Nobody complained though...
Context: Admiral Patrick replied and included this gem:
And might I add that not one person complained until db0 went internet Karen with his hissy fit because I took his toy away from him.
"Not one person complained about my explicitly obfuscated blacklists! Damn internet Karens making a big deal!"
180 replies
Making a blacklist for your frontend is one thing.
Not telling users about it is an entirely different, more fucked up thing.
Purposefully disguising block as technical difficulties instead of deliberate blocks is yet another level of different and more fucked up.
A blacklist that users are informed of and therefore (presumably) consent to when using the software, I could understand. I still don't entirely agree with it, but I understand.
But each of the additional levels of fucked-up-ness turn it from understandable to despicable. Absolutely fuck that dev in every which way.
And the statement that it wasn't encrypted, just compressed, is an entirely antagonistic reframing.
There were multiple block lists. Some right in the open, and one that was stored as a monolithic .dat (I assume the one he called "compressed").
The end result is that the second list was obfuscated from not only end-users, but also "admins" hosting it, and developers attempting to work on the project.
The compression decision only holds if all of the filter lists were compressed and this decision was clearly documented.
Plus the circumstantial evidence that the "enable toxic mode" option did not in fact disable the filtering that relied on the .dat file.
I can't even say that I'm in theory against his openly stated goals of making the fediverse more approachable to normies. But this is not the way to implement it, and it's not the way to react when called out about it.
If you want something approachable for normies, Facebook is right there.
IMO, the fediverse should be weird and stay weird. It doesn't need to grow huge, it doesn't need to become a normie website or a household name.
I'm more than OK with weird. I love weird. I'm even ok with strong political opinions that I don't always agree with. I'm fine with Lemmy staying small in the hopes it never ends up becoming an eternal September situation.
Those aren't the issue.The problem is the violent rhetoric combined with the intense and constant bad-jacketing. Constant jumping to bad conclusions about other users and arguing against those straw men instead of trying for good faith.
At least you only jumped to the conclusion that I wanted Lemmy to stop being weird and grow unsustainably popular. I was honestly expecting someone to call me a corporate stooge or that I'm just a butthurt MAGA chud upset that Lemmy leans left-wing, then tell me to kill myself.
Well, I don't want you to feel disappointed, so here goes: you're a person who likes money and you're just upset that my virtue signalling is of higher fidelity! You should go get a coin and put it on your shoulder, so you get alarmed by the sudden clattering when you forget it's there and it hits the floor!
Is that enough vitriol for you?
Word bad step on lego immediately
Yeah, but seeing myself on line 1208 of the super-secret banned list made me feel far more dangerous and badass than I deserve. I feel like I'm barely a decent person, but I'm still working on it; apparently, that makes me a radical.
I would love an anti fascist blocklist
Do you really run into that many fascists on Lemmy? (As long as you're not counting tankies as fascist, I guess. Which they're technically not quite.)
Admiral used Blahaj as an example of a "terrorist" instance in their rant.
This confirms they are just another garden variety fascist trying to sanitize the world around them because they're too fragile to adapt, and in their psychosis they think everyone else will support their obviously broken mindset.
Yo admiral fash, if you're here with us go ahead and add me to your walmart brand palantir system. I stand with LGBTQIA, and rest assured I'd have some violence for you for silencing their voices.
Palantemu
That's a winner.
'Great Value Palantir'
I'm in stiches, hahaha!
@[email protected] is who you want.
It looks like you are right. It is a confirmed alt.
They also specifically stated they do not support transphobia
Maybe the truth is more nuanced than someone you hate is a fascist
You do realize by virtue of having a blahaj account, admiral considers you one of these violent extremist leftists he shadowbans, right? You're literally going to bat for your own oppressor right now.
Fascists won't consider you one of the "good ones" no matter how much you defend them, just some food for thought.
I disagree with the actions of the person discussed, but i am not going to call them fascist because of something that maybe possibly kinda could make them transphobic, but has multiple possible explanations
A transphobic fascist wouldnt mention that they prohibit transphobia, at best "forget" to mention it
Not everything that is bad is fascist
Completely agree. There's plenty of issues everywhere, but they're not all fascist and fascism isn't the cause of every issue. To ascribe everything to fascism is simultaneously boiling things down to black and white thinking and dilutes the meaning of fascism.
Sure, but that Tesseract guy is definitely a fascist.
Nah, he's just come out as a bog standard shitlib.
I dunno, seems like ‘but I have a black friend’ or ‘I’m not racist but…’ energy, if they’re dumb enough to think blahaj of all places is a terrorist organization…
There exist other reason they could consider blahaj bad
Not good reasons though
If there are no good reasons to block it, then what was your point?
That calling everyone a fascist is counterproductive because not everyone is as evil as one
I mean, the rest of us can't help it if they're expressing fascist ideologies. We just call it when we see it.
