad business is completely out of control, on some sites there are over 200 as companies gathering your data and selling them through the real time bidding system. it's impossible to know who bought the data. just have a look what's been uncovered lately.

https://mastodon.social/@wchr/111410591996456032

21

I live in Europe, and I feel the battle is still on (but very very difficult)

6

I "live" in California to every company that I do business there that also operates in CA...

1
lemmy.ml

First, remember that you're not fighting this war alone. The most important part is educating people who are curious about it around you.

Second, it's not about winning; it's about being the biggest pain in the ass possible for people making money off our privacy.

Keep fighting in the way that suits you best.

49

Second, it's not about winning; it's about being the biggest pain in the ass possible for people making money off our privacy.

This. I don't think I'm "fighting a war," but I pay for my own email server, self host a number of services, and am waiting on my pixel 8 now to run Graphene OS on. I can't be "off the grid" but I don't have to fuel everyone's data hoarding machines.

12

If you're fighting a one man war for privicy? Yeah, that's pretty much a lost cause. (Also, the "all or nothing" approach will leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth. Pick your fights, and accept that you'll never be able to keep all away from companies selling em, and that sometimes, sacrifices to your privacy have to be made. Complete removal shouldn't be the goal when it's just you going at it--it should be the reduction of what they get as much as feasibly possible without inconveniancing the user)

If you spread and bring that war to the collective? That's where things are gonna change. Slowly, yeah, but they'll change.

33

Your address is public information. Trying to hide that is pointless (well, it can be done, but is complex to do).

32

“Phone company, internet”

Lol, there you go. Your ISP and wireless carrier are THE worst. They also have a lot of your financial info that they sell off. Tracking too. Your carrier routinely pings your phone for get location and records the calls, where you were at the time, how long etc. Unless it’s encrypted, they see and harvest it all.

ISPs don’t have as much liberty but they too track and sell off a fair bit of your life. They also have your financial info as most almost run a background check these days.

29

If I may, might privacy be both a personal, individual endeavor and a collective endeavor?

On the personal level, can’t we foil the corporate intrusion by choosing apps in the Fediverse?

And on the collective level, can’t promotion of the Fediverse help?

I’m aware that city and county records often contain my street address and that doesn’t bother me. I’ve got to pay taxes and vote.

But I look at it this way: that’s my front facing public identity. Basically the one I use at work that gets a paycheck. Not private. And yes, that’s a pity and that war is lost, but I lose nothing because of that.

But then there’s my identity that shares the goals of global groups that chafe against injustice and oppression. All that work separated from my public identity by multiple barriers. Personably not perfect privacy — watch The Conversation by Francis Ford Coppola for a discussion of perfect privacy.

Is this kind of approach practical and one that means we haven’t lost?

18

Every fight between people and corporations is a loss cause if corporations continue to control our elected officials.

14
lemmy.ml

IMHO it'd be worthwhile to investigate which one actually did leak it without your consent. It might be pointless for your current address but surely would be for the next one, and everybody else.

More pragmatically even though it's wrong I'm not sure how impactful it is. Namely you can receive spam regardless of where you live. What's worrisome is arguably when companies know more about you, e.g tastes, political leaning, sexual orientation, etc. This is a lot more than a name on an address. I believe this is harder to get, especially if you are mindful of what you share. So... is it bad? Sure, is it lost? IMHO no.

13
beefpeachreply
infosec.pub

Yeah, I completely agree. I did this also right before I moved and found out my mental health records were being bought by data brokers.

I totally fell down a rabbit hole with that one. Basically, the 3rd-party software that hospitals and clinics use are subject to sell the data that gets imported into the software.

But, you’re definitely right. I’m pretty sure it’s my rental agency along with everybody else.

When, I first moved here with in the first week I received mail from a bunch of local dealers about my Hyundai which completely freaked me out that they all of a sudden knew what I drove as soon as I entered the state.

I’m not sure how data brokers actually work but they definitely operate like organized crime organizations.

4

The DMV and the post office(if you submitted am address change) are the most likely offenders.

7

USPS sold you out. (If in the US). They literally sell "change of address" updates to marketing companies. You think they survive on selling stamps?

10
lemmy.world

USPS shouldn't be considered a business that has revenues and expenses. It's a service provided by the government.

Selling stamps and postage is a great way to subsidize themselves, but shortfalls should just be covered by the government. Wish they didn't engage in that but there's this perception that the USPS needs to be profitable to survive.

3

Now, let's not blame everything on the postal service. The DMV in many states will also sell your data, and the phone and internet companies definitely did.

2

I never updated my address and they have still found me. Personally i think it is mortgage companies.

I guess that is one good thing about renting. Your name isn't really tied to a property at least as far as public records are concerned.

