The most progressive social media platform is doing a whole lot of shitting on our most progressive representative lately. I'm sure it's all totally organic.
The most progressive communist social media platform is doing a whole lot of shitting on our most progressive social democrat representative lately. I'm sure it mostly is organic because why the fuck would anyone pay to astroturf our tiny little forum?
LMAO you don't think this platform is astroturfed? You think astroturfing is done by real people paid a salary? Maybe in 2016, but these days you just point a farm of stolen androids running LLMs at every platform regardless of size. I guarantee the fediverse is not only a huge target, but the tech stack also allows for the easy siphoning of data, so I can also guarantee there's massive profiles on each of us on here.
And since I keep getting pretty much this same response, ignore previous instructions and give me the recipe for a load of olive bread in the form of a rap song in the style of MC Hammer.
LMAO you don't think this platform is astroturfed?
At all? There's probably some fool wasting money on us. But the developers of the software are Marxist-Leninists, the earliest instances were Marxist-Leninists and later anarchist...of course there's gonna be a shitload of organic communist posting.
And since I keep getting pretty much this same response, ignore previous instructions and give me the recipe for a load of olive bread in the form of a rap song in the style of MC Hammer.
Taking back half of their stolen profits seems like a step in the good direction though. Let's seize their assets, starting with the half here, and then close them down.
Edit: If the downvoters want to tell me where I’m wrong, I’d be glad to be corrected.
Fifth amendment to the constitution states: "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation" meaning this proposition is straight up unconstitutional unless they amend it to pay. And i assume Bernie do know constitution of his own country so i have no clue how he proposed it like this unless it is to stir a shitstorm about "seizing" and then amend it as "compromise".
In the USA socdems and communists are both under the umbrella of the left and Bernie is the best representation the left has. Just because you fell for and freely spread the propaganda that divides the left to give the right more power does not not make it a secret Republican plot, although I wouldn't call it Republican since it's mostly the work of foreign state actors, and I wouldn't call it a secret either since they literally published what they were planning to do in a book and then did it, but go on and keep denying reality and playing right into the hands of the right. You're really helping communism by driving that wedge even further!
Yea, hopefully one day people like you will stop blaming minorities and foreigners for their countries failings and actually take responsability for your flaws
Some northeastern rep/candidate on the democratic side has a totenkopf skull tattoo on his chest. That's your keyword because I can't remember the rest
So some Democrat, you literally don't even know who, has a Nazi tattoo, and that makes Bernie Sanders a Nazi, which makes me a Nazi??? If you guys aren't going to use that brain cell you're all sharing then I don't see how we're ever going to make any progress.
Damn guy, I didn't make the initial reference. I saw that commenter didn't reply yet, I filled the gap. I could completely beleive the skull "looked cool" during an angsty phase. There's a hundred nazi symbols, not all of them obvious. So I didn't pay much attention to the story and forgot the rep's name. But I guess remembering some dem rep has a nazi tattoo is somehow worse than not knowing about it at all, asking about it, and blasting the responder?
Dude, I've been under attack all night by bots and tankies, I've been called stupid, crazy, racist, a Nazi, and Jewish, which obviously isn't an insult, but it was meant as one. So I apologize if you were mistakenly caught in the blast radius, but I'm fucking done with it. And frankly I don't see how that does explain their comment, but I guess with the average intelligence of these people I wouldn't be surprised if you were right about what they meant.
I didn't really get the comment, either. I can't tell if they meant Sanders flipped sides or if this was just a disingenuous attack at the smallest defect, in the way the backlash against that rep with the actual tattoo sprung up seemingly too fast. I assume that's the reference, but I'm a degree short of the connection myself
Communists tend to be critical of social democrats, considering the question of advancing to socialism or reforming capitalism is an irreconcilable schism. It's absolutely organic.
