Plenty of motorycles in this world with none of those things. You're telling me you need a roof, too? I used to ride mine to school in the snow and the rain. Uphill, both ways!
You need to haft it with an adamantium core shrouded in alfalfa straw as was passed down by the elders. The brush head should be made of the hair of it's brethren to inspire a proper amount of reverence and fear
I'm about as big a car enthusiast as a person can be. I've built everything, rock crawlers, drag cars, drift cars, and road race cars. I've had lowriders and lifted trucks. I've owned automatics, 4, 5, and 6 speed manuals, 3-speed column shift manuals, cvts, an electric car, and a push button shifted Chrysler imperial. I've driven cars, heavy machinery, boats, planes, and even a hovercraft one time.
While I love my manual cars, to say a person can't drive until they learn to operate a manual is one of the dumbest opinions I've ever heard.
This is kind of, by-definition, wrong, not just unpopular.
For the simple reason that even though I only tried to learn manual once, I can drive any electric car without issue.
Hell even before that, some people could drive trucks or buses or motorcycles, but not all people with driver's licenses could.
If we came up with a different word for driving other types of cars, then it would make sense. But we didn't, so driving just refers to the broad concept of operating various types of motor vehicles, usually at relatively high speed, but not exclusively.
And that's quite frankly because even without manually operating a clutch, driving is still a huge skillset that most people struggle to excel at.
I’ve driven both extensively and you know what? I’m down for an automatic transmission and turbo in city traffic. I’ll reconsider a manual if I move out to the sticks again.
I never drove a vehicle with automatic transmission, so I'd like struggle with it until I could finally make sense of how it works... But when it comes to manual transmission, every vehicle I once drove and am currently driving had/have manual transmission, with some brands having different ways to actuate the backward movement.
Also, besides two cars I once rented, practically all the vehicles I'm experienced at are old (before 2010, including having driven a very old VW Beetle sometimes). The two, "modern" cars I rented (Renault Kwid and Citroen C3) were awful to me, even though I'm quite young and accustomed to tech, those cars felt more like toys than actual cars (clutch isn't connected to the transmission and accelerator/gas isn't connected to the carburetor , pedals felt like a frickin joystick, car's starting engine isn't connected to the key system like in old cars, panel looks like a damn Christmas tree with all the blinking LEDs, every command is "decided" by the embedded computer).
Given how I'm totally unaware of how exactly an automatic transmission vehicle is supposed to be operated, am I also someone who "can't drive, only suggest/point a car"?
My old car suddenly lost first gear one day (seriously it was fine when I parked it one evening and from the next morning on it simply wouldn't shift into 1st, super weird and out of nowhere). Thankfully that car actually had decent lowend for an economy-box and I was able to daily it like that for another year or so. I can tell you now though that it would've been much tougher to deal with that had it happened to my current ride.
I haven't driven the newest vehicles, but you can have control over an automatic and where it shifts. And I'm not even talking about the shifting selector, but how you give it gas at certain points to trigger the shifting pattern. Do many people drive like that, probably not, but it's not the machine that determines the driver.
Your view is outdated, and will increasingly become entirely irrelevant as electric and hybrid vehicles continue to vastly outpace ICE production, if only because it entirely eliminates this silly elitism.
Sure pedal vroom (silently) go fast, but that wears out so quickly. The coordination to perfectly rev match, or pick the right gear is just so much fun. If Toyota actually brings that manual EV transmission to market then I’m in. But it needs the mechanical element to it.
Up voted because it's definitely against my opinion.
I can drive manual, have done for over twenty years. I now own an EV which doesn't have "gears". It's just a single clean line from standstill to top speed, no shifting necessary, manual nor automatic. Just press the gas and it goes.
I'm still driving. And I know how to drive manual, as I mentioned.
I'm just using other means now:
press pedal to go forward
release pedal to go slower/brake (*)
press buttons to (de)activate cruise control (CC)
press buttons to adjust CC speed
press buttons to adjust CC front car distance
keep track of CC deactivating if at a standstill for too long
keep track of CC not being able to activate until over 16 km/h
remember that using brake pedal deactivates CC so it needs to reactivate or you need to take control of the throttle manually
button to reactivate CC at old speed rather than setting new speed
button to activate CC at new speed rather than old speed after deactivation, if desired
button to switch between CC lane keeping assist and manual steering
(*): this is actually harder and requires more feeling and control, because you're not really brute-force braking as with the brake pedal — it's more akin to motor braking with a combustion engine. That's the feeling. So you have to know the timing to release the pedal, and how far to release it for braking as smooth as possible. And the muscle memory of "okay motor braking isn't enough here, gotta use the actual brake pedal". And this happens very rarely so it requires more cognitive overhead with these cars.
