The first statement, worded exactly as it is, could be really helpful in certain spaces. Those words open doors into closed minds, into which the message of acceptance and support can slide. A MAGA who hears them could feel they could start being decent to their trans child or nibling without losing their whole identity. Which isn't much, to the whole world. But it could be the whole world to that kid.
To me, it's simple. The first person, I can explain to them why saying "tranny" and "fag" is bad and hurts the shit out of me, and have a good conversation with them and feel confident that by the end of it, they will have learned something, be a lot more careful around those words and even perhaps, not use them at all.
Whereas, the other person, sure they don't call me slurs, but if they were to phrase things differently and actually do call me a "tranny" and a "fag", I know for a fact that trying to talk to them about why that is terrible would be a fucking waste of my time that would only end up with them explaining to me in the most backhanded way why they are justified in calling me such.
I'll take poorly worded but earnest support over the thinly veiled disdain of polite society people any day.
First statement is better. If you support universal trans medicine, unrestricted HRT for all ages, fully accept trans people's gender, and oppose any and all transphobic laws, I'll make you a laminated t-slur pass myself.
I hope the second person goes for a long walk down a short pier.
Yeah, I find the first one much better than the second one as well. "What about the cis kids who will become trans??" is really much worse than using slurs, as the idea that gender identity/sexual orientation can be changed by external factors is pretty much the basis of conversion therapy.
And people advocating for more regulation often don't support actual medical consensus like the WPATH SoC. They usually support some shit like "No GAC under 25, and I don't care if that'll make children kill themselves.".
I'd much rather get called a tranny or some other childish slur rather than have some jackass put up a respectful facade while fighting to take away medical care from me.
My stance on HRT is that there should be a very small frictiction. If I were in politics I would go with no friction in order to join together against heavy friction, but I think having informed consent clinics with or 1 or 2 sessions before starting or easily accessible grey market is ideal. Everywhere else 0 friction.
Honestly one of the things I love about my workplace. We have two bathrooms just marked “bathroom”. One has a urinal, one has a lil box for period stuff. Use whichever you please, nobody gives a shit where you take yours
Urinals and periods. That's the grand reduction of gendered bathrooms.
If we had dedicated period rooms and quickpiss booths we'd be more accurate as a society, but the reality is just that bathrooms as public infrastructure already accomplishes everything society needs in this regard.
Urinals do use less water, but there's nothing about one person standing up to pee into a urinal while someone else sits down to pee in a toilet a few feet away that makes a room a sacred space that must be divided by gender.
Gender specific bathrooms always weirded me out. What, is a lady toilet going to be scared of my dick? Will a man toilet go hysterical over some puss? It’s dumb.
I think it’s worth keeping the urinals though, because some men are so emasculated by the idea of sitting down to pee, and while I think they should suck it up because that’s stupid, I’ll take having a urinal over them pissing all over the toilet.
I say that as a cis guy that sits to pee and hasn’t used a urinal in his life.
I prefer not sitting on a public toilet, better to keep my genitals far away from its surface. I usually go out of my way to avoid urinals but I don't have that much distaste for them.
I bring a small bottle of all-purpose cleaner with me wherever I go. Clean off the seat when I need it and also that last spot in my favourite cafe that no one wants because a toddler covered it with sticky hand prints is now mine, because I cleaned it.
Point still being that more options are better. Urinals for people that wish to use them. Toilets. Hell, personal hygiene products like wet wipes, pads, and tampons.
I've already processed those thoughts, and I'm quite comfy with my gender identity. I don't care for gender norms, and what I define as cis-man for me isn't necessarily what's traditionally masculine. I grew up very androgynous, people often mistook me for a girl. I was mistaken for a woman through most of my 20s as well.
At most, I guess you could call me gender nonconforming, but within the context of the culture where I live, I'm not sure that's exactly true.
I've got a lot of friends who are trans though, so I'll happily be the example of why Littman and her propaganda masquerading as "science" is nothing but bullshit.
Its great you know yourself! For a long time, I read trans communities as a cis man, afraid or uncertain enough to make any change. I wish folks would have made prodding comments to get me unstuck and onto actually transitioning which has only helped. Apologies if it came off as rude or invalidating.
I'm not familiar with littman's propaganda, and I'm both curious, and relived to be unburned by it.
I'm really glad you were able to figure things out! It's always better a bit later than never. Also, absolutely no apologies needed! You were neither rude or invalidating, and given you reasoning it obviously came from a place of care. That's lovely.
