If the Nidal Hasan Execution Is Livestreamed, We Are a Barbaric Nation
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208 replies
Lol, we have been since the settlers landed.
Many of us want to be better.
Try harder, thoughts and prayers won't cut it, you're way past the no-return point.
We’ve been making it better for the last 250 years. There have been setbacks and regressions, but the overall arch has been progress. If we make it through this backslide we can still continue improving.
Not enough to do anything about it though, it seems.
I wish I knew how and what to do. Born into a society with unions rapidly declining in the 80s and 90s. That is where a lot of front end action starts to take place, and the U.S. doesn't have nearly the same union presence it did 40-50 years ago. It's a 2 party system, and both parties suck. The status quo here has been dismantling people's collective ability to organize, for generations at this point. Whether or not anyone will admit it, they are scared and subjected to enough propaganda on a daily basis to be coerced into being anti-union.
The brick by brick wall built between citizens and their own well being is astonishing. 9/11 was middle school for me so a lot of the bricks were observed in my lifetime.
The most well organized militias happen to be aligned with the current administration, which is baffling for any number of reasons, but not trying to deep dive that.
I think it would take a large group of our politicians to admit we got way off track, issue formal aplogies to friends, neighbors, and allies. Then request formal 3rd party help. At this point, short of that happening I truly do believe the US will implode on itself within the next 50 years.
Executive action needs to be removed or reworked entirely. Term limits across all governing bodies, Supreme Court, senate, house, all of them need an expiration date and term limits. For the judicial I would go as far as to say they are selected at random from pools of high level judges. What we have now is just a collective of leeches.
I hear what you say, growing up in similar environments. Humans have always been oppressed by other humans when they're allowed to. The only reason we ever had freedom is because we bled and fought for it. America will need to bleed for this to be solved. Trump is ready to be violent and oppressive. The people need to be that back, but in much greater numbers to match and overwhelm.
What you say can be avoided, but it needs millions marching with guillotines to get back on track and avoid. There will be no peaceful transfer of power, and I think we can all see that.
I wish it were different. I truly do.
I'm trying man. I vote, I volunteer, I protest, I work my ass off to educate myself and others around me. I'm careful about how I spend my time, attention and money and support people and causes I see as useful. I train, practice and prepare for if and when things get violent. I work with others in my community to make myself and those around me more resilient. I see hateful signs and stickers and I take them down and actively confront hateful dipshits around me.
So what do you suggest I do more? And would you do that yourself?
In a just world that would be more than enough. Sadly Trump's America isn't just anymore. It's extreme. What it sounds like to me is you're preparing for war, while i Trump is actively waging war.
Would I do more than you are now? No. But I have much to lose and people who depend on me and I can't actively resist. Were I to find myself with inoperable cancer, or at my end, family deported etc, I'm not sure with anything to lose I could say I'd be inactive. That's what most surprises me about Americans now, is that there's so few people willing to go to the extremes when they have nothing to lose. It boggles my mind actually.
I see. So you are advocating that others do something you yourself aren't willing to do. That's kind of the problem, you aren't the only one who "has anything to lose". Everyone has something to lose and it's incredibly difficult to do what I think you're getting at. Yeah most people aren't doing even the bare fucking minimum but everyone from the outside looking is like "why aren't they picking up guns and just shooting?".
Well there's some very simple and some very complicated reasons for that. Most people aren't psychopaths or murderers until things are bad enough and they are affected directly and even then people have to get pushed pretty far.
I'm not American and I'm not visiting until I'm sure it's no longer fascist. America is not my responsibility. It's the responsibility of Americans, and I don't see anything responsible happening down south at all.
There must be millions of citizens affected by Trump policies now, and there's been two sad assassination attempts only. That's what I'm getting at. Where's the disgruntled ex military guy, or the no more Medicare guy? They're all absent. I'm not asking family men and women to get results.
Sorry but doing anything about it would be "barbaric" according to people like you.
Many of us are frankly better. Its par for the course these days for the entire nation to be judged by the behavior of its worst, and if challenged, people will say if we don’t like it we should be in the streets protesting violently. But it’s a lot of armchair quarterbacking IMO and I try not to let it bother me. We’re donating and volunteering to support a blue wave in the midterms. If this doesn’t impress Europeans on Lemmy I have no shits to give.
Oops
If any society from more than 60 years ago doesn't seem barbaric, it means society hasn't progressed and shit is fucked up.
Even oldschool public executions is tame compared to this though, because it'll be live streamed globally and recorded.
When you look at shit happening today and it's 1,000 times worse than a century ago, it's fucking noteworthy.
Stop acting like this shit isn't a huge deal and it's always been like this.
The Vietnam war was less than 60 years ago. Plus all of the wars in the middle east, our torture black sites, overthrowing democracies for profit, etc.
...
You think it's a clock and is only real after 60 years?
Progress is a constant thing. It's pushing a cart up hill. If youre not further up the hill every step, it's not progress.
60 years, 60 months, 60 days, 60 minutes...
The length of time doesn't matter, just that progress happens.
Every well adjusted person should have a shit ton of regrets, because they keep progressing as a human and find prior behavior unacceptable. That's the same for a nation.
Do you legitimately not understand that?
What is the progress tho? US has been genociding an entire people for the past 3 years. It is as fucked in the head as it ever was.
There hasn't been any...
From the early 90s to 2025 the neoliberals controlled the DNC. They kept moving right, so Republicans did the same to differentiate.
We finally have a non biased DNC again (Obama just ignored it, or wed have gotten in in 2009 and shit never would have gotten this bad)
That means a neoliberal won't win the next presidential primary, because they could never win a fair primary. It took Hillary hiding behind Bill's charisma to get them the DNC in the first place.
