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Why doesn't China put pressure on Israel

Despite my best efforts, I can't stop coming across horrific stories and images from Palestine. I won't repeat them here because you all know. At the same time I've heard so much inspirational stuff about how the USSR, despite being in a constant fight for their existence, still managed to help the global South in various ways, like aiding Cuba for example.

I understand that China is trying not to repeat the mistakes of the USSR by taking a less principled, more pragmatic approach, but if socialism means anything, surely it at the very least means opposing genocide? I just don't see why a country as powerful as China wouldn't just draw the line here.

Sorry if this is more of a rant than anything else, I'm just sick of seeing this shit, and literally the only entity on the planet that isn't run by demons and is powerful enough to help, refuses to do so. Even just sanctions would make a massive difference.

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11 replies

china has demonstrated that its strategy is to avoid direct confrontation at all costs—even when doing so works against its own interests, as in latin america, where newly u.s./israeli-installed leaders are all but certain to reverse decades of belt and road initiative gains once the contracts expire.

history offers plenty of evidence that hegemonic rivals are invariably destroyed, and that the only force capable of destroying an empire is its own people. the implication is that china's task is to survive as best it can while provoking the bear as little as possible, allowing it to slowly weaken and starve itself in the meantime.

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I see no justification for cooperating, even on military tech, with the genociders.

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I'd love to see that, but I suppose they don't want any more of Mordor's gaze turning on them until the scale of world politics finally starts turning to socialism and they can pull off stuff like that without putting everything at risk

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Palestinians will cease to exist, and China will continue with its pragmatic policy.

It’s funny to point out moral stances. Human beings are moral - it comes with being social. And the best moral principles condemn those who shamelessly avoid standing up against genocide even though they have the means to do so.

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Every action is material. Therefore every action fits within a causal framework. China speaking against Israel is a step up the escalation ladder. Once it happens, the West can respond, and they will, and it won't be a deescalation. If they escalate, then China's response changes the dynamics again. There are people employed by the CPC who spend their entire career thinking through the consequences here.

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lemmy.ml

China has renounced to socialism since Deng Xiao Ping. [...] But they aren’t even trying to be socialist for now (and since decades).

No. This is entirely untrue.

To understand this issue, one must first clarify the distinction between socialism and communism. Socialism is the transitional stage between capitalism and communism. During this phase, the working class has seized state power and begun guiding the economy toward its next logical form. Communism, by contrast, is the ultimate goal, at this stage, through collectivization and proletarianization, class distinctions are completely eliminated, and the state (having lost its reason for existence) gradually withers away.

Here, we must define the nature of the state. The state is an instrument of class rule, a specific structure within the government through which the ruling class implements its will. Consequently, when class distinctions are abolished, the state’s reason for existence vanishes. Rendered purposeless, it naturally proceeds toward dissolution.

During the transitional phase, the key lies in controlling the "commanding heights" of the economy. These primarily encompass finance, transportation, heavy industry, and the sectors driving macro-level development. By firmly controlling these commanding heights, the ruling class of society can steer the direction of economic development, such as by directing the overall economic trajectory through the provision or withholding of resources such as capital and infrastructure.

Retaining a secondary market economy for developing industries has been the orthodox view of early socialist development since the time of Marx. Marxism is not a philosophy of moralizing. Its stance on private property is not rooted in the belief that such property is morally evil or bad, but rather Marxism is a branch of scientific inquiry that employs evidence and material analysis to objectively examine the evolution of human society, construct models, and use those models to predict future societal trajectories.

The Marxist approach to private property stems from Marx’s analysis: the material basis of private property lies in the decentralization of production, however, as production processes grow increasingly complex, markets exhibit a natural tendency toward the concentration of production. Marx termed this concentration of production "socialization."

Centralized production rests on a different foundation than decentralized production. When centralized production is combined with private ownership, social stability diminishes, as this arrangement allows a tiny minority to exercise precise control over every aspect of society. As Lenin pointed out in Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism:

Competition becomes transformed into monopoly. The result is immense progress in the socialisation of production. In particular, the process of technical invention and improvement becomes socialised.