So it's actually a lot more shit to worry about and understand than in my previous, manual shift car.
Shifting is just a product of the engine. This new engine doesn't need it, so I'm not driving now?
Well, the transmission is just manual with 1 gear in an electric car.
I feel like that's maybe some slightly misleading nitpicking. 😄 There's no need for a gearbox at all, the electric motor just delivers power and torque smoothly across the whole range of speed, so there's no shifting whatsoever. 👍
I'm never buying an auto ICE car.
What exactly is an "auto ICE car", for the uninitiated (me)? 🙏
I feel like that's maybe some slightly misleading nitpicking. 😄 There's no need for a gearbox at all, the electric motor just delivers power and torque smoothly across the whole range of speed, so there's no shifting _whatsoever_. 👍
Yes, that's kinda the same thing. I just tried to say that that's why I'm fine with electric cars but not automatics. I wouldn't be able to stand not having control over what gear I'm in, but if there's always torque available, it's fine.
That's the thing with automatic ICE cars, you mostly don't need to control which gear you're in.
If you pass the gas pedal deeply enough, it will shift down automatically to provide the required/requested torque, e.g. when making a pass around a car on the motorway.
They also have gear modes that limit the upper gear to first, second, third, etc, so you can tow stuff, or get out of a ditch, or snow, e.g.
Auto cars are so comfortable, honestly. You just press the pedal and that's it. If you need control on the off chance, it's also still available in different ways. 👍
When driving stick I engine brake for most of the time I’m decelerating. If I need more brake I downshift, less brake up shift.
Actually I do the same in my automatic. My drive to work isn’t prone to random traffic jams so I have enough time to engine brake for most of the drive. Just sub 15mph when I have to actually brake. I’ve actually learned how much I need to press the brake pedal to turn on the lights without actually braking.
Same actually. Rarely did I use the brake on my automatic unless I actually wanted to come to a halt. Same with manual, with the addition of decelerating for a turn off a highway and such rapid changes in direction. 👍 Eco driving!
More satisfying in my personal opinion. 🙂 The driving is so unbelievably smooth with an EV, if you want it to be. It can also be more "revvy" than a combustion engine car (the electric motors are stronger, so faster acceleration).
It's a sweet deal if you care about driving comfort. 🤩
If you think shifting gears is an important part of driving you are, most likely, a shitty driver. I put as much attention on the stick as I put on my pinky toe when I'm walking, I do use it but my attention is in not tripping with any obstacle, not bumping into someone, not stepping on a dog shit... I barely notice what I do with them unless something's wrong, the toe's hurting or the transmission acting up.
Driving manual isn't that special, over here in Europe everybody do it, literal children, grandmas over a hundred years old, people with mental disabilities...
I think that manual transmissions still have some advantages in some cases, but I have an automatic since half a year ago (my only prior experience was one week in the States with a rented car) and I prefer it, the same car in manual was also available and it was cheaper. Zero regrets. After a hard day of work, not having to do leg series with the clutch in the traffic jams is just objectively better.
69 replies
If you don’t push your vehicle with your own physical strength, you can only suggest/“point” a car
Fred Flintstone may have been an asshole.....but he sure knew how to drive!
I like you :)
Look at this amateur with power steering, automatic choke, and an electric starter.
Plenty of motorycles in this world with none of those things. You're telling me you need a roof, too? I used to ride mine to school in the snow and the rain. Uphill, both ways!
and doors
If you’ve never used a hand crank to turn the engine over, you’ve never really started a car.
I mean- technically this is 100% true and I'm on board
Manual transmission is the norm outside of the US
Not an unpopular opinion, just gatekeeping.
yup. have driven rx7's and vw bugs, it takes a certain set of skills but it's nothing to be insulting about.
good luck with your clutch replacement dudes lol
If your car is not drawn by animals, you are not driving it. You might be piloting or controlling it, but not driving it.
I don't see the problem.
For those conveyances, I believe a bit of fermentation is required. Spicy writing utensils, as it were
The cow keeps dropping the damn pencils IDK how you guys do this.
You need to haft it with an adamantium core shrouded in alfalfa straw as was passed down by the elders. The brush head should be made of the hair of it's brethren to inspire a proper amount of reverence and fear
Pfft, amateur.
If you can't manually adjust ignition timing and air:fuel ratios you can't really drive a car.
Are we talking points, HEI, or injection? I don't often have my laptop with me for the latter.
Early cars had controls for ignition timing, sometimes on the steering column.
