Why use something other than SystemD?
I'll admit I have used Artix, Peppermint OS (Devuan), and Void Linux because I thought the idea of a SystemDless distro sounded cool. It wasn't because I had a problem with SystemD. It's more so that I love that numerous options exist for different system components. For me it's sad to see that certain features or applications require SystemD be present. I like SystemD, just to be clear. I also like the freedom to choose. Maybe, i'm missing something. What do y'all think? What do you use and why? If you use OpenRC or something, why? I'm guessing most people use SystemD and don't give it any thought which is fair.
12 replies
Your hitting on the main complaint with systemD. Its not just controlling the run levels but integrates more and more things which goes against unix philosophy which ironically (because its stallmans baby) so does emacs.
Having different components is like having immunity to certain diseases.
The main practical reason to not use it is if you don't need it and have an environment or task that would benefit you going for something else.
A classic example is containers, if they do have an init system at all, it's usually not systemd but something much simpler, because the environment/task doesn't need it and there's a memory and storage benefit to not shipping the extra bulk
Void uses runit because they want to optimise for quick and lightweight without caring about wide compatibility, so that's a choice aligning with their philosophy.
its an absolutely terrible example. they literally had to reinvent the wheel (see sidecars) instead of just using what was already available and works fine. (see podman and its integration with systemd)
I more meant a classic example of a situation where someone wouldn't usually use systemd, even if there's nothing stopping it, that most people would be familiar with
I'm not talking about the merits of containers
Because Microsoft has back channel influence on systemd development^1^
It's fine now, but the future trajectory is locked into the path Android has followed - extending dominance over all widely used distributions, then gradually using that dominance to choke and extinguish any alternatives.
Additionally, I saw a site around 3 months ago that VIGOROUSLY documented the financial ties from amutable to Microsoft and Google. I have been looking for a good 20 minutes but can't find it. If this rings a bell for anyone that can remember more details please comment!
https://itsfoss.com/news/amutable-linux-security/
Boot time.
Fuck, now I wanna try Artix again.
For me it's many things, boot time not even a priority. This is not an invitation to challenge my personal grievances.
If i wanted a monolithic system half of which depends on a single service/library, I would use windows or macos. Basically, I'm trying to avoid vendor lock. I want to be able to replace almost any part of the system on a whim.
I don't care if some user process is not stopping gracefully, I just want to shut down my machine as fast as possible.
When I change a user's groups, I expect that a simple logout/login will be sufficient to apply them.
I want sensible defaults, and systemd has the opposite in my opinion. I don't want to spend hours trying to find one maybe existing setting in some unnecessary system service (which I did not want in my system in the first place but which is shipped in almost every distro) that will probably be deprecated in the next release and I will have to do it all over again.
From what I've seen on social media, systemd's developers and its fandom are insufferable assholes with a superiority complex.
And many many other small and not so small issues that pile up over time (and systemd developers/adopters help with this a lot) and lead to a burnout.
Right now I'm using void btw. And ironically I'm running elogind, which is systemd code. But it does one specific thing in this case and doesn't try to replace the whole os.
I don't have an opinion on the rest of what you said, but you're factually incorrect about systemd being "monolithic". It's a pluggable framework, very much the opposite of monolithic software.
Because as soon as there were hints about requiring OS age verification in some states they rushed to comply quicker than even Google or Microsoft
I suppose this should be solved now, but when I tried it, it used to hang at random with the "waiting for xyz service to finish" messages at boot time or when powering off. So I got fed and said yuck, went back to ol' good OpenRC and never ever had even a slight temptation to even look at systemd ever again.