How To Opt Out Of Your Car’s Surveillance State (Before It’s Too Late)
Modern cars are spy hubs on wheels, tracking your location, conversations, and behavior.
https://www.carsandhorsepower.com/featured/how-to-opt-out-of-your-car-s-surveillance-state-before-it-s-too-lateOpen linkView original on discuss.tchncs.de
87 replies
Just don’t buy a new car. Simple as.
That's not going to be a choice forever though. Even the best maintained cars eventually fail.
Can't you get older car rebuilt into electric? Seems like it could give it some more years. Correct me if I am wrong tho, I am not great at cars lol
Sure, but IIRC, there's a federal law requiring certain devices to be included in a new car. That probably doesn't include a rebuild, but it could if that becomes a popular enough option to avoid it. It's also usually quite expensive.
Would hope for EU to not have these laws, but I feel like that would be too much hope
The EU seems to being going full steam on destroying privacy too, so I wouldn't bet on it.
Unfortunately yeah... I believe they are talking about reviving Chat Control 1.0 today... Once again
The institution can propose the unpopular policy more times than a population unable or unwilling to alter the institution can smack it down.
Yeah and even if someone is just making barebones frames for kit builds, I think there are legal limits on the number of kit cars that a single shop can do in a year. But those are corporate protectionist laws that we should probably get rid of.
A lot of states dont have inspections anymore. How would they know if I converted an old car to an EV?
For $50,000 ...then you get an old car no one can fix.
Not quite that much in most cases, but yes a good electric conversion is always in the 5 digits. My old Ranger would be $20K in today's dollars to full convert, if done professionally and correctly. And there's enough rust problems with a frame from the early 90s that you question if something like that is worth it in the long run.
Some companies do offer this for a quite hefty price.
Heftier than a new car?
I looked at it at one point (quite a while back) and yes, it was more than a new car usually. It alone was about the price of a new car, like $30k IIRC (again, many years ago I think pre-covid even). You also need to include the car, so add a few thousand, or more depending on the car.
Closer to $50K. It's a lot of specialized labor and those shops charge $200/hr.
Considering there aren’t any new cars I want and the average price of one is about that much it sounds good to me.
If I already have a car I like that sounds like an awesome deal.
Yeah, it's definitely something to look into. It's not a bad deal at least. It just costs a lot because it's mostly unique work for a single vehicle, rather than a factory pumping out the same one over and over.
Then I’ll get a horse.
That's a whole new ethical dilemma, ride a bike!
Will a bike walk me home after a night of drinking? I think not.
Drunk Japanese businessmen have been known to steal unlocked mamacharis to get home, returning them the next day with an apology note.
horses are expensive to upkeep too, even more so than cars.
My 2010 Honda is trucking along but I wanted to upgrade to a hybrid... Fat chance of that happening.
Now I'll ride this one until it dies.
So will I. I hope to time it just right.
Then we build them ourselves. Capitulation is not inevitable.
I'm not saying to capitulate, but building them yourself is not an option. First, they need to meet certain regulations. Most homemade vehicles can't. Second, there's already a federal law (maybe a bill) in the US that says some of these systems are required for new vehicles, IIRC. It does not make an exception for homemade vehicles. Maybe they can be disabled, but still technically in the vehicle?
Or americans can grow a spine and stand up to this overreaching bullshit. Stating there is a law and nothing can be done is american capitulation. You ether roll over or fight this sort of stuff, but if you roll over you don't get to sit on a high horse.
People have been making stuff since stuff was made, or do you think everything ever was made from a company's factory? This "nothing can be done" shit has gotten to such a degree of putting the boot on your own neck that you are saying its not possible for people to make a motor vehicle without backing.
If people did make there own cars (or more likely use old frames) and did not put spy tech into their own stuff what's the government's recourse? Enforcement at this degree is not possible, hell you americans hardly have a rule of law left.
The first paragraph is not really relevant to this thread. Yes, people should be fighting back. Sure. Things are happening regardless though.