But all of that was orchestrated by the wealthy to stop progress. They just plan on generational timelines.
Gaza? The government has been enabling it, but acting like it's already America commiting a genocide, just means when/if our government crosses that line, people are numb to it.
That's a widely used propaganda technique, and trump himself does it all the time. Everytime he says "we may do that" is so some people get outraged early, and that prevents people from getting outraged at the same time.
Like, I fully understand your intent and that you think you're helping, but you're only helping the oligarchs when you blur lines like this.
Not to mention thats everything thats public information. You go behind the scenes and you’re begging to lose all hope and meaning.
I guarantee there will be all sorts of meme videos about it. Lots of AI videos, too.
But how will they feel smart then?
There's enough pedos in politics without bringing drake into this...
I think that there's a difference between being barbaric while trying to appear civilized and being barbaric and proud of it. Both are bad, the latter is worse.
If you can't see the difference, from an ethical standpoint, between livestreaming an execution and keeping it away from the eyes of the general population, you're a bit of a sociopath.
You are a barbaric nation, livestreamed or not. You still have the death penalty for starters, and every school shooting is met with thoughts and prayers and nothing else.
You've always been this way and it's taken a monster shining a torch on it to show you. And your plan is just to get rid of the monster, as if that makes it all OK again...
30% barbaric. 30% not barbaric. 40% undecided.
FTFY.
We just don't have the luxury of that argument, I'm afraid.. The problems here are systemic and exist within each of us to some degree.
Classic murica.
got a loicense for that opinion, mate?
Yeah, the U.S. sucks but people from the U.K. can shut the fuck up about it.
American here. People from everywhere and anywhere can say whatever they want about the US. If that makes you feel bad, you can log off and not read the comments.
I love a lot of things about this country, I work hard and am actively working towards trying to make the America around me less shitty. But the comments and criticisms on America and the people that live here and who is in power are valid. Don't like it, fine and you may fuck off and go do something productive.
Not the unprovoked bombing of a school?
Yeah but that was like over there. This is here. You know?
True! Alright so I'll roll coal with my rented and lifted F350 tonight!!! w00t w00t
You already are a barbarian nation for still having capital punishment in the first place.
This new development would just put you a few notches farther away from civilization.
And for torturing people. And for supporting genocide. And for bombing children. And for putting people in concentration camps...
Imprisoning Trump and his goons wont make a difference. Treason and mass murder need to be dealt with in a permanent way.
January 6th?
Minab school attack, Iran, killing 156 people including 120 children.
Federal immigration agents have shot at least 25 people, killing 9 (including US citizens Renee Good.
The 1985 bombing of a neighborhood in Philadelphia by police.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing
The 1968 Chicago police riot.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2018/aug/19/the-whole-world-is-watching-chicago-police-riot-vietnam-war-regan
Basically most of this.
You're a barbaric nation for many reasons already, this will just be another nail in the coffin.
I always thought their oath of allegiance, done every day in school, sounded so much like something kids in North Korea would be forced to do.
This is just another thing to add to the pile.
Lol the fact that you're even comparing them to a country that they literally genocided speaks to the effectiveness of American propaganda. Glad y'all eyes are starting to open up, but America has always been the evil country doing evil things lol.
I mean the majority of us are British decendant, who historically are not known for being kind to their neighbors lol
The worst of the Brits, if I remember the history of the first settlers correctly.
Sorry you already are
The fuck you mean "if"?!
Rest of the world's got news for you folks.
The people that I've unfortunately talked to that either support or don't condone it do not care that this is "barbaric". They condone violence, and they want more of it.
You cannot shame or reason with these people. American religious conservatism is a cancer and you cannot reason with or shame with a cancer.
You are a barbaric nation for not ending the death penalty
May as well put the brutality on display, will help people realise why it’s wrong
yes
no, fuck no, that's not how you fix that
Exactly this. We still have awful humans among us. And barring some kind of gene-editing/therapy, that won't change.
People used to take their families to lynchings. Vendors would sell food at the event. They'd put their kids up on their shoulders to get a better view. And they'd go for ice cream after. Just like they went to the movies or something.
The culture may be better (well, except for conservatives and their heroes like Hegseth and donnie), but humans are not any different from that time.
There are people that will absolutely love this and beg for more. Approximately 52% of Americans support the death penalty.
I don't think making a fun spectacle out of it will fix jack squat.
Beg for more is an understatement. The hunger that builds for cruelty cannot be overestimated. They get rabid for it.
On the other hand, showing such material could convert MAGA Republicans into eager guro enthusiasts. Surely that would cause some sort of "on sight" doctrine to be established for the Pubs.
And for not ending slavery, as the constitution clearly states that slavery is illegal, except when incarcerated.
We absolutely are. America isn't humane.
Hegseth should get life in prison. What an arrogant twat he is.
He's a traitor and there is a punishment for treason that is spelled out clearly so everyone knows. That's what he deserves.
No. Prison isn't for punishment. It's for corrections. You can't correct someone by punishment.
He's a sick man that needs to he separated by society and put in a faculty with the best therapy until he's able to return to society without harming others. Depending on how far gone he is, that could be years to life.
Hate to break it to you, but this has always been a barbaric nation that was founded on colonialism and genocide. Putting an execution behind closed doors does not change that.
After 3 years of full fledged US-backed livestreamed genocide it is quite astounding people are upset about an execution being livestreamed
Every nation is barbaric. Show me one that isn't.
Maybe we can stay on topic, big guy, we're shitting on America right now.
