There is no proof Palestinian fighters ‘beheaded’ babies. The only source is a radical settler.
U.S. and international media outlets are repeating unsubstantiated claims that Palestinian fighters "beheaded" babies. These unverified assertions aren't just sloppy journalism — they are being used to justify a massacre.
One story has been dominating the U.S. and international media cycle for the past 24 hours. It has been repeated by pro-Israel activists, Israeli government officials, reporters, and anchors throughout the U.S. media and even alluded to by the President. The thing is — this story has not been confirmed in any way. It appears to come from a single source with a history of espousing calls for genocidal violence against Palestinians.
You have probably heard the story that Hamas fighters beheaded 40 Israeli children in the Kfar Aza community near Gaza. This story can be traced back to an article by Bel Trew, a reporter for The Independent. Trew entered Kfar Aza on October 10, soon after the Israeli army, and reported on Twitter that gunfire erupted just as they arrived. She is told by a member of the Israeli military that children were beheaded, but the article notes, “The Independent did not see evidence of this.”
The military source of this claim is Major David Ben Zion. According to his Twitter bio, he is the Deputy Head of the settler leadership organization, the Samaria Regional Council, and a member of the Board of Directors of the National Fund for Israel, a quasi-governmental agency used to acquire land in Palestine that is then made available exclusively for use by the Israeli state.
In this video clip, Ben Zion speaks directly to the camera. He says the soldiers found children with their heads cut off. He is incorrectly named on-screen in the video but is correctly named in the description below the video on YouTube.
In addition to his role in settler leadership, Ben Zion has a history of calls to genocidal violence.
Earlier this year, Israeli settlers carried out a so-called “reprisal attack” on the Palestinian village of Huwwara after an unknown Palestinian gunman killed two Israeli settlers. As we reported at the time, Israeli settlers launched a ‘pogrom’ on the night of February 26, attacking Palestinian homes and property in Huwwara, Burin, and across the Nablus area, burning houses, cars, vandalizing property, and assaulting Palestinians.
archive: https://archive.ph/AUb6K
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/there-is-no-proof-palestinian-fighters-beheaded-babies-the-only-source-is-a-radical-settler/Open linkView original on lemmy.zip
Just a reminder that the last time we heard stories about people murdering innocent babies, it was complete bullshit. Keep your grains of salt handy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
"In her testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, remove the incubators and leave the babies to die.
Her story was initially corroborated by Amnesty International, a British-based global NGO, which published a report about the supposed killings[3] and testimony from evacuees. Following the liberation of Kuwait, reporters were given access to the country. An ABC report found that "patients, including premature babies, did die, when many of Kuwait's nurses and doctors ... fled" but Iraqi troops "almost certainly had not stolen hospital incubators and left hundreds of Kuwaiti babies to die."[4] Amnesty International USA reacted by issuing a correction, with executive director John Healey subsequently accusing the Bush administration of "opportunistic manipulation of the international human rights movement".[5]"
Edit This mass beheading story also now appears to be bullshit:
"Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack"
Source:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
"CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.
CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either."
Yes, that Kuwaiti story came to mind when I read the story about 40 children in a community of 160 people.
I mean, the math does work out... 160 people minus 40 kids = 120 adults or 60 couples.
40 kids on 60 couples seems very plausible.
Also if people gave a shit to read the claim was 40 kids dead SOME beheaded.
Uh, the last time we heard this it was the Russians in Ukraine and the ICC finds those claims credible enough to investigate.
All the claims should be investigated, we shouldn't take them at face value
In multiple cases there is video footage, you can find it online if you look.
Ok? I'm saying that we these stories should be investigated for the sake of accuracy and disinformation fighting. Nothing else.
If there are lives on the line and someone says tomorrow is Wednesday we should make sure for the sake of those lives.
Well, Israel is a country thats kind of in a war and that is where the most propaganda gets spread. But if anyone "controls the media" it would be the big and powerful countries which in the "western world" is mostly just the USA and a bit of stuff from Russia. Since Irael is allied to the US it profits from their propaganda machinery.
Yeah no. That's antisemitic bullshit you see literal Nazis spout off about.
This recent "story" was only posted in a shitty tabloid, picked up by a couple other shitty tabloids, and gullible people spread it all over social media.
If you're trusting Indian media regarding Muslims then it's already too late for you
Who cares? Facts are so last century. Who tells the best lie the loudest wins. Isn't that what you all wanted when you started rewarding media with clicks for the most rage-inducing bullshit instead of paying to actually get informed?
The guy was called Ben ZION? That sounds like bad fiction.
Edit: I know this name is propably very common in Israel.
It means "Son of Zion" so...
When Haaretz starts walking back accusations against the Palestinians, then you know they have to be bullshit.
Bothsides people aren't going to care if this is real or not. They've already decided which side they're on, everything else is a means to an end.
Dude... Have some faith in the ability for critical thought? Most people are idiots, but the truth really matters to the rest.
