I think a lot for the guys that follow these morons and buy into this culture did not have positive male role models growing up, thus turn to media for some guidance.
This does not excuse their conduct or self-delusion, but does explain why it happens.
I'm in no way excusing their villanry, but most are so delusional that they won't ever take a hard look at the way they are and wonder if they could be something else or if they need to change
Empathy doesn't have to mean letting them do whatever they want. It's the only path to reforming them. I've worked with a young kid with no dad in the process of going down this pipeline. You have to challenge them on what they think they've learned about being a man, but if you don't try to understand how they feel they will just shut you out. Ultimately you can't make someone believe something. So you either give up and label them a lost cause, or you actually try to reach them and convince them person to person.
I mainly feel bad with the young men who are not yet captured but are down that path. I'd like to think it couldn't have happened to me but I had the luxery of going through that time of my life when that stuff wasn't really around.
Though actually I had 4chan at that time and I turned out mostly well adjusted so they're not completely blame-free.
people seem to think if you're not in support of them or their position, then you haven't experienced the same things and been on the same path. I saw where I was going and specifically changed it.
I'm still a depressed, alone, piece of shit, but I'm not a bigoted, fascist piece of shit.
What do you think they should have done differently? I am excusing their behaviour but I want to understand what should anyone with no positive male role model do other than turn to the internet?
well people can be both, victims of circumstance AND be accountable to their own agency that's life its complicated and ambiguous.
I bet like 20% of people with male socialization and no good role models haven't become complete dicks
It's not the fact that they're on the internet, it's the fact that being on the internet doesn't inherently make them good.
Of course a boy subconsciously looking for guidance will find these guys and feel inspired or compelled by them. But maturity is the concept of learning from experience and challenging your own understanding in order to be a more balanced and level-headed person tomorrow. You know, exactly what these guys try to stop.
So the only thing these kids can do is embrace growing up, becoming mature, and finding role model figures that champion that instead of ones that peddle the arrested development that these charlatans do.
I find it crazy that I didn't really have any real male role models, but the media I turned to ended up being guys like Henry Rollins.
The "finding myself" period of my life pre-dated the existence of this manosphere/shallow-ass-masculinity shit, but the archetype has been around for far longer and there were plenty of slimy douchebags to look up to. Sometimes I wonder what spared me.
One of the harder moments in my adult life was facing the fact that I had nothing to offer at that time which was why only creepy much older gay men were interested in me as I looked like I was 15 at 25.
My kitchen YouTube feed randomly showed me a "Rachel Zegler criticism" video and I was curious so I put it while cooking.
It was basically a 40 min rant where some YouTuber was showing her hypocrisy because she said Hollywood needs more representation from latinos even though she was acting on a movie as a puerto rican. The video could have been 2 minutes long but I noticed it was mostly the guy criticising every single word she's said and telling you how to feel about it.
I checked YouTube the next day and now it's full of alt right channels, for context I mostly watch veritasium, audit the Audit, science podcasts, dw documentaries, kurzgesagt and some music videos, I rarely watch political stuff on that account and yet now I see Ben Shapiro, Piers Morgan, Andrew Tate, Steven Crowder and the likes, literally my whole front page was just them and my automatic queue would be increasingly alt right shit.
I clicked on not interested and don't recommend this channel and yet I constantly see the videos showing up in the front page.
I think YouTube is heavily pushing this type of content, even if you try to show the algorithm that you are not interested. They probably see that it makes people get more engaged with the platform so they are okay with radicalizing everyone just for profit.
You got it. Alt right to Nazi pipeline = increased view time = increased ad revenue. Same with how Facebook ranked content that got people to give it an "angry" react 5x higher in the algorithm than a "like" at one point. Anger/hate drives engagement.
I actually got this solely in YouTube shorts, but without having viewed anything related to it. Every few Shorts I scroll through, I'm met with something plucked straight out of the alpha/sigma/HKV trashbin and I'm assuming it's because I likely got demographic'd. It frankly kind of pushed me away from the whole feature - not much of value was lost since a lot of Shorts are just teaser trash that gives you a portion of a story designed to drive you to the channel.