The people in power have nothing to gain from stopping it. The people who are NOT in power have everything to gain from stopping it- but the cowards choose not to.
While there are definitely vast amounts of cowards, do bare in mind that propaganda (i.e. turning on the tv in that country) and isolation (union-busting and other anti-organizational tactics) make average Joe feel like they can't change anything by themselves.
Which is true, bust most muricans don't realize they can achieve quite a bit if they organize.
Of course they'd have to care about their neighbors and get off their obese individualists asses first...
If? Fuck you. The US is definitely a barbaric nation. Don't try to give them an option for an out.
What's the out? The religious conservatives in this country are bloodthirsty and violent and will just embrace this accusation.
They'll see this accusation and go "good, we're not being barbaric enough! Barbarians are strong and might is right!" That is how these people think.
The out as in if this doesn't go through it implies that perhaps the US is a non barbaric nation by this wording.
We've been a barbaric nation for a while. It's just on full display now. This display of violence changes nothing.
Any people more afraid by not having a gun than by not having a doctor is immature.
The country was literally built on genocide and slavery. OP, Remove the "if" and replace the comma with a period.
We passed the “barbaric” marker a long time ago.
Yes, but this publication is conservative. When they're saying it's barbaric, it's bad.
the US has streamed several executions already. they just happened to be extrajudicial carried out by police/ICE
Those were streamed incidentally, not officially.
When police body cameras are always on and you execute someone, you're not streaming it "accidentally". You know you have a camera on your body while you murder someone and choose to do it anyway.
This is a really odd argument that I can't understand, there is a categorical difference between an official broadcast of a scheduled execution and the video from a police body camera being released following the police killing someone. I don't understand how you can say they are the same thing, whether the cop remembers in the moment they have a camera on is irrelevant. Capturing an incident as part of routine recording and then releasing that video after the fact is not at all like scheduling an execution and broadcasting it live for the world to watch.
The people doing the killing knows the cameras are on, watching their actions. And they go ahead and kill someone anyway.
Just because the US justice system hides tax payer paid public servants from concealing their lawfully required body cam footage is a US justice problem. But the cops know they're being recorded at all times and they'll kill an unarmed civilian anyway.
I am not following. From my perspective, the people doing the killing are in very different circumstances and the purpose of the cameras are completely different. The message being sent with an execution being conducted like this seems completely different than the message being sent when there is a release of bodycam footage showing police killing someone.
Police body cameras don't stream. It is a closed system.
Sure. But they definitely know they're being recorded when they execute someone.
With the absolute certainty that they won't get shown if it could hurt them. And even then they'll turn them off when they want to do something really bad.
I’ve been waiting 40 years now for that leftward swing.
Best we’ve done so far is Obama passing a heritage foundation free market based “healthcare” system.
Don't forget extending and building upon the Patriot Act!
I wonder how much of this is motivated by his name being Hasan lol like obviously there's more to it but they're going so hard on Piker rn that executing a dude named Hasan on live television feels particularly motivated.
Hasan Piker fans really need to make everything about him...
They want to label this as a traitous attack and normalize public (live streamed) executions for anyone they consider a traitor, which means against this administration.
It is very important for serious reasons, and not because a twitch streaming nepo baby who go his start interning for his uncle podcast named after people who committed the Armenian genocide, happens to have the same last name.
If you give a shit, stop watching streamers and actually learn about politics.
Not a fan, and his fans aren't the ones making everything about him right now.
I think its kinda disingenuous to act like it has nothing to do with it. These are the same people who feel the need to emphasize "Hussein" being Obama's middle name because racism.
Hasan is popular. His politics are growing in popularity with the public. The right wing is ginning up hate against him and people like him. His name being Hasan is quite important when you're enflaming the racists.
Ok which one of us is obsessed with Hasan?...and how is this relevant?
Again, I think you're mad at someone who isn't even here right now. Please stop assuming you know me. It kinda just seems like you're a terminally online leftie who hates Hasan or something. Go outside lol
He was active duty military that opened fire on other active duty military on a military base...
Not that the last name is common with a fucking streamer
"like obviously there's more to it"
Hey pal, 👆 that's me in my original comment beating you to the punch on this. You can intentionally miss the point all you want but you're just shadowboxing.
We get it, you hate Hasan. Very brave.
Anyone else ever notice how Piker and trump supporters sound alike after 3 replies?
Like, even your "his popular" excuse, substitute the names and I'd bet most people couldn't tell which person was being defended...
It's crazy so many people can't see the same fucking grift.
Like, you legitimately can't look at your last replies and see the similarities?
horseshoe theory is just a misunderstanding of wilhoits law, and once you start seeing that you start seeing it everywhere
People do grow and change. I'm a pretty old fart and Hasan Piker seems to me to be a generational talent. His knowledge of politics and political theory is pretty deep. Don't hate just because of his platform of choice. He's trying to bring class awareness and political education to the younger generation and doing a pretty good job of it.
So, just because he's a streamer and related to Cenk(he has no control over who his family is), it does not mean he isn't doing good and serious work.
It's almost as if you've never watched any of his youtube videos, which are edited for time and relevance.
No, he was the nepo nephew of The Young Turks founder...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide
A media organization literally named after people who overthrew their government to commit a genocide....
His uncle put him on air, then bankrolled him into the early days of twitch.
He is not grassroots, he did not got popular because of talent or political opinions.
He is an outrage machine and rather than complain about literal fascists running our country and supporting genocides worldwide, he uses his platform to make people not want to vote for the literal only option in our political system
At best he's a narcissist that just wants views, at worst he's intentionally trying to prevent progress.
