Microsoft now pops up a poll asking why you'd want to use another browser when you download Chrome
https://www.theverge.com/23930960/microsoft-edge-google-chrome-poll-why-try-another-browserOpen linkView original on lemmy.world1023
Comments336https://www.theverge.com/23930960/microsoft-edge-google-chrome-poll-why-try-another-browserOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
Just use Firefox. Skip all this bullshit.
I use Firefox because I want you use a web browser whose main focus is browsing the web.
Great, because it comes bundled with an extension to show you news article you may be interested in, occasional ads for their other paid services and will regularly nudge you into donating money so that it can be used for many purpose beside improving the browser.
This is interesting, maybe I changed a settingn years ago but when I start fire fix it just takes me to an empty window until I type something in. Doesn’t try to sell me anything
This is my biggest gripe about Firefox. It keeps trying to recommend “Search with Amazon” instead of google search and a bunch of small little ads baked into the home landing page.
Does it send all your data to china, ms, or google?
Seeing that neither Edge nor Chrome does either of those outside of regular browser operations, which also happens with Firefox, I'm not sure how that's relevant.
I really really want to believe in firefox but the corporations behind it are way too fishy.
The whole setup of mozilla foundation and mozilla coporation stinks. Mozilla asking for donations when the donation amount is barely 1 percent of their income.
That's an odd complaint. If they didn't ask for donations, donations would be a lower % of their income. How many donations do you need before you can ask for donations?
It's not a matter of how many donation do you need, it's a matter of why are you asking for donations in the first place. When half the donations barely cover the salary of the head honcho through shifting restricted cash between organizations, you have to have some confidence to prominently display "We exist to advance the interests of people who use the internet — not profit for shareholders." on your summary.
So dont donate?
Mozilla used to be much smaller and did rely on some form of donations to continue development. That may not be the case today, but the option is still there for those who’d like to
If a corporations earns halve a billion. Does it really need donations?
The whole concept of a parent company owning the foundation is fishy. Its just as strange that firefox seems to be like by privacy people when the owners are as instranparent as mozilla.
Firefox is open source. Check it out for yourself or find a fork that works better for you.
The non-profit foundation is the parent company. It has some taxable subsidiaries that, among other things, handle certain revenue-generating business deals.
You say that like it is any better.
A non-profit that owns a for-profit company is very well not realy non-profit. Just because all their profit is made by one of their subsidaries? And yet mozilla stand itself on some kind of moral highground.
All of the profit of the subsidiary goes to the nonprofit parent, in furtherance of its nonprofit mission. The subsidiary doesn't exist to make anybody rich but just to earn (taxable) income for the parent.
Earning and profiting are two very different things.
Use LibreWolf then.
I came to say just this..
Why is the person downloading chrome in the first place. Firefox with ghostery and ublock origin is the way forward
Ghostery is redundant with total cookie protection
Is total cookie protection on Android? Is that the strict cookie setting?
As far as I'm aware it's available on Android. It's built into Enhanced Tracking Protection.
Awesome! That's what I love about Firefox
Just use Linux and Firefox. Skip all this bullshit.
Sadly Firefox on iPhone doesn’t translate [human languages]. I don’t want to use Chrome on iPhone and Firefox on PC because synchronising bookmarks and history is too important to give up.
This one isn't on Apple. There's nothing stopping Firefox from having translate on iPhone. It's on Chrome and Edge.
It's available as an add-on for Firefox on PC. Language translation is built into the application for Chrome and Edge on iPhone.
With all due respect, I don't think you understand. There is no restriction on language translation on iPhone. Firefox merely doesn't support built-in language translation. It might have been easier for them if Apple permitted add-ons on iPhone, but it definitely does not prevent language translation. Chrome and Edge have built language translation into their apps for iPhone to facilitate this. Firefox could do the same, but have chosen not to.
I don't own an iPhone, but this seems like a totally fair criticism and I don't see any replies refuting it, so what's with all the downvotes? I swear to god this place is ridiculous sometimes, these people won't be happy until you jump through every hoop imaginable to use the Lemmy approved software. Only positive feedback allowed!
because this is inherently Apple's fault and not Mozilla's.
Apple's the one forcing every browser on iOS to be a reskinned version of Safari. And it's perfectly understandable that Mozilla doesn't want to waste time and resources developing features for a Firefox-branded Safari when they could be working on their own browser.
What's your point? The dude gave a perfectly valid reason to not using Firefox, regardless of who's fault it is.
But also, how on earth would building a functional browser for a phone that owns 55% of the US market share be a waste of time and resources?
it's a perfectly valid reason for not using Firefox, my point is that they're on the wrong platform. It's the user's own fault, because they chose a closed platform like iOS. Developing free software for iOS is a waste of time, since everything is under Apple's tyrannical rule and they get to decide which web engine you use, they can disallow extensions and make it very hard (and against their ToS) to sideload apps.
I don't like Mozilla at all, and that's why I use Firefox derivatives and not Firefox itself, but I'm glad they don't waste time developing for a re-skinned Safari. Those resources are best used in their own web engine.
and hardware apparently lol
I am also confused. I didn't know phone browsers were a team sport, but here we are.
Firefox Sync doesn't work on iPhone?
No, Firefox on iPhone doesn’t translate [human languages]. I don’t want to use Chrome on iPhone and Firefox on PC because they don’t sync between each other.
Doesn't translate to what...
Human languages. French to English, German to Arabic, that kind of thing.
What are these non human languages that it translates?
I assume machine code and programming languages, but it's a weird way to say it regardless
Friendly reminder that winget comes preinstalled on Windows 11 now.
winget install Mozilla.FirefoxYou can install Firefox without even opening Edge!
