Spyke

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Question Dump / Support [wall o' text]

Hey, guys, been recontextualizing every problem in my life in view of possibly having broad autism phenotype and wanted to bounce some things off you for a sanity check.

1. How do I know if am overapplying autism? When I learn something new, I try to use it to explain EVERYTHING. And autism seems to completely explain everything that's gone wrong in my life to such a degree that I think it can't possibly be true.

I'm thinking about how I completely fell apart when I went to college. I used to think that I just "got depressed." But now I'm thinking I was having autistic burnout because I lost my routines, had to get used to a new place, was living in a dorm where I had NO privacy--I shared a room and I remember regularly crashing the Christian Student Union's office (anyone can sign out keys to the student clubs) and sleeping on their couch just so I could be alone.

I'm further thinking that my struggling with a liberal arts education was related to autism. I probably could have allowed myself to get interested in very many subjects, but all I could think about was, "how do I get a job when I get out of college?" and it was extremely demotivating because a liberal arts degree is a bullshit job qualification, not that it's a bullshit degree, but if you want to be "qualified" for a job with a liberal arts degree, there is probably a good deal of bullshit to shovel in the interview because you actually have no demonstrable job skills to speak of.

I remember very clearly thinking, "How is reading and writing papers on various subjects preparing me for a job? What is the job skill I am learning that I can apply to jobs I find in the classified section?" How am I going to convince anyone to give me a job with a degree in English, or Medieval Studies, or Sociology?

Close to 35 years later, I can´t get a second interview for a job at a grocery store, so I think my fear was well founded.

[As well as, "If I like reading and writing papers about medieval monks, would I like reading and writing papers about legislation impacting work safety requirements in, say, grain elevators? Probably not."]

I've also been getting really extremely radical in the last year, like so radical that I think humanity itself is fundamentally and irrevocably flawed. I worked for a company where I very clearly saw advantage go to people who curried favor the most, and I could smell the bullshit wafting off of people when they'd come visit from the central office. It was extremely clear to me that the only thing that really mattered was politics and that the first job of every institution is to serve itself.

Several months ago, I though, "wow, I've really absorbed Noam Chomsky's systemic critiques and embraced anarchist politics" but, really, maybe all I was doing was allowing myself to see the world through autistic eyes.

I've also had a pattern of working a job for usually a max of a year or two then quitting. Not finding another job, just quitting and moving back in with my parents. Sometimes I'd daisychain a few jobs together for a few years, but I'd always eventually collapse.

And that is exactly where I am now. I've worked steadily for over 7 years and am I just exhausted.

2. If autism truly does explain why I am unemployable, how much does it suck that I can never get a diagnosis for it?

I don't have any sensory issues, I don't have any problem reading emotions, don´t have any serious trouble getting along with people for brief periods. I've been TOLD by plenty of people I'm autistic, but I've been to plenty of psychiatrists and therapists and nobody's really brought it up and I've been deemed NOT autistic by one psychologist who was specifically evaluating me for autism. She even charged me a lot of money and made me wait several months for a pretty drearily uninformative report.

  1. I have done a LOT of** therapy** and found most of it entirely pointless, which would track if the bulk of my problems are from being atypical in an NT world (see question 1). I don´t think I have a question here, but it just seems like the default for every problem is "go to therapy" so I feel like I have to say: a) I've been to therapy b) people who do therapy are very likely NTs that can not relate c) therapy is not going to help me get or sustain a job, though I can 100% find a therapist that says they can help me.

I also want to say that I'm simultaneously the HAPPIEST about myself that I have EVER been at the same time I am the most HOPELESS about my future that I have ever been. Before I would pile up all this shame and responsibility on my shoulders, but now I see that there's nothing "wrong" with me, I'm just built differently in a way that puts me at a disadvantage in the social world.

  1. What now? I know I think I need to be self employed, but I don´t even think I'd be good at that. I have no real skills, and all the self-employed thing I can think of involve the same social bullshit as regular work. My girlfriend was telling me about interviewing a tree guy to do some work on her yard and she said she spent like an hour or two talking to him about her trees and how they were doing and I thought, "Damn, she'd never hire me, I'd say, 'It'll be $800 for the job, it'll take half-a-day. Here's my phone number, my license, and my insurance. Have a nice day.' "

Since this is a question dump:

  1. How do I make friend online? I give up on IRL. I've tried discord, but it is so annoying with everyone always chatting all the time. I don´t play online games. I'm intensely lonely, but I'd rather be alone than make constant small talk and salve people's hurt feelings constantly because I said an inconvenient truth. I literally have no friends but my girlfriend, and had only one non-romantic friend for a few months in the last 20 years.