Yes, they did! My grandfather's Ford did. I thought it was throttle when I was young because it made the engine sound change!
I daily a manual and this is a braindead take
Oh, we’re gatekeeping driving?
No, and if you learn manual, you'll know what we mean!
Ill upvote since the amish feel if you don't use a harness you are just letting a machine drive.
If you can't shift gears faster than 120ms you're inferior to the automatic already.
You think f1 drivers are fucking around with a clutch? Get off your horse and realize everyone and their half siblings have moved on.
This is from a crusty guy who taught many a fine lady how to drive the ol stick shift. That was such a great pickup line.
F1 doesn't use torque converted automatics or CVTs. They use much faster transmissions.
I don't see where that was stated at all, just automatic.
And DCTs are definitely automatics.
There are other forms of automatic besides torque-converter based systems, even in the 50's.
Try buying a cheap used car with a DCT. Most are CVTs or old school regular autos (which are both apparently slow).
But if you can get one for a normal price, it's kinda fine if you value convenience over control.
But I'll probably not try an auto until my old golf dies.
I thought F1 used sequential transmissions.
Driving has to involve a clutch? I'm very confused by this. Manual driver btw.
Gatekeepers be keepin gates.
You are absolutely allowed to money shift, rev-match "slot" your gears, anything you like. If you can handle the stick you have my respect.
I'm about as big a car enthusiast as a person can be. I've built everything, rock crawlers, drag cars, drift cars, and road race cars. I've had lowriders and lifted trucks. I've owned automatics, 4, 5, and 6 speed manuals, 3-speed column shift manuals, cvts, an electric car, and a push button shifted Chrysler imperial. I've driven cars, heavy machinery, boats, planes, and even a hovercraft one time.
While I love my manual cars, to say a person can't drive until they learn to operate a manual is one of the dumbest opinions I've ever heard.
You know it was posted to "unpopular opinions", yes?
It's not that it's unpopular, it's that it's objectively dumb.
Its actually not that unpopular of an opinion in car communities, it's just a really stupid one held by stupid people.
And now it has been called a dumb opinion, too
This is kind of, by-definition, wrong, not just unpopular.
For the simple reason that even though I only tried to learn manual once, I can drive any electric car without issue.
Hell even before that, some people could drive trucks or buses or motorcycles, but not all people with driver's licenses could.
If we came up with a different word for driving other types of cars, then it would make sense. But we didn't, so driving just refers to the broad concept of operating various types of motor vehicles, usually at relatively high speed, but not exclusively.
And that's quite frankly because even without manually operating a clutch, driving is still a huge skillset that most people struggle to excel at.
If you've only ever operated fuel-injected vehicles then you don't really know how to start a car
Thumps pedal three times, turns key with 10% throttle
I’ve driven both extensively and you know what? I’m down for an automatic transmission and turbo in city traffic. I’ll reconsider a manual if I move out to the sticks again.
I drove a manual for a long commute for years. Developed sciatica as a result.
Where is this unpopular, America? That's just a fact.
You kids and your horseless carriages
I never drove a vehicle with automatic transmission, so I'd like struggle with it until I could finally make sense of how it works... But when it comes to manual transmission, every vehicle I once drove and am currently driving had/have manual transmission, with some brands having different ways to actuate the backward movement.
Also, besides two cars I once rented, practically all the vehicles I'm experienced at are old (before 2010, including having driven a very old VW Beetle sometimes). The two, "modern" cars I rented (Renault Kwid and Citroen C3) were awful to me, even though I'm quite young and accustomed to tech, those cars felt more like toys than actual cars (clutch isn't connected to the transmission and accelerator/gas isn't connected to the carburetor , pedals felt like a frickin joystick, car's starting engine isn't connected to the key system like in old cars, panel looks like a damn Christmas tree with all the blinking LEDs, every command is "decided" by the embedded computer).
Given how I'm totally unaware of how exactly an automatic transmission vehicle is supposed to be operated, am I also someone who "can't drive, only suggest/point a car"?
[email protected]
Just for kicks I'll throw in my unpopular opinion: "If you have to use 1st gear then you don't know how to drive manual"
Probably still use the clutch though right rookie?
Rev match gang!
This one depends a lot on the gearing. Most cars you can start in 2nd gear but there are some where it kinda falls apart
A Hyundai Excel can start in 5th. You shouldn't, it's bad, but it works.
My old car suddenly lost first gear one day (seriously it was fine when I parked it one evening and from the next morning on it simply wouldn't shift into 1st, super weird and out of nowhere). Thankfully that car actually had decent lowend for an economy-box and I was able to daily it like that for another year or so. I can tell you now though that it would've been much tougher to deal with that had it happened to my current ride.