Oddly, my regular, non-Shorts recommendations are fine.
I think you tubes algorithm looks for things that are new to you and then loads you up on that. For example, I had an event that has caused my tinnitus to spike and I found a 10 hour video to listen to while I work that helps mask it. Now my entire fucking feed is overrun by different coloured noises and quack/chiropractors telling me to pull my ears to heal my tomorrow
You might want to try deleting that video from your watch history. Idk if it actually does anything to the recommendations but definitely something to try.
Youtube will add things here and there to find you something new to binge on to stay on their platform. If you watch something a little, you'll be shown a couple similar videos. But if you watch a lot of that first video, you'll be bombarded with similar content like you were.
It's made me have to watch in incognito first, just so it doesn't screw up my Recommended.
The funniest thing about Andrew Tate is he's so obviously overcompensating for being gay. I mean funny weird, it would be funny ha ha if he weren't also a manipulative kidnapping rapist and grifter.
True but it might mean he isn't gay. I would be more inclined to think he gets off on the approval and admiration from anyone vs wanting sexual or romantic relationships with other men.
He did a video of him and some dude playing Chess in his undies.
I play both sides of the fence, I have seen some hot femboy on femboy action, and I swear right hand to God that Andrew Tate video is the gayest thing I've ever seen. It's gayer than 8 dudes blowing 9 dudes. I was ready to go back to women after seeing the THUMBNAIL of it. It's that bad.
Even now I'm having Akira flashbacks of this video and the damage it's done to me and god knows who else. Also, they can't play chess. Neither can I but he definitely can't.
Sneako and his "I'm a little teapot" lookin ass with those goofy ass ears. Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with "rock bottom."
I get it - like I understand the mechanism behind why some younger dudes become infatuated with these figures. It's the same reason boomer housewives get into the Law of Attraction or why people who don't have a single fucking clue think Trump is going to fix everything if he could just get one more term in office... but I don't get it.
Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with "rock bottom."
for real, have you seen the chin (or lack thereof) on tate? lmfao. might be hard to spot of course because he tries to hide it very desperately with his little prepubescent goblin beard
No, these people were always sexist, that's why it's so easy to hook them on this bullshit.
We are all socialised with misogyny (as well as cis-heteronormativity) literally from infancy (and those of us who are directly impacted sadly internalise them to a depressing degree), and that's when we need to start fighting against it, not only once the misogynists turn violent (verbally as well as physically), it's too late at that point (even if they can be deradicalized the damage they did is already done).
Work motivation content is a funnel into this kind of content. You watch a whole short form video about someone talking about work ethic with the hashtag #motivation and you will probably start getting Peterson and Tate clips
Exactly. He's a gateway to fascist, incel culture. Little ditch weed, he doesn't provide enough kick to keep you satiated at that level, so you move on to harder stuff.
Imagine making sexism and homophobia your entire personality and world view, and then crying 'wahhhhh!' when everyone thinks you're a steaming hot pile of diarrhea.
If you don't know that you're ridiculous, you might never not be ridiculous. You might never know that the premises of your beliefs are absurd nonsense.
Why does it always have to be on the rest of society to take the highest road, offer all of the grace of community to those who actively participate, encourage and promote the destruction of our society?
Ever notice that they immediately have to take the role of the victim and expect to be treated in a polite manner, then get mad when society doesn’t respond the way they want? Fucking exhausting.
I'm glad you admit that you will not take the high road, and that you have no empathy or compassion. You are a sociopath and you enjoy making vulnerable people suffer.
If somebody is in a position where Tate appeals to them, my criticism of Tate's brainwashing combined with criticism of those who ridicule lonely people will be more influential than this meme's ridicule of lonely people for being desperate enough to fall prey to brainwashing.
These lonely people are trapped between two hostile forces. I am drawing attention to that.
We aren't criticizing lonely people. Go take your strawman elsewhere.