Btw, MS stole it.
https://keivan.io/the-day-appget-died/
Not exactly "stole"; the author was fine about the code being used in this way. What they were upset about is the lack of attribution and communication.
Isn't this what licenses are for?
The license was Apache 2.0, and there was a tiny bit of attribution...just enough to cover the license requirements.
On Windows 10 too. I always just download from the website or store but I recently experienced the pretty fun of updating my apps over CLI for some reason
Do you need an MS account?
Which is something you will need to do to not accept their privacy invasive terms and conditions that you have to accept before using the bloated data harvesting browser.
winget install Vivaldi
great solution. instead of Chrome or MS-Chrome, you install V-Chrome. Such a big difference! It really is a completely new theme for Chrome, isn't it? Oh and they have a built-in adblocker which is far less capable than uBlock Origin but it is built-in! isn't that great?
It's not just skin. If it was just like any other Chromium based browser I wouldn't bother but there isn't any browser that has great features like Vivaldi which makes working with multiple tabs a breeze. And they don't collect any telemetry either. Not even crash logs.
Plus, you can say pretty much that every browser with built-in adblock is worse than uBlock Origin... That's not the point...
Functionally speaking, Vivaldi is more different than chrome than Firefox is.
Dude, nothing is more suspicious than when a developer of a supposedly free app nags you to use their app. Why do they even want you to use Edge so badly? You're never going to pay any money for it, this screams "give us your data, we want to sell it".
I can't instantly jump to nefarious purposes. I mean I'm sure there's nefarious purposes baked into it, but it's reasonable that a marketing group knows the common reasons people leave their product. I'm guessing these listed options will actually trigger a popup/page that explains how to correct these exact things, like a FAQ. I'm not trying to be apologetic for MS, it's just that the choice between edge and chrome is how you balance your data... Emissions? Both suck for that reason
It might be reasonable, but the question still stands: why does Microsoft put so much effort into trying to convince people to use Edge? The purpose of Edge is to have a preinstalled browser so that you can start working right away and don't need to rely on 3rd party software to do basic tasks. Great, I get that. Every OS has their own preinstalled browser. But what I don't get is, why do they actively try to stop you from using a different browser? Why do they put in so much effort to stop you from installing Chrome? Why do they not put in the same effort when you try to install Notepad++ or Paint.Net? What's so special about a browser, compared to other standard software? I can think of anti-consumer reasons, like harvesting and selling your data. And yes, Chrome isn't any better in that regard, but at least you make the choice yourself.
The answer is very simply advertising and affiliate revenue. If you use Chrome instead of Edge, Google gets the money from their ad engine, and Microsoft gets nothing unless you actively use Bing.
Microsoft Rewards gets you used to using Bing, which can then serve you ads on your searches instead of Google, earning money for Microsoft while giving you tiny fractions of a cent in points as a gamification strategy.
Edge has shopping features that work just like Rakuten or Capital One Shopping, where if you "earn" cash back, Microsoft gets a cut of the sale.
Honestly, it doesn't bother me much. Edge has some pretty great features added in and it actually actively saves me some money and cuts me in where Google wouldn't. Plus, it somehow is less of a memory hog and feels snappier than Chrome.
It's a great browser and is a huge upgrade from Chrome from a performance perspective if you don't value their extra features and just turn them off. Not sure how Google took Chromium and made it run like shit wit Chrome when I feel like there isn't much extra underneath the hood.
I know, I was thinking that about Lemmy too. An issue or not we don't yet know!
The neat part about the fediverse is that no matter how badly behaved a dev may be, there'll be enough people to fix their behaviour and work around it. Look at mastodon, gorgon made a few questionable choices but glitch and all the other forks work around it and enough community servers exist that you could block mastodon.social and never miss a thing.
Just like with Lemmy there's already kbin and countless other alternatives that all integrate with each other and enough community servers.
But with browsers that's stopped being a thing a long time ago as the modern web is far too complex for small groups of indie devs to make their own browsers.
Why downloading chrome when you are using edge? Download Firefox.
I need chrome to download firefox
And then use Firefox to download Lynx.
This is the way, or even better use LibreWolf
Nah. I'd rather download another browser (besides chrome of course)
Nearly all are chrome under the hood. What's your alternative?
Firefox?
Well yeah but the comment I was responding to said, Firefox? Nah. I'm wondering what alternative to Firefox they would choose that is not chromium based.
*chromium, not Google Chrome
Such as...
webkit based thing?
I don't use Edge BECAUSE they keep begging and throwing ads at me for it. It's off putting, desperate and exactly what I don't want.
I don't use it because the Edge splash screen is chokka ads and news stories I don't want.
I don't use Edge because I find Bing annoying, and prefer duck duck go and google in that order, and I'm sick of constantly being nagged to use shit I don't want.
Microsoft get it in your head, you are an operating system. Your job is to Operate MY system. Do that well. And by all means build more software, make it optional and installable by choice. If it's good and works for me and not for you I will use it.
I don't use Chrome either. It no longer works for me. It now works for Google first.
Ive recently downgraded Firefox from browser number 1 to number 2. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not the best.
Currently I'm enjoying Opera because it feels fresh and zippy and works for me , but I'm not loyal. Edge if you do good, maybe I will use you too. But stop your pathetic shit.
I used Edge since the beginning, until they decided to fill it with bloat. It's getting worse than Chrome. Now I'm using Firefox that is still a browser instead of an application trying to replace all applications.
Late reply, sorry just going though my messages here. But I get all the Linux love, however I assume you're a developer or a writer. Linux is incredibly niche and basically a non option for a vast load of industries.
Im a professional video editor and animator. Adobe is my bread and butter. I can't use another option realistically either as it mostly doesn't exist or I have to send out my projects to other creators and need to be able to talk to other PCs.