Fucking think for yourself and stop repeating twitch streamers.
I guess I don't understand why the name Young Turks is supposed to be automatically disqualifying or something? Ana is Armenian herself. If that was so disqualifying, you'd think she would be noping out or calling for a name change?
So ad homs are a reason why he's not a generational talent? Are you a Zionist or something?
Yeah that's unhinged. He wants health care for all, a living wage at least, equal rights, an end to American war mongering, green energy, etc...
Trump also says he wants to help people...
If someone (correctly) pointed out he's just grifting, would you label that an "ad hom" and say that we have to take him at 100% sincerity?
Because that wouldn't make any logical sense. When someone shows you who they are repeatedly, no one else is going to be able to pull your head out of the sand.
Just please don't get manipulated into not voting in the Dem primaries, there's literally no reason not to it doesn't obligated you to vote in the general, but it stops neoliberals and actually helps progressives.
I vote in every election. Hasan consistently advocates for progressive policies and boosts awareness of progressive/democratic socialist candidates. So he walks the walk.
The Hasan hate is really wierd.
If it is not Livestreamed you are still a barbaric nation. Not doing anything against children being murdered in school shootings is far worse in my opinion.
The United States is turning into the very same countries we love to bomb for doing such things.
You want to know what a Christian Nation looks like? Well, here you go.
To be fair the veneer of a country that has been built on genocide (even if not entirely completed) and slavery hasn't been too thick to begin. I am not throwing stones though, coming from Austria. But at least here more people are aware that the own history hasn't been so glorious after all.
Thank you for being reasonable and understanding unlike many here.
Osama Bin Laden won.
The main goal of 9/11 was to destabilize the United States.
It worked too well.
We don't bomb countries for doing such things, or we'd be bombing Saudi Arabia and Israel. We give military support to countries that do such things, so long as the spice flows, and we bomb countries where the spice doesn't flow, even if they don't do those sorts of things.
You must not have been paying attention with what's going on in Iran the last 10 years up till now.
Iran is a country where the spice doesn't flow to us. We are bombing them, not for any human rights issues, but for their oil.
“Because we were founded on the genocide of indigenous people and enslaving others we kidnapped from their homes, we are a barbaric nation.”
It’s less punchy as a headline but more accurate.
Yes the US culture of barbarism goes right back to day one. Genocide, slavery, war after war after war. Anyone just picking up on this is a bit late to the party.
Executions should be public. Who benefits from it being done in secret? Why is State murder the only thing that doesn't benefit from transparency?
You all imagine the people who will whoop and cheer; I imagine the people who will recoil in horror. If we're barbaric, it's because we murder criminals, not because it's on Youtube.
100% agreed
I strongly doubt that though. I feel like a lot of people will cheer. And in any case this will desensitize people to violence; given how reactionary the US populace is, it's probably not a good thing overall
Every sufficiently large population will contain psychopaths that would cheer.
But the majority of the people in the US are not so far gone. It's at most only 30% on a bad day.
It's not all that long ago that people would bring their kids and have a picnic at lynchings.
The humans of today are no different from those humans. This will just mean that those types will call for even more blood.
The fuckheads in office raided a sitting Democratic rep's house for immigration papers from three fucking years ago! The brown shirts have thrown legal citizens in concentration camps, they've kidnapped people and have done so with zero consequences. They are going to sell tickets to EXECUTE someone on live tv (who I might add is in a wheelchair). We are far passed barbaric.
IF?!?!?!
If the Nidal Hasan Execution Is Livestreamed, 1 + 1 = 2
Lmao even JD Vance was like "ehhh I dunno we'll see."
It just means mask has slipped.
White phosphorus and cluster bombs are still used by the US.
Meanwhile the list of fuckery is so long it's hard to pick a starting point.
if
Well, that's a big if!
Too late, we already have a history of selling merchandise for public lynchings
If?
For Liberals, barbarism is when you publicly show what you are doing instead of doing it in secret.
The New Republic is a conservative publication.
Liberalism is the ideology of both Republicans and Democrats.
Superfluous conditional
I got some bad news for you.........
...
We've always been a barbaric nation. Please stop pretending that we haven't.
We're profiting off a genocide for 3 years, and threatening the biggest legal body that is investigating it.
Yeah, the US has been a barbaric nation for a while
The only countries actively committing genocide in 2025? USA and Israel. So why didn't this alone push America over the barbarity line? It seems to me that Iran and Afghanistan are ones who should be taking a moral audit of their public executions after seeing America emulate it. And isn't Israel supposed to start mass hangings of Palestinian hostages soon? Maybe won't be live but they certainly will be taped and disseminated.
But I get it, I mean if you choose a new Rubicon every week then you'll never have to actually confront Nazi Caesar will you?
I mean the article is just peak neoliberal obnoxious “alternative reality”
I think the author is a real case study of a classic “delusion liberal”.
his culture deliberately slaughters small children in schools, committing war crimes on a monthly basis, steals oil from the poor global south and forces millions of poor Caribbean people to live without any electricity.
And only when he peaks into the reality of his culture, the one that enabled 80 million adults to “elect” a pedo and rapist, only then the “delusional liberal” screams:
“ wHaT ArE We?! a bUnCh Of iArANiAnS”
That's the whole point of TNR, to draw moral lines past a bunch of horrible shit, thereby normalizing it and presenting it as acceptable, even as they appear to be critical. A perfect example of controlled opposition.
I think public executions is included in genocide. The US also did public executions in 2025
See ICE and bombings in the Caribbean.