Incel/NEET/sigma/Redpill "culture" 100% deserves as much and as frequent derision as fucking possible. The only remotely positive thing these horrendous ideas perpetuate for their target audience is the "grind mindset" (which in itself is horrifying). The only reason the "grind mindset" is helpful in these situations is that it helps people stuck in this world get into the real world.
Andrew Tate is absolute trash. He's also not one of the lonely people he's targeting.
I'm not defending Tate or Peterson. I'm defending the lonely men who fall prey to his bullshit because everybody else just ridicules lonely people for being desperate enough to reach out tothe only people offering anything to them at all.
So the secret to deprogramming a rapist's online cult members is just to have really good intentions. Got it.
I think I'm just going to continue ridiculing Tate. If that hurts his believers' feelings and they feel a bit ridiculous, well, I guess I'll have to live with myself.
Yes, the secret to deprogramming a rapist's cult is definitely 100% to have good intentions for those lonely men who fall prey to the cult.
Yes, keep ridiculing Tate because he is ridiculous and hostile. But if you are generally ridiculing lonely people for their desperation and their failure to find a good response to their misery... then you are exactly the same as Tate.
if you are dumb enough to be bigoted out of 'loneliness' then I don't think I care too much. being an asshole and being sexist and transphobic are not the same.
I'm fully aware of the depths depression and other mental illnesses can take someone to. I understand hating people because your life sucks, I won't understand people that resort to demeaning those already beneath them (in a socioeconomic sense, that is.)
I don't believe ridicule should be the immediate response. However this comment and its tone is exactly the kind of thing you're bemoaning, but from other direction. The only difference is you're being preemptive about it and basically announcing it at nobody in particular instead of reacting to one person specifically.
I think a lot for the guys that follow these morons and buy into this culture did not have positive male role models growing up, thus turn to media for some guidance.
This does not excuse their conduct or self-delusion, but does explain why it happens.
They are victims as much as they are villains.
Very much so, which makes it all that more sad.
I'm in no way excusing their villanry, but most are so delusional that they won't ever take a hard look at the way they are and wonder if they could be something else or if they need to change
this doesn't mean much tho, considering people aren't ever born 'villains'. they all are created by something traumatic.
so sure, empathize all you want, but it doesn't help anyone. simply enables it.
Empathy doesn't have to mean letting them do whatever they want. It's the only path to reforming them. I've worked with a young kid with no dad in the process of going down this pipeline. You have to challenge them on what they think they've learned about being a man, but if you don't try to understand how they feel they will just shut you out. Ultimately you can't make someone believe something. So you either give up and label them a lost cause, or you actually try to reach them and convince them person to person.
I mainly feel bad with the young men who are not yet captured but are down that path. I'd like to think it couldn't have happened to me but I had the luxery of going through that time of my life when that stuff wasn't really around.
Though actually I had 4chan at that time and I turned out mostly well adjusted so they're not completely blame-free.
people seem to think if you're not in support of them or their position, then you haven't experienced the same things and been on the same path. I saw where I was going and specifically changed it.
I'm still a depressed, alone, piece of shit, but I'm not a bigoted, fascist piece of shit.
I think it does help in that we can approach our ridicule of them from a constructive manner.
"Your role models are taking advantage of you."
"At least I don't fail to hide my insecurities behind toxic masculinity."
"You're alone because you choose to be alone."
They also never grew out of high school mentality.
What do you think they should have done differently? I am excusing their behaviour but I want to understand what should anyone with no positive male role model do other than turn to the internet?
well people can be both, victims of circumstance AND be accountable to their own agency that's life its complicated and ambiguous. I bet like 20% of people with male socialization and no good role models haven't become complete dicks
It's not the fact that they're on the internet, it's the fact that being on the internet doesn't inherently make them good.
Of course a boy subconsciously looking for guidance will find these guys and feel inspired or compelled by them. But maturity is the concept of learning from experience and challenging your own understanding in order to be a more balanced and level-headed person tomorrow. You know, exactly what these guys try to stop.