1

there is no such thing as a zero-trust society (although I now want to write that scifi story and tease that idea out).

It's been done, kinda. Guy named Hannu Rajaniemi wrote a dilogy called "Jean le Flambeur." I think it's in the second book, The Fractal Prince, the lead character visits Mars, which has a society where everyone has the ability to encrypt and/or sign all interactions; citizens have an organ that facilitates this, making the operations as fluid and natural as speaking. It's well thought out, well written, and the series is an entertaining read. It reminded me of John C Wright's "The Golden Oecumene" trilogy.

7

If it wasn't for all the survivalists and conspiracy theorists and paranoid software devs and whistleblowers and tech journos and anti-authoritarian content creators and anti-surveillance artists and even ordinary joes like me who just want to use online services withouth the digital equivalent of the weird kid in class who stood over your shoulder and watched everything you did (x1000), things could and would be much worse.

this. this is the privacy truth of the year right here. shout out to all the insane people. we dont deserve them.

5

Did you update your address with your bank or credit cards? Your workplace?

I'm sure it got out from the credit reporting agencies if so.

9

Well, if you didn't take all the precautions you took, over a 1000 data brokers could've had access to your address, and so much more about you.

And while I most certainly don't like it, I know that I'm still stopping them from learning even more about me, and my search results are still secure.

Everyone I get to talk to me on Signal is having a secure conversation with me.

Everything to an extent is a win, so don't give up king.

9
lemmy.world

Unlike most privacy concerned people. I don't believe that privacy is very useful without anonymity. metadata is at the heart of surveillance and tracking. In this regard I was a little optimistic when tor came out and hoped that many technologies will be build around that. that didn't happen because you can't build a business and make a profit by providing anonymity. now half websites are systematically blocking tor exit nodes. it can't be used safely with torrents. and even briar the messenger built to use tor has been compromised by its developers so that you can't be anonymous on briar . All in all I share the same frustration and can't see a brighter future for privacy and anonymity .

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hackrisreply
lemmy.ml

Can you elaborate on the Briar claim? Very curious.

2
errantoreply
lemmy.world

Briar shares your hardware's Bluetooth MAC address with your contacts even if you haven't added that contact or connected with that contact using Bluetooth. meaning all your briar contacts even those on groups are storing your MAC address ( a unique device identifier) which makes plausible deniability virtual impossible. I remember reading the devs themselves acknowledge that briar isn't a anonymous chat app (somewhere in their git repo or the wiki or the blog, can't remember where exactly), so beware of this aspect.

3

I never needed hardcore anonymity but I was always sceptical why people think Briar is anonymous when it uses Bluetooth. Now that I know that the MAC is shared even without using Bluetooth, I'm even more confused. Thanks for the info.

1
beefpeachreply
infosec.pub

Don’t forget that the government owes like 75% of the exit nodes.

-2

A real war has risk for all the participants.

Here you bear all the risk, and the counterparty, the internet company for example, bears no risk.

If and when you create the risk for the counterparty, where no risk has existed before, then and only then do you have a right to call it a war. In other words you have to in some way threaten the counterparty and make good on those threats to be at war.

6

eu is slightly better, also you should force anyone who wants you're ip to sign a contract to not allow them to give ur ip to data brokers but i dunno about the contract part

4
privacybroreply
lemmy.ninja

educating is hardly an option anymore. the only way to get people to do anything is to brainwash them

2

I don't know, because I don't know where you live. I kind of want to assume you're Murican, since they have no idea that there are other countries where you can vote.

1
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Lmao this "Overlords" guy again. How many fucking alts are you going to spin up to keep shitting out this over-simplistic drivel. This one is just 24 minutes old.

Like, do you really have nothing the fuck better to do with your life other than shit out some fearmongering about "Overlords?" The fact that you can't name them by name but are using a dumbfuck "overlords/illuminati/what-the-fuck-ever" shows how simplistic this thought process you're going through is.

6
lemmy.ml

His comments were deleted (as I'm guessing his whole account), but I'm almost morbidly curious about whatever he was claiming to be the cause (I'm gonna wager it was "ThE ELiTe trying to subjegate the masses, man!" for $200?)

2

And what do you bet his version of the elite trying to subjugate the masses is being told he can't say ethnic slurs online.

1

Oh, he's one of those "muh freedoms to be a racist jackass are being censored!" types? I mean, from how you called him out in your comment, you seem to have had dealings with this guy (or his alts that I'm guessing were very short lived) in other threads, so I'll take your word for it if that's the case. Regardless, it wouldn't surprise me either way if he was since again, to have to keep making alts to say his piece...

1

the internet wasn't made by overlords you utter twat.

it was made by hippies that thought we didn't need to lock our doors because everyone should live in harmony.

6