China says it has a right to target people overseas with new ethnic unity law, Reuters reports
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/china-says-target-people-overseas-062038094.html?ncid=redditnewsusOpen linkView original on lemy.lol
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/china-says-target-people-overseas-062038094.html?ncid=redditnewsusOpen linkView original on lemy.lol
Hello Chinese state-actors, I hope this message finds you well: Free Tibet! Free the Uyghurs! Taiwan is a sovereign state! The nine dashed line is bullshit! China is a capitalist fascist state!
If only we could @[email protected] & @[email protected]
Hear, hear!
State sovereignty is nonsense. Rather, it is the Taiwanese people who are sovereign.
Absolutely agree. More I said that because it explicitly pisses off the CCP.
Even Taiwan doesn't claim to be a sovereign state. China doesn't claim the nine dashed line but Taiwan officially still does.
Possibly related: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/06/18/france-shuts-down-clandestine-chinese-police-stations-operating-on-its-territory_6754608_7.html
Definitely related
Fuck you FREE TIBET. TAWAIN NUMBER 1.
China’s New “Ethnic Unity Law” Codifies Genocide, as one right group says.
It's the law of the jungle with Chinese characteristics.
The US also has this law. So does the UK, and France, and Germany, and Italy. Even Turkey has a variance of this law.
bunch of white supremecist states and turkey, a fascist dictatorship. doesn't make this acceptable
So to be clear, you believe that no country should ever attempt to arrest people that are illegally spreading misinformation directly to sow racial division, arming malcontent separatists, and funneling money towards extremists specifically so they commit terror acts and specifically so they can sow racial discontent and separatist movements?
I know anarchists are a bit on the naive side of the spectrum and historically haven't exactly been victims, but one would think you'd pay some attention to how your enemy actually operates and why your movement will always fail if you do not have plans in place against these tactics.
No, I do not believe this. But moreover, I do not think this is what this law does, in function. The bigger issue here, to me, is that China is declaring that they have the right to enforce Chinese law outside of China. While States (capital S intentional) and borders are intrinsically bullshit, the idea of one State enforcing compliance on people living outside of that State is a nightmare scenario. I think there are more effective ways to counter misinformation than what is being proposed here. One of the biggest things they could do is address structural issues within the China that have established a hegemonic racial hierarchy in which some people receive preferential treatment from the state and others have to fight to maintain their cultural identity and language. In particular Blang, Nu, Gelao, Yi, Achang, Daur, Fuyu Kyrgyz, and Ili Turkic people face total cultural erasure. These cultural traditions need not be erased for a Marxist eutopia to be achieved. In fact, these people demand our solidarity with them in order for any of us to be able to achieve a positive pro-social outcome for any of our societies. When Marx wrote about international solidarity, this was the sort of thing he meant. We cannot claim to have class consciousness if we erase some people's cultural identifiers in service of some hypothetical positive outcome.
I've been talking to some of my Cambodian friends recently, and something struck me. I tend to think of colonization as being predominantly a process by which one population erases another in order to steal their resources. They all talk about colonization in terms of one population stealing another's resources with the predominant aim of erasing their culture through homogenization. It's still something I'm processing and working through, but I think it's something we should all take into consideration as we combat colonization.
You "know" this and yet I perceive things like what you're saying to be naive. This is something we'll have simply disagree with because I think our perspectives are completely irreconcilable. We are looking at the same set of problems and seeing a different set of root causes and actions to take based on that.
This though I'll need to push back on. In my country identifying as an anarchist is considered reason to have your citizenship revoked if you hold dual citizenship or are naturalized. Anarchists in Israel do not receive due process, the act of identifying as an anarchist is considered to be an act of terrorism that is met with being shot on sight. Mikhail Bakunin spent 2 years in solitary confinement after being sentenced to death before being imprisoned for another 3 years before being exiled to Siberia for 5 years (which he escaped, not released). Ukrainian and Russian anarchists who supported the reds against the whites were ultimately crushed and largely put to death after the Russian civil war. Spanish anarchists in the 1930s faced persecution from both forces supported by Italian and German fascists in Franco and Soviet forces supported by Stalin. Rojava was destroyed by forces supported by both Turkey and Russia just earlier this year. The US national guard and police forces have bombed multiple anarchist workers' movements throughout Appalachia and the Pacific Northwest.