Mate, you've been a barbaric nation since before it's existence. You still have legal slavery. That should say enough, but on top of that you've been waging wars for most of your existence, which consisted and still consists of horrific war crimes. Then there are all the other crimes against humanity being committed every single day within the US and abroad.
Thinking you're not barbaric if this isn't streamed is just insane ignorance of the highest level.
don't worry guys, it's really not as bad as you think. it's worse. you've been a barbaric nation since 1776.
*before
agreed, but I thought they probably weren't technically a nation then, at least as the US
Good point, mostly wanted to highlight that they colonized the "USA".
"Barbarian" is mostly used to describe the inferiority of a country or people that are outside of the western world. Used by western and white supremacist to otherize the victims of our own Imperialist interest. It's fitting that the word lives on today with the same use because the Roman empire did the same thing. The people throughout history that are called "Barbarians" are rarely the ones that live on to define their own society.
I'd say we are being significantly more exactly what we have always been. The primary difference is in the aesthetics. And maybe I'm too autistic to understand; but the state live streaming an execution is more about the message and purpose. Fascist are looking very very weak right now. They are trying to portray strength by doing this in a time they are losing popularity and power.
You can go look at the executions of countless innocent Palestinian children with the weapons we send to Israel. Look at the execution of the children in Iran our military triple tapped (attacked the same school 3x to ensure the first responders die as well).
Are you wrong to be upset about this live streamed execution? Fuck no. But, I think some self reflection is in order. We, as Americans, are upset with how this makes us look, and less about why it is bad. Our government has been posting the video executions of fisherman for months.
If anything, we hate this mostly because we want to go back to being able to ignore the executions. But, if the first one happens, before long, it will be as normalized as the bombings we have done on innocent people all over the world for decades.
The German tribes that the Romans invaded weren't peaceful indigenous communities living in harmony with the land.
They were barbarians that destroyed the forests and the nature. The romans too.
That's the type of pseudo history I'm talking about. Thanks. You are summarizing thousands of years, hundreds of tribes, and countless conflicts inside and out as "Barbarians".
The germani tribes were largely farming tribes for most of history. Like, this oversimplified definition is literally the main focus of the first paragraphs of the Wikipedia article. This grouping of "germani" and the false association of them all being historically associated with modern day Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples
You read a comment that I made that was primarily about how history is written, taught, and simplified; how words are used to otherize and simplify people of history. And then you thought "nah, my high school history class said they were all "barbarians"".
Come on mate.
I don't see how your point contradicts what I said.
They cut down the forests.
I take more issue with the slur "savages", because at least many indigenous in America lived in harmony with nature.
Are you still just repeating your high school history class knowledge? Yes, the Romans said that the "Barbarians" (which by this point was very muched used as a slur like savage is) were just destroying forest for no reason.
Like, just read some of the wiki I linked mate. You are doubling down on bad history you learned.
It would be difficult to find something non barbaric in the history of the US.
If a country is executing its own citizens, that country is already a barbaric nation.
They didn't show Saddam Husseins public execution in the U.S. , even on Faux news. It's as though the Trump administration thinks worse of this guy than Saddam Hussein. The further implications of this aren't fun to think about.
Let's be real. He doesn't care that this man is a killer. Only that he is arabic.
A few thoughts on this.
I'm strongly against capital punishment. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty who deserve to die and the world is better off without. But our criminal justice system, while good, has made too many mistakes. Plus, given all the appeals and whatnot, it's actually cheaper to keep someone in jail for life than to execute them.
The problem with our society is when it comes to violence, we live in a state of almost childlike innocence. The vast majority of Americans have NO exposure to real violence and death. The vast majority of Americans have never seen another human die, in real life or on video. The vast majority of Americans have never even seen a real dead body. We censor any death or gore on news, and call ourselves civilized.
Even our 'violent' movies and TV are nonsense- the bad guy gets shot, a squib goes off under his shirt, and he falls down. Meanwhile the hero is taking blow after blow that (in reality) would each cause life-altering injuries. It's almost cartoonish.
So with this innocent ignorance, we then debate things like war, gang violence, and capital punishment as abstract academic concepts, as we have no frame of reference to ground them in reality.
Personally I think more Americans should acquaint themselves with the reality of the world we inhabit. The reality is that human bodies are fragile as hell, it doesn't take a lot to seriously wreck one in all kinds of ways, and when that happens it's NOT funny or pretty.
So for that reason, I would like to see at least the recordings of executions be made public. If the American people are going to discuss a policy, they should see what they are actually discussing. I suspect one video of an electric chair execution would be enough to end capital punishment in the USA for good. But even still with firing squad, I think people should see the reality of turning a living human into a dead human.
With that all said- this is NOT the place to do that.
This is not about domestic policy. This is about international peacekeeping. To the Islamic extremists, this guy is a hero. Shoot him live on TV and you turn him into a martyr. The extremist people WANT to die in service of their cause. Death is not a feared consequence, it's the expected end of martyring themselves. You think someone who goes to shoot up a mall expects to live through to retirement? No, they understand that's the end, they just want to take out others at the same time.
This video would not 'strike fear in their hearts', it would be a recruitment tool! This is something anyone with even the most basic understanding of Islamic extremism understands. I don't understand why the so-called experts are ignoring it.
Exactly. Even going past the fucking barbarity of it, it reveals the sheer stupidity of Hegseth and the administration far more.
Did you know Trump in the last months of his first term executed more people than any president of the 20th century except for FDR? and for FDR 6 of them were Nazi saboteurs. And FDR had 3 full terms. In total FDR executed 16 people. Trump had 13 in barely 6 months.