Linux doesn't support Adobe, it doesn't support about 80% of my other creative softwares, it won't play nice. Windows, for my use case runs like a dream.
Until Linux gets broader adoption of actual pro level applications for the film industry (and many others), it will always be a niche OS for coders and web devs sadly. I'd sooner roll back to windows XP than use Linux.
Microsoft is a cloud provider these days, Windows doesn't make enough money, that's why they are desperate to monetise already paying customers.
Azure/entra or whatever the fuck they call it this week is where the real money comes from
I share the same sentiment. The push of having Bing crap all over the place with the inability to make the browser more vanilla is just a turn off for me. As a former and technically current Chrome user, I have found the overall user interface to be pleasant and easy to use. At work, Chrome is the preferred browser so I continue to use it there but for personal use, I moved to Firefox. It’s definitely taken an adjustment to get used to a few small differences but I haven’t hit anything that breaks my experience to need to go back to Chrome yet after a few months on Firefox. The ability to customize Firefox to the level of detail that’s possible is pretty impressive. While I don’t go crazy with customizations because I feel it potentially adds to future tech debt I don’t want to deal with as things change in Firefox, I like having the option.
switching to Linux + Firefox was the best thing ive ever did
I wish I could but I couldn't get steam games to work on it.
Anything that's steam deck certified should run flawlessly on Linux
What was you doing?
Other than enabling proton for all games in the settings, you shouldn’t have to do anything else to get steam games working.
Well, unless the game itself uses anti-cheat and the developer hasn’t enabled support for Linux, anyway.
Been running only Linux for 3 years and the only time I couldn't get a game to work was trying to play some 15 year old RTS games cross platform with friends.
Based on the massive about of replys I feel like it was user error which would be highly likely. I will give it another try.
Which games, and how long ago did you try? Proton has come a long way in the last few years.
I tried for about 5 hrs on Pop OS. Should I be using something else?
havent touched windows in like 2 years and only once had a problem with games not running
I've just converted my last Windows PC, meaning my gaming desktop, to Linux, now I need to figure out how to run SOLIDWORKS on it .. thinking a VM with GPU passthrough, but I'm a bit scared of the endeavor, despite having been a regular Linux user for I guess almost two decades.
Wine?
Eh good luck with that. SOLIDWORKS sits firmly at the GARBAGE rating on the Wine AppDB
SOLIDWORKS sounds like it works perfectly, or it is not living up to its name and you should get a refund.
Use RDP apps to the cloud or something.
Have you tried Lutris?
No, I haven't. Would that make any difference? It's not a game
Perhaps I have misunderstood, but I thought there were some cases where you could use it for applications that aren't games.
But there's a good possibility that I'm wrong.
I am using a 20gbps ssd with windows to go on it for my windows install so that when I plug in the ssd I boot to windows and when I restart and unplug I boot to linux, might be a solution for you?
I have kept windows on a separate ssd, but I find dual booting very disruptive, I don't want to reboot to change between tasks, I've tried it already in the past and it sucks.
This is why I am unfortunately back on windows. I use a couple programs everyday, and unfortunately they do not run on Linux. And there is not a usable alternative either.
I was rebooting to windows, doing what I had to, and then rebooting again. But it is just so disruptive and not user friendly.
This ^
I’ve tried dual booting multiple times over the last few years, but always end up with windows as the primary because restarting my computer 6+ times a day got so disruptive. Until the windows only software moves I’m going to be on Windows.
Have you tried creating a windows VM inside of Linux?
I haven't tried side loading windows to be fair. I was trying to move away completely from the windows environment.
What does SOLIDWORKS do?
CAD/CAM, I design 3d parts with it
What was the problem?
Are the games that you play reported to work in Linux? Check out ProtonDB and search for some games you care about. It’s possible they don’t work but based off user reports, most likely they’ll work okay out of the box and work well with some tinkering.
Thanks for this info I will have to check.
Not seeing the option "Because fuck Microsoft"
In all seriousness tho, I use Firefox because it's not reskinned Chrome.
"I prefer giving my data to Google"
"Firefox"
That would be the Cancel button, because anything else would be giving Microsoft free data.
“My reason is not listed”
Wow. If there ever was a reason to run, this is it.
remind me again how this isn't anticompetitive?
This. Regulators are a joke
Edge can’t be anticompetitive if no one is using it
Imo asking why you leave is fine, many programs and extensions do it. The problem is that you never chose Edge but still have to use it to download another browser!
remember in the 90s or 00s when Microsoft had that antitrust case, and when you loaded up IE, it asked you what browser you wanted? We need that again, along with the antitrust case.
Why are you downloading chrome? You are supposed to download Firefox.
"Didn't you lose a lawsuit over this in the 90s?"
They are BASICALLY the same, only difference is whom they send your data to.
I'm not trying to defend Google here, but I use Edge every day for work, and it's definitely not as good as Chrome or Firefox. Both Chrome and Edge are based on Chromium, so core functionality is the same, but Edge has no shortage of crappy annoying changes that make it frustrating to use.
preach brother, firefox always looking for ways to improve and offer you a chance to take control to do it your way.
The tragedy of edge is that it is technically a fantastic browser for windows but made by Microsoft.
Just thinking about the engineers that built such great memory management and security features that no other browser has just to have the marketing guy come in and say 'yeah put these three layers of bloat on top oh and don't forget to add the new backdoor we need...' only to see that all their work is basically a tech meme...
I guess they must get home and cry while hugging their stock options and 300k/y contract the poor guys...
Those guys all got Balmered or something because Edge is now Chromium based.
The first sentence is the most fantastical example of circular reasoning I’ve ever seen!
Windows users really do all live in denial.
Windows is just one big advertisement jfc and M$FT the audacity to charge $200 for it?! 🏴☠️
It is a marketing OS for sure.