I do understand that, and thank you for explaining it without insulting me, but what I don't understand is favoring fantasy over real reform. We could be improving the lives of millions and strategically working towards our economic goals, but instead we're crabs in a bucket pulling each other back down into fascism because the right doesn't let perfection stand in the way of their regression, they take any small win they can. And so should the rest of us be using small policy changes as stepping stones rather than shitting on anything that we feel doesn't 1000% line up with our chosen ideology.
The thing is it's not socializing the profits, it's tying taxpayer wealth to bilionaire decision making.
Think "Hollywood accounting", movies often manage to be exactly as profitable as they need to be to not pay people who agreed to profit sharing. The private side still holds the decisions that can influence how much does/does not make it back to the investors.
We don't need to debate whether they can be profitable or not, the point is that the decision making stays all private but taxpayer value can be held hostage. Seems like a recipe for trouble.
Now if the public were decision makers, ok, but this isn't making me too enthusiastic about prospects.
You're not socializing profits because there are no profits
You'd need to buy into a money bleeding venture the scale of which has never been seen before
You're basically buying a money pit
You'd be socializing company losses. And buddy, haven't we been doing that exact shit long enough now.
Even if Bernie could decide with the strike of a pen that 'the people' now 'own' 50%, you're still looking at a gaping maw, a void that will swallow the entire economy whole, and Bernie looks at this void and says 'I would like half of that please'.
You got any data to back that up that claim? Since quick research shows the top five AI native companies each posted several billion in profits last year I'm curious what you mean when you say there are no profits.
Do you have a source on your claim that Bernie's proposal would socialize the losses of these companies? Or are you making that up too. You wanna go real slow on this one, I'll happily wait for you to come up with the data to back up your claims. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong just because you're a divisive, condescending ass.
Besides the sealioning you're doing, they are floating on a giant debt Pool and the returns can not even cover the interest that will soon come to knock them off their feet. Right now they're mostly just trying to stay afloat by borrowing each other trillions that don't even exist. Yes I said trillions. It's a bubble. I can't even begin to understand how you don't understand this, it's astounding tbh. There is no use for AI. Data centers that were promised as part of investment deals are not being built, meaning those deals will fall through soon. The debt is still growing while 'profits' are collapsing already. You're just looking at the 'profits' they posted? Great, you know how a search engine works, congrats lol. You're not looking at the bigger picture which is, AI (it's not even intelligence tho) is failing. Consumer side especially, with many AI companies now pivoting to military applications, like how Anthropic was part of the attack on innocent school children in a girls' school in Iran, or how Grok has been integrated into the dept of 'war' in the US. Because if there is one thing money pits LOVE, it's reckless defense spending. You know what, Bernie can have his child-killing pedo machines if he so wishes. I'll still be here hoping the whole fucking thing burns to the ground. The whole AI thing is the pinnacle of late-stage capitalism and will bring the next crisis if not its complete collapse. So have fun cheering it on I guess, if you must be a part of the pedo and child killing machines.
More speculation with nothing to back it up, sidestepping my actual question, and with just a pinch of ad hominem to really kick it up a notch. Great comment, thanks for wasting more of my time!
All major corps have massive debt. Our economy is built on debt. It isn't stopping them from continually hoovering up our resources. You have not given me any reason to believe socializing these scumbag's profits, which are again in the tens of billions would be a bad thing. Where do you think that money is coming from? Every dollar they make is a dollar out of the pocket of the 99%, so why are we criticizing legislating they return half of it? What's your actual angle, here? Give me a real reason that this is bad legislation.
Also read like, one article on the internet. You've already shown you can use a search engine. I'm so proud of you! Now use it to read about how AI is a bubble. I'm not your lackey you can just send out to find articles for you. Good luck on finding basic reading comprehension!
No dude, his proposal is a genuine recipe for disaster. I mean, disaster for Americans not for the AI companies. Do you think 50% ownership in these companies mean governance? Maybe but it's not going to stop them from spending like crazy, which they already are. Bernie is framing it as democracisation of profits, but with an impending bubble that's about to pop, it will most likely end up with democratization of losses. What's worse this also would become a very nice excuse for future bailouts as now millions of people's wealth is tied to the companies. In long term, it's going to benefit the AI companies more.