But they arent expressing fascist ideologies. Fascism is more than censorship
Lmao because nobody knew until db0 pointed it out. Do you really think the community at large would've taken it well if they had known?
I don't mean this ironically but this person needs to touch grass. Go offline. Disengage.
I think he should be set on fire, along with all the other people I'm on Lemmy to say should be set on fire.
every day i wake up, log into lemmy, and advocate for setting a select list of people on fire. do people use this platform for something else?
I'm also a fan of beheadings and trying to bring back drawing and quartering.
ah we frequent the same communities!
Don’t forget to advocate for the Balkanization of the United States so that all of our political problems can be magically solved and I get to bring my passport and go through customs to cross the militarized Mississippi River.
Not magic, just bringing back execution for treason, bribery, and betraying the people of your electorate. Simple stuff.
Catching up in the latest bean and moth related memes. I'm just surprised we don't have any memes around moths circling beans.
I like to make poop jokes
Oh that's a top tier temper tantrum trying to justify themselves. They got caught and they're real mad about it.
Genius thought nobody would ever read the source code...
They tried to hide it by putting it in a non-plaintext format downloaded at runtime, the actual list isn't in the source code.
Yeah, but ... they didn't think anybody would read the source, see it calling to download that file, and wonder 'what's that file for?'
it's worse than that.
they thought base64 encoding was encryption 🤣
Indeed. Software, especially FOSS software, is all about credit and reputation. And his is now trash. There is literally no one who's going to trust his software going forward. He will have to change his username and start from scratch and hope nobody figures out who he actually is as he tries to rebuild his reputation somewhere else.
Damn, Admiral Patrick makes so much sense now...
Hey, that's an insult to Patrick Star
This has been hands-down some of the best drama I’ve seen on the Fediverse. I assume there’s some sick part of my brain that just loves it when someone doubles down on a bad decision.
If all that talk of "tesseract is more than a client, it's an experience that sands off the rough edges of the fediverse" was true wouldn't that be prominently featured in the readme and UI? All this "toxic mode" and "extremists" buzzwords make it seem like you're protecting users, but many users of Lemmy are here exactly because of those "rough edges", fleeing from the sanitized, censored, unfree mainstream websites. Not because we're terrorists, but because we believe that saying "billionaires should be hanged" shouldn't be disallowed. Fuck facebookifying my experience by showing boomer memes and hiding real talk.
Oh man, I'd rather have a list of normies that make the internet slop
That post from the creator reads like a 4chan chud who escaped containment and is mad about their stinky diaper. Honestly, having read some of their little hissy fit about being caught, fuck that friendless asshole.
...aaaaaand, now you're on the list. 🤣🤣🤣
Fuck yeah, I don't want Nazis interacting with me. Also I'm trans and on blahaj.zone, so if I actually get added to the list I'll laugh my ass off at that little piss baby since they'd have to go out of their way to see my comment.
nonono, they're the one that's normal and well adjusted, it's like you didn't even read their post
"Enable Toxic Mode"... lmfao!
My discussions since joining Lemmy & dbzer0 specifically are so much higher quality than when I used Reddit. People aren't calling each other stupid, and real discussions seem to be had from both sides of different topics. Maybe the instance I'm in is just well-moderated but I can't see how this community could be considered toxic or put on a blacklist by anyone other than those who are ignorant and judge books by their covers.
Some scary words for Patrick (cover your eyes): Anarchy! Transgender! Leftist! LGBT! Equality!
You might have missed the troubles, a period when squid was still active and being anti Zionist could and would get you banned across whole instances where pointing out that Joe Biden was clearly losing in their race to be president would result in a several week ban for some of the most important and critical members of the community. The petty authoritarianism really can't be dismissed, and it's probably the most important issue facing the project currently.
I call people on reddit stupid all the time, but that's because there are genuinely a lot of stupid people on reddit who appear to be ignorant of their predicament. Unfortunately I only have so much time in a day so the vast majority of stupid redditors carry on blissfully unaware.
Uhh, what? Did you even read the comments on this very post?
Consider the possibility that you're in a bubble made out of titanium when you're here.
That's crazy, one random comment out of a hundred?
What kind of moron do you have to be ah wait you got me now it's one out of fifty!
Yeah okay I take back what I said, people only get called stupid if they deserve it lol
Hmm,
lmfao, that (linked) post. Read four words and almost fell backwards off my chair due to the sheer concentrated dipshittery, it's like taking a firehose to the face.
Of course they locked the post so you can't reply
No one complained about all the kids I raped until they knew about it! - Trump
That post max crash out. Homie included a way to turn it off like a company hiding the cancel subscription options and expected everyone to love it. Like bro if you want to filter everything out thats what your block list is for. Also, he plainly did not mention why it was obfuscated to such a degree and acted like it showed you everything.
And he called it the toxic filter. Like, dudes higher on his own farts than I am on mine. That is hard
I finally found myself but I honestly feel like this is a list of frequent users more than anything.