Thank you for reading this far and also sorry for writing this.

View original on sh.itjust.works

17 replies

mander.xyz

How do I make friend online?

That's the million-dollar question, isn't it? Depending on sources, between 13% and 15% of americans say they're lonely. That's a whole fuckton of people. Our society is getting sick. People are drifting apart. Building community is harder than it ever was.

Try and find a common interest, some grain to start conversations upon. I like TTRPGs, so I meet people through that. It takes time and most of the time it doesn't turn into friendship. But I have made a couple friends. Nothing too close. For closeness, I don't think online will really do.

I introduced a friend I made at work to tabletop games. He eventually moved out of state, and started making friends through a group at Meetup. It's a website to find people based on common interests. He found a tabletop gaming group that met regularly at a bar to play.

But know that this, making friends, is hard. I met people, but as the years go by, my pool of friends I can really talk about my life and be myself... that keeps only shrinking. Sometimes I get a breakthrough and find someone, only for them to move away (literally, like the friend above). I really wish I had a better answer, and if you do find out, shout it from the rooftops - everybody seems to be needing it.

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sh.itjust.works

I have tried to makes friends with 3 men in the past 15 years. They were all monomaniacally obsessed with getting a girlfriend, and I was just there as a placeholder. I wonder what percentage of that 15% of Americans are men that kinda frankly deserve it.

I don't really have an interest in anything that would be social, except maybe languages, but then I'm dealing with a lot of NT socializing with an added language barrier (plus a lot of unwanted romantic shit if you're doing language exchanges online).

I did used to do meetup for hiking, because I enjoyed hiking, and I met 2/3 men mentioned above--and actually, there was a guy I really liked and I kept trying to get together with him and he eventually confessed that he devoted all his time to two of his female friends, and he made sure to tell me their names were Sarah and Ashley for some reason--but it was socially just me trying and failing to connect with people.

I have tried gaming (as opposed to g-a-m-b-l-i-n-g), and I appreciated it because I think it draws a lot of what used to be called "socially awkward" people, but I really found myself losing interest in the game strategically, but I've had fun roleplaying in the past so maybe that's an element to explore. There's a gaming place near me that has a discord, so maybe Í'll stick my nose in there.

I'm also thinking of trying meetups online, finding special interest groups, preferably that aren't charging money or recruiting cult members.

1

I wonder what percentage of that 15% of Americans are men that kinda frankly deserve

Probably those you'd never accidentally stumble upon?

Like me, but I just stopped being social like >2 decades ago. So I'm no more willing to spend the time nor work into a potentially new friendship.

1

Just today I was thinking about how two of the people I talked to at the town's social services had rudimentary Spanish even though Spanish-speaking people were a big part of the population. I thought "what a perfect example of job skills being less important than making people comfortable during the job interview".

3
mander.xyz

Autism has some symptom overlap with other stuff. CPTSD, anxiety, depression, ADHD... If that therapist diagnosing you didn't do differential diagnostics, they weren't doing their job right.

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sh.itjust.works

Well, that does not surprise me at all.

I got diagnosed with depression when I was in my early 20s. After ten years, I finally had enough reactions to anti-depressant medications to get a diagnose of bipolar, with which I earned disability status. A decade or two later, my psychiatrist was really trying to pinpoint an episode of mania that wasn´t linked to medication and I couldn´t give her one. She said I probably don´t have bipolar. Ok, cool, I said, so let's get me off all these drugs. Let's not be hasty, she said!

Anyway, long story short: carefully tapered myself off the meds, stopped seeing myself as fundamentally ill, and pretty steadily got better. My last therapist discharged me because he said he couldn´t bill insurance for me when I didn´t have anything. Given his ethics and the way we meshed, I suspect he might be a little autistic himself.

Funnily enough, I also had everything short of two years of agency cocksucking to be a therapist myself.

Edit: I think I wouldn't present as autistic to a therapist because I love talking when I can pick the subject, and I have an interest in myself and psychology, too.

2
mander.xyz

I'm autistic and I'm very social. So is a cousin of mine. We're not the norm, but highs functioning / high-masking autists are a good chunk of the autist population. There are many other criteria to diagnose. I hope you find good mental health support, from the sound of things they let you down.

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sh.itjust.works

For an autism dx you definitely need a certain number of things from various columns, things I definitely lack from some columns. Even if I were EFFECTIVELY disabled from it, it doesn't matter if I don't meet criteria.