So the only thing these kids can do is embrace growing up, becoming mature, and finding role model figures that champion that instead of ones that peddle the arrested development that these charlatans do.
I find it crazy that I didn't really have any real male role models, but the media I turned to ended up being guys like Henry Rollins.
The "finding myself" period of my life pre-dated the existence of this manosphere/shallow-ass-masculinity shit, but the archetype has been around for far longer and there were plenty of slimy douchebags to look up to. Sometimes I wonder what spared me.
Don't forget has never assessed what they have to offer, nor do they make efforts to improve.
That’s what most people tend to forget, unfortunately.
One of the harder moments in my adult life was facing the fact that I had nothing to offer at that time which was why only creepy much older gay men were interested in me as I looked like I was 15 at 25.
And if they do have something to offer it's "you only want me for my status and money."
My kitchen YouTube feed randomly showed me a "Rachel Zegler criticism" video and I was curious so I put it while cooking.
It was basically a 40 min rant where some YouTuber was showing her hypocrisy because she said Hollywood needs more representation from latinos even though she was acting on a movie as a puerto rican. The video could have been 2 minutes long but I noticed it was mostly the guy criticising every single word she's said and telling you how to feel about it.
I checked YouTube the next day and now it's full of alt right channels, for context I mostly watch veritasium, audit the Audit, science podcasts, dw documentaries, kurzgesagt and some music videos, I rarely watch political stuff on that account and yet now I see Ben Shapiro, Piers Morgan, Andrew Tate, Steven Crowder and the likes, literally my whole front page was just them and my automatic queue would be increasingly alt right shit.
I clicked on not interested and don't recommend this channel and yet I constantly see the videos showing up in the front page.
I think YouTube is heavily pushing this type of content, even if you try to show the algorithm that you are not interested. They probably see that it makes people get more engaged with the platform so they are okay with radicalizing everyone just for profit.
You got it. Alt right to Nazi pipeline = increased view time = increased ad revenue. Same with how Facebook ranked content that got people to give it an "angry" react 5x higher in the algorithm than a "like" at one point. Anger/hate drives engagement.
I actually got this solely in YouTube shorts, but without having viewed anything related to it. Every few Shorts I scroll through, I'm met with something plucked straight out of the alpha/sigma/HKV trashbin and I'm assuming it's because I likely got demographic'd. It frankly kind of pushed me away from the whole feature - not much of value was lost since a lot of Shorts are just teaser trash that gives you a portion of a story designed to drive you to the channel.
Oddly, my regular, non-Shorts recommendations are fine.
If you delete the video you watched it should help
I think you tubes algorithm looks for things that are new to you and then loads you up on that. For example, I had an event that has caused my tinnitus to spike and I found a 10 hour video to listen to while I work that helps mask it. Now my entire fucking feed is overrun by different coloured noises and quack/chiropractors telling me to pull my ears to heal my tomorrow
You might want to try deleting that video from your watch history. Idk if it actually does anything to the recommendations but definitely something to try.
Youtube will add things here and there to find you something new to binge on to stay on their platform. If you watch something a little, you'll be shown a couple similar videos. But if you watch a lot of that first video, you'll be bombarded with similar content like you were.
It's made me have to watch in incognito first, just so it doesn't screw up my Recommended.
I like that it ended the scene
Dalas, ¿verdad? Tiene el poder de hacer parecer razonables sus palabras para gente ignorante, aunque sean basura
The funniest thing about Andrew Tate is he's so obviously overcompensating for being gay. I mean funny weird, it would be funny ha ha if he weren't also a manipulative kidnapping rapist and grifter.
What makes you think he is gay?
The way he invites smaller men over to look at him in his boxers and fawn over him. I'm bi so it's kinda hot not gonna lie.
That might be a weird form of narcissism though.
You know the two aren't mutually exclusive?
True but it might mean he isn't gay. I would be more inclined to think he gets off on the approval and admiration from anyone vs wanting sexual or romantic relationships with other men.