It does raise the question of what's left once you're done scouring out all the shit you don't like.
I occasionally visit in incognito to see what I'm missing. And I'll admit... mostly bad memes and reactionary hot takes. But I'm blocking maybe a dozen channels and twenty odd users. This block list goes into the 3k range.
In my experience, once you get rid of all the people who are willing to voice a unique opinion, the people who are left are the ones make superficial one-liner puns. One of the great things about Lemmy is it's usually a discussion, not just an upvote race like Reddit is.
yeah, when i started using lemmy i started blocking every chungus i disagreed with. then i realized i'm a pretty big chungus myself on a bad day, and there's like a hundred of us who use this regularly. if i block someone who's just having a bad day that's diminishes the experience here, but if i block someone who's always having a bad day (i'm not naming names, but there are a few) it improves the experience.
i think i might have fifty users total blocked (mostly bots and trolls i hope), and i've added maybe ten in the last year. 3k is just stupid.
Maybe he wants to see no comments at all on lemmy
no no. he "compressed it for efficiency" /s
but really, he said that.
fucking dumbass.
Wow what a cock. He thinks I fit in the category of being a "violent extremist?" Seriously? All I ever do is advocate for peacefully voting assholes out of office. Fuck this guy and his quiet censorship. May he always find a pebble in his shoe.
Here's the full list, my revenge for not being on it:
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler anarchist.nexus:
primrosepathspeedrun unruffled
ani.social:
AntiBullyRanger Arabshinobirp hisao
aussie.zone:
ape8008 gaymer Taleya
bookwyr.me:
Signtist
crazypeople.online:
Smeagol666
crust.piefed.social:
Zastrafa
discuss.online:
Fives JC1432 pelican476
discuss.tchncs.de:
blackris Changelin cyko Emilia karma_will_f_you_up qwerty Silly
expressional.social:
Peter_Link
feddit.dk:
MBech
feddit.nl:
monogram
feddit.online:
bobby hdp4
feddit.org:
Azrael Ulrich
feddit.rocks:
PipedLinkBot
feddit.uk:
DampSquid Johnslims85 NomNom tetris111 Zombie
fedia.io:
Chozo Envy frustrated_phagocytosis Hegar Nyxias Zier
futurology.today:
FuckAIFreeIsrael
h4x0r.host:
glowie
hilariouschaos.com:
AINewsBot
infosec.pub:
CubitOom
jlai.lu:
Bad
lemdro.id:
biscuit Chenlanlan
leminal.space:
Bar548
lemmings.world:
bluesocks leftthegroup nuggie_ss SanctimoniousApe tirednapstablook whereyaaat
lemmy.bestiver.se:
rssbot
lemmy.blahaj.zone:
ada birdwing Marshezezz mathemachristian Strawberry Xtallll
lemmy.ca:
8H2k2139 AlfredGreen avidamoeba Canconda corsicanguppy ILikeBoobies jerkface jtsk2009 LoveCanada masterofn001 sherikaz Snowpix TerranFenrir TheAgeOfSuperboredom Tree usernames
lemmy.cafe:
apenstaartje ineedmorecoffee
lemmy.cif.su:
toad31 zrst
lemmy.dbzer0.com:
commie Daft_ish Flatworm7591 kami kbobabob nomugisan otter red_bull_of_juarez tlekiteki
lemmy.gregw.us:
Rachael
lemmy.linuxuserspace.show:
whamgeek
lemmy.ml:
Armio2 BrainInABox bubblybubbles Confidant6198 daydrinkingchickadee gary_host_laptop Imnebuddy jackeroni jankforlife manuallybreathing menemen PastaCannon pete_link poderobrero ricesoup tastemyglaive
lemmy.myserv.one:
grimpy
lemmy.nz:
Fizz passwordforgetter
lemmy.org:
Lumino Optimal researcher2022
lemmy.today:
Ronald someone sudo Tollana1234567 WorldsDumbestMan
lemmy.world:
%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87 6dr chris AbbyGoodluck Abeersalem15 AbidanYre AccmuoncuaHuy Aea Alpha71 anarchy79 AnunnakiTrumpCard appledinosaurcat ArchmageAzor Asidonhopo atmorous aza balal Barkeep Bassman27 BC_viper Belfa Bell2026 BlameTheAntifa blave block_hacks boshibo canyoubringmesunrise carlyne2 cathfish catwoman Coleman Coupable cowfodder criss_cross Cypher Dagotad Dagwood_Sanwich dale1981 damanian2 DaMonsterKnees dareliou Daren Dbanno deddit dgdft dickalan diptchip Doorbook driskellz Droggelbecher dtdexdsexarmxmxzvhcj DuskAlis dwouu Dwuriii elbiter eli6 FancyLad Fanilla filew flandish foga Formfiller fraeli Free_eye FriendlyFern8768 FuckFascism ges2347 gipoc GreenKnight23 grinder223 Harbinger01173430 HellenicMysteries helmi125 heysylvie hOrni hxxdjay I_love_lemmy ibleachmyarsehole ieatpwns inal inclementimmigrant IndustryStandard isa0 Jareli jicin Jimjim Jimm Jimmymcool kadup kapanig Karenil karli khalid Kierakaa Kira00 kogito L64Mha4e Lanodion Larell larian LeCookie lemmyng Lemmywo lemonhead2 LF2KzTIomNOO7s LifeSeeker Likeman Lilyi linatio1 lmdnw Lucky_Acid luky57 Lunio macke49 MagicianWithABadPlan Mamdani_Da_Savior mapleseedfall marcos MayBeMe mayey MellowYellow13 meyer113 Mike_The_TV minorkeys mnhs1 monatide murrayy Nalev nehare newsppster newthrowaway20 not_that_guy05 noumenon Nuerion oakey66 oh OmAnandmayOmShantimay Ore Pacino palih Passerby6497 paultimate14 Plurrbear postmateDumbass PrivateCarr Proprietary_Blend Qaf ravager Raystone RockstarSunglasses roua ryanmorie SailorFuzz Saori Sarano saryano Sat Sayaf shalafi Signalizer sijifec SinAdjetivos sixeyo some_designer_dude SugarCatDestroyer SummerFreezing Taicho tanisnikana Tanyapizza thandieudaihiep theHRguy Thenews ThePyroPython ThunderQueen tla topnews TotallyHumanPinkySwear TrueAirspeed uCm8d3QWc UCRP0Rb1V udc UjU1alhg unitymatters Valiane validiarim Valino Valiscian Valyri vanidian1 vanidou Vanyall Vaya VdTyiCwLi73VWf Vendebout Venduan Veneto venusaur Viannot2 Vinarion vipec VolkTheGreat98132 vowije Voyarel Vulpin waltano Wara warino2 Wayzan Wazal1 Wazay Wdst Wiri wit Wolsu wulrin Wulsko wursali Wuzy wvthknt xenomor Yawweee877h444 yeetdex Yokohama yucandu Zippygutterslug
lemmy.wtf:
LinguisticKerosene
lemmy.zip:
callouscomic elcomicbot Embargo LeaveItToGod mang0 Overpriced_Food2026 reader srecko stupud the_q U7826391786239
libranet.de:
profile/fu
mander.xyz:
Deep jared Jimmy Sepia
masto.ai:
Miro_Collas
mastodon.art:
NickEast_IndieWriter
midwest.social:
Corelli_III Infynis seahorse
multiverse.soulism.net:
Grail
pawb.social:
chosensilence ollie
piefed.blahaj.zone:
ada
piefed.social:
bluemoon Bonus bruzq cabbage Goten GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson jojo pieland Shadow79 unknown xerxes
piefed.world:
homes Mod Reaqlto s
piefed.zip:
astrid p3l
programming.dev:
audit69 Cruel expr mrmeeseeks Sl00k snikta steam username_1
quokk.au:
FreeAI
reddthat.com:
Keep Mod throws_lemy
retrolemmy.com:
Observer toast
scribe.disroot.org:
assaff kadu randomname Scotty
sh.itjust.works:
ALERT AlexisFR_2 ayanna Azaniel breecher corinnqe DeathByBigSad Esperanza Feb foyuka funkforager George Gullible HellsBelle Ilovethebomb Jax kavarski kwero lagoon8622 Lanadi LaserTurboShark69 Odin pelespirit Prometheus Rojof SeventySeven sopheee Taranel Torano2 Valenou vogo13 volubu Wasnu xodasu Yachiyo zenitsu zzffyfajzkzhnsweqm
slrpnk.net:
amos stabby_cicada
social.vivaldi.net:
bittin
sopuli.xyz:
Alex AlvinTheChipmunk Grimreaper Lucas MightyMouse supersquirrel Vader
suppo.fi:
abc
szmer.info:
Emmie
thebrainbin.org:
sunzu2 TheracAriane
thelemmy.club:
Amoxtli Archangel brees7797 dark Hell_nah_brother ted22 wiccan2
toast.ooo:
individual yet
ttrpg.network:
j_watrfalls sadfitzy
vive.im:
dnc :::
With a blacklist like that, I'm surprised any content appeared at all, the instances listed cover most of what I see on All
Like Charles said this is just the direct bans, there's a whole regex section that goes one step further
wild to see aussie.zone, but wilder to see BOTH the big furry instances. they’re so specifically non-toxic lmao
e: ada is in there by name TWICE. blocking the whole instance just isn’t enough, gotta get that clean triple shadowban hahahah
Not my experience with aussie.zone tbh. About half of the bad apples I ran into the past few weeks have been from their instance. It was bad enough I was looking up how to block their entire instance
oh that was more meant about the furry instances
Re-read what was said.