Is you're social, why do you say "high-masking"? Sounds like you enjoy socializing. Is it still draining?

Yeah, thanks for acknowledging mental health let me down; even if I wasn't let down by them, I don't honestly know what they could offer me in an ideal world that would be helpful.

1
mander.xyz

Is you’re social, why do you say “high-masking”? Sounds like you enjoy socializing. Is it still draining?

I enjoy socializing, but not as neurotypicals do. Smalltalk is a drag. Normal "extrovert talk" bothers me. I like talking like here on Lemmy: with a subject, going deeper. I also quite enjoy making meaningful connections and relationships. But most people get spooked when I try to actually connect. They want the superficial bullshit. So I end up masking in those situations. Sometimes it leads to making headway into meaningful conversations and relationships, so it's worth it. But it's still draining, masking always is.

I don’t honestly know what they could offer me in an ideal world that would be helpful.

A proper diagnosis, for starters. Something is affecting your quality of life deeply. They should have been able to identify what that is. And once you are diagnosed, you can start treatment. This will invariably involve talk therapy, but depending on diagnosis, could also include medication, activities (i.e. support groups, animal therapy, etc.). The fact that you're struggling and still none the wiser on what's causing it means they failed you.

1
sh.itjust.works

Oh, you sound like me. Don't like small talk, want connection; the ratio of small talk to connection for most people--especially men--is way too high, and I don't think most men are emotionally available for friendship no matter how much effort you put into it. Though my demmands really aren't too high, perhaps specific, but not high.. like I was so happy when my 3.3bar% friend (so called because he was my only friend for 6 of the last 180 months) and I sat and watched one episode ST:NG with me and we just made fun of Ryker being horny.

I'd kind of like you to understand where I'm coming from on the therapy thing, so I'll explain it a little more, about why I'm not going back.

First, which you acknowledged, is I've already been to that well and pulled up bucket after bucket of sand. So I know it's extremely unlikely that I'll find someone helpful.

Second, the only thing that has ever been wrong with me was THINKING that something was wrong with me, something that the mental health system was more than happy to confirm and exacerbate. I said I was pulling up buckets of sand at the well of mental health therapy, but I was actually pulling up buckets of poison and drinking them.

Third, I do know what's wrong with me. I have autistic traits that disadvantage me in the work place. I don't need a psychologist to tell me that. The evidence is before me and I have a functioning brain. I think I'm in a little bit of a rut right now, but I'll get out of it, I just need time. (And one thing that therapy has been able to CONSISTENTLY do for me is puff me up with false confidence, encouraging me to charge into bad work situation after bad work situation.)

Fourth, I am never taking medications again unless I'm forced to. I think the evidence for the long-term effectiveness of meds is extremely weak, and there is a lot of evidence that it does significant harm. For instance, I felt very numbed out when I was on my meds which was subtly devastating.

Fiftth--which is a bonus appreciation point for you because you didn't bring it up--I used to do back-to-work job coaching through my disability. The job coaches did not care at all about. They were just there to socialize with all the other workers and advance in the agency or their careers and I was just there to be processed. I remember working with someone for two years, trying to figure out a better job than where I was, and when I got fired, she was in absolutely no hurry to see me, didn't schedule me for a week, and said on the phone, "Oh, I'm sure you could get a job at Walmart," totally unconcerned. I was like, damn, I thought your job was to help me really find something I was good at or that would be rewarding, but no, the system truly does not give a fuck.

Anyway, thank you very much for your concern, but I am building my own little network of activities that I find supportive, things like music, taking my dog out into the woods, tarot, foreign languages. I do wish I could find more ways to socialize, though.

1
mander.xyz

Regarding jobs, you could still apprentice at a trade. See if you're interested in electricity, carpentry, machine maintenance, etc. Tradespeople are some of the most bullshit-adverse bunch around, the work is methodic, procedural, and technical.

1
sh.itjust.works

Regarding jobs, you could still apprentice at a trade.

Who is going to take a 50+-year-old apprentice?

I can probably do carpentry. I'm not particuarly good with my hands, or interested in how things look, though.

1
mander.xyz

You'd be surprised. But do find the answer to that before sinking money into a trade school. BTW, reading your post it sounds like you're 30-something. It is harder with another 20 years on, but not impossible. And if it's going to make you happy and employed, it's worth it.

1

I sound like I'm 30-something because I've wasted the last 20 years of my life, yeah.

I don't have money for a trade school, and, again, so I don´t honestly know why anyone would hire me over someone in their early twenties, even if I was neurotypical. And being that much older than the other students pretty much guarantees social lockout even if I was an NT.

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