Every time I open up my message notifications, any hope I have of good faith on this website is reset to zero.
I wake up and check my notifications and half of them are removed and I check the modlogs to see, for good reason.
Hang in there. Critical thought, measured skepticism, and a desire to learn and understand before speaking, are all very quiet compared to what you encounter on public forums. Doesn't mean it isn't there.
Justification to do what, exactly?
Kill thousands of civilians in Gaza?
Well they've never needed justification before...
what about ism
It's not just whataboutism because they said the word "what".
And no one anywhere was (should have been) surprised.
Which crazy "media" sources are saying this?
Note that OP posted a source deemed a Questionable Source by MBFC and has received funding from antisemitic sources in the past
I don't understand why it makes such a difference whether the killed babies were beheaded. Isn't killing innocent babies bad enough?
I think it matters a lot if a group of people summarily executed 40 babies intentionally, there is a huge difference between civilian casualties in an attack and the intentional targeting of children in an attack and I think you would have to be pretty naive not to know there is a big difference between those two things, civilian deaths are inherently bad, but intentionally targeting children attaches an indescribable evil to the actions, which I'm guessing is the point of why this story circulated, and I would be very surprised if anything remotely similar to Hamas beheaded 40 children turns out to be the truth
Intentional killing of civilians, including children, seems to be a well-established fact at this stage.
We are on marxist-leninist lemmy at the moment, facts are secondary
Then why lie about beheadings?
I think it is important that we separate fact from fiction. That being said, I do agree that just the fact that children were murdered in any manner is abhorrent. That goes for both Israeli and Palestinian children. Innocent blood is on the hands of multiple people/groups/nations... and it is unacceptable. We have to mentally separate groups like Hamas from the populations they live amongst because they are not the same. After all, not all Americans are Proud Boys or Oath Keepers and not all citizens support the actions of the governments they live under.
If your question is genuine. Then the answer is pretty obvious to me at least, and I'm glad i can help you out here. The point of these kind of lies is to dehumanise your enemy. When Israel then goes ahead and kills a much larger number of babies, it's easier to sell why they "had to do this".
"Wtf are you talking about you piece of shit, Israel has done no such thing", I imagine some thinking. Well..... Historically they've killed Palestinian children at a rate of 20:1. But, what about these 40 cases who are still without any proof (smell test: there is likely none, or it would've surfaced day 1). Aaaannnnd, how many are estimated dead in Gaza bombings the past days? 1400 Palestinians, in a defacto prison where half are children.
"Yeah... But they had it coming. Because I'm emotionally riled up by the animalistic brutal acts done by beheadi.... Hmm... Ah, I see"
Clears it up for you?
Like the settlers who were kicking palestinians from their homes and literally taking possession of these houses? 109 and it was never your fault?
No you see, those weren't beheaded toddlers. Those were insurgents with dwarfism that took their own lives after being humanely arrested. ( /s just in case)
They didn't behead babies!
They only use their own citizens as human shields and parade tourists around like war spoils before killing them. Such shining examples of humanity Hamas is.
I was pretty sure these israeli funded cowards will create such stories. They have to go over the top in every fucking things. This racist entity does not want to be part of mankind, no.
They are fucking funded, they are in the top 5 of weapon manufacturers, they act like terrorists (sorry, this is not a state), and still, they play the victim while shooting behind their desk.
you don't have to be arab to be disgusted by such amount of cowardice.
The fact that it was believable says something
Is that just me or does anyone else not believe stuff like this any more in general? I mean "they are killing babies/kittens/puppies/..." kind of arguments or "We need to violate these basic human rights because of child abuse/rapists/terrorists/..." kind of arguments in political discussions.
Classic dehumanization playbook
Hamas just killed a massive number of civilians. How is it unbelievable that they might layer another bit of brutality on top of that?
Okay, first, there's a critical distinguishing factor: Israel is acting with disregard to the lives of civilians. Hamas specifically targeted civilians. I'm sure there are some soldiers that would absolutely do that if given the chance, but the IDF seems to be more interested in long range strikes where this particular action just isn't possible.
Second, I'm not necessarily saying that Hamas did this particular act. I'm still hearing conflicting reports. But when you've already descended into the depravity of killing babies and other civilians then what's a little more depravity? The claim should be approached with some skepticism, but given everything I know to be true I in turn don't find it unbelievable that they did it.
This disinformation is old, friend. The images of the dead babies are out.
"Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack"
Source:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
"CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.
CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either."
What kind of evidence are you looking for? The government confirmed it. Are you looking for pictures of beheaded babies, because I think you will be disappointed if you expect that
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1712235926426907075?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712235926426907075%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F1bsso361afr0r%2FLiveUpdate_75a1afca-688e-11ee-a8bf-2ebda78b45da%2F0
The last time we heard a story like this it was "confirmed" by Amnesty International and then still turned out to be bullshit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
So yeah, for now I'm skeptical. "In war, truth is the first casualty." - Aeschylus
When you say "the government", it would help to specify which government. I'm not saying Israel is lying. But take it with a grain of salt.
