What will you do once windows 10 is deprecated and you have to update to windows 11 or 12?
Windows 11 keeps trying to install different stuff, notifying you about how great edge is, requires new hardware, and more. Windows 12 is rumored to be cloud only with a subscription?
What will do you?
As 12 comes out I think we will see a lot of gamers moving to Linux thanks to the much anticipated SteamOS release. Windows 12 will still be "successful" among the general public but Linux usage will skyrocket as Microsoft break that straw on the camels back for the more experienced users.
Personally I will move to Linux, likely start with dual boot in the transitional phase and as SteamOS improves and game publishers realise they need to support Linux and take it more seriously.
Not a Linux fan at all but with my steamdeck usage and setting up Mint on a NUC for a server I've been very impressed with Linux progression. It's still not perfect, needs to be more user friendly but it is getting there.
They said that with Windows 8 and Steam OS
Every year is the year of Linux
If they had dropped support for win7 and earlier to force users to win 8, it might have happened more. Though at that time, Linux gaming wasn't in the state it is today, too.
It's interesting that you find the taskbar to be better in Mint, that's the thing I've had by far the most trouble with. Specifically the fact there doesn't seem to be any way to mirror the taskbar to all screens. You can't copy it from one screen to another either, you have to meticulously recreate the taskbar on each screen. Even then some elements can only appear on one panel so if you need to adjust sound level but you happen to have something full screen over it you're shit out of luck, either close the full screen application or go into the full sound manager instead. Then the taskbar only shows windows that are open on that screen too, which I suppose some users would like but is absolutely not what I want. I believe there was a "show all workspaces" checkbox but that either didn't work or doesn't include second screens. The best part is if you open a window on one screen then move it with keyboard controls in some cases it doesn't update the taskbar, so now your window doesn't appear in the taskbar on the correct screen at all but might show up on another.
Overall, not impressed. I need one taskbar that appears identically on all screens.
Needing to remount my Steam library from other drives every time I reboot is a tad inconvenient too.
Are you really trying to dismiss criticism that the taskbar's Grouped Window List doesn't always display windows visible on that screen is just an issue of the user expecting Windows? Dismissing every user issue as "just stop expecting Windows" is exactly toxic fanboy the attitude that drives people away from Linux. You might notice that I didn't even mention Windows once, I was talking exclusively about taskbar issues affecting my workflow in Mint.
I'm still using Mint+Cinnamon but I'm not going to pretend it's perfect.
Where? Please point to the part where me responding to you commenting on Mint+Cinnamon's taskbar is criticising all of Linux.
Really help things out if all the anti cheat software would be Linux compatible. I'm stuck using windows (and not getting to use my steamdeck) on some of those damned games because of it.
After seeing how incredible the Steam Deck is, I've completely have no reason to stay with Microsoft and Windows.
I am running Win11(pro) because the new Intel CPUs require it.
It's completely fine. I use Firefox without edge annoying me. There are no apps that just pop up out of nowhere (that I know of). It's fine. I locked down all the temeletry shit like I did on Win10.
The only thing annoying me is the change in the preview in folder icons. I wanna see the pictures that are in the folder not the. xmp files Darktable creates.
This. If you're used to working with windows, 11 is the usual song and dance of disabling a bunch of telemetry shit and making sure windows update only runs when prompted.
I don't even bother to do the latter on my windows machine since it's my gaming rig and that doesn't stay on unless I game (my server runs Debian), so there's plenty of chances for it to install updates when rebooting.
Sure, sometimes it adds some half baked garbage "feature" like the weather widget and you gotta kill it, but that's hardly an issue.
Thank you. I think it's silly the amount of work it takes to initially learn how to properly debloat, install, and configure Windows nicely but once you've learned it it's not tough to do. It's only time consuming at worst, even with changes to an entirely new version. Even with Linux Distros there's a certain amount of time you need to set aside to set up stuff how you want.
Say what? Why does it require it?