Go read the other response and quit being redundant
This isn't the full list, some people were on it regardless of instance. I'm on it, but it's any user who has my name and any numbers after it for some reason
If anything us regex bans are the majority
Probably gave up on doing it the other way
He sure thwarted my dastardly plan of making SaharaMaleikuhm67 my next account. And I would have gotten away with it if not for that meddling tesseract loser.
Hahaha thank you!
Did I do something wrong? Am I not cool enough? Why didn't I make the list? :'(
Fyi, that list doesn't collapse on some clients and is egregiously long. Hosting it on pastebin or something would probably be better.
There's a really good reason why the fediverse is designed with public mod logs, and I imagine the motivation for creating these tools for blocking/hiding/burying content on the frontend is to get around the accountability that public moderation logs enable.
I imagine that is also why some of the first communities AP blocked were mod abuse forums.
As ever, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
That's going in the Book...
/> doesn't tolerate transphobia and hate
/> proceeds to ban the entire blahaj instance
Wat
Tells me they're only cool with the trans folks who shut the fuck up and don't make him feel any cognitive dissonance over his political fee-fees. Poor wittle baby.
Why is Admiral Patrick complaining? Just put all the complainers on the list. Problem solved /s
He probably will. He's still updating the list. Not like it matters much since most instances are likely going to delete Tesseract or use db0's fork once they get wind of this.
That's the joke :)
But I get the feeling that he wants to be right more than anything
Weird experience to get labeled as too radioactive for any other social media by someone I haven't thought about at all before today
He would have got away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling Karens
He's now calling you and all the other communities and instances unstable like matches...
https://lemmy.world/post/49887929
My guy is straight up delusional. He really ought to touch grass and come back next year when most people will have forgotten him
smart people would just shut the fuck up and walk away.
I'm glad he's dumb as a box of shit.
Upset? Everyone who's on the list sees it as a badge of honour
Instances should detect when tesseract is the client and return nothing but a fake post explaining why it sucks.
Eh, they're not wrong about a few of their points. Discovering Lemmy after being banned from Reddit is a very common occurrence. Blocking lemmy.ml also makes using the site a much less abrasive experience.
Defederation, instance/community bans, and personal block lists already manage that. Pretending to curate the user's experience by using a hidden blacklist that's mostly decided by the dev's personal grievances is just power tripping bs.
Not arguing that, I'm just saying I understand some of their motivations.
Wow we're the Australia of forums!
yeah but you were given that choice. this prick just stole the choice from thousands of users and whined about being called out.
Imagine being so ultra-butthurt that people found out (and are upset) you were trying to manipulate them.
Ha! What a white knighting tool bag
does any of this tesseract shit matter if I'm using Voyager? I can't even find the "toxic mode" button that gasbag is yelling about.
It doesn't matter to you in the sense that Tesseract is a web browser frontend and if you use Voyager you are not personally affected by the block list in your consumption of content.
It may or may not matter to you in the sense that your posts and comments might be silently shadowbanned and hidden from a lot of the people who do use the Tesseract frontend. And if you are not personally on the list, some people whose content you care about may be.
It also may or may not matter to you as a matter of principle, in the sense that you may care about the issue of silent censorship.
Yeah, this place is full of power tripping mods who ban anyone they find disagreeable with. This tesseract shit isn't anything new. It's just more efficient.
yeah as a matter of principle it seems very shady. but i couldn't tell if it was affecting me on Voyager. thank you!
There's also the fact that he wrapped up his "Toxic content" list into the security layer of the system that is there to keep a lid on spam and bots. So your choice is either to have an open forum on your instance and deal with spam and bots using your instance as a playground, or having security and blocking a whole mess of people that you don't actually want to block.
And all of this on top of him not bothering to tell anybody who exactly he was blocking with that list or why.
Handling spam should be handled at the instance level and not some fake cosmetic filter. More importantly it's the job of server admins to moderate their servers, not frontend developers to decide unilaterally.
Somebody fill me in on the drama here? db0 has pissed me off when he decided certain political opinions where more important than free speech.
From another user:
Its a kind of administrative abuse of power that has been slowly destroying the fediverse from the inside for a very long time. And it's not unique to the fediverse. But it's unique within the fediverse, in that the fediverse is a community built specifically to go against this kind of abuse of power.
We've been having a laugh about it but it's actually such a senseless abuse of trust and power, it's challenging to imagine them being anything less than a paraiah for all of time for doing this. Its implementation was quite clever and very insipid, because the snuck the ban list in in such a way you couldn't review it or even know of its existence.
*In such a way that it made it slightly harder to review it or know of its existence.
Any thorough look at the source code would notice it loading that list at runtime. And also notice it getting called and referred to in other parts of the code when it checks whether or not to block something. And that's not hypothetical, of course -- we're only talking about it because somebody did check, and it was found.
If it was closed source no one would've know, common open source W
You can still decompile things in closed source, which is what basically had to be done to identify this was happening.
