You're right, as an American I knew the specific government agency that overthrew foreign governments. But I don't mean to imply that the U.S. government is blameless.
"The five-day visit took place last week and included envoys from countries including Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen and Pakistan. The >delegation visited the provincial capital Urumqi in addition to Kashgar and Aksu prefectures. They were met by Ma Xingrui, secretary of the >Party Committee of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
A spokesperson for theFforeign Ministry, Hua Chunying said the diplomats visited mosques, Islamic schools, museums, old city renovation, >grassroots communities, technology enterprises, green development and rural revitalisation projects.
“Members of the delegation expressed that the Chinese government adheres to the people-centred approach and has made great >achievements in promoting the governance and development of Xinjiang,” she said."
Algeria’s Ambassador to China, Hassane Rabehi, was quoted by local media as saying, “The fruit here is so sweet, just like the life of the >people here”, adding that he got to know the “real situation” of Xinjiang, where the rights of people of all ethnic groups are well protected, >said reports.
Following the event, a press release by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that envoys expressed that “freedom of religious belief and >various rights of Muslims are duly guaranteed.” And that what the delegation saw and heard along the way “is completely different from what >some Western media reported.”
"MEMO generally supports Islamist positions"
"the Middle East Monitor promotes a strongly pro-Muslim Brotherhood and pro-Hamas viewpoint"
" We could not find any instances of the Middle East Monitor failing fact checks"
The source in this article is a direct quote from government officials both China and from the countries that sent the delegates. If in fact there was a "genocide" I would expect a "pro-Muslim" news outlet to agree with what western media is spouting.
I bet they did according to Xi and the CCP, but not in reality.
Even if they did, they're probably faking it because trade with China is more important to them than human rights, just like the US and Saudi Arabia or the other Western countries and the US..
"aborigines" is not a great word to use these days. It's generally seen as pretty offensive to Indigenous Australians as it's a bit dehumanising and comes from colinisers who treated people like animals.
Better to go with "First Nations people", "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people" or "Indigenous Australians."
But yes, they've been treated (and in many cases continue to be treated) pretty horribly.
Blaming the Catholic Church is a good way to start but the argument that Irish people were led astray by the Church is pretty much the same argument as those who seek to divorce the Wehrmacht from complicity in SS atrocities. In both cases the answer is that they shared vital infrastructure with each other and ranking officials could have stopped the excesses, which they had full knowledge of, if they'd have disagreed with it.
"Ahem. I am asking you if people were killed in the area immediately surrounding Tiananmen Square, even if nobody was killed in the square itself."
—"The protesters in Tiananmen Square left after negotiations with the PLA. There was no bloodshed in Tiananmen Square."
"I understand that, but were people killed elsewhere in Beijing?"
—"Nowhere in Beijing were student protestors specifically targeted."
"Well, were non-students targeted, and were any students injured or killed without being targeted?"
—"Hey did you know that the Three Gorges Dam is the world's largest—"
"Gongchandang, my friend, I am begging you."
—"...Force may have been used when provoked by attacks."
"May force have also been used unprovoked? Could it have been that the protesters felt like they were provoked first, because you were sending tanks past the barricades that they'd put up?"
—"I mean... you know... uhh..."
"Gongchandang. Were you scared that the occupation of Beijing and the potential of a workers' revolt would threaten the survival of socialism in China, by presenting a still-socialist alternative to your rule, because societal division particularly among the less politically literate could be (and was) exploited by outside forces?"
—"OUR YOUTH ARE VULNERABLE TO IMPERIALIST PROPAGANDA, OK‽ ALSO, TANK MAN DIDN'T GET RUN OVER. SEE. HE WAS PULLED AWAY BY A PASSERBY. NOT RUN OVER."
Or the invasion of Vietnam... Or the annexation of Tibet... Or the bullying of Southeast Asian countries... Or the great leap forward... Or the communist land reforms... Or the anti counterrevolutionary campaigns
The CCP leaves you no end of really good options to pick here.