Yeah, Win10 can't properly handle the efficency cores. So it's either upgrade to Win11 or disable the cores. (Or play with terrible random stutters)
W11 works fine for me. I'll update to 12 if there are no major issues with it. Same thing I've done with every Windows update. Like it or not, Windows still wins in software compatibility, and that saves me the most amount of time.
I bet you'd be surprised at what saves you the most time. Sure, short term sticking with what you know may be faster, but I switched to KDE Neon the other day and it's great.
One thing I didn't consider that's an amazing QoL feature is updates to software, including the OS, are all handled mostly in one place. I can view all updates and install them all with one button press. With Windows you need to launch the application (assuming it's set up to check for updates, if not you have to check manually), wait for it to check online for updates, go to the web page to download the installer, run installer, relaunch the application. It sucks. Theres many other features Linux just handles more elegantly than Window's pile of shit software. Windows functions but it isn't good or fast.
That would be a big problem. I would not pay a subscription. But I'm also not buying into the hype saying that it's going to have a sub. That was based on a "leaked" email that wasn't even clear about what they were talking about.
Even apple hasn't gone to a subscription based model yet. I highly doubt Microsoft is gonna be like "yeah that'd be a great idea."
The last time I heard about something going subscription based was with Bungie and Destiny 2 from a "leak," which was just bollocks.
I'm sure they'd know that going that route would result in a lot more problems.
First off, I highly doubt the 'cloud only' rumors are true. By definition, an operating system must help the machine itself operate. The only way I see something like that being feasable is if the extra app bloatware is web based, which I certainly wouldn't complain about.
I currently use Linux quite heavily and have a Windows 11 VM on my desktop for all my unsupported software. I am using the Ghost Spectre version and I'm enjoying it quite a lot, it actually makes Windows a good experience. As for 12, I'll wait and see what it's like and decide then (for my VM, not bare metal).
I'm just afraid Windows 12 will be something like ChromeOS that just starts Microsoft Edge fullscreen and opens a login screen to some computer in the cloud that I have to pay for.
Rest assured, I'm pretty confident that won't be the case. While web apps certainly have gained their fair share of popularity, some things still need to be localized on your machine. Chrome OS is just proof of that since it has really taken off after it had forgone its original goal of being fully web based. Last I checked, it even had Steam working allowing you to play games on YOUR computer. Also, keep in mind if your fears did come true, Microsoft would have to run a cloud instance for every single computer running windows on the planet at the same time. This might just be my optimism and faulty assertion, but I don't think that's something they would want to do. A subscription based OS is likely, though.
Maybe long term, but plenty of businesses rely on apps that can't or don't run on the cloud. I can see them pushing low end devices to this. They have tried several times.
Wow, I'm not alone. Been trialing linux in preparation of what's to come and it's actually quite OK. Went with Kubuntu because Ubuntu doesn't feel like Windows and Steam has official support for it or something? It was easy as pie to install.
Once Windows 10 doesn't work, it's probably curtains for windows on my PC.
Honestly, ubuntu has been rough a couple times and had I not tried it on a server for a long time before, I‘d probably given up. Most people strongly recommend mint these days. I should check it some day.
But steam is insanely good. Running most games and a lot of them faster than on windows these days. Most normal software has an open source equivalent and if you know scripting, you basically have a spaceship. Linux can do a lot of cool stuff.
I‘ll not go back, pretty sure.
Personally I'm switching to Pop!_OS and installing KDA Plasma on top of it. I've already tested it out on my old laptop
Steam has official Linux support, distro doesn't really matter
Linux is so approachable now, I don't see a reason not to make a full dive.
How well does Linux handle HDR? For me it's now a requirement and I don't see myself switching until it's fully supported.
It's theoretically possible right now if you use specific drivers with an AMD GPU and use Gamescope, but that's not very easy or usable. KDE Plasma 6 is going to release in February with HDR support so that should be nice, and Cosmic is being worked on and should support HDR as well when it comes out.
Is there a reliable, thorough site that gives up-to-date information on Windows software compatibility in Linux?