After the Gregg decision (post-1963) the only federal executions were by George Bush junior and he only executed 3.
Basically this guy is the most murderous president we have ever had in the worst possible way ever. Even Hitler had some real beliefs beyond genocide and murder. Trump has none.
The thing that bugs me about Trump and the administration is how little planning and forethought seems to go into things of worldwide significance. Ready-Fire-Aim is a joke it should not be how the nation (formerly) leading the free world operates. And worse is the mindset it represents.
Our government employs a great many experts on Islamic extremism, and I can promise you that not one of them is too busy to meet with the Secretary of Defense.
And yet either these experts weren't consulted, or their advice was ignored. The announcement went out anyway. And now there's probably room fulls of experts all screaming that this will cause far more problems than it'll solve, so there's backpedaling.
So I ask, if I was Hegseth what would create this situation? And the most likely answer I come up with, like an awful lot of Trump decisions, is that I just assume everyone is either like me or like a stereotype and act accordingly. I don't need to study or consult because It's My Job To Make The Decision and I Made The Decision.
The result of that is decisions are made off the cuff, without consideration or forethought, which leads to problems that are both easily predicted and easily prevented.
Iran is another perfect example. We want to get rid of Iran, so we go in, fire a fuckton of guided missiles (which cost $1.5 million each, and apparently we have no way to replace them), blow up the leader and some buildings, then step back and do nothing to manage the resulting aftermath. The religious council naturally appoints the leader's son as new supreme leader, and whoops seems they still have a functional military and by deploying it to a tiny patch of water can grind worldwide trade to a fucking halt. Now they're organized again and they're pissed, and we're almost out of missiles so we don't want to start another war. So we're negotiating with the guy whose dad we just killed begging him to stop killing the global economy.
Did nobody consider this possibility ahead of time?
I'm NOT an expert on Iran. But from what little I learned on Wikipedia, I can tell you with near certainty that if you want to 'stop' Iran you have to kill or capture not just the supreme leader but the religious council who appoints him, and many high ranking members of the IRGC also. Do that and install a temporary puppet government with a promise of free elections in a year, or find whoever's the current 'heir to the throne and install them as Shah under the old governmental structure. Then leave enough forces behind to keep the remainder of IRGC loyalists from causing trouble. This requires more than missiles, it requires a bunch of 'wet work' (think spy movies / assassinations). It requires boots on the ground. It requires putting Americans in harm's way. Overall it will take years and cost $billions. But the result, if done correctly, could be the secularization of Iran- undoing our evils when we helped depose the Shah.
Shooting off a bunch of missiles and expecting the problem to go away doesn't make the problem go away.
To a large extent it has been like that since the start of the global war on terror (which they will never abandon. It will remain until some massive worldwide revolution happens (which it won't) that declares all anti-terrorism what they truly are: state repression of normal people, and then repeals them. All of them). The invasion of Afghanistan and the long-term implications and control of the country were not very well thought up. Then they chose to invade Iraq (which I should mention was a Neocon and Israeli plan since the late 90s and NOT the direct result of 9/11. The WMDs and connections to Al-Qaeda were just made up excuses) which also ended in a quagmire that they had NO IDEA how to resolve either. Based on the talk of the time, they also seemed to want to attack Iran back then, too. Looking at the situation, with both Afghanistan and Iraq occupied, you now had Iran surrounded on 3 sides. Afghanistan in the east, Iraq in the west, and the friendly gulf nations in the south. But the quagmire got in the way and organizing an invasion (and even in 2003 invading Iran would have been suicide) and instead the Taliban slowly and steadily rebuilt and the insurgency in Iraq got worse and worse and eventually resulted in the rise of ISIS and the Syrian civil war and other destabilizing effects in the Middle East.
This, combined with Iran basically building their entire defense plan on a US/Israeli invasion, had decades to make one and make sure their government and command structure is resilient to attack, which is why you can kill off a shitload of their leadership and still have them function as a defense. All of this makes the current attempt even stupider and more foolish than you can possibly imagine.
And your statement that the US government employs lots of experts on Islam is both correct and incorrect at the same time. You are correct in that they do, but incorrect in that many of them are (or at least were) anti-Islam internet polemicists and 'ex-Muslim experts' (most of them were Christian converts, and I had the displeasure of meeting some face-to-face... holy shit these guys are insufferable) like Ali Sina (not his real name) or Ibn Warraq (also not his real name) and absolutely hateful bigots like Robert Spencer, with some other guys like Daniel Pipes, more of whom were neocons and purveyors of islamophobia and very pro-Israeli expansion that lead me to believe they are far less historians or religious experts but more lobbyists and pundits. Ali Sina is INTENSELY anti-Arab and his talking points, all the way from 2001 (pre 9/11 2001) until his most recent articles are hateful, vuglar, poorly written and thought up, and sound like they were regurgitated from a Hasbara manual than anything else. Ibn Warraq is a man who is absolutely desperate to be seen as a classical intellectual in the same vein as Bertrand Russell, but even looking at the first few pages of his any of his books are rife with so many basic factual and research errors and bizarre leaps of logic and leaps to conclusions that, like Ali Sina, I believe he was basically briefed on what to write in his books by Israeli intelligence and just using the veneer of being an 'Ex-Muslim telling the truth' to avoid direct and immediate dismissal on racism grounds (and he is a very anti-Arab guy, too).