Yeah tiananmen is such a meme at this point. You can tell when people base their entire politics on memes and don't bother reading and searching on their own. Tiananmen is an issue they won't step mentioning.
I'm pretty skeptical about taking political positions from memes, and when I've done my own research on this, I failed to find valid reasons that this issue should get the attention that the Internet gives it. There are many other issues that are worth my attention. This one isn't.
I love how you ignored everything in the article except what could possibly agree with your viewpoint. On your first quote, the link they cite does not exist anymore. In the video you linked, I hear gunshots but don't see people running away from them. As someone from a country that saw unrest and shooting at protests, I can tell you that people immediately start running when they're shot at, emptying the area. Not continue to March nonchalantly.
In the end, I want to conclude with saying that I didn't deny that anyone died (although the comment I linked does seem to imply that. My apologies for not clarifying, as I was only using them to back up my opinion). What I said in the original comment is that it is not an issue worth my attention. I've seen and read about so many government rerpression, and this is far from being in the top 10. It's an unnecessarily magnified issue.
I mean, it's a variety of sourced quotes from respected journalists who were there. You probably should read them all, if only so you can point out to the Hexbears where they mention all the people who died in the area around the Square. The sources mostly say "no one got gunned down literally in the Square."
In any case, it's fucking weird to obsess over it. It's like trying to give Biden crap about the Kent State Massacre while he's rounding up all the Mormons.
I agree with that commenter. I do not claim that "nothing happened". I said this in my earlier comments, that I just don't think it's a problem worth my attention.
Numerous military buses, trucks, armored vehicles, and tanks being burned by the “peaceful” protesters. Sometimes the soldiers were allowed to escape, and sometimes they were brutally killed by the protesters. Numerous protesters were armed with Molotov cocktails and even guns.
To be fair, Germans largely don't deny what happened. Being a holocaust denier can even get you into prison. IHMO that is how you should handle such matters.
Yes i know but i couldnt come up with a simmilar example about them. If you know of a better one about Germany do let me know and ill change it. Im being frendly about this btw, sorry if i sound condesending, thats not my intention.
How a person reacts to being asked about the version of these things most close to them is telling. If they get defensive and deny the event happened, I would hesitate to trust their opinion on other things. Clearly that person bases their opinions on what they want to be true rather than reality. That's the kind of person whose ideology would likely lead to another event to be ashamed of. If, on the other hand, they admit it was a horrible thing and agree that people should be educated on it and that steps should be taken to prevent it from ever happening again, then I'm more likely to take their opinion seriously and believe that they can be part of the conversations we need to happen to create a better world.
Don't ask the UK anything about their troubling history with black people or slavery unless it's to mention that they were one of the first countries to stop making black people property. They get really mad if you mention anything but that.
Was about to comment "the germans about ww2" but then remembered that we are quite open about that time. Wouldn't have made much sense either as there would be no use in evem trying to hide it
"Germany about colonialism" would be a better fit.
Also the german sentiment about WW2 is something that survivors for ever, students in the 60s/70s and antifascists right now fought for / are fighting for. Considering we have parts of the country that vote 30%+ for members of a nazi party the sentiment could shift really fast and atleast from my perspective considerably shifted already
Thats not really my standard. I would like Germany to actually do stuff like returning stolen cultural goods and paying reperations instead of dodging responsibilty
That's why it's so abhorrent that voices from the right but not only from the right get louder, that demand an end to the relatively good remembrance culture here in Germany. I hate the: "it was so long ago, it wasn't us" talking points. It's the first step towards forgetting, historic revisionism and possibly repeating the things that were done.
Not to be pedantic about a meme but I would consider the US repeatedly detonating nuclear weapons on the Marshall Islands and then doing jack shit to clean up the mess to be worse than any coup.
67 of them to be exact. 70 years later, the Marshallese are still the ones paying the price of that incredibly bad decision.