It's not the things that take up 80% of my time that worry me. I am sure it will be seamless to manage a word-compatible document or spreadsheet or browse the Internet. But the edge-cases - FL Studio, a specific game I want to play, some niche app I don't even notice I need until it's gone - make me hesitant to devote time into trying.
Some good starting points:
https://www.protondb.com/
https://appdb.winehq.org/
FL Studio on WineHQ: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=178
These databases are crowdsourced, so less popular apps will have less eyes on them. You can see on that FL Studio page that the tests are all over the place, with different app versions, different wine versions, and different ratings all the way from "garbage" to "platinum". This does not inspire confidence.
FOSS, WINE, and reducing tech clutter.
It's not perfect, but this is the Life of open source and proprietary software.
My plan is to have a Windows VM for when I can't make it work, but Wine should cover most cases.
You can always install Linux on a USB key to try it out and see how it would go using it for your main tasks.
That's a good reminder, thanks. I've done that in the past, but way too long ago to be relevant now.
I will update my Arch distro to Arch 2
"If Arch is so great, why haven't they made Arch 2?"
I refuse. Running Linux on every single device that I own
Hot take: Microsoft stops supporting Windows altogether and switches to maintaining its own Linux distro (yes, it does exist, but it's not for consumers)
Yeah, no way that's gonna happen. They're never gonna kiss those Windows licensing fees goodbye. If anything, they'll double down and make it a subscription. Linux is too free for Microsoft and their shareholders.
A subscription based operation system is what I like to call my worst nightmare.
Well, isn't it gonna fail since everyone is gonna be so mad about it that they're just gonna leave? Or is brand loyalty way too powerful?
In my experience, it isn't as much about brand loyalty as it is about a mix of convenience and damage control.
For as many faults as Windows has, Microsoft would definitely reel themselves in from jumping the shark. Yearly fees could be justified by saying they're really affordable + you get customer support. Add onto that how entrenched Windows is and how unapproachable the competition is by comparison(seriously, how many computers come with Linux or BSD pre-installed?) and you basically can't lose.
Sure, there will be a subset of people will switch to an alternative or pirate Windows, but regular home users aren't the major source of Microsoft's revenue anyway, it's businesses that largely depend on Windows.
Right.
I'm getting a second SSD to load Linux on to get used to it. When staying on 10 is no longer an option I guess I will just be full time Linux.
I'm in the same boat but I've had that SSD sitting in a box next to my PC for the past six weeks. I can't seem to dredge up the time to work on this project.
I went all in with Linux and dumped windows and android...
You're using a Linux phone? Which one
Android Is technically Linux tho
Not just technically. The killer combo of FOSS operating systems is GNU/Linux on desktop and Android OSP on mobile.
I'm curious what the person you replied to is running on their phone if it isn't Android based.
Let's be honest it's probably iOS. Gross.
Maybe Ubuntu touch?
I'm looking at Linux for my next gaming PC with either a Win10 partition or VM for poorly supported games/tools. But I also only update hardware every 5-10 years, so I'm not a bleeding edge kinda fella anymore.
As always: I'll do what I have to to be able to play the online games I want to play. Linux for everything else.
Is there any merit behind that win12 rumor yet? The original article was a big stretch and there was no reason to worry about it unless more evidence came out that they actually are moving to a subscription system.
Windows 10 will be my last Ms box. I've been cheating with Mint for a bit and I'll make the switch when the Ms box no longer works.
Yeah, this is what I've decided, too. I'll probably keep a Windows install going as long as 10 still works, but then after that I'll cancel gamepass and live without any games that won't work on Linux.
The further into the tech world I get, the more inviting Linux seems. I manage multiple PCs for my business, and holy shit is it aggravating to have to uninstall added garbage and shut off more background processes every time there's an non optional update. The update that was deemed critical a few weeks ago to protect against whatever new virus is around seemed reasonable, until I opened OOSU and saw outside of the security update, it also happed to turn telemetry back on, gave Microsoft apps permission to use the camera and microphone, reinstalled edge, and added a new update app that's not located with other apps and can't be found by REVO. It's difficult to make it what I want, but at least it's not impossible.