I've this friend who is very similar to me, we almost share birthdays even. She ended up transitioning. When she came out to me, she thought my reaction was a bit anticlimactic. I'd gone through the same thoughts, only I came to a different conclusion. To be fair I came out as gay, and that didn't really surprise her either.
I'll explain Littman in short in a spoiler here so you won't have to see it if you don't want to know. If you're politically active, it might be good to know because it's one of these things that TERFs enjoy using as a hammer, even though it doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny.
::: spoiler <Littman's BS>
In essence, Lisa Littman pushes "Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria" sometimes abbreviated as ROGD. The idea is that being trans is a social contagion because it happens when people (they usually say children, because oh no think of the children!) are socialising amongst LGBTQ+ peers.
So in order to prove this, Littman ran a poll on an anti-trans forum for parents with children who are trans, where she asked if they experienced their child's gender dysphoria as rapid-onset; that's to say, the dysphoria happened very suddenly.
The obvious flaw with this is that if a child isn't comfortable talking about this kind of thing with their parent (hello, I was also that child) because they know that the parent is hostile towards LGBTQ+ people, then the child will likely hide this from the parent. Meaning when the child is comfortable, like after they've moved out for college, or otherwise isn't under their parent's direct control, they might choose to live more openly at which point a parent might find out.
So to the parent it looks like it happened suddenly, once they started college or whatever, but it's typically something that the child has been carrying for years and years.
Like my mother was surface-level supportive of LG+ people (I don't know her stance on bisexuals, but she was not a fan of transgender, and I assume queer people), but she made it very clear to me that she wouldn't be happy if I was gay. Anything you said to her could and would be weaponised by her, so I just never told her anything.
Littman is part of the same circles as Kenneth "That Child Is Too Sexy To Be Straight" Zucker, and Ray Blanchard who thinks being trans is a kink. More than anything, all of these ideas speak volumes about the people pushing them.
:::
28 replies
The first statement, worded exactly as it is, could be really helpful in certain spaces. Those words open doors into closed minds, into which the message of acceptance and support can slide. A MAGA who hears them could feel they could start being decent to their trans child or nibling without losing their whole identity. Which isn't much, to the whole world. But it could be the whole world to that kid.
To me, it's simple. The first person, I can explain to them why saying "tranny" and "fag" is bad and hurts the shit out of me, and have a good conversation with them and feel confident that by the end of it, they will have learned something, be a lot more careful around those words and even perhaps, not use them at all.
Whereas, the other person, sure they don't call me slurs, but if they were to phrase things differently and actually do call me a "tranny" and a "fag", I know for a fact that trying to talk to them about why that is terrible would be a fucking waste of my time that would only end up with them explaining to me in the most backhanded way why they are justified in calling me such.
I'll take poorly worded but earnest support over the thinly veiled disdain of polite society people any day.
First statement is better. If you support universal trans medicine, unrestricted HRT for all ages, fully accept trans people's gender, and oppose any and all transphobic laws, I'll make you a laminated t-slur pass myself.
I hope the second person goes for a long walk down a short pier.
This reminds me of the antique meme template that was like "almost progressive redneck". It'd have text expressing progressive ideas in dicey ways.
I swear the second one is worse than being blatantly transphobic. No, you don't accept me, and no, it's not just a difference in opinion.
Yeah, I find the first one much better than the second one as well. "What about the cis kids who will become trans??" is really much worse than using slurs, as the idea that gender identity/sexual orientation can be changed by external factors is pretty much the basis of conversion therapy.
And people advocating for more regulation often don't support actual medical consensus like the WPATH SoC. They usually support some shit like "No GAC under 25, and I don't care if that'll make children kill themselves.".
I'd much rather get called a tranny or some other childish slur rather than have some jackass put up a respectful facade while fighting to take away medical care from me.
Those people are just plain transphobes who want to keep their Woke Points™
"You will never be a woman, but I accept you anyways"
With excessive effort and patience you can work that down to: "You will never have been born a biological female, so I don't accept you in any way."
My stance on HRT is that there should be a very small frictiction. If I were in politics I would go with no friction in order to join together against heavy friction, but I think having informed consent clinics with or 1 or 2 sessions before starting or easily accessible grey market is ideal. Everywhere else 0 friction.
Why do you even have gender specific bathrooms? We all use a toilet
No need for urinals.. they stink anyway
Honestly one of the things I love about my workplace. We have two bathrooms just marked “bathroom”. One has a urinal, one has a lil box for period stuff. Use whichever you please, nobody gives a shit where you take yours
I did a few stints as a janitor.
Urinals and periods. That's the grand reduction of gendered bathrooms.