It’s just weird that nuclear bombs came to your mind, but somehow the nuclear annihilation of two civilian cities was less salient to you than uninhabited islands.
"MEN OTEMJEJ REJ ILO BEIN ANIJ" — "ALL IS IN THE HANDS OF GOD" — were the words uttered by Juda, leader of the Bikinians, to Commodore Wyatt when asked to exile his own people for the "good of mankind". It is said that Juda's words were intended to imply, "It would literally take divine intervention for me to agree to this.". Nevertheless, the Bikinians would be taken from their homes, and as the ships sailed away, the Bikinians got to watch their many-generations' houses and boats get burned down by the American soldiers. Many of the Bikinians wouldn't eat after witnessing that, and they would live in poverty in their new homes.
It's no wonder, then, that the Bikinian flag looks like a desecrated American flag.
This isn't to say that Bikini was a more inhumane act than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hearing any recollection by survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or seeing any of the artwork that they created to process their experiences, makes that much obvious. But you hear about Hiroshima and Nagasaki: it has a place in the popular imagination, even if it is a heavily sanitized version that portrays the annihilation as "necessary".
In contrast, when's the last time you met someone who knew of "Bikini" as anything other than swimwear?
Fair that the cities were worse, but the islands were not uninhabited. The people there were evacuated (they were told temporarily) and the place they were evacuated to was still within the fallout zone. A lot of people died pretty much immediately and they're still dealing with increased cancer and birth defects today.
This was when these weapons were fairly new, and what little information we had about them was not given to the people of these people before they were pressured into allowing their islands to be testing grounds.
The two uses of nuclear weapons in Japan were horrible. It's been long debated whether or not that choice vs. the invasion planned was the better of two. I won't get into that.
What is more horrible is that instead of staying shocked at the potential of nuclear war, humans in every nation that could tried to make more and bigger ones...for defense, of course. And the islands weren't originally uninhabited, that's a nice story of forced relocation for the humans. The wildlife, not so much. That was the point of the post, the history of nuclear arms post-Japan is far worse than the first two bombs used.
Ackshully all gold trade with Russia was stopped the second they launched their full scale invasion of Ukraine. We're implementing the same sanctions as the EU.
No no no.... They just decided to restrike all their Swiss francs for no good reason whatsoever... Just for fun. Totally normal... Despite the expense.
How many tooth filings and wedding rings does it take to make 20 francs?
"Let them burn to death" is a really bootlick-y way to phrase "were burned alive when the FBI launched illegal incendiary tear gas cannisters into a building they knew had children inside."
Honestly, I read the above article a few months ago, and I think it is a genuinely good article that I would recommend others read. It was written nine years after Tiananmen by Jay Mathews of the Washington Post, who was in Beijing during the protests; and the Columbia Journalism Review is a respected publication written by and for professional journalists. So the article is basically just trying to disspell the dumbing down and memeifying and misremembering and making-into-propaganda that happened with Tiananmen, and which honestly tends to happen with any major loss of life. No conspiracy theories, no denialism or claiming that "they had it coming", just dispelling misconceptions. It's good stuff.
I can't speak for Davel's other comment citing Prolewiki, though — I'm pretty skeptical to any website that tries to be Wikipedia but for X ideology.
In any case, this "butthurt report" feels pretty unfair, although I honestly did kinda roll my eyes at how Davel's comment said "6 out of 7 ain't bad", that was kinda cringe... But basically, what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't fault someone for commenting under a "9/11 NEVER FORGET" post about the extent to which mismanagement and confusion contributed to the death toll of that, and likewise I wouldn't fault someone for commenting under a Tiananmen Square post with more nuance about that event.
And obviously the English language Wikipedia is generally going to have an anglo-Atlanticist point of view, as virtually all L1 English speakers and most many L2 English speakers do.
Honestly, I absolutely already believe that Wikipedia can be highly biased in those ways. The problem is really just with the liberal shaitan who whispers kapitalist propaganda into my ears. I should know better.