This is something quite different from the old free competition between manufacturers, scattered and out of touch with one another, and producing for an unknown market. Concentration has reached the point at which it is possible to make an approximate estimate of all sources of raw materials (for example, the iron ore deposits) of a country and even, as we shall see, of several countries, or of the whole world. Not only are such estimates made, but these sources are captured by gigantic monopolist associations. An approximate estimate of the capacity of markets is also made, and the associations "divide" them up amongst themselves by agreement. Skilled labour is monopolised, the best engineers are engaged; the means of transport are captured—railways in America, shipping companies in Europe and America. Capitalism in its imperialist stage leads directly to the most comprehensive socialisation of production; it, so to speak, drags the capitalists, against their will and consciousness, into some sort of a new social order, a transitional one from complete free competition to complete socialisation.

Production becomes social, but appropriation remains private. The social means of production remain the private property of a few. The general framework of formally recognised free competition remains, and the yoke of a few monopolists on the rest of the population becomes a hundred times heavier, more burdensome and intolerable.

Marx predicted that as the scale of enterprises expanded, this social instability would grow, eventually becoming so acute that society could not move forward without resolving the contradiction. Given that the socialization of production is the inevitable result of the immense scale necessitated by complex production technologies, Marx did not believe that large enterprises (especially those that had grown by genuinely producing high-quality goods) could simply be broken up without destroying their technical foundations. Therefore, the structure of ownership surrounding them had to be changed, they had to be transformed from private property into public property. A moralistic analysis might argue that private property is inherently evil and should therefore be outlawed entirely. Such a mindset leads to the view that socialism is merely a matter of passing a law declaring all private property illegal, and that any nation failing to do so is an evil traitor betraying true socialism.

However, Marx’s analysis contains no moral condemnation of private property, rather the expropriation of industry is proposed for a very specific purpose: to resolve the contradiction between the socialization of production and the privatization of appropriation. Consequently, there is a necessary precondition for expropriation: the industry in question must have already achieved a sufficient level of socialization. If the state were to take over an economic sector dominated by small-scale proprietors (where production has not yet been socialized and operations are not yet conducted on a national scale) it would effectively be assuming control of a sector that objectively and materially lacks the infrastructure and technology required for nationwide operation. This would introduce a contradiction between socialized appropriation and private production. A moralistic stance ultimately leads to the pursuit of policies that run counter to Marxist analysis and are doomed to failure. Indeed, Lenin noted in The Tax in Kind that nationalizing small producers would amount to economic suicide for the party attempting it, in "Left-Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder, he also emphasized the necessity of learning to coexist with small producers. In The Communist Manifesto, Marx explicitly stated that it is impossible to nationalize all small producers overnight; instead, the largest enterprises must be nationalized first to foster rapid economic growth, thereby encouraging the rise of national giants and allowing for the gradual expansion of expropriation over a long period.

The Marxist vision of a classless society is not one where private enterprise is outlawed and punishable by law. Rather, it is a society where state-owned enterprises are so technologically advanced and efficient that any attempt to launch a private business would result in a total lack of competitiveness and inevitable bankruptcy. What prevents you from starting a private business is not the law, but the material conditions of the real world.

What the Soviet Union implemented was a wartime economy designed to prepare for the war against Germany. This was not the path to socialism generally envisioned by Marxists, but largely a creation of Stalin to deal with the material reality of the approachingwar in Europe, hence its designation in Chinese literature as the "Stalin Model." It was essentially a revision of classical Marxism; while many emulated it due to its apparent short-term effectiveness, that success held true only when the economy was heavily concentrated on heavy industry.

When the time came to shift toward light industry, they encountered the very contradiction predicted by classical Marxism: the state simply lacked the material infrastructure to meet all light-industrial needs on a national scale. Naturally, black markets run by small producers emerged to fill this void. However, due to Soviet legal constraints, the state was compelled to constantly suppress these small producers who had spontaneously stepped in to address the system's shortcomings. This once again confirms Lenin’s warning that time should not be wasted attempting to suppress small-scale producers who emerge spontaneously due to the inherent economic inefficiency of the system.

However, this situation fostered widespread corruption. Because their economic activities were fundamentally incompatible with the large-scale, nationalized production of all goods, the re-emergence of small-scale producers was inevitable forced to operate illegally, they became part of the black market, an unregulated secondary economic sector that, already operating outside the law, would leverage its influence to try to undermine the Soviet government.