15 years ago I used to set up Linux HPC systems and we did a windows one for a testing project. Back then it was sort of a head scratcher, but I could see some use in it. Now? I don’t know about that.
Started daily driving Linux on a laptop 20 years ago. Moved my desktop to it by 2007. I haven't ran Windows at home except in a VM (5+years ago) since around 2009. I'm much happier with the quirks of Linux than I am using Microsoft products.
At this point Linux desktops have maintained a more stable UI, quirks and all. The main thing is the freedom of choice. If I want a standard start menu/toolbar interface that just works, KDE. Classic lightweight look and feel? XFCE. Stripped down tiling WM? i3. Then there is also Gnome Shell if you're into that sort of thing ;)
However I know for certain that next year I won't be forced to use a UI that totally scraps functionality I've been used to for 20 years and changes everything for the sake of change.
MS changes things without giving the customer a choice, from the Ribbon interface that started in Office, to the tile based launcher of Windows 8 and now the awful start menu of 11.
I have a windows partition for my tax software and last year I managed to run it under Wine, so haven't booted it in a year. Gaming under Linux is great now thanks to Steam/Proton!
I prefer to leave edge never clicked by using winget. It comes default on Win 11 (Most likely new install, not an advertisement for that dumpster fire). For windows 10 you can use the Microsoft Store to install AppInstaller which will get you winget. Winget is a MS product.
I mainly like doing this because Edge does a bunch of setup when clicked for the first time. This avoids all that.
winget install --id=Google.Chrome -eOr you can ever do slightly prevent the backslide in marketshare for Firefox.
winget install --id=Mozilla.Firefox -eJust run powershell or windows terminal and use those commands and you can leave edge where it belongs.
More info here. https://winstall.app/apps/Mozilla.Firefox https://phoenixnap.com/kb/install-winget
Since I hardly use the ms store, you can get rid of it:
winget source delete msstoreand then just runwinget install chromeorwinget install firefoxWinget is pretty cool, but I'm not sure how it works exactly. The package sourcing, like anything Microsoft does is a bit sus and I'm worried it's crowdsourced.
It's great for passively checking for new versions of most software you got installed, won't argue with that.
It's like a more curated AUR. Winget looks up the manifest (
PKGBUILDequivalent) from its repo and executes its instructions. It usually downloads an installer, then executes it silently. The binaries may or may not be validated by Winget, and are mostly blobs, so exercise as much caution as with the AUR.Could also use scoop, but people get a little nervous running random powershell scripts off the internet. I have no fear of it. Scoop is also excellent for people with a little more tech savvy.
Install. Linux.
Switch to Linux, runaway from the windows shit and depravity.
I was playing Baldur's Gate 3 shortly after release and got a popup from Bing over the game asking if I wanted to enable Bing in Chrome. I immediately blocked bing.com on my network. Never looked back.
What the fuck
Because Microsoft is so damn pushy. Literally anytime they ask my feedback is that they need to just fuck off from my PC and do the bare minimum that I require them to do. I don't need all the bullshit they throw on there to try and get more and more of my data.
I'm actually alright with this, which seems to be an unpopular opinion. It seems totally sensible for them to ask why you don't want to use Edge and would rather use Chrome.
If we want to prevent monopolies, we need healthy competition. If Microsoft improves Edge based on this user feedback to create an actually good product, then we all win. It means that if Firefox starts to pull the shit that Google is doing, we have a solid alternative.
Of course the manner in which Microsoft does this matters a lot, but the actual concept itself is a good one.
I wish for Microsoft to mind their business when I download another browser. A web developer or someone excersizing their freedom of choice should not need to deal with petty and sorry looking surveys.
On the other hand, it is fine to ask how the browser experience is like but not this.
Unfortunately, this privacy invasive feature goes against this concept because it already made the browser worse. Also, Edge is chromium based. Mozilla, Apple's Safari, and Chromium are the only true browser choices. Edge may bring some UX features, but they are data harvesting focused and not the core browser mechanisms. Microsoft is taking the work Google, and the chromium community puts into the code base and then running their own data harvesting UX on top. It is not a "alternative" browser choice, ever.
With Microsoft's track record, this survey is not to improve the browser but to harvest more data to pinpoint your identity and behavior to sell to advertisers and data analysts. So the "manner" Microsoft does this is more of a reason for not wanting to have this.
Yeah that's fair. If they just open a tab that says they're sorry to see you go but would appreciate feedback, that'd be fine. Trying to block the download to say that, not cool at all
I think it's a conflict of interest to leverage their position as an OS provider to do this. If they want feedback they can pay a market research firm like a normal company. God knows they have the money.
Its the browser that pops it up. Go download Firefox on Chrome and the same thing happens.
My problem with all of it is, they've built that shit into the browser. That means baked into the browser, it is watching what I'm doing and doing things on its own based on what I do.
It leaves the door open for them to bother me/phone home anytime I do something that isn't in their interests. Are they going to add in similar things for me looking for windows, office, GitHub, or Xbox alternatives?
I feel like a lot of users won't use edge because of spite. It's intrusive and manipulative stuff like this which has angered a lot of people. Admittedly, this is one of the more harmless reactions.
Edge: "Nobody likes me. :( "
Microsoft: "Don't worry. We will make them like you. >:] "
It’s none of Microsoft’s business if I’m using their web browser or not. They shouldn’t be blocking my use of another product just because I don’t like theirs.
If they're that crazy over their browser, how much other shit are you sending them you don't know about?
But they're not, you can still download and use any browser you like.
They are throwing unnecessary blockades (the article mentions 4 popups/warnings that Edge is just as good as Chrome).
I just went and downloaded chrome from Edge. Nothing got in my way. There was a notification in the corner suggesting I use edge, and then a banner at the top of the page after I downloaded it, but literally nothing got in my way.