Its about as scummy and antithetical to fediverse culture as could possibly be.
It's harder to look in to it though, especially with obfuscation techniques and you need asm knowledge
What do u mean antithetical to the fediverse culture. The fediverse has always had a culture of sending people with political opinions you don't like to the shadow realm. In fact db0 (op) did the same thing to my entire instance.
Edit: I wasn't aware of the full situation when I wrote this post, so take it with a grain of salt. Holy shit.
I really appreciate the statement. I don't agree with the action and think they are stupid and dangerous for the Threadiverse, as a frontend shouldn't decide what the user sees, the instance administration is the one to decide. If an instance want to go beehaw, to build a peaceful place and attract Normie's, that is great. But it's not for a frontend developer to decide. If the block list and block policy would have been communicated very prominent for everybody to check out, fine. But this is just stupid.
And by the way, I wholeheartedly agree with a lot of OPs opinions. The Threadiverse is toxic on many occasions. Instances like Lemmy.ml and dbzero are problematic and probably partly responsible for the Threadiverse not to grow. But again, it's the instance administration who should decide what the user to see. It is just not understandable for the user to have multiple levels of administrators.
You've got it backwards. Its the heavy handed administrative approach which stalled out growth in the fediverse. Not users you find personally annoying.
Fediverse growth is stalled for the same reason every alternative stalls: there's no one here, so there's no reason to join. Add on that there's no way for content factories to recoup the costs of content creation, no way to ensure their work reaches maximum eyeballs, and you pretty much guarantee a niche platform.
It''s the whole reason I'm here. I'm not interested in bullshit engagement-bait or people competing for imaginary internet points. Administration is going to do whatever administration wants, but if they're open and explicit about it, I can shop around for an instance that fits me. If they obfuscate their heavy handed administration, then I might as well go back to the algorithm.
Who knows, right now the small size may actually be a straight up benefit. Yes, there is almost no content compared to Reddit. But we're also so small still that it's not particularly worthwhile to have bots going here compared to Reddit. So there is a much higher percentage of actual human interaction here. The other place is almost all bots now, it's actually unbelievable.
I've watched the consequences and damage which admin and mods have caused. They view the fediverse or their subs as theirs to control, case in point.
So what's your solution? Because we can't just have less moderation and administration without something to replace it. If you want to move it to the frontend, then at least make it opt in and tell people (except spam)
Like in the bluesky model (atproto) you can pick and choose between appview, clients, moderation lists, etc. You can even bypass your current appview (frontend server) to fetch directly from a user's host or from another index (appview or relay)
You're also ignoring that there are many different types of users, and that lurkers drastically outnumber active posters. You lose a few active users from strict moderation, and you lose masses of lurkers from obnoxious users flooding every thread. And you get new active users from lurkers.
Block the users, communities, and instances that cause problems for you. Continue on with your life and enjoy things. Maybe even touch some grass from time to time.
If nobody offers a default filtered experience then most people will refuse to join.
Maybe you should try your own advice.
If people wanted the "experience for adults" they'd be on 4chan already! There's already places to go for that! And they aren't going there because they don't want it!
So when others create moderated spaces, don't get mad that others want something nicer.
If you want to offer a default filtered experience, you do that at the instance level, not as a frontend dev.
And you absolutely do not do that in secret, deliberately not informing users of the 'filtered experience' they're signing up for and disguising the filtering as technical failures.
If you want to start a Lemmy instance for centrist normies that blocks its users from all the 'extreme' stuff (and you are transparent to those users about what you're blocking and why), that's perfectly fine. Go ahead. I don't think your "I'll decide what should be censored for you" approach will be as popular as you think, but there's no reason not to try it.
I already do. Regularly. Which is why I recommend it. What, are you suggesting I should block you or something? Honey, you're not nearly annoying enough to block. Not yet, anyway.
Just to be VERY clear, I do not defend hiding the moderation choices, especially not in places where they aren't expected!
But the statement I responded to was about wanting less moderation than the current default. That's the only thing I talked about there. Users should have a CHOICE and that includes an informed choice in degree of filtering
This should also have been obvious from my prior reply just one step up!
uh oh, someone's got a stinky diaper! oh wait I'm on blahaj.zone so I'M toxic! quick, shadow-block me on your frontend instead of using the built-in moderation tools or picking an instance that would block me!
He WAS doing that, he had his own instance and instance blocklist. Which was fine, if he wanted to block half the Threadiverse from his instance that was his prerogative. But then he decided to take it one step further and try to push his blocklist on as many people as possible.
There is nothing to be solved? Or rather nothing to be solved in regard to silencing voices.
Don't like someone's opinion? Get into arguments with strangers online about it. Change their minds. Or don't. That's up to you. But structural silencing and obscuring of voices and communities isnt the way.
The real issue here is accountability and that we do need a solution for. And the answer is already in the fediverse, I. That we need to have a democratic approach to moderation and to some extent administration.