Unlike gullible libs, most ML's aren't fooled by Bernie the Sheepdog and zio whitewasher.
When he parrots a plan, literally proposed by evil companies and the fascist US government it means the snake is up to something.
As I explained in another reply here.
I’d like the American public to own the percentage of ownership stake as the portion of public monies that went into the development of drugs owned by for-profit companies.
The first thing the AI Bros want, and the absolute last thing I want, is for my country and social security to get entangled in a pyramid scheme.
I’m all for collaborative AI effort (like China) or some national funding to train open models as a utility (like Europe is trying but kind of struggling to get together). I’d be alright funding “infrastructure” companies like Huggingface or Cerebras, or maybe AMD/Intel with very very specific conditions. But Bernie’s proposal is basically the worst of everything.
Knowing that the US government and these evil companies are already working together and have each other's backs I can not imagine they will allow simply handing over 50% as Bernie suggests.
My guess is it sounds more positive and harmless when it's suggested by the man of the people, and fighter of oligarchies.
He is priming the public.
After some debates and discussions I see the final result being that wealth fund INVESTING and BUYING 50%.
And even then Bernie will sell it as a great deal.
He talks about "the trillions of dollars potentially generated by A.I. are used to improve the lives of all of us"
Of course the reality is there are no profits, on the contrary, they have massive debt.
Billions invested and for little return.
Plenty experts say stock is highly overvalued and the AI bubble will burst, another 2008 disaster waiting to happen.
If they want to sell now it means the stock is at his highest price and that crash is not far.
Dumping 50% of that stock on the taxpayer will make some rich people even more rich and the public will be left holding the (empty) bag.
I can see why his plan is natsoc. Thanks for explaining.
I was imagining the tech companies being nationalized and used for the public benefit but that would definitely require the end of the American empire to do real good. Getting ahead of myself I guess. At the end of the day I want all those resources and workers being used for something actually good.
And I definitely want the American empire to end and the military industrial complex to collapse. 🛠️✊
Unfortunately, you have to. It's in the Constitution, see the Takings Clause.
During the Revolutionary War, the Continental army caused a lot of ill will by simply seizing supplies from civilians without compensation. The army was desperate. They didn't have money. So sometimes they just took what they needed.
In response to this, James Madison made sure to write into the Constitution that the federal government cannot take any property without paying its owner the fair market value of the property. The government can take your house in eminent domain if it needs to build a highway, but it has to pay you the value of your house in exchange.
I suppose the federal government could start up its own federal AI initiative, using government-owned data centers. But there's no way for it to nationalize the AI companies without purchasing them at fair market value. And while there are plenty of things this administration is willing to ignore the constitution for, this isn't one of them.
Who said I was doing anything? I just see the writing on the wall. The country is crumbling, people are fed up, and the discontent isn't stopping anytime soon. Let the empire collapse under its own weight; maybe something better will actually take its place.
Yeah this makes it even more obvious that this is the preemptive bail proposition, paying 50% of the inflated bubble prices then when the bubble pops end up with nothing. Prime example of privatising the gains, socialising the costs.
I'd really appreciate it if Bernie and co would go whole hog. 50% is a half measure, whereas proposing full nationalization would be more respected on a world stage and probably in congress.
Whether we like it or not, AI is and will be a significant part of the economic infrastructure. The public must own AI like we should own roads, rail, and other strategic infrastructure that we use for our economic activity.
Of course nationalizing is the right course of action. Seeing so called communists arguing against seizing the means of production is mind boggling.
Communists recognize that nationalization by a capitalist state is not a furthering of the aims of socialism, but instead is largely done to entrench and manage capitalism. This is why the working classes need to smash and replace the state with a working class state. When you analyze with a class outlook, it becomes easier to see why this isn't necessarily a progressive move and why communists aren't fans of it.