If you bothered to click the link it would tell you
tldr: the Israeli government
I did click it. Which is why I said Israel. It's misleading to just say "the government". Which is why I said what I said.
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-pictures-terrorists-beheading-children-white-house-2023-10?op=1
This the same guy you're talking about? They certainly confirmed Biden did not see any evidence, maybe consider not spreading misinformation
Don't be afraid to click the link. I wish you would do that before blindly accusing me of misinformation.The confirmation comes from the Israeli government
you have no media literacy or you are engaging in bad faith
they say explicitly the sources are unamed soldiers and there was no further verification other than what the soldiers claimed, is that solid evidence for you
This certainly does not sound like evidence "I don't have an evidence and I'm not looking for one." is Business Insider misquoting them? and it seems like they aren't in a rush to look into it either,
imagine if we just believed everything about the Ukraine war that Russian soldiers told the Russian army spokesman, I'm gonna guess for some reason you wouldn't trust Russian soldiers saying similar things about Azov, but you implicitly trust the heresay of IDF fighters about Hamas, maybe consider where your information is coming from and whether it is verified by any remotely credible source
Okok but what about this: https://www.wionews.com/world/trigger-warning-israel-pms-x-account-shares-photos-of-babies-allegedly-killed-by-hamas-646017
I've been posting this link (though there are many like it) because I want to see if there's anything I'm missing. It seems like Israel has proof of the killing of children, though I believe beheading was not the major method. I don't think the method is really all that important here though.
Edit: forgot to add that the Israeli PM literally posted these less than an hour before I'm writing this.
Nobody is saying Hamas hasn't killed children, what we're saying is the story of a mass beheading is bullshit.
Your link shows three photos blurred to the point of indistinction with the caption reading "murdered and burned", nothing about a mass beheading.
If your moral compass is - oh at least they weren't beheaded, then your morals are a lost cause anyway. Do you seriously want to see pictures of beheaded kids to believe them? Holy shit you guys are either cynical supreme or just hate Israel. Either way, I don't care
My moral compass is "be aware, people lie about shit in wartime, happens all the time."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Libyan_rape_allegations
Only been happening for a few thousand years now:
"In war, truth is the first casualty." - Aeschylus, 525/524 – 456/455 BC.
Don't take away from the ACTUAL horrors of war by promoting bullshit stories with no evidence. There are more than enough horrors to go around.
Edit It's now confirmed to be bullshit:
"Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack"
Source:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
"CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.
CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either."
"Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack"
Source:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
"CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.
CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either."
Are you talking about the government that's been outed for outright lying about atrocities by its own people?
What about the one that provided pictures: https://www.wionews.com/world/trigger-warning-israel-pms-x-account-shares-photos-of-babies-allegedly-killed-by-hamas-646017
Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I do not know a ton about the situation, but the PM literally just posted stuff less than an hour before I'm writing this.
Nobody is saying Hamas hasn't killed children, what we're saying is the story of a mass beheading is bullshit.
Your link shows three photos blurred to the point of indistinction with the caption reading "murdered and burned", nothing about a mass beheading.
Hamas didn't behead babies. They murdered them the old ethical way!
One story being bullshit doesn't justify their other actions. It simply means that first story is bullshit.
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-pictures-terrorists-beheading-children-white-house-2023-10?op=1
This the same guy you're talking about? They certainly confirmed Biden did not see any evidence, maybe consider not spreading misinformation
Do you have a timestamp? I'm not watching the whole 20 minutes and they didn't mention this incident in the first few minutes I watched.
Also, I don't know about propaganda. People are just weary about trusting Israel without a question. I don't think that's unreasonable.
"Error opening link", so no. Not good enough.
Looks like it's been updated since you linked it:
"After the comments, the White House clarified that Biden had read news reports."
So no, no evidence yet. Biden heard about it from unconfirmed reporting, same as everyone else.
I urge caution on stories like this because a) it's inflammatory, and b) I'm old enough to remember the "baby incubator" stories from Kuwait which were initially confirmed by Amnesty International, but then turned out to be complete bullshit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
Edit
"Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack"
Source:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
"CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.
CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either."
LOL - "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
Everything people are linking to thinking this supports their assertion does the exact opposite.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/unverified-allegations-beheaded-babies-israel-hamas-war-inflame-social-rcna119902
"No photo evidence had been made public as of Thursday morning corroborating claims that babies had been beheaded. Israel has published photos of dead infants after the terror attack."
Again, nobody is saying Hamas hasn't killed innocent kids, it's clear they have.
What we ARE saying is the claim of a mass beheading is bullshit.
Edit Now confirmed to be bullshit. This is why I encourage caution with these types of stories.
"Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack"
Source:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
"CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.
CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either.