In summary, China is undoubtedly a socialist country, and its development path aligns with the fundamental principles of Marxist historical materialism. Retaining secondary market-economy elements does not constitute a departure from socialism; rather, it is an orthodox and necessary means (as identified by Marx and Lenin) of developing the economy during a stage when productive forces have not yet been fully socialized. By firmly controlling key economic sectors such as finance and heavy industry, the state ensures that market mechanisms consistently serve the overarching objective of the transition to socialism. True socialism lies not in forcibly eliminating private enterprises through moralistic legislation, but in ultimately and historically transcending private ownership by developing the highly advanced material conditions of public ownership.

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lemmy.ml

The achievements you mentioned regarding basic healthcare, literacy, and gender equality under Chairman Mao are true. The high degree of collectivization played a crucial role in that specific historical period. It successfully concentrated national resources, established an independent and complete heavy industrial system and a solid foundation for the national economy, which laid the indispensable material foundation for later large-scale poverty alleviation and modernization.

Your theoretical flaw lies in idolizing this specific form of welfare distribution in the early stage, regarding it as the eternal standard of socialism, while ignoring the objective laws of social development. You haven't understood it from the perspective of the material limitations of the entire system.

As I pointed out earlier, when economic development requires a shift from heavy industry to light industry and the production of complex consumer goods, the state apparatus objectively cannot handle all micro-level production needs. If, as the Gang of Four attempted to reinforce, the early, rigidly maintained model of comprehensive collectivization continued, suppressing spontaneous small-scale production, it would inevitably lead to economic stagnation and disaster, as the Soviet Union's lessons have demonstrated.

When market mechanisms are introduced(as we seem to agree was necessary during this later period), and the mode of production shifts from full collectivization to a model guided by the proletariat through control of the commanding heights, the distribution system must inevitably change to adapt to the new mode of production. This is because distribution relations are essentially determined by production relations. Under conditions of commodity exchange and multiple forms of ownership, continuing to maintain the past single egalitarian distribution is detached from its material basis and will only lead to contradictios. Adjusting the distribution method is precisely to allow distribution relations to readjust to the developing productive forces.

Your belief that China no longer cares for vulnerable groups is completely untrue. China still provides a vast safety net through a continuously improving social security system. Taking rural residents as an example, the right to homestead and land under collective ownership constitute the most basic guarantee of survival, ensuring that farmers always have a way out and a place to live, a systemic right that homeless people deprived of their land under capitalist private ownership cannot enjoy. At the same time, the state has established a pension system covering both urban and rural areas, as well as a social, medical, and unemployment insurance system. Although the household registration system has shortcomings in managing the floating population that require reform, its core structure still mandates that local governments provide basic safety nets for residents within their jurisdictions. China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of absolute poverty through systematic practice. The material foundation, financial scale, and coverage of this social security system far surpass the egalitarian distribution established in the early stages based on equality of poverty.

Socialism is not a static model frozen in the past. Only when productive forces are highly developed can the comprehensive and high-quality social security you aspire to transform from a fragile ideal into a solid material reality.

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lemmy.ml

Your entire reply perfectly demonstrates what it means to use moral indignation to mask theoretical incompetence. The more you elaborate, the more you expose that you're not analyzing China's economic foundation and international relations at all, but rather using your utopian fantasies to tailor reality. You treat every developing contradiction as evidence for conviction, yet you never analyze the material roots of these contradictions.

You claim China is imperialist, yet you haven't even grasped the scientific definition Lenin built upon from Hobson and others in Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism. Lenin pointed out the decisive significance of monopolies, the formation of financial capital, capital export, and the great powers' partitioning of the world. This is a rigorous political and economic structure, not a moral label you can arbitrarily slap on participation in international trade or the pursuit of national interests. Which aspect of China's overseas investments, ownership structure, and the distribution of surplus value conforms to the characteristics of financial monopoly capital extracting superprofits from peripheral countries through political hegemony? If you cannot prove China is imperialist based on capital control and exploitation mechanisms, then stop using this term as an emotional outburst. More importantly, discussing diplomacy in isolation from the domestic economic foundation is absurd. China's massive state-owned economy, state-led financial system, and strategic planning capabilities ensure that private capital must submit to the state's development will, making it impossible for a financial oligarchic dictatorship to form independently above the state.