Take for example what happened recently with @[email protected]. Real permanent damage was done to our community and there will be no accountability on the parts of the admins who made those decisions.
Can't believe we lost PugJesus over some stupid vote rationing bullshit.
Their is a self righteousness and petty authoritarianism that comes with a perceived sense of ownership over a community, platform, or project. In many ways we're reenacting the same motions which ended up destroying reddit as a community platform, one which was built through the organic involvement and voluntary contributions of millions.
I've always seen Lemmy as the "2.0" experiment to identify and improvement upon the issues associated with the Reddit type long form threaded discussion platform so many of us prefer. And it's been extremely useful in that we continue to understand where the real friction points are in growing these kinds of communities. Examples like @[email protected] editorially banning @[email protected] for explicitly political reasons at critical moments during a highly visible political campaign, this shadow ban list, pretty much every moderator action that squid ever took, these secretive matrix chats behind closed doors. The "3.0" version of whatever this has needs far better tools to support moderators, but also to hold moderation and moderators accountable and to give the ability for community to replace them as needed. Also, the ability to merge or fork communities and to migrate communities or accounts from instance to instance. Its simply unacceptable to do some of these activities and many of them while questionable at the time, have in retrospect turned out to be quite nefarious and destructive to the overall project.
Migration is definitely one thing holding us back, I think. While migrating your user to another instance would be nice, community migration is absolutely critical. We absolutely need to be able to move a community to another instance and have all the followers/subscribers automatically carry over. So many small communities have suffered and languished after moves, and it also ultimately drove off PugJesus in a way.
I think a merge/fork/subscribe system would also be critical and could revolutionize somethings.
Say you have a community for dirt biking, but it's not big and doesn't have traction, you can merge it into maybe 'motorcycles' till a critical mass for 'dirtbiking' is met. Its really one of the issues we faced early, and part of it is that the current design is for each instance to be a self contained replacement to reddit.
Except for the fact that your time and attention are the most precious resources of your life, and you don't owe them to anybody, least of all the worst assholes of this place.
You are not entitled to an audience, people who want to see less of some things are allowed to see less of it.
Yes accountability, etc, is needed. The variant I'm in favor of is stuff like a content addressed protocol where you can "fork" a forum to substitute misbehaving mods (or server admins). But removing layers of moderation can not be a solution. Bluesky's atproto has similar mechanisms but there's not a lot of activity in making forum-shaped sites with it.
when I get banned, even temp banned, for bogus shit nobody else gets banned for I just block the community.
I've lost count of how many communities I was active in that that happened in.
heavy mods silence the most active users in a community and it stagnates.
Its an option. I do consider it to be the easy option.
What a freaking loser.
Don't know the situation, but I'm a little confused after reading the linked post. In the link post, the dev says that it was always mentioned in the app's settings with a "toxic mode" that turned off the filtering, yet everyone here talks about it as if he kept it a secret. What's going on? Was that text actually in the settings or is the dev lying here? If it was in the settings, why is everyone claiming the dev hid it?
Looks like it was added a couple months ago, see e.g. https://dubvee.org/post/5865082.
The hidden file though was not included in the code repository as would be more standard for a FOSS project like this. This alternative web UI is thus making use of the author's personal blacklist, rather than one shipped with the code and that could be modified by instance admins during installation of it.
Read more about that part here: https://lemmy.world/post/49817942.
Ah OK, that's weird... Yeah, it's only mentioned very vaguely in the changelog.
What I don't understand is: where does it pull the blacklist from?
From his server, where only he has control.
There is also some rumblings about the fact that this list, which is pulled in from his own server and compressed/encrypted so that using file search tools on it wouldn’t turn up any results, isn’t actually disabled by enabling “toxic mode”; but I can’t prove that.
Doesn’t matter, secret block lists that allow you to basically remotely moderate instances where your frontend is installed is some Temu CIA shit. That guy can take his hubris and fuck right back off to Reddit
Supposedly that second, larger & hidden list you can disable, it's the first, smaller & reportedly hard-coded instance list that you cannot as readily do.
Honestly, it doesn't reflect well on these kinds of projects that this is not the first such case. I remember the controversy when it was found Lemmy had a hardcoded blocklist and the dev refused to remove it for the longest time.
Do you mean Lemmy's hard-coded slur word filter? Yes fortunately that was removed. I find it the height of irony how the Alternative Facts crowd keeps blaming PieFed for having hard-coded instance filters, which it does NOT do, while also shilling for Lemmy doing the same thing. But hey, Russia invaded Ukraine, you know? Whereas if you listen to certain people's ah... uh... "alternative perspective on the matter"... then it was actually the other way around!! (Except again, it was NOT!!) So there's nothing you can do about that except not feed the trolls the attention that they so desperately crave.