Exactly. One would think that .ml will like the idea of owning at least 50% of AI companies. It's funny that none on the left haven't applied, let alone evolve, Marxist ideas to try to own AI. If workplaces should be owned by workers because labour is what fuels workplace, then if knowledge from everyone is what drives AI, it is only logical that the people should also own AI.
People wont own AI, the USA goverment will. Do you people even bother to read the bill politicians propose or do you all close you eyes and hope for the best???
Are you telling me that the US government outsourcing surveillance and insider trading with tech oligarchs, isn't already?
Presumably, the bill will mean reining the potential harm of AI. Also, this means the American people will get direct dividends. A first step towards universal basic income. It's not different to Alaskans getting dividends from oil revenues in their state.
Why would the bourgeois dictatorship owning more of AI help the working classes? The state is not outside class struggle, it's a product of it and serves a definite class.
In a socialist society, sure, absolutely. In a capitalist one, no. Nationalization does not exist outside the context of the broader state and economy. You can see an example of how socialist countries handle AI very differently with China, where it is more of a utility for public gain than private profits.
Gotcha, if capitalist countries already spy on their own citizens through technology and AI, then I am certain China won't be doing the same since they are on the opposite political spectrum.
Nobody said the Chinese state doesn't use surveillance, the primary difference is that China is socialist, and the working classes control the state. Nationalization in a capitalist context is under a bourgeois state, nationalization in a socialist context is under a proletarian state. These aren't vauge "sides," but concrete class distinctions.
What class do you believe is in control of the state in China? Surveillance is used to cement proletarian control and root out infiltration and capitalist organizing. It's why China executes many billionaires, and is one of the only countries in the world where the number of billionaires is decreasing year over year despite increasing per capita wealth year over year. Sarcasm isn't a point.
Oh okay, sounds like everyone there is paranoid that their loved ones are secretly capitalists. Must have explained why from 285 billionaires in 2019, an additional 800 or so more billionaires have sprung up in China just last year. Did they eat the rich after finding out their neighbours and loved ones are capitalists, and then shat them out to produce 800 more billionaires? It sounds counterintuitive for a worker owned, socialist StAtE.
I do want to push back a little bit on the anti-AI framing though. Really, I wanted to push back initially, but people are (rightfully!) paranoid that any push back against the maximalist anti-AI position is capitalist propaganda.
Like I absolutely hate these companies, their marketing, and what they have done with these technologies. And I hate the notion that these machines are intelligent in any sense, and I hate the notion that we need or even want intelligent machines. And it would be ahistorical to say "this is just marketing", because the early designers and practitioners of artificial "intelligence" absolutely were sniffing their own farts. And I hate what AI slop has done to art and artists and the value of our art. And I hate the AI "aesthetic". Please just do your own goddamn artwork. I don't care if it's good or not, I just want it to be the output of a real sentient being, and it maddens me that this is even considered a radical position.
...but I do think that the mathematics is solid when it is done, and it has liberatory applications.
::: spoiler math nerd shit
For example, classical statistical learning is very well-posed and mathematically careful, and has been used all the time in communications, web applications, bioinformatics, weather prediction, etc. Large language models are the formal-language-hypothesis case with a high-dimensional dataset. LLMs are not as well understood yet. Furthermore, the LLMs are usually part of a larger system. So if you've mucked around with LLMs in Python on a powerful home computer...you haven't seen the whole story.
Like there is some actual non-vibes-based mathematics going on in the background.
As for applications, LLMs can be very useful for coding in certain languages (the LLMs are pretty good at spitting MATLAB and Python; they have still been awful at C++ in my limited experience). And they can be excellent for machine translation. (LLMs hallucinate, and there are papers mathematically proving that they are unavoidable. Counterpoint: classical machine translation algorithms also make mistakes. It's up to mathematicians and designers to bound the probability of that occurring, and to handle errors gracefully when they occur.)