If we had dedicated period rooms and quickpiss booths we'd be more accurate as a society, but the reality is just that bathrooms as public infrastructure already accomplishes everything society needs in this regard.
Urinals do use less water, but there's nothing about one person standing up to pee into a urinal while someone else sits down to pee in a toilet a few feet away that makes a room a sacred space that must be divided by gender.
As long as I don't need to actually see someone use the urinal while I'm walking to my toilet
I mean, most urinals don't have light shows and air horns. If you don't want to see something, you can just not look.
Gender specific bathrooms always weirded me out. What, is a lady toilet going to be scared of my dick? Will a man toilet go hysterical over some puss? It’s dumb.
I think it’s worth keeping the urinals though, because some men are so emasculated by the idea of sitting down to pee, and while I think they should suck it up because that’s stupid, I’ll take having a urinal over them pissing all over the toilet.
I say that as a cis guy that sits to pee and hasn’t used a urinal in his life.
You can stand to pee at a regular toilet.
Absolutely. Urinals are harder to miss though, and there are ways you can incorporate things to make everyone feel welcomed.
I prefer not sitting on a public toilet, better to keep my genitals far away from its surface. I usually go out of my way to avoid urinals but I don't have that much distaste for them.
I bring a small bottle of all-purpose cleaner with me wherever I go. Clean off the seat when I need it and also that last spot in my favourite cafe that no one wants because a toddler covered it with sticky hand prints is now mine, because I cleaned it.
That is a good strategy indeed
That is a fair enough reason.
Point still being that more options are better. Urinals for people that wish to use them. Toilets. Hell, personal hygiene products like wet wipes, pads, and tampons.
Yeah that was the first sign for me too. 🏳️⚧️
🥚
I've already processed those thoughts, and I'm quite comfy with my gender identity. I don't care for gender norms, and what I define as cis-man for me isn't necessarily what's traditionally masculine. I grew up very androgynous, people often mistook me for a girl. I was mistaken for a woman through most of my 20s as well.
At most, I guess you could call me gender nonconforming, but within the context of the culture where I live, I'm not sure that's exactly true.
I've got a lot of friends who are trans though, so I'll happily be the example of why Littman and her propaganda masquerading as "science" is nothing but bullshit.
Its great you know yourself! For a long time, I read trans communities as a cis man, afraid or uncertain enough to make any change. I wish folks would have made prodding comments to get me unstuck and onto actually transitioning which has only helped. Apologies if it came off as rude or invalidating.
I'm not familiar with littman's propaganda, and I'm both curious, and relived to be unburned by it.
I'm really glad you were able to figure things out! It's always better a bit later than never. Also, absolutely no apologies needed! You were neither rude or invalidating, and given you reasoning it obviously came from a place of care. That's lovely.
I've this friend who is very similar to me, we almost share birthdays even. She ended up transitioning. When she came out to me, she thought my reaction was a bit anticlimactic. I'd gone through the same thoughts, only I came to a different conclusion. To be fair I came out as gay, and that didn't really surprise her either.
I'll explain Littman in short in a spoiler here so you won't have to see it if you don't want to know. If you're politically active, it might be good to know because it's one of these things that TERFs enjoy using as a hammer, even though it doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny.
::: spoiler <Littman's BS> In essence, Lisa Littman pushes "Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria" sometimes abbreviated as ROGD. The idea is that being trans is a social contagion because it happens when people (they usually say children, because oh no think of the children!) are socialising amongst LGBTQ+ peers.
So in order to prove this, Littman ran a poll on an anti-trans forum for parents with children who are trans, where she asked if they experienced their child's gender dysphoria as rapid-onset; that's to say, the dysphoria happened very suddenly.
The obvious flaw with this is that if a child isn't comfortable talking about this kind of thing with their parent (hello, I was also that child) because they know that the parent is hostile towards LGBTQ+ people, then the child will likely hide this from the parent. Meaning when the child is comfortable, like after they've moved out for college, or otherwise isn't under their parent's direct control, they might choose to live more openly at which point a parent might find out.
So to the parent it looks like it happened suddenly, once they started college or whatever, but it's typically something that the child has been carrying for years and years.
Like my mother was surface-level supportive of LG+ people (I don't know her stance on bisexuals, but she was not a fan of transgender, and I assume queer people), but she made it very clear to me that she wouldn't be happy if I was gay. Anything you said to her could and would be weaponised by her, so I just never told her anything.
Littman is part of the same circles as Kenneth "That Child Is Too Sexy To Be Straight" Zucker, and Ray Blanchard who thinks being trans is a kink. More than anything, all of these ideas speak volumes about the people pushing them. :::
Its all a scam by big-toilet.