When you hear white supremacists and Pete Hegseth talk about Islam, you are hearing the arguments that those guys I mentioned above fomented. They're not actually concerned with reality. In a way this is what people like Ibn Warraq wanted: They wanted to end all discussion into the matter of Islam and discussions of Islamic society and religion and everything... Ibn Warraq believed his earlier works (pre 9/11) answered all questions and all professors need to shut up and listen to him without question. BTW, we have no idea as to Ibn Warraq's real identity and credentials except for what he wrote about himself. I do not even know if the guy is still alive since he hasn't written anything in many years.
Then there is just the plain racism angle that has been in US policy from day 1 (and I mean that literally). If you look at US policy towards any non-white country, their assumptions are rooted in one idea: Non-whites are terrible soldiers and warriors and cannot fight. Prior to WW2, Britain and the US assumed the Japanese were a bunch of chumps and racially inferior. They refused to believe that Japanese aviators could ever inflict any damage and that any war in East Asia between the Japanese and the US and UK would be a 100% defensive war, that the Japanese would try, be defeated, and eventually give up. WW2 really, REALLY changed that perspective. The Japanese might have been seriously underequipped, especially after 1942, but they didn't give up one inch of land without making the allies pay in blood.
After WW2, Korea happened... and one again, "Chinamen cannot fight" was their mentality. They couldn't see Korean troops and their Chinese allies putting up a fight... until they did. They almost beat NATO in the beginning, then NATO forces pushed them back up, but then the joint Chinese and North Korean forces pushed them back. This was not expected from them.
Vietnam is... Vietnam. I don't need to tell you about that. They legit started thinking they just needed a few advisors and special forces and a small occupying force, and then Vietnam became THE symbol of 20th century military quagmire for not just the US, but all countries involved.
The assumption against Arab militaries is the same. This was done as a result of the colonial era restructuring of Arab militaries to make them more like glorified police forces with no coherent strategy. The defeat of Saddam's forces in 1991, in retrospect, was almost a miracle and gave the US a lot of false optimism for the future Iraq war. They didn't count on the fact that Iraq, like Iran, spent the next 10 years building up a resistance plan against US invasion because they knew they would not be able to hold them off, so they would make occupation as painful as possible.
But this brings us back to the current thing they're doing in Iran... these people came in in the stupidest manner imaginable. So yes, while the US often neglected long-term planning. The sheer stupidity of Trump and his goons is baffling even the standards of previous presidents. Basically there is no way, NO WAY of defeating Iran. They might have stood a chance in 2004 if, and only if, Iraq and Afghanistan were pacified, but that is not the case.
I could go on forever (as you have probably seen), but Trump and Hegseth are working this 'war' in the same of a publicity stunt. It is like how Trump demolished part of the White House and just left it, or started a few companies in the 80s and 90s that all went bankrupt. Pete also acts like war is a video game where you drop some bombs here and there and blow up this and that and then you win... also their policy toward assassination and murder and somehow expecting people not to treat it for the monstrousness that it is is very, VERY telling about their mentality. The Israeli policy of kill everyone and exterminate their families but still expect themselves to be seen as saviors and holding the moral high ground is by far the most disgusting part of it, and that mentality has spread to the Republicans fully. Did you know that Hamas's leader had 60 members of his family killed by Israel? In the 19th and 20th century (even maybe before) as rule, they kept the leader's family out of the picture. Even the Nazis didn't purposefully target the families of the leaders of their rival nations, and the allies didn't bother Hitler or Mussolini's relatives or the relatives of any of the leadership. Hell, did you know that several of Hitler's relatives served in the US military during WW2? Even Herman Goering's nephew served as a bomber pilot over Europe! No one had a witch hunt for Hitler's relatives. Mussolini's family have never gotten out of politics in Italy, and the families of Japanese war criminals were never barred from politics, even executed ones. Shinzo Abe's materal grandfather was a war criminal (but his paternal grandfather was a pacifist), but that shit didn't matter.
With this? They think they can kill anyone they want left and right because 'they are evil, we are good'. This is the mentality that is seriously unprecedented and they act like it was the norm.
Just a reminder that this is another distraction tactic, not to say it's not barbaric but Trump always needs a new story so people stop talking about his unbelievable failures.
Finally found the Line.
These goalposts must be mounted on wheels
Let's quit pretending like we're not! It doesn't mean we all are or that we are all the time, but we fucking are!
The only way we can truly change things is by coming to terms with reality.
America is light and dark.
We’re already a barbaric nation… or have you not been paying attention for like… your whole life?
That America is planning to do it already proves barbarism. Just like Republicans don't need a successful fascist takeover to prove they are fascists. They already are.
No if. You run torture camps where you detain people you've kidnapped from around the world. You kill innocent fishermen with navy seals. You murder entire weddings in drone strikes. You bomb baby food factories. You arm the Indonesians to carry out a genocide in East Timor. You drop chemical weapons on Vietnam. You bomb Cambodia and Laos, rendering about a million homeless. You kill one million in Iraq. You fund a genocide in Palestine. You fund a genocide in Guatemala. You bombed Yugoslavia when a diplomatic alternative that you proposed is on the table. You've turned Libya into an open air slave market. You've had Cuba in an economic stranglehold for decades, culminating in the current crisis. You're the only nation that ever dropped an atomic bomb on civilian centers, and you did it twice. Six figure death toll those days alone. There's no if. You're a barbaric shitstain of a nation. Death to America.
The US is actively doing a lot worse than that right now <- Plug in any time in the last 250 years.
I suggested to some friends we go all in and have advertisements on the wall behind person being shot, I was kidding of course but one of them said "Don't post that anywhere someone will think it's a good idea".
“Sponsored by Head & Shoulders”
Well, just Shoulders now.. 🤷🏻
Ideally the bullet would knock down the "head" part of the sign. It'll look real good on the slow mo.