The 1989 Tian'anmen Square riots (天安门事件) were a CIA-backed attempt at a color revolution against the People's Republic of China in 1989. Reservations over Deng Xiaoping's reform and opening up policies sparked peaceful protests, which the CPC negotiated with, but soon a foreign-funded faction of students joined the protests and, due to their promotion by Western media, took over the protests and took them in an entirely different direction than what was originally envisioned.
[…]
As the protests were winding down and many protestors went home, the Chinese government sent unarmed PLA troops the clear the square of remaining protestors as the Beijing police was overwhelmed due to their sheer numbers throughout the city. On June 2, rioters burned and lynched unarmed soldiers trying to enter the square. The troops were initially unarmed, but were given weapons on June 3 after the students took some soldiers hostage. They were blocked from entering the square by crowds armed with petrol bombs, iron clubs, and Molotov cocktails. The rioters destroyed over 400 vehicles and destroyed a convoy of over 100 vehicles in western Beijing.
[…]
The riots in Beijing resulted in approximately 300 total deaths, including 36 students, 10 PLA soldiers, and 13 police officers. All of the deaths occurred outside of the square itself.
The 1% how much taxes they pay
You're too generous for not making it a yes/no question
You can tell the poster is American because they blame the government involved for all of these except the US, where they blamed the CIA.
You're right, as an American I knew the specific government agency that overthrew foreign governments. But I don't mean to imply that the U.S. government is blameless.
I agree with the sentiment, I was just amused that your bias was showing.
In context it does. That's how I correctly guessed they were American.
I mean the CIA is the us government
No you see it was just a few bad apples.
The CIA is part of the US government.
Don't ask OP about the use of prepositions
The Australian's about their treatment of
aboriginesfirst nation AustraliansThe Irish about mother and baby homes.
China about Uyghurs
Russians about Crimea and Donbass
Didn't a bunch of Muslim countries actually ask China about Uyghurs (and even visit Xinjiang) and they left unanimously content with the response?
should be easy enough for you to provide a legitimate source to this claim.
please note the word "legitimate"
The other reply to this post provides a pretty legitimate source.
But, well, it's not exactly hard to Google.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220810-diplomats-from-30-muslim-countries-visited-chinas-xinjiang-region/
Per https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/middle-east-monitor/
The source in this article is a direct quote from government officials both China and from the countries that sent the delegates. If in fact there was a "genocide" I would expect a "pro-Muslim" news outlet to agree with what western media is spouting.
Does this pass your legitimacy test? If not, why?
I bet they did according to Xi and the CCP, but not in reality.
Even if they did, they're probably faking it because trade with China is more important to them than human rights, just like the US and Saudi Arabia or the other Western countries and the US..
"aborigines" is not a great word to use these days. It's generally seen as pretty offensive to Indigenous Australians as it's a bit dehumanising and comes from colinisers who treated people like animals.
Better to go with "First Nations people", "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people" or "Indigenous Australians."
But yes, they've been treated (and in many cases continue to be treated) pretty horribly.
Thanks. I kinda knew it wasn't great, but didn't know the correct term.
The one that confuses me, is the statement about the Irish.
I guess you could say ask the Catholic church about Irish mother and baby homes. But the meme was doing nations.
Blaming the Catholic Church is a good way to start but the argument that Irish people were led astray by the Church is pretty much the same argument as those who seek to divorce the Wehrmacht from complicity in SS atrocities. In both cases the answer is that they shared vital infrastructure with each other and ranking officials could have stopped the excesses, which they had full knowledge of, if they'd have disagreed with it.
Ask them about their tax avoidance schemes for big tech
australia has much more shit going.... like storing asylumseekers in some far away islands
Never ask a Lemmy user where they've hidden the good posts.
The US about indigenous Americans.
Oh wait, they made hundreds of movies about killing them.
"Was there a massacre in Tiananmen Square?"
—"No."
"Were people killed elsewhere in Beijing?"
—"...Ermh..."