The way w11 is right now, if 10 gets dropped I'm jumping ship.
I just want a familiar, easy to use, lightweight os. My partner and I both have the same laptop. Mine is my modified w10 build, theirs is the best I could do with w11. Mine starts faster, the battery lasts longer, searching and file transfer is faster, and my temps are lower. I start with 28 background processes, theirs has 73. We do roughly the same things on them, and mine is better in virtually every way.
Want to change a setting? W10 already has 2 extra unnecessary menus to go through to find what you want. W11 put two more on top of that. I tried to use teams for business communication, but the machines took such a performance hit I got rid of it, and on 11 it's permanent and "functionally necessary" even though it will never be used.
W10 claimed IE, Cortana, Edge, Xbox, and OneDrive were necessary for the OS to work, but I can rip them out and every thing still works. On 11, the menus and file explorer will disappear if you remove programs you never wanted.
There is nothing better about the newer os' than windows 7. I don't want more 'features'. I don't want more 'ease of use' garbage. I don't want app based programs and menus. I don't want device syncing and cloud backups. I want computer settings, a file explorer, and the ability to install the programs I use and nothing else. How has no company done that yet?
Get yourself a cheap SSD and a usb3.2 enclosure. Use Ventoy to add ISOs to it, and you can choose the distro at boot and test them at close to installed speeds.
I've got about a dozen different distros that I'm trying out to see what's the best fit for me :)
I'll have to give it a go soon. I'm just a bit disappointed I'll have to develop another hobby to solve a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Yeah, I know that feeling.
On the bright side, apart from the initial learning curve, it's pretty straightforward, and gives you some extra skills :)
Are you using Enterprise edition? Standard hardware across users? Active Directory to push a standard set of GPOs and registry edits? Most of this stuff shouldn't be that hard to manage if you have an actual environment set up to do so and not a cobbled together unmanaged mess that grew/was built ad-hoc. That said not all of us are lucky enough to have any better than ad-hoc, and Microsoft in their infinite wisdom stopped offering general desktop and server management courses that might teach this shit a few years back.
Beyond that, you should probably hold back non-security patches and updates by a few weeks to a month. That gives you time to test on a pilot machine and identify what new settings you'll have to push to client machines, and time for the internet and MS to find any issues before you have to do so yourself.
Change to a Linux-only system. Parity is still not quite there, but hopefully it'll be enough by the time LTS Windows 10 dies.
Bet you anything they'll extend the EoL for Windows 10
I'm running Windows 11 now since I do a lot of PC gaming. Once you spend half an hour turning off the privacy-invading crap, it's pretty much still Windows 10.
Switching to Linux. Undecided what distro, but BunsenLabs has been my go-to light distro since #! (CrunchBang) died and Mint Debian Edition is also looking tempting.
Proton is good enough now that my entire argument for sticking with Windows has collapsed. I have no need for Windows anymore.
I've already been test-driving distros on my laptop. Still deciding whether to stick with Win10 on my desktop until I put another PC together, or go ahead and make the jump now.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think of Mabox?
Looks interesting. Hadn't run across it before. Will definitely check it out.
Microsoft never seems to stop making it harder to use Windows. At this point I have Windows 10 relegated to a USB SSD, and I only boot it in extreme circumstances. I have tried to install Windows 11, and it's just not happening. Microsoft stopped supporting Windows to Go years ago, and the installer simply will not play nice with my disk setup. I sunk more hours into troubleshooting Windows 11 installation than I have with any Linux distro I've used, and I still walked away without a working install.
So at this point it's all Linux, (almost) all the time.
I'm not going to lie and say that using Linux is a perfectly smooth experience. It's not. But neither is using Windows. As Thomas Jefferson once said: "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." The inconveniences of Windows are only getting more severe as time goes on.
I couldn't agree more. I've had Windows exposure since 3.1, and I somehow hate it more all the time.
In one of my last jobs I was a system admin, and the laptop they gave me had nearly-unfixable problem out of the gate. Microsoft's own fix it tools did nothing, repeatedly. I eventually had to go scorched earth on the registry to get anywhere with it. I have never struggled with Linux so much.