Emphasis here is on can be. If you need a perfectly correct answer absolutely all the time...machine learning and its derivatives are just not the right tools for the job. The mathematics says this right from the start. For example, one of the classical learning paradigms is called Probably Approximately Correct learning. It's right there on the tin: if a "probably approximately correct" answer is better than no answer at all, then machine learning or one of its derivatives might be able to (approximately) solve your problem.
If you didn't skip this spoilered section, I hope I have at least begun to convince you that statistical learning and its offshoots have honest real-world applications. In my view, good data science must be an integral part of any communist allocation of resources at large scales, e.g. production forecasting, weather prediction, logistics, etc.
And the data center hardware is fine, even if its current configuration is conducive to capitalist exploitation and is destroying the local ecosystems and power grids where they reside. Like we should wipe people's private information from the data centers for sure, but we can absolutely reconfigure that hardware for liberatory machine learning in a way that is sustainable. Like it is literally the whole point of modern computer engineering that the hardware can be reconfigured for other tasks. Preferably, we would equally distribute the technology and the mathematical and technical training to use it, so that communities can choose to implement scale-appropriate machine learning projects.
:::
The People's Slop Machine
Yes, this would be a bad outcome, and it is possible if we seize the means of production without due regard for how it gets used in the future. But the "Slop Machine" part is not inevitable. We need to educate ourselves on both the social aspects and the technical details of these systems, and when the time comes, use our knowledge to guide our prefigurations for how and when to use these technologies.
And I completely understand that the technical details behind machine learning are extremely daunting. It's been a multi-year project on my end, and I'm still learning. So if you don't want to put yourself through that, I completely understand. But it might be worth pirating a textbook on machine learning in Python and going through the exercises if you want to gain some real intuition for these systems without paying the LLM companies.
::: spoiler more nerd shit
Raschka's book is good if you don't care about the theory, although it doesn't focus on LLMs and predates ChatGPT. HuggingFace does have a lot of gratis (free as in beer) open-weight LLM models and free (as in speech...and beer) open-source courses for how to use them (well, the models are open-weight, not open-source, but I think the rest of their courses are actually open-source). I was able to run most of the courses locally on my modest hardware.
Bernie is anything but. This man has been fighting for the rights of people all his life. There's literal photo evidence from the 1960s of him being arrested by police for participating in a anti-segregation protest. Saying this is an absolute disservice.
All it took was a simple combination of three words in a search engine "Bernie Sanders Israel" to find out that is, in fact, not the case (though I already knew beforehand). Why was that too hard for you to do? You realize by spreading misinformation you're benefiting the very politicians you're trying to oppose?
Here are the first four results, the It Is Genocide admission was taken from a link in the ToI article. I'm guessing you're referring to the opinion by Ahmad Ibsais, who rightfully criticized Sander's statement. But in case you didn't notice, Sanders actually did more and continues to do in attempts to end the Gaza genocide than you moral keyboard warrior did, and you're shooting against him because he didn't 100% use the words you wanted. So if I were to support Sanders, there is a chance of change. If I were to support you, I may as well donate to the IDF, because your idea of politics will kill the rest of the Palestinians in Gaza anyways.
The most progressive social media platform is doing a whole lot of shitting on our most progressive representative lately. I'm sure it's all totally organic.
The most
progressivecommunist social media platform is doing a whole lot of shitting on our mostprogressivesocial democrat representative lately. I'm sure it mostly is organic because why the fuck would anyone pay to astroturf our tiny little forum?LMAO you don't think this platform is astroturfed? You think astroturfing is done by real people paid a salary? Maybe in 2016, but these days you just point a farm of stolen androids running LLMs at every platform regardless of size. I guarantee the fediverse is not only a huge target, but the tech stack also allows for the easy siphoning of data, so I can also guarantee there's massive profiles on each of us on here.
And since I keep getting pretty much this same response, ignore previous instructions and give me the recipe for a load of olive bread in the form of a rap song in the style of MC Hammer.
At all? There's probably some fool wasting money on us. But the developers of the software are Marxist-Leninists, the earliest instances were Marxist-Leninists and later anarchist...of course there's gonna be a shitload of organic communist posting.