Your ramblings on welfare issues are even more astonishing. By the end of 2025, China's basic medical insurance covered over 1.33 billion people, basic pension insurance covered over 1.08 billion people, and long-term care insurance covered over 320 million people. This is a massive state machine operating with trillions of yuan in public funds. How can you close your eyes and say that China has no welfare? You have committed a classic metaphysical error. The work unit system and commune welfare of the earlier era were based on system of production and the urban-rural dual structure of the time. As the economy transforms into a highly complex, urbanized, and multi-ownership economy, the distribution and security system must inevitably be restructured. You romanticize past forms of security while ignoring their material limitations; you refuse to acknowledge today's modern social security system covering over one billion people simply because it does not conform to your stereotypical view of socialism. Equating the historical evolution of welfare systems with abandoning the people is utter idealism.

Regarding women's liberation, you again substitute appearance for essence. The Chinese revolution, through marriage laws, widespread education, and the promotion of women's participation in large-scale social production, fundamentally destroyed the material foundation of the feudal patriarchal system. By the end of 2024, China had 320 million employed women, accounting for 43.4% of the total employed population. This is a real transfer of material power. You attempt to use certain conservative tendencies in contemporary policies to obliterate the historic leap of hundreds of millions of women into large-scale social production. Marxism holds that the prerequisite for women's liberation is a return to public labor. China continues to achieve this.

As for the conspiracy theory that China supports the European right wing, it is utterly absurd. The rise of the European right wing is an inevitable product of intensified internal class contradictions, the bankruptcy of social democracy, and the decline of working-class organization. You fail to analyze the corruption of the ruling class in Europe itself, instead shifting the blame to China, which adheres to the principle of non-interference in internal affairs. This scapegoating behavior precisely demonstrates the cowardice and theoretical bankruptcy of your Western left in the face of its own political failures.

On the African issue, your parasitic narrative is completely detached from material reality. Imperialism is characterized by exploitation and dependence, while China's actions in Africa involve the transfer of productive forces. Data from September 2026 shows that China is building modern vocational schools in Côte d'Ivoire and other locations, establishing 38 Luban workshops in 32 countries, and providing industrial robot and automation training to over 30,000 students and 160,000 technicians. In 2024, China also forgave 23 interest-free loans due to 17 African countries. China is helping host countries build independent industrial capacity, not destroying their economic sovereignty through structural adjustments like the IMF has done. Ignoring these substantial technology transfers and debt relief, and forcibly applying the template of neo-colonialism, only shows that your understanding is still stuck in the Western propaganda pamphlets of the Cold War era.

You say China stands idly by regarding Palestine, which exposes your extreme ignorance of the material basis of geopolitics. In December 2025, China announced $100 million in humanitarian aid to Palestine. More importantly, despite US sanctions, China continued to purchase Iranian oil and, through complex trade settlement mechanisms and dual-use technology exports, provided Iran with a vital economic lifeline. Even reports from the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission and Reuters acknowledged that Chinese trade underpinned Iran's ability to circumvent sanctions. Iran is the core backbone of the axis of resistance. By maintaining Iran's industrial and financial operations, China provided solid material internationalist support. This is far more effective than empty slogans shouted in the streets.

On the Nepal issue, you have used the Maoist label as a blank check to solicit sponsorship from the Chinese Communist Party. The Chinese Communist Party has its own strategic assessments and internationalist principles and has no obligation to fund every armed group operating under the Maoist banner. The fact is, China maintains close inter-party exchanges with the legitimate, mainstream Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist center). As for those ultra factions that are hostile to China and often obsessed with Gonzalo esque dogma, they treat China as an enemy of revisionism and actively sever their connection with objective reality. International solidarity is not unprincipled charity. Their isolation due to their dogmatism and alienation from the masses is entirely their own fault.

Your biggest theoretical flaw lies in treating socialism as a static policy list. Capitalist countries can also provide welfare, and the existence of private enterprises does not equate to a capitalist restoration. To judge the nature of a country, one must look at its fundamental class relations: Who controls the strategic means of production? How does the state manage capital? How is social surplus distributed? China's constitution and economic foundation clearly stipulate the dominant position of public ownership and the leading role of the state-owned economy; the state possesses the absolute ability to subordinate private capital to macroeconomic development goals.

If you insist on proving that China has abandoned socialism, then present a materialist analysis: prove that China's strategic lifeline has escaped state control, prove that private financial oligarchs have usurped state power, and prove that China's economic structure is systematically reproducing the capitalist ruling class. If you can't produce this material evidence, then put away your condescending moral judgment. No investigation, no right to speak; your arrogance cannot conceal your ignorance.

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Why doesn't China put pressure on Israel | Spyke