Making things to function at home is great! We should do more of that, and more FOSS. However, driving on a public road requires that you meet certain conditions. You can't just throw a lawnmower engine on a set of wheels and call that enough. Yes, it'd drive, but it wouldn't be legal. There are many types of vehicle that function that are not road legal. It is possible to meet those requirements with something built at home, but it requires serious technical knowledge, skill, and equipment. It also still has to conform to state and federal regulations.
Also, I agree with this, assuming it isn't abused. I'm an Anarchist, but even I see the need to regulate vehicles people should be allowed to drive. We're driving tons of steel at each other at high speed, just inches apart. You're subjecting others to the danger you create. If your car breaks and swerves into incoming traffic at 60mph, that isn't something the other party willingly consented to. It is the government's role to protect people from harm. We go too far usually, but it needs to exist. I don't want to be on the road where a bunch of homemade junk that hasn't been regulated is driving around.
Regulating a car to spy and make actions based on that spying is not a valid regulation outside of a nightmare.
And no it is not the government's role is to protect people from harm, this is "think of the children" sort of shit that leads to bad law. Ether we are responsible for our actions or are under control. I don't want to share the road with these new vehicles but apparently have no say, this nonsense is why we all get to live in clown world.
The single greatest safety invention in automobiles by reduced death and injury was the collapsible steering column, everything since has had diminishing returns. In the last 10 years we have seen auto accidents increase (lots of pedestrian strikes) due to stupid new vehicle design. Yet we don't see the demand that new stuff is pulled from the road, instead we see the demand for new rules putting more bad ideas in. This is and never had been about safety.
Obviously. I'm pretty sure I stated that. Regulations are needed though, so people making shitty cars in their garage is not a reasonable expectation. It's just like I don't expect people to build their own graphics cards on their own. Is it possible? Sure. Is it feasible? Hell no.
Ok, I'll throw you a softball. Let's say there's a corporation that wants to use your labor, but doesn't want to pay you. They buy up all the housing in the area, and all the stores, and they refuse to allow you to buy food or shelter unless you give them your labor, and they'll give you a credit that you can only use at their stores. That's bad, right? The government should be there to protect the people from this exploitation, right? If not, the people end up with no freedom.
Again, it should be limited, but it is necessary.
Some of it has. You can watch vehicle safety tests and see the improvement. Crumple zones, for example, are pretty great. I agree though, the new designs should be regulated to be less likely to kill pedestrians. Front ends should not be allowed to be that high or flat, like they are now. Do you not agree? Sure, this isn't being done right now, but you would agree with it being done, right?
Physically disconnecting the broadband antenna is always a solid option too
For as long as they let you. Watch, soon they'll be required to connect to the network at least every 30 days to function.
so you splice a switch into the antenna wire.
They can't require connectivity or all cars would stop in tunnels.
You make switching RF sound easier than it is, but this is quite possibly the solution.
That or taking the train, but those have their own problems (including not being available in all places).
I have seriously thought about doing this. I believe if your car is stolen, your insurance will not pay out if you have disconnected the antenna. It's probably not enough to stop me from disconnecting the antenna, but it's infuriating how much the whole system works against privacy.
Don't buy it
I'll make the guess our next reply is "what if it's every car!?"
It won't be. Buy
usedproven.Nope. I'll just upload your data when the mechanic plugs into the computer
I guess if you write this enough times it becomes true. How much data do you think a control module stores?
Probably more than 30 years?
What data exactly is it going to upload? There's a finite amount of data that can store and I'd imagine with the chip/storage costs on the rise no manufacturer is going to be using a larger onboard storage device. They're all too damn cheap for that
GPS coordinates and timestamps. Metadata from biometric photos. Your sexual habits from the seat cushion sensors (this is in their own privacy policy)
A large part of their income is selling this data to police (or anyone who pays the data brokers, really). It's cheap to store and it would be stupid for them not to.
I want to have my cake and eat it too, though (privacy plus electric).