Sure, it's mildly annoying, but nothing got in my way or prevented me from getting Chrome.
And downloading firefox gave zero notifications or banners, it was just normal. Same with Safari.
I really don't see what is preventing me from using other browsers here.
The competition between Chrome and Edge is very shallow, they're two slightly altered and heavily branded reskins of chromium, the real competition would be Firefox and it's forks (mullvad, waterfox, librewolf) (and maybe webkit aka safari) Vs chromium but there's no big corporation behind those (except safari, but it has many of the problems that big corpo chromium browsers have) , so they're struggling a lot.
Microsoft is synonymous with "healthy competition!" /s
Edge collects your "ctrl-f" in-page searches. Fuck that with a cactus.
I assure you that no percent of the people this poll is aimed at make decisions because of that. They don't even know about it.
Microsoft: Possibly the biggest motivator in people switching to Linux or MacOS.
I'm about to jump ship to Linux. I have been a Windows user since it first came out. I was DOS savvy before that, but Microsoft has just been getting worse and worse. They have never made a web browser that is worth a teaspoon of salt being high on the list of reasons they suck. Buuuuut, it's what all the software runs on. Now, though, they have gotten to be such bullies about forced updates and more that I am done. I'm not gonna lie, it's a little intimidating to have to start all over again, especially since Linux expects you to be very hands on with everything and I have let a looooot of my savvy slip by the wayside, but I feel like I've been forced at this point.
Something about boiling a frog
Unless you heavily depend on Adobe or a very niche proprietary software you'll be fine. Install something user friendly like Linux Mint or Ubuntu and you'll be fine. If you stick to these distros, Linux is going to be really really easy.
Well, in the case of Linux, also free. Many years ago I built an HTPC to run a media center at home and I got it all done and I realized that I didn't actually HAVE install media (or a spare license) for windows and it kinda irritated me that a legitimate license was going to cost me like $100 for a computer that wouldn't ever do anything but stream media from my own server. I had heard of linux before and I really wanted to make sure that my hardware worked without having to figure out how to actually buy windows and wound up installing ubuntu to test it out. I was surprised to discover that once installed it wasn't really all that different from Windows and decided then and there that this would be perfectly adequate for my HTPC and wound up using linux on various machines ever since. (I always have an old thinkpad running some flavor of linux for most of my general computing).
Like a lot of folks, I think the only thing I use windows for is working remotely and gaming (although, that is less and less the case since I got a steam deck and linux support for gaming has gotten SO much better over the last ten years).
I was surprised to find that gaming on linux just works. Valve has done a wonderful job in improving proton.
Proton is so good now that there are games that have native Linux versions that run better if you play the Windows version with proton.
Been Linux full time since February. 100% because of the bullshit MS is pulling. Hard pass.
On a side note, Linux is fantastic now, all my games work, it doesn't everything I need/want it to do with ease.
I virtual machine Linux these days. There is just too much effort in getting everything moved over from streaming video to games. No I don't want to see a tutorial.
Linux for regular stuff, Microsoft for entertainment. Except porn. I still need Linux for porn because I am not insane
both of them are fighting over the exclusive rights to your browsing data and ad-impressions.
They can both suck an egg.
Self-censorship is the best censorship
advice you should have taken
As someone once said to me. Microsoft is not something you like, but is something you have to withstand due to Enterprise use it so much, and have so many users.
But when it comes to the browser, then you have to follow the standard for HTML, and suddenly you can choose something else.
Websites have historically been so godawful about complying with web standards that browsers had no choice but to support grossly non-standard code. Which then became standard. Now the vast majority of the web only works because of browser implementation details. So it's Chromium and Gecko and nothing else ever again.
Microsoft is actually to blame for that. IE6 was bundled with XP and was so popular that others have been in single digit percentages. MS used this to start modifying standards and developers followed most popular browser. The ever so famous embrace, extend, extinguish tactics MS is so fond of. So JS and CSS being broken for the longest time was thanks to MS and their attempt to secure monopoly, which they succeeded for the better part of the decade.
And now that Microsoft has been driven back on that front, Google has started to use Chrome in the same way.
Indeed. Although Google has less power than what Microsoft did. Chrome's engine is after all open source and everyone can just diverge. However there are more things than just engine. All Google needs to do is require Chrome to be able to sync bookmarks or something similar and people will ditch others.
So download firefox! Anyway, edge is a reskinned chrome, like nearly all chrome based browsers...
Microsoft, if they weren't run by morons could capitalize HARD on Google's fuckery.
Hey, we've got the chromium browser but we won't be following suit with googles anti ad blocking bullshit!
This would convert a bunch of people, including me. And with me goes pretty much 30 people in my range (family / friends) since I setup their shit anyway.
But, no Microsoft is just licking Google's asshole and applying lipstick on the chrome turd and wondering why no-one wants it.
If I can't use FF or one of its derivatives I will literally use edge just in spite of chrome, and do everything possible to not use chrome
You can't blame them for wanting to know. It's a major market, and they're getting their asses kicked. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Edge over Chrome, so it's actually an interesting question anyway.
winget install -i Mozilla.Firefox -eDo they really think it being a Microsoft product means people trust it more?
The entire world runs on Microsoft products. They're a very highly trusted company.
In this instance, Microsoft has tried everything but pay people to use Edge, but IE burned enough bridges that they're struggling to regain market share. This flies in the face of how much trust consumers generally put in Microsoft products, and thus makes sense to ask.
Yeah, they're really struggling to get their reputation back after letting IE drag it down. I honestly never really used Edge until I started my new job last month. The system is locked to Chrome or Edge and I decided to give Edge a try since it would actually let me enable dark mode where Chrome is locked by system administrators for themes. It's actually a good browser. I just never trusted it because it was a MS browser. But I prefer Firefox to all of them but that's just a personal preference.