"Ahem. I am asking you if people were killed in the area immediately surrounding Tiananmen Square, even if nobody was killed in the square itself."
—"The protesters in Tiananmen Square left after negotiations with the PLA. There was no bloodshed in Tiananmen Square."
"I understand that, but were people killed elsewhere in Beijing?"
—"Nowhere in Beijing were student protestors specifically targeted."
"Well, were non-students targeted, and were any students injured or killed without being targeted?"
—"Hey did you know that the Three Gorges Dam is the world's largest—"
"Gongchandang, my friend, I am begging you."
—"...Force may have been used when provoked by attacks."
"May force have also been used unprovoked? Could it have been that the protesters felt like they were provoked first, because you were sending tanks past the barricades that they'd put up?"
—"I mean... you know... uhh..."
"Gongchandang. Were you scared that the occupation of Beijing and the potential of a workers' revolt would threaten the survival of socialism in China, by presenting a still-socialist alternative to your rule, because societal division particularly among the less politically literate could be (and was) exploited by outside forces?"
—"OUR YOUTH ARE VULNERABLE TO IMPERIALIST PROPAGANDA, OK‽ ALSO, TANK MAN DIDN'T GET RUN OVER. SEE. HE WAS PULLED AWAY BY A PASSERBY. NOT RUN OVER."
I don't know if I would have used Tiananmen Square.
The Uighur re-education cities seems far more fitting.
CCP actors are not allowed to talk about Tiananmen. They are also not allowed to talk about feminism weirdly enough
Or the invasion of Vietnam... Or the annexation of Tibet... Or the bullying of Southeast Asian countries... Or the great leap forward... Or the communist land reforms... Or the anti counterrevolutionary campaigns
The CCP leaves you no end of really good options to pick here.
If these "cities" exist which are claimed to have imprisoned millions of people where are the photos?
Do you realize how much physical space that many people takes up in addition to supplying them?
Yeah tiananmen is such a meme at this point. You can tell when people base their entire politics on memes and don't bother reading and searching on their own. Tiananmen is an issue they won't step mentioning.
I think the other comment on this thread addressed it pretty well: https://hexbear.net/comment/4003110
I'm pretty skeptical about taking political positions from memes, and when I've done my own research on this, I failed to find valid reasons that this issue should get the attention that the Internet gives it. There are many other issues that are worth my attention. This one isn't.
Plenty of sources provided in there (ny times, reuters, etc), but if you were the kind to examine evidence, you wouldn't be here anyways.
I love how you ignored everything in the article except what could possibly agree with your viewpoint. On your first quote, the link they cite does not exist anymore. In the video you linked, I hear gunshots but don't see people running away from them. As someone from a country that saw unrest and shooting at protests, I can tell you that people immediately start running when they're shot at, emptying the area. Not continue to March nonchalantly.
In the end, I want to conclude with saying that I didn't deny that anyone died (although the comment I linked does seem to imply that. My apologies for not clarifying, as I was only using them to back up my opinion). What I said in the original comment is that it is not an issue worth my attention. I've seen and read about so many government rerpression, and this is far from being in the top 10. It's an unnecessarily magnified issue.
A massacre of that scale isn't a meme, you fucking nutjob.
Not even going to click on that, the domain tells me everything I need to know considering the topic we talk about!
I mean, it's a variety of sourced quotes from respected journalists who were there. You probably should read them all, if only so you can point out to the Hexbears where they mention all the people who died in the area around the Square. The sources mostly say "no one got gunned down literally in the Square."
In any case, it's fucking weird to obsess over it. It's like trying to give Biden crap about the Kent State Massacre while he's rounding up all the Mormons.
Plenty of evidence cited there from multiple sources. You don't have to open it, but the evidence is there shall you question it.
Abother user made a very good comment about this under my post, might be worth checking out!
I agree with that commenter. I do not claim that "nothing happened". I said this in my earlier comments, that I just don't think it's a problem worth my attention.
Sounds like a full blown insurrection.