I'm looking at the new electric Slate pickup. As far as I can tell, this is the one EV that might not spy on us.
I already made my deposit.
Burning fossil fuels is not acceptable
It may surprise you, but even older cars can be refitted with an electric engine. It isn't very cheap, but there's no surveillance there.
It can be relatively cheap if you dont care about having an extreme range. I know someone who turned an old beetle electric, and it just runs off of ~10 lead acid batteries if i remember right. Not a huge range, but enough to go to work and get groceries.
My dad used to have a bunch of old Mother Earth News magazines and electric conversion kits were advertised in all of them.
An electric engine is called a motor
Drama queens here...you can unplug the antenna on any car. No need to McGuyer/A-Team it.
Cars break air gaps at the mechanic when they plug into the computer.
This doesn't work
You going to a mechanic every day? Stop buying GM.
I don't own a car, partially because this issue doesn't (yet) have a solution
Big, ugly, expensive cars that I can’t fix myself with tracking software and touch screens are unacceptable.
Besides, I’ll get more horsepower from E100 and if it’s a diesel I can use fry oil.
You're advocating for mass extinction
I have never bought a car, why should me not buying a new car lead to mass extinction?
You best start believing in mass extinctions: We’re in one.
This article may be at least partially ai written - this paragraph under number 7 in particular is quite suspicious:
"For extra paranoia, some owners store their entire car in a Faraday garage or use signal-blocking paint—extreme, but effective."
Em dash!
I miss being able to use those. Alt+0151 is dead.
I can maybe see a garage, but ruining your paint? Where do you get this paint, how much does it cost, do you “do it right” by properly prepping and masking, how do you maintain this finish, and do you truly not care about resale value?
I’m sure somebody has done this somewhere, but I can’t imagine it looks better than matte-black rattlecanned shitbox. Nobody really wants to be driving around in that.
You paint the garage, you cucumber.
Hey, they aren't a cucumber, they are a car.
The antenna is under the shark fin and can be unplugged from under the roof liner.
Probably just a regular paint with metal flakes, but calling faraday cage paint makes it fancy.
Also probably doesn't work very well unless you stretch a copper mesh onto the car under the paint
You do realize that it's possible to get a professional quality after market paint job, right? I'm not confident in the effectiveness of such a paint, especially when it would be easier and more effective to just fuck with the antenna directly (and paint would affect anything in the car also if it does block signals effectively), but custom paint jobs can increase the resale value even without stopping the spying shit. And personally, I'd be willing to spend more on a car where that shit has been disabled, even if the paint job looked shitty.
Got a 1987 Pontiac Firebird.
But all my t-shirts have sleeves.
All t-shirts have sleeves. By definition.
Just like all chaps are assless.
Just don't buy a car.
It is very funny that this article seems to be under the impression that opting out does anything at all.
Oooooo, maybe now they don't save your data under your legal ID directly. One time connection with your phone and they know your fingerprint that is already linked with an identity lol.
Opt-out is the biggest lie in the tech world.
My job has a big marketing department, and I'm part of it.
Opting out does opt you out of a few things, like marketing emails.
But we definitely always still store your data. So yeah, it's a pretty big lie and all very legal unfortunately. It's sucks.
Not in the EU.
Too bad most mega corporations are based in the US so they will take the risk of a slap on the wrist from a foreign entity to keep valuable advertising data for millions of people in a different country outside of their jurisdiction.
Those regulations discourage small companies doing those bad practices, they aren't proportional to revenue so are just the cost of doing business for almost trillion euro companies.
Wanna get rich? Make a metal cover for auto shark fins.
Cover these and no one is getting data.
Don't know about getting rich with that. Most car owners don't really care. Surprise.
That's what marketing does. Create demand. Get Youtube makeup influencers to tell their audience cars track your body weight through the airbag sensor.
If an older internal combustion engine car with only a dashboard radio is not an option, then a bicycle.
I will not drive any combustion vehicle newer then 2008, and before people tell me that is too old its that or not drive. A line must be drawn, limits expressed and principals kept.