Plus Edge has support for vertical tabs built in natively. It's wild to me that horizontal tabs are still the default, using up valuable vertical screen space and having illegible names when you've got a certain number of tabs open, when vertical tabs are an option. So props to Edge for offering that.
I never really got into vertical tabs at all. Although I never have that many tabs open that I really need that space efficiency. I can never understand how people have more than like 8 tabs open.
I have to use edge at work and the vertixle tabs is my favourite thing about it.
I often need lots of tabs open and finding rhem is difficult ao i have an autohiding verticle tab bar and i put my tabs into groups which i name and collapse so i can see what each tab is as alot of tabs have the same title as part of my job involves the use of a service desk.
I wish other browsers had it.
I've never really needed to have many tabs open so I don't really understand that struggle. I might have it more with my new job in commercial lending where our loan origination system is a web based app so maybe I'll need to have a lot more tabs open for that. If so, I could see myself switching to vertical tabs but I've just never had a need to have more than like 10 open at a time and that's usually only when I'm shopping around and comparing products/reviews.
Except for all the Mac/iOS Android/Chrome stuff. Or NASA, the NY stock exchange, 50% of servers, Federal Aviation Administration, U.S. Department of Defense, Nuclear submarines etc. those run on Linux. But other than those yes, the entire world lol
Yes. Aside from them, about 5 billion other people use Microsoft products.
This isn't fanboy shit dude this is just reality.
The latest estimate of how many people that use the internet at all is around 5 billion. Where did you get that number?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Internet_usage
Android is by far the most used operating system for web use and for servers it's estimated at 77 % linux, not 50 % as stated above.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
Windows dominated the desktop segment, you should realize that desktop use is in decline in favor of mobile usage.
I got that number by picking a random large number.
The point is it's silly to suggest that Microsoft is not the global industry standard for most businesses.
I work in international business. Windows with Outlook is the standard
I get that lots of people here have a wide array of personal problems with Microsoft, the way they do business, their software etc. Most people on the planet, however, do not share these opinions, can barely operate Microsoft Word, and just want plug n play software, which is why Microsoft is indeed a highly trusted, industry-standard, company.
No fanboying, just pointing out an inaccuratacy. And watch your language, my grandma uses the Internet smh.
I think many people don't feel they have an alternative. That's not the same as trust.
With browsers, they have a choice, despite MS's best efforts.
People don't have an alternative. Microsoft will choose for them at the next Windows update and pick auto MS Edge as the default browser again. They are solving problems...
Yer, they need more anti monopoly stuff against them. As do Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc. They are have their own thiefdoms.
Cory Doctorow's latest podcast talked about this mess : https://craphound.com/news/2023/10/23/microincentives-and-enshittification/
It's worth noting that this is mainly an issue on the cheapest Windows licenses. On Pro editions and Enterprise editions you can prevent the hijacking via Group Policy, which is not available to Home licenses.
Please note that I'm not saying I'm okay with this. I'm just trying to explain why there's a bunch of people out there who don't have to deal with that mess (like myself).
Everything but make Edge a good browser, you mean.
Edge is a perfectly cromulent browser that fills the average user's needs just fine and has some great additional cruft such as their vertical tabs and Collections implementation. It's not 2013 anymore. Why people still go out of their way to get Chrome of all things is an important question for Microsoft to ask. Just living off of Chrome's literal crumbs is worthwhile to Microsoft, imagine if they actually had a marketshare that reflected the two products capabilities. People obviously don't do it for safety or privacy or functionality reasons, and Microsoft will literally pay you to use Bing. They probably wonder what the fucking issue is at this point.
I mean…Microsoft is paying people to use Edge with Microsoft Rewards. It’s not a lot, but you can net a few cents each day with their Edge exclusive tasks.
I don't think the entire world. Only about 5% of the people at the last three companies I've worked at had Windows machines, and most of them in accounting. And the only part of the software stack that was Windows were QA machines. Until recently I hadn't used a Windows machine for anything other than gaming since 2009.
And while they're still a surprising 48% of the server market, that's not "the entire world." Maybe it's because I'm a Mac fanboy from back in the day, but I never trusted Microsoft. And used to spell their name with a dollar sign.
Idk man I’ve worked with hundreds of companies of all shapes and sizes as a consultant and I’ve never once seen one that used non-windows workstations with the only exception being Macs used in software development. And I’m also fairly certain that the Microsoft server market share would be much, MUCH higher if you didn’t count web servers. Web servers are the only type of server I’ve seen be Linux in the majority. Most web service companies I’ve worked with even had Windows servers working behind their Linux web servers and load balancers. Like a ratio of 10-20:1
I say this as somebody who hates Microsoft with a passion and would rather work in an all-Linux shop but a non-Microsoft enterprise just sounds like a unicorn.
Then, not counting when I was freelancing, I've found three unicorns. There were so few Windows machines around it frequently became a problem where devs or support had to have someone in accounting test something.
Yeah I could see it if they were an all-Mac environment in a small office that was tiny enough to not need Active Directory. Even then Mac desktops have like 20% desktop market share so that’d still be impressive that you got a Mac environment 3 times in a row.
Linux has like 3% of the desktop market, that would be pretty close to unbelievable.
Yes, why not? For the layman Microsoft is the name of a company that has existed for a long time and has made reliable, functional products.
Even for the non-layman, Microsoft isn't a perfect company, but it's not as if Google is any better.
From what I've read, Edge sends way more data back to Microsoft than Chrome sends to Google which is already too much.
They're just doing 1984 speak.
Do they do the same if you download Firefox? I remember using IE exclusively to download FF immediately after installing XP, Win 7, 10 or whatever it was.