We will have to see what happens with Win12 as more info releases. Windows seems to follow a pattern of good > bad > good, where 10 is "good" and 11 is "bad", so maybe 12 will end up decent?
If Win12 ends up being garbage, then I guess I'll take another hard look at Linux. Hopefully game support will be better by then. Proton is nice for sure, but not quite where I would need it for some of the games I play.
This is my current stance. Wait and see - if Windows 12 ends up being garbage, I'll consider Linux. It's simply that Linux isn't compatible with enough Windows software right now that trying to transition wouldn't be seamless. Hopefully that'll change in a couple years, but we'll see
Hmmm. From what I've read, they were looking at making 12 subscription based and with more advertising opportunities. I'll probably just keep 10 rolling a little longer, and make a Linux switch eventually. Hopefully, after 11, Microsoft gets their shit together and realizes the path they are going down is not going to end well.
Just move onto the latest Windows.
Windows 12 is not a subscription, that was a rumor and was already disproven.
I'm not hopping on the Linux train. .. and neither are most people, though you wouldn't know it from the Lemmy population.
Arch Linux
"have to"?
I will continue to use Linux exclusively as I have for the last ten years.
I already switched to Linux when I began learning about the horrible privacy you have when using Windows.
May I suggest Linux Mint "Edge" version. It uses the Cinnamon desktop environment which is very familiar to Windows and the Edge version is using the latest kernel to support the most recent hardware and software.
Continue to use OpenSUSE
I'll figure out which is better between windows 11 and 12 and then move to that
Assuming 12 is terrible, that's probably when I'll make the switch to Linux. Hopefully by then, it'll be even smoother for newbies, and work even better for gaming than it already does
I tried out Garuda Linux for a while (had to switch back to Windows because of an automotive ODB II program), and I can confirm that it worked better for Remote Play than Windows. With the runaway success of the Steam Deck, I expect that to only improve.
I keep a spare laptop around just for those occasions when something absolutely requires windows. I don't use it much but it beats the pants off of maintaining a dual boot setup on my daily driver. (I spent like, $200? On the spare. I picked up an "as-is, boots and works fine but has no SSD installed" 12th gen i7 laptop on fleaBay. Absolutely worth it.)
I might switch to Linux, gonna be hard tho when you got elitists and gatekeepers in the Linux instance
The linux community is 99% people that want to help you switch, and will go far, far beyond what's even reasonable to ask of someone in the way of help. And Linux is to the point of not needing any assistance to get installed on most hardware.
If that's your reason for not switching, it sounds like an excuse.
You are correct, it's a warm and helpful community... except for the people who like the smell of their own farts.
Lemmy is better. But reddit is lousy with ignorant twats saying bullshit like "Linux is just a superior philosophy", but who have never written a line of C or C++ in their lives. They know nothing about system design or computing history. They make claims about windows that apply equally to linux, or vice versa. They use terminology in a nonsensical context. In short, smug fools. It's not unwelcoming so much as unappealing.
The best thing about Windows is that no-one is smug about using it.
That's a stretch. I mean, look at the community you're in. You go to the subreddit and it is chock full of smug cunts.
Man it is just not like that. At least for me I tried to switch to Linux a while back and had nothing but problems.
You also have to realize that most people coming from windows have years of experience with that operating system and learning something brand new can be a challenge.
On the Linux community site I agree there's a lot of people trying to help but very few of that trickles down to the end user. When you Google something you inevitably come up with some ancient forum thread that leads you to put some crazy ass command line command in without explaining literally any of it. The assumption is that if you're using Linux you should already be a master at the operating system.
I will say that install of the next went really really well for me I installed pop os which seems like it's the most user friendly option. But after a while you just want something to work. It is not too much to ask for there to be a gui implementation of something. And for there to be somewhere to go to ask a question without being fucking badgered by people who think just asking the question makes you a fucking dumbass.
The ONLY thing keeping me off Linux atm is VR.