Yet still we organize under these principals. For me, it's because I've known the pain of being hungry. I've known the anxiety of being homeless. Many of my friends and allies are the same. We know what it means to experience poverty, and we know the value of community supporting each other. So we spend our time building a coalition of allies that can resist and defy the state because for us this is a matter of life and death. I think your analysis of anarchists is at least a little reductive, however my read on this is that it's not coming from a place of malice. I just ask that you meet and talk to some anarchists, and consider adding some anarchist theory to your reading. Whether you add any of that to your praxis is of course up to you (since the ultimate Anarchist philosophy is that no one is more equipped to determine what is best for someone's self determination than them).
I do. Which is why I'm skeptical about this situation and its positive benefit for the people. I'll be thrilled if it turns out I'm wrong, but if my country was passing a law like this I'd be fucking horrified.
I'm probably in a minority here as I do support a large amount of what the CCP represents and their overall goals. However, I do wish that they would reflect more upon Mao and Deng Xiaoping's criticism of Han chauvinism.
I think a lot of the valid criticisms against the modern CCP stem from Han chauvinism that feeds the ethnic nationalism and the greater ethnic conflict that are endemic to East Asia.
This is the opposite of Han Chauvinism, which should make you happy then. This is specifically targeted at destroying international campaigns and actors that pretend "Chinese" means Han chinese. The entire and total perspective of that chinese state is that anyone in what has been traditionally held as China is chinese. Since it's a national "ethnicity" (the word really doesn't translate to that, it's closer to identity, but since the article used ethnicity...)
This order specifically supports that idea, reinforces the One China ideology that has been the official policy for the entire time you have been alive, and helps fight intrachinese racism.
This is aimed at targeting international campaigns and actors that are trying to engage in ethnic based separatism movements. I don't think I heard of these types of characters trying to conflate all Chinese as Han Chinese, that's kind of counter intuitive.
My issue is that Han chauvinism has led to systemic inequalities for minority ethnicities, which gives fuel to separatist movements.
Also known as nationality...
The one China policy mainly has to do Taiwan, which is also predominantly inhabited by Han Chinese/"Taiwanese" nationals.....
This order isn't made to fight intra-Chinese racism (Chinese is not a race), it's made to limit criticism and incitement of ethnic conflicts happening within China.
Which if they were more proactive about getting rid of the systemic inequalities levied by the state, wouldn't be as large of an issue to begin with.
Correct... that's what I said. You brought up Han Chauvinism, which this helps combat as well by treating all Chinese as equal and quashing international actors attempting to separate Chinese minorities, which causes Han Chauvinism.
Hence them passing this, to stop international actors fueling the separatist movements.
Incorrect. That is the US "One China" policy. The actual One China policy includes Inner Mongolia, Tibet, Xinjiang, as well as Taiwan. As they are all Chinese provinces.
The inequalities aren't levied by the state. In fact the state goes through almost comically expensive lengths to provide equity to all minorities. It just gets called "cultural erasure" by the people this move is targeting; i.e.
Xinjiang: All local languages are taught according to the majority culture in the area, this is Uyghur in places like Ürümqi, and Xibe within the Qapqal region; this also includes cultural studies for each minority cultural group. Mandarin is just now being required which is being treated as "cultural erasure," but is the exact proactive measure you're talking about.
Tibet: Tibetan is taught and non-Tibetan Buddhist culture is taught (because child sex slavery is bad, and that's just what Tibetan Buddhism is), along side Mandarin.
And Inner Mongolia actually has a partnership with Mongolia to help unify the Mongolian languages taught across the greater region and help teach the history of the region in a healthy way.
The main "inequality levied by the state" for the longest time was simply not spending as much money on remote areas as they were in the majority populated areas, resulting in a generation of minorities that mostly had to teach Mandarin to themselves to deal with the government. This is being corrected now that there is a strict, specific checklist China uses for development of regions.
You have that backwards..... This is trying to combat the negative outcomes of Han chauvinism without addressing the root cause. You can't just solve the problem by declaring all ethnicities are the same and then do nothing to address the systemic inequalities.
Han chauvinism isn't caused by minority separatism, minority separatism is a response to han supremacy. This would be like saying that black nationalist in America are the cause of American white supremacy.