That gets trough technical? Or are you in a country where they don't do that?
The second one
I haven't driven the newest vehicles, but you can have control over an automatic and where it shifts. And I'm not even talking about the shifting selector, but how you give it gas at certain points to trigger the shifting pattern. Do many people drive like that, probably not, but it's not the machine that determines the driver.
Call me the car whisperer, then! 😅
Your view is outdated, and will increasingly become entirely irrelevant as electric and hybrid vehicles continue to vastly outpace ICE production, if only because it entirely eliminates this silly elitism.
And a lot of the fun.
Sure pedal vroom (silently) go fast, but that wears out so quickly. The coordination to perfectly rev match, or pick the right gear is just so much fun. If Toyota actually brings that manual EV transmission to market then I’m in. But it needs the mechanical element to it.
Up voted because it's definitely against my opinion.
I can drive manual, have done for over twenty years. I now own an EV which doesn't have "gears". It's just a single clean line from standstill to top speed, no shifting necessary, manual nor automatic. Just press the gas and it goes.
I'm still driving. And I know how to drive manual, as I mentioned.
I'm just using other means now:
(*): this is actually harder and requires more feeling and control, because you're not really brute-force braking as with the brake pedal — it's more akin to motor braking with a combustion engine. That's the feeling. So you have to know the timing to release the pedal, and how far to release it for braking as smooth as possible. And the muscle memory of "okay motor braking isn't enough here, gotta use the actual brake pedal". And this happens very rarely so it requires more cognitive overhead with these cars.
So it's actually a lot more shit to worry about and understand than in my previous, manual shift car.
Shifting is just a product of the engine. This new engine doesn't need it, so I'm not driving now?
Bullshit. 😉
Well, the transmission is just manual with 1 gear in an electric car. I'm cool with electric cars with an "auto" but I'm never buying an auto ICE car.
I feel like that's maybe some slightly misleading nitpicking. 😄 There's no need for a gearbox at all, the electric motor just delivers power and torque smoothly across the whole range of speed, so there's no shifting whatsoever. 👍
What exactly is an "auto ICE car", for the uninitiated (me)? 🙏
Yes, that's kinda the same thing. I just tried to say that that's why I'm fine with electric cars but not automatics. I wouldn't be able to stand not having control over what gear I'm in, but if there's always torque available, it's fine.
Automatic internal combustion engine car.
That's the thing with automatic ICE cars, you mostly don't need to control which gear you're in.
If you pass the gas pedal deeply enough, it will shift down automatically to provide the required/requested torque, e.g. when making a pass around a car on the motorway.
They also have gear modes that limit the upper gear to first, second, third, etc, so you can tow stuff, or get out of a ditch, or snow, e.g.
Auto cars are so comfortable, honestly. You just press the pedal and that's it. If you need control on the off chance, it's also still available in different ways. 👍
When driving stick I engine brake for most of the time I’m decelerating. If I need more brake I downshift, less brake up shift.
Actually I do the same in my automatic. My drive to work isn’t prone to random traffic jams so I have enough time to engine brake for most of the drive. Just sub 15mph when I have to actually brake. I’ve actually learned how much I need to press the brake pedal to turn on the lights without actually braking.
Same actually. Rarely did I use the brake on my automatic unless I actually wanted to come to a halt. Same with manual, with the addition of decelerating for a turn off a highway and such rapid changes in direction. 👍 Eco driving!
Is it as satisfying as dropping to 3rd on the highway though? Iono, man. Feels pretty good!
More satisfying in my personal opinion. 🙂 The driving is so unbelievably smooth with an EV, if you want it to be. It can also be more "revvy" than a combustion engine car (the electric motors are stronger, so faster acceleration).
It's a sweet deal if you care about driving comfort. 🤩
If you think shifting gears is an important part of driving you are, most likely, a shitty driver. I put as much attention on the stick as I put on my pinky toe when I'm walking, I do use it but my attention is in not tripping with any obstacle, not bumping into someone, not stepping on a dog shit... I barely notice what I do with them unless something's wrong, the toe's hurting or the transmission acting up.
Driving manual isn't that special, over here in Europe everybody do it, literal children, grandmas over a hundred years old, people with mental disabilities...
I think that manual transmissions still have some advantages in some cases, but I have an automatic since half a year ago (my only prior experience was one week in the States with a rented car) and I prefer it, the same car in manual was also available and it was cheaper. Zero regrets. After a hard day of work, not having to do leg series with the clutch in the traffic jams is just objectively better.