I knew this was going to be the only one people tried to deny in this thread, but I didn't figure it would be OP
The Canadian government about the canadian indian residential school system
The Iran government about Salman Rushdie
The Mexican government about Ayotzinapas 43
The British government about their museums
The German government about their car manufacturers.
The Indian government about Aasif Sultan
The Russian government about how much the war in Ukraine should have lasted.
And many more...
Do let me know btw if you know of anymore of this.
Edit:
Aded russia
To be fair, Germans largely don't deny what happened. Being a holocaust denier can even get you into prison. IHMO that is how you should handle such matters.
Meanwhile, denying other genocides gets you a mod spot on lemmy.ml apparently
Yes i know but i couldnt come up with a simmilar example about them. If you know of a better one about Germany do let me know and ill change it. Im being frendly about this btw, sorry if i sound condesending, thats not my intention.
Don’t ask the German government about smog control in diesel cars?
This sounds good, gonna use it.
Should probably be a german company instead of it‘s government
Never ask them where VW produces cars!
Maybe the point is that not all countries are equally bad and belong on the list
Boy, the museums are really just the very tip of the iceberg for the Brits.
A list about things to not ask them for would be huge.
Never forget about the vicious emu war in Australia either, our shameful defeat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
Wales added another shameful australian defeat about 5 hours ago
How a person reacts to being asked about the version of these things most close to them is telling. If they get defensive and deny the event happened, I would hesitate to trust their opinion on other things. Clearly that person bases their opinions on what they want to be true rather than reality. That's the kind of person whose ideology would likely lead to another event to be ashamed of. If, on the other hand, they admit it was a horrible thing and agree that people should be educated on it and that steps should be taken to prevent it from ever happening again, then I'm more likely to take their opinion seriously and believe that they can be part of the conversations we need to happen to create a better world.
Bruh I want the CIA to do more coups in latin america. Shits based af
Yeah fr bruh that shit be bussin 💯💯
Don't forget Unit 731 for the imperial Japanese as well.
That shit is vomit inducing, yet no one knows about it
Cursed be my curiosity! I found the Wikipedia article about Unit 731. Not fun at all. 😕
Don't ask the UK anything about their troubling history with black people or slavery unless it's to mention that they were one of the first countries to stop making black people property. They get really mad if you mention anything but that.
FTFY: Don't ask the UK anything about their troubling history
with black peopleUK history with anyone else is better not to be talked about
UK(and friends) drew a lot of very questionable lines on a lot of maps.
Do we fuck
The Russians about Central Asian colonialism.
And siberian
And Alaskan
Was about to comment "the germans about ww2" but then remembered that we are quite open about that time. Wouldn't have made much sense either as there would be no use in evem trying to hide it
"Germany about colonialism" would be a better fit.
Also the german sentiment about WW2 is something that survivors for ever, students in the 60s/70s and antifascists right now fought for / are fighting for. Considering we have parts of the country that vote 30%+ for members of a nazi party the sentiment could shift really fast and atleast from my perspective considerably shifted already
"Denazification" would be another solid choice. For example, the post-war career of Hans Martin Schleyer
Colonialism is not a controversial topic and covered in school books
Thats not really my standard. I would like Germany to actually do stuff like returning stolen cultural goods and paying reperations instead of dodging responsibilty
i think you are wrong here. had colonialism in school...you can talk to ppl about it.
That's why it's so abhorrent that voices from the right but not only from the right get louder, that demand an end to the relatively good remembrance culture here in Germany. I hate the: "it was so long ago, it wasn't us" talking points. It's the first step towards forgetting, historic revisionism and possibly repeating the things that were done.
Well, we can add French and Brits about Munich agreement.
The Australians: About the indigenous Tasmanians
The Australians: About First Nations.
we are going to be a fucking embarrassment next month...
Ugh, yeah, not excited. Especially since I have to be in the city for something a week beforehand. So those cookers are going to be out and loud.
I am already getting ready for the abuse as someone who will be handing out pamphlets.