He did a video of him and some dude playing Chess in his undies.
I play both sides of the fence, I have seen some hot femboy on femboy action, and I swear right hand to God that Andrew Tate video is the gayest thing I've ever seen. It's gayer than 8 dudes blowing 9 dudes. I was ready to go back to women after seeing the THUMBNAIL of it. It's that bad.
Even now I'm having Akira flashbacks of this video and the damage it's done to me and god knows who else. Also, they can't play chess. Neither can I but he definitely can't.
And he's a repulsive human being.
Sad that he can't play chess given his father was a grandmaster
Nope, the funniest is his absent chin being desperately covered by suboptimal … whatever grows on it.
It's like Cosmo and their awful sex tips for women.
Keep them single, they'll keep coming back to you.
If the incels could read they'd be very upset
We need a starterpacks community!
Who are these two high value men (lol) next to Tate and the other one with the selfie?
With role models like this, This guy is a small life crisis away from "can you spare a crumb of pussy" to "does this rag smell like ether"
Sneako and his "I'm a little teapot" lookin ass with those goofy ass ears. Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with "rock bottom."
I get it - like I understand the mechanism behind why some younger dudes become infatuated with these figures. It's the same reason boomer housewives get into the Law of Attraction or why people who don't have a single fucking clue think Trump is going to fix everything if he could just get one more term in office... but I don't get it.
for real, have you seen the chin (or lack thereof) on tate? lmfao. might be hard to spot of course because he tries to hide it very desperately with his little prepubescent goblin beard
I think it's CO2 inhibiting brain functions like lead did back in the day.
No, these people were always sexist, that's why it's so easy to hook them on this bullshit.
We are all socialised with misogyny (as well as cis-heteronormativity) literally from infancy (and those of us who are directly impacted sadly internalise them to a depressing degree), and that's when we need to start fighting against it, not only once the misogynists turn violent (verbally as well as physically), it's too late at that point (even if they can be deradicalized the damage they did is already done).
That is not necessarily true. People can and do change. Darth Vader was not born evil, after all.
Darth Vader is not real.
How insightful PrunesMakeYouPoop
The person you're replying to is advocating for encouraging change.
I don't know about sexist but I imagine they always had the defect in their brain that causes them to be inconsiderate and difficult
What a bunch of freemales
God why is dmt lumped in with these idiots
You mean incels
Kermit the sexist philosopher.
So what's wrong with the guy in the bottom left hand corner?
Apparently he's some crazy tik tok "pick up artist"
Uhh I think that's a YouTuber named Snecko ? He started off ok but has really went off the deep end.
Ew
I sorta get most of it but what's the significance of "CEO,OOO,OOO" besides being a bad t-shirt you buy on the boardwalk?
Work motivation content is a funnel into this kind of content. You watch a whole short form video about someone talking about work ethic with the hashtag #motivation and you will probably start getting Peterson and Tate clips
Fuck! Why haven't I thought about it before! You hit the nail on the head!
He platforms people with dangerous views. Friends with Alex Jones, etc.
He also calls himself a comedian and as a person with a sense of humour I find that offensive.
He just enables the other dumbos by giving them platform and not questioning them at all.
Exactly. He's a gateway to fascist, incel culture. Little ditch weed, he doesn't provide enough kick to keep you satiated at that level, so you move on to harder stuff.
Somebody ain't getting bitches lmao
Hey Champ, you seem like you're tired. Take a nap. Relax. Pull the dick out of your ass. 🤎
U mad, bro? Yeah, you mad 😂
Imagine making sexism and homophobia your entire personality and world view, and then crying 'wahhhhh!' when everyone thinks you're a steaming hot pile of diarrhea.
man you are sad
Yes, the hostile ridicule we offer them is far superior to the hostile brainwashing these goons offer them.
The answer? More hostile ridicule!
The only response to loneliness must be hostility!
If you don't know that you're ridiculous, you might never not be ridiculous. You might never know that the premises of your beliefs are absurd nonsense.