My use case is more specific than just a Valve Index though. I have a Windows Mixed Reality headset (Samsung Odyssey HMD+) and requires windows to run well and feature full.
I really like having the option to whip out VR at a moments notice. Maybe ill dual boot linix, but it seems like a pain for whats essentially going to be my home media console/gaming rig.
I did turn my old rig into a Linux computer for my personal desktop. Loving Pop OS! From a casual perspective. I just need my browser, steam, and some FOSS linux alternatives.
I switched to Linux the other day. I still have Windows installed in case I need it for things, and I still have GamePass, which requires windows. I've been using Linux for just about everything though since I installed it. It's such a nicer experience. You don't have to choose a singular OS though luckily. You can have both available.
Regarding VR, Monado (OpenXR for Linux) continues to improve, they'll get WMR going, completely, eventually.
Edit: it's further along than I thought. Apparently you can get even hand tracking working. Gotta look into it further, but it appears that you use Monado as your OpenXR client, along with ALVR/ALXR.
Fantastic news. Im totally down to go down this rabbit hole again and see where these projects are sitting now. Thanks for the heads up.
Same, I was considering Linux, but I have a reverb g2, so atm it's a no go.
There are dozens of us!! Dozens!!
Hopefully I will be on SteamOS or some other Linux distribution by them.
I'm planning on dual booting to test the waters and hopefully phase out windows for good in the next years.
windows, what's that?
Still too much of a VR player to switch to Linux :/
Might get some hate from this, but... It's not as easy of a transition for everyone as the Linux crowd says it is.
I'm hoping Valve will start putting more effort into SteamVR for Linux and/or Proton for VR.
Switch to Linux. In fact, I already switched when Windows 10 came around. I don't miss Windows to be honest. The only time I use Windows is to play games that arent compatible with Linux or if I need to use an app that is only available for Windows.
Do my best to switch from windows to whatever Linux distro I've finally decided on. Anything I really need win10 for will just end up on a VM that I'll probably store a copy of on an external drive. It'll make things so much easier for me that way.
I'd get the best of both worlds, so long as I completely de-creepify the copy of win10 in the VM. Thank goodness there are tools for that.
If Game Maker ends up releasing their Linux IDE in a non-beta state, I'll switch to Linux tomorrow. It's one of the few tools still keeping me on Windows.
I'll complete skip win11. So far there's no reason to upgrade. Win11 should logically be a good windows again.
Actually switch to Linux. I already use Linux for a large portion of my work, so I'm comfortable with it. I just need to find and test some replacements for some Windows software and I should be good
There's also a chance you might get your Windows software working via Wine.
Looking at Linux Mint or Nobara already
Linux, Gaben be praised for lowering the bridge
I don't think I'll need to update my VMs
I'm already never touching win 11, so if Win10 goes, so do I. No way in hell will I run another MS OS.
In my windows 10 server change to Ubuntu. In my personal pc continue using windows 11 or 12 when release
LOL what? That's not how OSs work.
Operation of a machine, by definition, requires the machine to work.
All of Microsoft's other software already exists in cloud form, what those rumors mean, to my knowledge, is that the usual windows suite of programs would be cloud only, requiring a Microsoft account and subscription.
The OS itself by definition can't be cloud based, they can make it a subscription however.
2 things: First, Windows 12 being subscription only has been "debunked" multiple times, as the source for the article that shouted that from the rooftops was code for Windows 11 - which MS is currently working to have a subscription cloud-based version of for enterprise customers. Second, MS is 100% working on and going to launch cloud based Windows for enterprise customers "soon". It can be largely cloud based, and all that has to be installed local is instructions for how to log in and access the cloud during boot, and likely won't be able to do anything itself if the internet is disconnected.
Welcome back to the age of thin clients and terminals, only this time the mainframe is in someone else's closet.
If that allows me to just not sign in and have to remove a bunch of automatically downloaded bullshit I'll be a happy individual.
It's more likely it just won't work and will force you to make an account, but I can dream
That's likely if they decide to switch to mandatory accounts.
Goddamn Lemmy is just retarded.