Yo my condolences about that! That's never okay! I hope you drink water and take breaks ✌🏻 your mental health is important too!
In Thailand:
The creator of this meme: proper contrast
Don't ask the French (Police) what happened in 17 October 1961
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_massacre_of_1961
TIL !
Russia about Balkars, Crimean Tatars, Chechens, Ingush, Karachays, Kalmyks, Koreans or Meskhetian Turks
We should make this list longer
At first I thought you meant perform events that would add to the list.
And fix it so it makes sense...like putting never ask as the image title so the other entries ACTUALLY make sense
Man, women really don't like to be asked about their age don't they?
The US Walk of Shame was much worse than the Coups
Feel free to ask. Switzerland answered: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergier_commission
I wasn't aware of the creation of this organization. Thank you for educating me.
Not to be pedantic about a meme but I would consider the US repeatedly detonating nuclear weapons on the Marshall Islands and then doing jack shit to clean up the mess to be worse than any coup.
67 of them to be exact. 70 years later, the Marshallese are still the ones paying the price of that incredibly bad decision.
It’s just weird that nuclear bombs came to your mind, but somehow the nuclear annihilation of two civilian cities was less salient to you than uninhabited islands.
"MEN OTEMJEJ REJ ILO BEIN ANIJ" — "ALL IS IN THE HANDS OF GOD" — were the words uttered by Juda, leader of the Bikinians, to Commodore Wyatt when asked to exile his own people for the "good of mankind". It is said that Juda's words were intended to imply, "It would literally take divine intervention for me to agree to this.". Nevertheless, the Bikinians would be taken from their homes, and as the ships sailed away, the Bikinians got to watch their many-generations' houses and boats get burned down by the American soldiers. Many of the Bikinians wouldn't eat after witnessing that, and they would live in poverty in their new homes.
It's no wonder, then, that the Bikinian flag looks like a desecrated American flag.
This isn't to say that Bikini was a more inhumane act than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hearing any recollection by survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or seeing any of the artwork that they created to process their experiences, makes that much obvious. But you hear about Hiroshima and Nagasaki: it has a place in the popular imagination, even if it is a heavily sanitized version that portrays the annihilation as "necessary".
In contrast, when's the last time you met someone who knew of "Bikini" as anything other than swimwear?
Not sure as it seldom comes up in conversation, but I knew.
I don't live in the US, but I'll try to ask around about it anyways. It doesn't really come up in real-life conversations for me either.
Fair that the cities were worse, but the islands were not uninhabited. The people there were evacuated (they were told temporarily) and the place they were evacuated to was still within the fallout zone. A lot of people died pretty much immediately and they're still dealing with increased cancer and birth defects today.
This was when these weapons were fairly new, and what little information we had about them was not given to the people of these people before they were pressured into allowing their islands to be testing grounds.
The two uses of nuclear weapons in Japan were horrible. It's been long debated whether or not that choice vs. the invasion planned was the better of two. I won't get into that.
What is more horrible is that instead of staying shocked at the potential of nuclear war, humans in every nation that could tried to make more and bigger ones...for defense, of course. And the islands weren't originally uninhabited, that's a nice story of forced relocation for the humans. The wildlife, not so much. That was the point of the post, the history of nuclear arms post-Japan is far worse than the first two bombs used.
The Canadian Government about Residential Schools
Canada, about residential schools, WW2 Japanese internment camps and missing and murdered indigenous women and children
Most of us are nice, but our government has gotta get it together to address a lot of stuff still.
It's almost like every government commits atrocities at some point or another.
The more important part is lack of education about these topics or an effort to heal those harmed by it.
And never ask a belgian about congo
We did horrible things there for sure.
This post is about denialism/minimalisation. Most Belgians admit how fucked up the treatment of the Congolese people was.
Some of us blame it on our king at that time, since those colonies were technically his "property".
But it definitely is a Belgian atrocity in which we all played parts.
That escalated quickly.