Overly controlling bf
You'd rather leave your bf without telling him why?
As web browsers are now free in price, if they are not privacy and freedom oriented the only way to promote them is by nagging and force.
Linux equivalent: Imagine if AppImageD pops up asking for your opinion and feedback on AppImages whenever you visit Flathub or Snapcraft.
If I was Microsoft, I'd wanna know too. After all, it's a race for every single one of our data points, and then some.
Either way, you gotta admit it's ironically funny that Microsoft wants to keep/poach Chrome users into their own... wait for it... Chromium-based browser.
If I was Microsoft I would be investing in a some market that no one has clear dominance in. Right now they are trying to manage inconvenience. Making it harder and harder to not use their product. This strategy never works unless the government backs you up. They are trying to be like Comcast. You want to be like Apple. You want people to pay a premium for what they consider the best.
It's why their approach is failing too. They aren't offering any technical benefits, they are just trying to get more of your data for themselves.
It is fine to want to know... it is just a question of how do you ask
What happens when you try to download Firefox?
Angels sing.
I just tested and none of the pop-ups appear when searching "download Firefox"
They know most people who don't know one way or the other are downloading chrome just because that's what they heard to do. They also know anyone downloading firefox is doing so for a reason and won't be dissuaded by pop-ups.
I.e. Microsoft is looking to build an antitrust suit against Google.
It Microsoft were forced to decouple internet exploder from Windows then Google should be forced to decouple chrome from android.
A fresh android ( and iOS ) install should present a dialogue asking the user which browser they want. The companies should not be allowed to integrate browser specific features into the OS.
You, and nobody can stop them from doing so. It turns out that web UI technologies are very easily and conveniently usable for OS GUI features as well. Browsing a file system? Web UI. Navigating settings and configurations pages? Web UI.
And these browsers are open-source. Chromium. Edge is a derivative of Chromium, so is Chrome. The fact that Google controls the Chromium upstream matters not at all, because anyone is free to fork it and modify to their needs.
Freedom is a double-edged sword, but this is many folds better than locked-in proprietary.
I wouldn't turn this into a Firefox vs chrome(ium) fight,but why would anyone use a reskinned chrome(edge) over the original one? Not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.
Edge's vertical tabs and splitscreen are killer features that I cannot replicate without issues on firefox or chrome.
I've been using tree style tab on firefox for maybe almost 10 years and rarely have any issue unless the firefox update broke it which also rarely happens
I'm using different vertical tabs (forget the name), have the top hidden, except if I hover over specific region, have various identities (containers?) Implementwd within the vertical sidebar and two profiles that show as a separate app on the toolbar.
Firefox is great.
Tried and just not as seamless and edge. The groupings and simplicity is killer. Currently running a variant of tst on Firefox and it is just ok.
I've not used the in browser splitscreen, but can't you just use the window snapping feature built into the Windows OS itself for that?
Winkey+any arrow key Minimize, Maximize, snap to left or right half of screen.
The issue with that is then the vertical tab bar is in the center wasting space.
what i’ve gathered from people i talk to about it is that a lot of it comes down to convenience. edge comes pre installed and microsoft makes it not super straightforward to switch. i’m sure most people could figure it out if they wanted to, but lots of people don’t want to “futz around” with their computer. it also doesn’t help that edge is pretty much the only thing that works with windows search along with certain outlook and teams features.
i like to spend time messing around and customizing my computer to be better (i still use vim as my main editor), but for many people its annoying and they don’t want to “fix it if it isn’t broken”. this is all just a very long winded way of saying they don’t really care it’s not the optimal solution, as long as it works.
My dad used IE till the day it died, despite knowing that Chrome/Firefox was a better option. Some people just don’t want to change if they don’t have to.
Sometimes I wish I could give as few fucks about it all as they do.
i think we all have areas of life that we treat like your dad treats his web browsers. for example, im like that when it comes to cooking. i could probably cook meals that tasted much better if i put in a bit more effort into learning different techniques and some new recipes. but i just don’t like cooking that much and the stuff i make is good enough for me. my dad is much like yours when it comes to web browsers, but he knows a lot more about cooking than i do, and he enjoys it a lot more too.
You do know that Chrome is not "the original one" and that Edge is not a reskinned Chrome, right?
Edit: I don't know why I tipped off all rude like that over something so inconsequential. My apologies.
Edge is based on chromium, so yes you can say it's just a reskinned chrome, the only other rendering engine now is gecko, which is what is used by Firefox and it's forks.
No need to apologize, we all have our opinions,but I was expecting you to elaborate on that a bit.
Anyways,no harm no foul.
If they're equally bad, who cares?
I think one huge issue is that edge is fine, it is a browser that works. There is nothing competitively interesting about it to make people consider switching, plus there is the infamy of IE and Micro$oft's reputation to contend with.
They should just develop a lightweight browser installer and bow out of the browser wars.
That will never happen, a browser is probably the best telemetry source you can possibly have. Microsoft wouldn't dream to give that up.
Oh I know, I was just living in a better world for a second.
They run the operating system, they collect all that data without the browser
I don't get why everyone is appalled by this. They're just quantifying user feedback. Long as they don't stop you from downloading chrome, and the feedback is optional, I don't see the harm
Appalled? No.
Annoyed? Yeah.
its hard to stay appalled when its been something your feeling since its inception
I'm not really appalled. Just find it notable that Microsoft has four click throughs to try to nudge people towards Edge. Seems almost like desperation
Because it has vibes of the person screaming at you demanding to know why you won't go out with them.
Internet Explorer is older than my kids. I know what it is about. I choose to go elsewhere. I shouldn't have to fucking explain why I am not giving them a chance when they had like twenty plus years to not suck.
In context, Microsoft has made it quite annoying over the years for users to keep using the browser they like. This is yet another nag in a long series.