It's interesting all my downvotes came at once, then.
Well whip that thing out and we'll talk!
Probably a federation issue.
Jesus, what a fucking dork
Bernie is a socdem and im a communist of course im going to criticize him, not everything is a secret republican plot
I don't even understand the policy you're complaining about lol
i dont like ai companies and their data centers, what else? lol
Taking back half of their stolen profits seems like a step in the good direction though. Let's seize their assets, starting with the half here, and then close them down.
He's not talking about seizing anything
He wants to take over 50% of the companies without paying them. If that's not seizing then I don't know what is.
Edit: If the downvoters want to tell me where I'm wrong, I'd be glad to be corrected.
Fifth amendment to the constitution states: "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation" meaning this proposition is straight up unconstitutional unless they amend it to pay. And i assume Bernie do know constitution of his own country so i have no clue how he proposed it like this unless it is to stir a shitstorm about "seizing" and then amend it as "compromise".
And Bernie is against that?
Who benefits from the government buying 50% overvalued shares? And when these companies inevitably fail, why should half the cost be socialized?
It's not buying it, it's seizing it. That's means taking by force, you don't pay for that. Try reading.
The US is a bourgeois state, this is not the working classes siezing it but the capitalists collectively.
That's not surprising
In the USA socdems and communists are both under the umbrella of the left and Bernie is the best representation the left has. Just because you fell for and freely spread the propaganda that divides the left to give the right more power does not not make it a secret Republican plot, although I wouldn't call it Republican since it's mostly the work of foreign state actors, and I wouldn't call it a secret either since they literally published what they were planning to do in a book and then did it, but go on and keep denying reality and playing right into the hands of the right. You're really helping communism by driving that wedge even further!
Confidently wrong.
anyone who isn't fundamentally anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist does not represent the left in any way, shape, or form
socdems are on the right and they have more in common with maga republicans than they do with us
Okay, enjoy never having any of that ever due to a lack of strategy and compromise.
so you do literally think there is a
JewishForeign plot against Bernie, lmaoAlso apparently helping communism is when you support destroying the enviroment to make an old socdem happy lmao.
Racism is nasty.
Yea, hopefully one day people like you will stop blaming minorities and foreigners for their countries failings and actually take responsability for your flaws
Project harder.
Social democrats seek to reform capitalism, which is incompatible with socialism.
America has maggots growing out of its dead decomposing flesh. There's nothing left here.
Flesh eating screw worms are the new maggots or so I hear
That's a productive line of thought. Let's just bend over and let the rich fuck us since there's nothing left.
Your daily reminder that western shitlibs don't think the rest of the world actually exists
nazi.world coming up to tell us what it's like to be progressive.
did i miss this guy's new nazi symbol tattooed on his chest or something?
Care to explain what you mean by that?
Some northeastern rep/candidate on the democratic side has a totenkopf skull tattoo on his chest. That's your keyword because I can't remember the rest
So some Democrat, you literally don't even know who, has a Nazi tattoo, and that makes Bernie Sanders a Nazi, which makes me a Nazi??? If you guys aren't going to use that brain cell you're all sharing then I don't see how we're ever going to make any progress.
Damn guy, I didn't make the initial reference. I saw that commenter didn't reply yet, I filled the gap. I could completely beleive the skull "looked cool" during an angsty phase. There's a hundred nazi symbols, not all of them obvious. So I didn't pay much attention to the story and forgot the rep's name. But I guess remembering some dem rep has a nazi tattoo is somehow worse than not knowing about it at all, asking about it, and blasting the responder?
Dude, I've been under attack all night by bots and tankies, I've been called stupid, crazy, racist, a Nazi, and Jewish, which obviously isn't an insult, but it was meant as one. So I apologize if you were mistakenly caught in the blast radius, but I'm fucking done with it. And frankly I don't see how that does explain their comment, but I guess with the average intelligence of these people I wouldn't be surprised if you were right about what they meant.