Every one of those countries has an endless list of atrocities, many of which are worse than the ones listed and many of which are going on today.
it was like this when I got here. thanks a lot ancestors
I'll add one more:
Don't ask Pakistanis about Dhaka massacre.
Sri lankan government about -how they won civil war -black July -jvp riots -easter attacks
IAmA Swiss person AMA
Nazi gold??
Argentina took the nazi soldier, US took the nazi scientists, of course we took the nazi gold ! After all, Switzerland is a dwarf confederation.
Yes. About 200 million USD worth. Trading with the fascists is a stain that will remain on our history for a long time.
At least the Swiss never gave the nazis back their stolen gold.
It sure will, considering it's still ongoing - your country just replaced Nazi gold with Russian gold.
Ackshully all gold trade with Russia was stopped the second they launched their full scale invasion of Ukraine. We're implementing the same sanctions as the EU.
That's a nice stereotype and fantasy. But the reality is very différent. Here is the beginning of an answer :
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/19/find-out-where-russia-wealth-is-outside-its-borders.html
No no no.... They just decided to restrike all their Swiss francs for no good reason whatsoever... Just for fun. Totally normal... Despite the expense.
How many tooth filings and wedding rings does it take to make 20 francs?
I read Nazi gold as Nazi god and was so damn confused
Best not ask about that either.
Look at their elbows
OP, your better off selecting one of Chinas south east asia conquests over Square.
The Wako Siege is a good one about the US too..
Literally not even top 100 of US government massacres.
I mean, it was an egregious show of force but I'd hardly put it anywhere near the top.
I'd argue Ruby Ridge was a lot worse
You mean the ones where a bunch of crazy people used children as human shields and then let them burn to death over their paranoid bullshit?
"Let them burn to death" is a really bootlick-y way to phrase "were burned alive when the FBI launched illegal incendiary tear gas cannisters into a building they knew had children inside."
Is it paranoia if you're right?
good way to ruin a dinner party. with all those people.
Okay, my next meme will be non-political just for you
6 out of 7 ain’t bad.
Honestly, I read the above article a few months ago, and I think it is a genuinely good article that I would recommend others read. It was written nine years after Tiananmen by Jay Mathews of the Washington Post, who was in Beijing during the protests; and the Columbia Journalism Review is a respected publication written by and for professional journalists. So the article is basically just trying to disspell the dumbing down and memeifying and misremembering and making-into-propaganda that happened with Tiananmen, and which honestly tends to happen with any major loss of life. No conspiracy theories, no denialism or claiming that "they had it coming", just dispelling misconceptions. It's good stuff.
I can't speak for Davel's other comment citing Prolewiki, though — I'm pretty skeptical to any website that tries to be Wikipedia but for X ideology.
In any case, this "butthurt report" feels pretty unfair, although I honestly did kinda roll my eyes at how Davel's comment said "6 out of 7 ain't bad", that was kinda cringe... But basically, what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't fault someone for commenting under a "9/11 NEVER FORGET" post about the extent to which mismanagement and confusion contributed to the death toll of that, and likewise I wouldn't fault someone for commenting under a Tiananmen Square post with more nuance about that event.
It’s not unreasonable to have skepticism of ProleWiki.
You might think Wikipedia lacks ideology or bias, but in my opinion it tends to have a Global North/Atlanticist bias. This is probably because of the place of its birth and the people who created it, like American libertarian Jimmy Wales, and the people who have managed it, like Katherine Maher, who has worked for National Democratic Institute and the Atlantic Council, and currently works for the U.S. State Dept.
And obviously the English language Wikipedia is generally going to have an anglo-Atlanticist point of view, as virtually all L1 English speakers and
mostmany L2 English speakers do.Honestly, I absolutely already believe that Wikipedia can be highly biased in those ways. The problem is really just with the liberal shaitan who whispers kapitalist propaganda into my ears. I should know better.
My fellow American, no u.
1989 Tian'anmen Square riots