You do realize you are claiming that international actors are responsible for han chauvinism...... How does this make sense?
That is the One China principal, which is the CCPs internal policy of sovereignty, which is still mainly aimed at national sovereignty and not ethnic principles. This was a response to the KMTs claim over mainland China, and doesn't really mention ethnic conflict.
All the example you gave ignore the systemic inequalities, and only focus on cultural exchange. That would be like saying the US solved their systemic racism because they celebrate Juneteenth and have a black history month.
Ethnic minorities still experience income, educational , and health inequalities even when taking account of spatial inequalities. When we disregard spatial inequality and examine ethnic demographics within the autonomous zone, the Inequalities are even more stark.
Imo, this is due to the lack of minority representation in the higher government. In the current 24 person politburo, all representatives are older men of han descendent. Historically there have only been 3 ethnic minorities to ever serve in the politburo, going back to the 1950's, and none of which have ever made it to the standing committee. As far as regional representation for the five ethnic minority autonomous provinces (the Tibetan Autonomous Region, the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, and the Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region), the region's top post of party secretary has been given to a Han Chinese over the past 35 years.
No, I am claiming the US has an extensive history of specifically using racial tensions and prexisting cultural biases to foment destablizing revolutionary behavior in extreme minority view populations.
The US has spent no less than 30 billion dollars on exactly this. This is literally the exclusive reason for the great firewall. To stop US psyops.
The entire 'East Turkestan' movement is a US-led movement meant to destablize china. The terror attacks, everything, was caused by the US. It's literally the CIA playbook, this isn't even controversial information.
Okay so at least you're slightly better than most liberals here, to be clear China has spent $15 billion USD in xinjian since the early 2000s US-led terror attacks specifically to quash this disparity and the recent massive multi-tens-of-billions investment in education (not cultural exchange) that I listed is a part of that movement to erase that inequality mostly caused by rurality, not minority. As a counter example the Yue people are a minority, they have no significant disparity with the Han ethnicities (of which there are over 90 recognized).
I'm not saying China's not perfect, or that Han Chauvinism isn't real.
I am saying this order is to directly combat US covert and overt operations using malcontent extremist minority groups that have directly and provably caused terror attacks and have worked to dismantle Chinese Unity attempts. This requires issuing arrest warrants for foreign and formerly domestic adversaries in the East Turkestan movement, for instance, and working to arrest them. Which this law provides the ability to do.
As a side note, pretending, for some reason, that the US does not have a ridiculously long history of attacking sovereign countries like this when you are currently still at war with Iran is insane btw. The US did this in Iran in the 1970s. and 1960s, and 1990s, and 2000s, and literally 3 months before this war, according to Trump.
The US government takes advantage of ethnic tension and foments it for political gain, however they are not responsible for the tension existing in the first place. Ethnic conflict in China predates the United states existence. The concept of modern han chauvinism was internally criticized by Mao himself.
Again.... My point was that these types of propaganda campaigns are only effective because there are still systemic ethnic inequalities within China.
First of all, I am a socialist who was raised by an asian immigrant who had to leave their country because they were a socialist. Calling me a liberal is an insult to my family's honor.
Secondly most of that funding has gone to benefit ethnic Han who have migrated to the urbanized areas of Xijiang, which in turn has forced more of the minority population into the rural areas of the autonomous zone.
The studies I linked accounts for disparity between rural and urbanized areas of China. Even when accounting for spatial disparity economic stratification for ethnic minority groups is increasing in education, healthcare, and income.
Are you talking about the Baiyue people? That ethnic group was assimilated during the qin and han empire. It's no longer an actual ethnic group, though there are some theories that the boat people from Hong Kong are distantly related to them.
And I started out by explaining that Han chauvinism is the reason propaganda programs like the ones the US is utilizing is why they could gain popularity in the first place. I never said the US isn't taking advantage of the situation, just that the ethnic disparity is why it's effective.
When did I say they weren't running propaganda campaigns?
You are making a lot of assumptions based on one accurate criticism I have about the CCP. You've mostly been arguing against claims I've never made despite the fact that I started this conversation stating that I support the vast majority of the goals and policies of the CCP. You would think that someone with marx in their user name wouldn't be so knee jerkingly adverse to self criticism.