Would make a good scene in Idiocracy pt2
America believes the weak and impoverished should be left to die and that we should publicly execute people.
America is Barbaric
Well that's their goal. They that think the more goulish they behave, the stronger they appear, because they think cruelty = strength. Weak men trying to be strong.
Sure, you was not already a barbaric nation before t with the dozens of coups, the creation of multiple failed state , multiple war of aggressions, supporting genocide all over the world \s
Yes, nation of punching down, cloaked behind "liberty and justice for all". It was always mostly lies and a little truth, a way for the wealthy to take more as they've done for ages, and use supernatural as excuse too for their violence against people. So much knowledge was lost too, it's tragic the invaders couldn't get along like the Haudenosaunee Confederacy had found a better way. It's not too late to make better choices for better future.
Yeah, it's not even pay per view.
"im fine with the state executing people as long as it behind closed doors!" - liberals
The New Republic is a conservative publication.
What ? There are 25 states that have abolished death penalty, take a look at that list almost every blue state is on it . MAGA dummies subsist on sucking down hot loads of right wing misinformation in order to prop of the abject failure of the trump administration.
Great... it only leaves the other 25...
Pretty sure we got that covered when we killed those school children. You know, to "MAGA".
Make America Genocide Again?
It never stopped
99% of Hollywood "entertainment" is just mindless violence.
we should at least give him a fighting chance against a lion, a bear, or make him complete a bike course through a city without bikelanes.
If.... and this is in the sidebar:
Straight newrepublic link for me, either OP changed this within 12 minutes of your comment before I loaded the page, or something weird is going on for you, maybe some sort of caching and you got an older version of the post? Which client do you use?
Oh, I wasn't clear.
Pointing out irony. The sidebar shows the rules for the community and that article. Today I'm using FF as my client. Usually Jerboa.
The image is a direct refutation of the usage of "IF" in this context. It was a funny juxtaposition.
Oh gotcha, I didn't realize you were pointing out the contents of that article, rather than the rule lol
Do you think he knows who Robespierre was?
I do bc of The Scarlet Pimpernel 🎊
i mean we already are, even if we didn’t publicly broadcast it
Too many that are too rich. They get twisted and have to go new ways to entertain themselves.😢 And sadly our SOME community is made for sociopaths to thrive.
Taking you all back to the Dark Ages! That’s about Kegbreaths speed!
Even if it doesn't, its only because everyone refused to do it.
Whats important, is that Trump and his sycophants CLEARLY want this. And they don't see the problem either
Without any data or research to back up my opinion, I think that not many people have any problem with the death penalty or public executions in the United States. A vocal group is against it but the entire society and culture is one based on violence and not the rule of law.
It's been basically outlawed for a reason. Moat US Americans oppose capital punishment.
Most US Americans also oppose Trump and ICE and Climate Change. The government's action rarely reflects what the constituents want, because the US is not a democracy
It’s not we.. it’s the evangelicals, racist, and Fox brained Boomers who make up what remains of trumps base.
Was Kirk a boomer? You really think it's one generation?
There are edge cases,I forgot Billionaires and Morons and Christian Nationalists Grifters but no sizeable Gen Z constituency
In reality:
Before it happened: "If we [thing] it will destroy us and we will deserve it."
After thing: "lol oh well in for a penny"
Rules in this country:
A clean family show -> ✅
Profanity-> gray zone
Sex-> gray zone
A live execution using a human as a firing range target -> ✅
You gotta put two spaces at the end of each line for it to appear on a new line
Thank you
Trump—that traitor and Kremlin agent—doesn't have long left.
There needs to be a distinction made. This action is one formed and put in action by the Administration - not by We or Us. Election of the "potus" is questionable. He and his minions spit upon the US Constitution. We The People pay the taxes and foot the bill for whatever Congress and the current Administration, renegade politicians, decide to do. They DO NOT represent the people. Once elected, they act as they wish, how they swayed by lobbyists and their political parties. I was aghast when I heard this was to occur and I am no bleeding heart when it comes to capital punishment. This takes us back to burning the condemned at the stake or were beheaded while villagers crowded to enjoy the spectacle.
Thats a lot of words just to copy Ed Sheeran 's "but I'm not complicit"
Spoileralert: you are
Also just a reminder, constantly talking about what Hegeseth wants you to talk about (i.e. the live execution) instead of talking about what he doesn’t want you to be taking about (i.e. losing bases in Iran, Epstein, etc) is playing right into his hand.
Also a reminder that you can oppose more than one thing at a time, and opposing a barbaric public execution is objectively the right call.
But talking about it in ad naseum without even mentioning WHY he’s doing this? Yeah that’s just feeding the propaganda machine my friend.
You already are.
What if we execute him with a bag over his head but his nipples are out. That would be kind of progressive.
Harsh punishment doesn’t deter crime because most criminals are like “of course I won’t get caught” and/or they’re super desperate.
Personally, I think the death penalty ought to be banned simply because the court system isn’t perfect. Innocent people can, will, & have been executed.
So how long until you're okay with an innocent person being put to death?
Also, why does someone else get the right to choose to end another person's life? What's the difference between a man pulling a trigger at a bar killing someone, and a judge deeming they deserve to die for it? What makes the judge have the right to decide who lives and who dies, but some dude in a bar can't?
No. We're not a barbaric nation. It's this particular administration. And if someone says it's the people who voted for them you should first consider how people can be manipulated into believing the world is something that it's not.
We as an entire country should honest to god get wiped out by the rest of the world. Earth would be a better place if every man woman and child in this rotten country were dead.
First step is sanctions. They can't even do that ffs