Or you might mean instead Lemmy's choice to hard-code Lemmy.ml as the source of truth as to what communities are allowed to be recommended to a new instance just starting up. Not a neutral 3rd party webpage or service, but basically if that specific instance has banned it, then it does not exist in the form of acknowledgement to new instances. This also is something that they blame PieFed for doing, which here too it does NOT, whereas Lemmy truly did. Or rather, tbf came very close to almost doing - I think that decision was rolled back soon enough that it did not even make it into the official released codebase, the outcry & pushback was already too high maybe? It still exists iirc as something that now can be opted out of by modifying a configuration setting to use some alternate source of truth, though with Lemmy.ml still the default setting rather than a neutral 3rd party service.
I would think if Lemmy had actual hard-coded (instance) blocklists, that must have been like... at least four years ago?
Truly, Lemmy has gotten better and less opinionated over time - still not perfect (see attempt described in 2nd paragraph above), but better.
While PieFed unfortunately is getting more opinionated over time. Enough even to sabotage all hopes that it will be useful for both serious discussions a la Mastodon plus also funny meme scrolling a la Reddit & Lemmy. See the PugJesus incident. Perhaps this was inevitable? It began as a general-purpose software, but increasingly Rimu (while seemingly being burnt out from fighting against the tankies of Lemmy) looks to want to take on the next steps of remodeling the very underlying nature of social media itself. But... nobody is ready for that just yet, the subscriber numbers simply are not there, and damnit some of us actually DO want to look at funny cat photos and videos!!! (As well as a great discussion too.) More to the point, the roll-out was spectacularly poorly handled, as even admin teams of multiple instances cited having no knowledge of what was going on, even on their own machines after updating the software but then being surprised at the differences in how it handled things (to their credit, the ones that I heard of each handled the situation very quickly and quite professionally).
So yeah, I'm disturbed by the progressive death of the Threadiverse as our numbers keep falling (55k Monthly Active Users at our peak, down to ~35k lately iirc), and then all the infighting pushes people away still further, especially those least willing to read about the details of each incident.
I meant the slur filter. Honestly, I hadn't heard about the other issues - but having seen what I've seen of Dessalines, I'm not really surprised.
Goddammit, I just want to enjoy some social media without the enshittifacation bullshit. And I know many people in my life who would also be interested - but I can't in good faith recommend this in the current state. Why does it have to be so hard...
Does this number include accounts from those who, like me, interact with the threadiverse from non-threadiverse platforms? I mean, Misskey, Friendica and even Mastodon are able to interact with Lemmy/mbin/kbin/piefed threads and comments, although they wouldn't be considered as threadiverse I guess?
[email protected]
OK, that's fucked up. Man, I wanted to believe the dev because I legitimately understand the problem he's trying to face, but being so opaque about how it's handled is not OK.
https://tesseract.dubvee.org/tesseract/api/system/policy
Full details in https://lemmy.world/post/49778353 including how to download and decompress (111KB of JSON).
Obfuscated? Did you look at the code? It's in a file called "blacklist" with a GUI option to turn it off and it has some funny comments inside. It wasn't even encoded it's literally plain text
Edit: perhaps I saw a fork with the decoded list; either way I'm sorry for spreading misinformation looks like I'm totally wrong.
The option to turn it off doesn't turn off THAT blacklist
There's this really nifty feature that, when you discover you've spewed bullshit, you can actually delete the comment! Isn't that so cool?!
I prefer not to pretend my mistakes didn't happen. Would it be better to put the edit above it? I don't want to erase the context for future readers, and I don't think leaving it up as is, with the edit, would cause any problems. I'm open to ideas
Maybe it’s just me. If i found out my comment was bullshit I’d just delete it.
I suppose you can use the tesseract front end and join his instance. I like well moderated spaces but I don’t appreciate lying to people about it and hiding what’s on the blacklist behind lies about compatibility errors. Can’t trust a guy like that.
If you want a nice polite little internet forum where no one talks politics and anyone who expresses a hostile opinion are suppressed why are you here instead of on reddit?
He has a special club. To join, you have to find a pair of dirty boots, then lick them clean.
Read the context and if anything, it made me want to use the app. Can't find it though, links are all dead.
/edit Yeah, that was a dumb take. Just heard about the script in his farewell message that would ddos am instance. Fuck that shit.
It's not an app, it's an alternative front-end e.g. you would access your existing account and instance via https://t.feddit.org/.
Your instance's sidebar text also mentions others too: Photon, Alexandrite, Next - I don't think I've ever heard of this one - and mlmym (old), apparently not aware that there is now a fork that took up maintenance.
Like the Lemmy back-end software, it is up to your instance admins to deploy and configure these alternative front-end UIs.
It's there but the instance I'm on already announced it'll shut it off due to the whole drama. Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Have you tried this one?
Do you know a good place to upload files? I'll upload it for you
anarchism means we are free to play the victim anytime we want
Why are you being such a whiny bitch about this? Are you his alt?
Yes