So yes. More ridicule.
Feedback is a gift!
The ridicule will continue until the morale improves
That's so gross. You just have general bloodlust and you're looking for a vulnerable person to bully.
Why does it always have to be on the rest of society to take the highest road, offer all of the grace of community to those who actively participate, encourage and promote the destruction of our society?
Ever notice that they immediately have to take the role of the victim and expect to be treated in a polite manner, then get mad when society doesn’t respond the way they want? Fucking exhausting.
This is why we have Charlie on youtube to destroy these weenies
I'm glad you admit that you will not take the high road, and that you have no empathy or compassion. You are a sociopath and you enjoy making vulnerable people suffer.
You would get along well with Tate.
Tolerance is not a value, it's a mutual social contract.
If these people are not willing to give it, they can't expect to receive it when it's convenient.
This is a callous, zero-sum, losing strategy.
If somebody is in a position where Tate appeals to them, my criticism of Tate's brainwashing combined with criticism of those who ridicule lonely people will be more influential than this meme's ridicule of lonely people for being desperate enough to fall prey to brainwashing.
These lonely people are trapped between two hostile forces. I am drawing attention to that.
We aren't criticizing lonely people. Go take your strawman elsewhere.
Incel/NEET/sigma/Redpill "culture" 100% deserves as much and as frequent derision as fucking possible. The only remotely positive thing these horrendous ideas perpetuate for their target audience is the "grind mindset" (which in itself is horrifying). The only reason the "grind mindset" is helpful in these situations is that it helps people stuck in this world get into the real world.
Cork it, incel
Andrew Tate is absolute trash. He's also not one of the lonely people he's targeting.
I'm not defending Tate or Peterson. I'm defending the lonely men who fall prey to his bullshit because everybody else just ridicules lonely people for being desperate enough to reach out to the only people offering anything to them at all.
Perhaps these men should reach out to a therapist and not bigoted, hateful pieces of shit?
Because that requires them to accept they have an issue. Tate et al tells them society is at fault and they don't need to change.
Finally, somebody offered something other than than ridicule. Yes, this is an actual response.
Personally I don't think therapy will make men less lonely, but it might provide them with better coping mechanisms and a response to that loneliness.
So the secret to deprogramming a rapist's online cult members is just to have really good intentions. Got it.
I think I'm just going to continue ridiculing Tate. If that hurts his believers' feelings and they feel a bit ridiculous, well, I guess I'll have to live with myself.
Yes, the secret to deprogramming a rapist's cult is definitely 100% to have good intentions for those lonely men who fall prey to the cult.
Yes, keep ridiculing Tate because he is ridiculous and hostile. But if you are generally ridiculing lonely people for their desperation and their failure to find a good response to their misery... then you are exactly the same as Tate.
You know a ton of Tate's followers are children, right? There are a fuckload of societal issues beyond just "loneliness" in play here.
They're all rich . They are not vulnerable.
I'm not talking about the psychotic self-help grifters. I'm talking about the lonely young men they prey on. That's also who the meme is ridiculing.
if you are dumb enough to be bigoted out of 'loneliness' then I don't think I care too much. being an asshole and being sexist and transphobic are not the same.
Depression can warp your thinking.
These grifters are predators preying on vulnerable people.
I'm fully aware of the depths depression and other mental illnesses can take someone to. I understand hating people because your life sucks, I won't understand people that resort to demeaning those already beneath them (in a socioeconomic sense, that is.)
I don't believe ridicule should be the immediate response. However this comment and its tone is exactly the kind of thing you're bemoaning, but from other direction. The only difference is you're being preemptive about it and basically announcing it at nobody in particular instead of reacting to one person specifically.
I'm not being preemptive. I'm responding to general ridicule of lonely people who are falling prey to grifters.
Your comment is honestly incoherent. Maybe you can refine it.
It's definitely not incoherent but I did accidentally write at an 11th grade level according to readability checkers.
It’s hard to be nice to people who think being nice is the same as offering free breeding.