If they are actually interested in the results, I think this is way better than the straight up nag screen they used to have.
Overly attached hegemon.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Google Chrome download in Microsoft’s Edge web browser?
How many times will the company try to steer me away?
The pop-ups are nearly two years old, and the injected ads are from earlier this year.
I cannot believe how many stories we’ve written about the shit Microsoft has pulled to steer you away from Chrome.
Even today, the company still won’t always respect your choice of default browser, though that may finally be changing in the EU.
Sadly the poll doesn’t include an “I’m boycotting Edge because you don’t respect me as a user” option.
The original article contains 133 words, the summary contains 108 words. Saved 19%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
That kid with abandonment issues that tries to bribe classmates to stay a little while longer by promising them candy, but instead of that kid it's Microsoft, and instead of candy it's gravel.
That's similar to what I thought their Xbox strategy was. The rich kid buys an entire store because he has no idea how to prepare things for a party(i.e., make games). Now he owns the store (which is profitable tbf) but he still has no idea how to throw a party (i.e., Xbox games like Halo are still dead and they still don't have a good play test strategy the way Sony or Valve does so they keep releasing broken games). Xbox over the years slowly lost the formula to making great games to poor corporate management.
You're making a mistake in your line of thought there- the intention was never to throw a great party, the intention was ever only to make money. And that party is bouncing hard since the 90's...
Yeah MS, compel use of your software by forcing it on people, cajoling and misleading them. Instead of, ya know, adding killer features that make it popular and recommended by all, the way so many of your competitors did as they ate your lunch.
How are they going to know what features to prioritize unless they ask people why they're leaving for a competitor?
I love Edge so I never get this pop up.
Cursed
You have to really love it, you can't just pretend
🤢
you forgot the "/s".
who would love giving all their data to a chrome re-skinned by Microsoft.
I do, I love it that Microsoft have all my data. It makes my life easier.
Am I victim of the Mandela effect or did this happen some years ago too? I remember setting up chrome on win10 in my tech-normie days and getting a similar thing, maybe my memory is failing me.
They've been doing it for years, but in slightly different ways. Chances are you remember one of their numerous pathetic attempts to prevent switching from their spyware.
I think I am okay with this popup, I mean they are asking whats wrong with their product. They arent trying to break something in Chrome or like that.
If Edge stops forcing everyone with their "new and improved AI powered..." stuff, it is better than Chrome.
The answer, as the saying goes, is in the body of the question.
Completely legal and definitely not abusing one monopoly to push for another
I use Opera because it uses less memory on my tiny $175 laptop.
Honestly Edge might be better at this point but it really doesn't matter. Google won the browser war years ago and people have too much inertia to care
Edge was good at launch, it's still okay but it's kind of a bloated mess now
Firefox was great at launch (seems like 100 years ago now), got a little bloaty there in the middle, and is great again now. And it's not dependent on Chromium.
In case anyone's curious.
That's Chrome and all its varieties, to be fair
They think Chrome as everybody have a Gmail account but not Microsoft account. I dont think you can login to Edge with a Google account and get all your stuff there. At minimum you first must install Chrome, then start Edge and trigger the import process - but why do that when you now already have Chrome installed?
This is true for all other browsers.
Reminds me a bit of that scene in "2001 - A Space Odyssey" where Bowman unplugs HALs memory modules, and HAL begs him not to do that.
The stupid sidebar on the right is reason enough for me, but I also want an adblocker that's not crippled.
Yeah it’s fair; trying to download Chrome when Edge is already there doesn’t make sense to me
What does make sense is using Edge to download Firefox ;)
Do you also question why Burger Kings exist when McDonalds is already there too?
I would question the person with McDonalds going and getting Burger King on top of what they already have
I think I just figured out my weekend plans
Edge is just chromium, so what's the big deal.
Firefox or Brave for the win. Edge and Chrome are equally bloat/spyware.
https://youtu.be/DEzC-3mi3y0?t=19
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/DEzC-3mi3y0?t=19
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
But edge is much better than chrome, was the only browser I could keep open while emulating switch games. If you are going to use a chromium fork instead of Firefox, at least use edge.
Why does anyone care? Just ignore the poll and download whichever browser you want to use. If it was actually stopping me from downloading the other browser, then that's a problem.
This is the same as an advert popping up. Just bat it away and carry on as normal.
Of course I find this attempt from Microsoft to make you stick on Edge (together with all the other ones) pretty ridicolous, But after having to use Win11 + Edge for a bunch of days instead of my usual OS and Browser I really don't understand why people who doesn't give a shit about their privacy and the welfare of the internet (because if you use Google Chrome this must be your case) just don't use Edge. It's basically chrome but with more cool features and a much better integration with the OS!
So I guess in this case maybe it was not an attempt to make user stick with Edge, but just the Edge developers being annoyed by the fact that all what they do is not apreciated 😂
This comment has turned into a massive downvote farm simply because I'm saying that I use Edge... but it's probably not for long.
Just hit that button already.
Edge > Chrome. I use it at work. Much better.
This feels like arguing whether mcdonalds or burger king is better when I'd really just prefer food.
I think of it as picking up two pieces of dog shit and trying to decide which smells better.
To be fair, that's true to me too but MS's way of marketing it is just annoying and predatory. With that said, Firefox is my jam and only use Edge for things related to my Microsoft school account.
I care about anticompetitive behavior from tech companies
I miss when MS used to be punished for these kinds of blatantly monopolistic practices.
I miss when antitrust actually existed
But Google is the market leader and has the same practices, why are you only asking for MS to be punished? Google is just as shady.
Huh? Where did I say anything like that?
"Two wrongs don't make a right."
I think it's a bit more invasive of a browser to inject shit depending on the sites I visit.