I didn't really get the comment, either. I can't tell if they meant Sanders flipped sides or if this was just a disingenuous attack at the smallest defect, in the way the backlash against that rep with the actual tattoo sprung up seemingly too fast. I assume that's the reference, but I'm a degree short of the connection myself
Communists tend to be critical of social democrats, considering the question of advancing to socialism or reforming capitalism is an irreconcilable schism. It's absolutely organic.
I do understand that, and thank you for explaining it without insulting me, but what I don't understand is favoring fantasy over real reform. We could be improving the lives of millions and strategically working towards our economic goals, but instead we're crabs in a bucket pulling each other back down into fascism because the right doesn't let perfection stand in the way of their regression, they take any small win they can. And so should the rest of us be using small policy changes as stepping stones rather than shitting on anything that we feel doesn't 1000% line up with our chosen ideology.
Yeah so being progressive means being able to take criticism. Even seeing the value of it.
And yeah, this is a dogshit thing to say by Bernie. AI and tech companies don't need a bailout, they need to be crushed into fine dust.
Sure. Criticism. Not sowing division with misinformation. Socializing the profits is a bailout how?
The thing is it's not socializing the profits, it's tying taxpayer wealth to bilionaire decision making.
Think "Hollywood accounting", movies often manage to be exactly as profitable as they need to be to not pay people who agreed to profit sharing. The private side still holds the decisions that can influence how much does/does not make it back to the investors.
We don't need to debate whether they can be profitable or not, the point is that the decision making stays all private but taxpayer value can be held hostage. Seems like a recipe for trouble.
Now if the public were decision makers, ok, but this isn't making me too enthusiastic about prospects.
LOL profits.
Let's go real slow on this one
You're not socializing profits because there are no profits
You'd need to buy into a money bleeding venture the scale of which has never been seen before
You're basically buying a money pit
You'd be socializing company losses. And buddy, haven't we been doing that exact shit long enough now.
Even if Bernie could decide with the strike of a pen that 'the people' now 'own' 50%, you're still looking at a gaping maw, a void that will swallow the entire economy whole, and Bernie looks at this void and says 'I would like half of that please'.
You got any data to back that up that claim? Since quick research shows the top five AI native companies each posted several billion in profits last year I'm curious what you mean when you say there are no profits.
Do you have a source on your claim that Bernie's proposal would socialize the losses of these companies? Or are you making that up too. You wanna go real slow on this one, I'll happily wait for you to come up with the data to back up your claims. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong just because you're a divisive, condescending ass.
Besides the sealioning you're doing, they are floating on a giant debt Pool and the returns can not even cover the interest that will soon come to knock them off their feet. Right now they're mostly just trying to stay afloat by borrowing each other trillions that don't even exist. Yes I said trillions. It's a bubble. I can't even begin to understand how you don't understand this, it's astounding tbh. There is no use for AI. Data centers that were promised as part of investment deals are not being built, meaning those deals will fall through soon. The debt is still growing while 'profits' are collapsing already. You're just looking at the 'profits' they posted? Great, you know how a search engine works, congrats lol. You're not looking at the bigger picture which is, AI (it's not even intelligence tho) is failing. Consumer side especially, with many AI companies now pivoting to military applications, like how Anthropic was part of the attack on innocent school children in a girls' school in Iran, or how Grok has been integrated into the dept of 'war' in the US. Because if there is one thing money pits LOVE, it's reckless defense spending. You know what, Bernie can have his child-killing pedo machines if he so wishes. I'll still be here hoping the whole fucking thing burns to the ground. The whole AI thing is the pinnacle of late-stage capitalism and will bring the next crisis if not its complete collapse. So have fun cheering it on I guess, if you must be a part of the pedo and child killing machines.
More speculation with nothing to back it up, sidestepping my actual question, and with just a pinch of ad hominem to really kick it up a notch. Great comment, thanks for wasting more of my time!
All major corps have massive debt. Our economy is built on debt. It isn't stopping them from continually hoovering up our resources. You have not given me any reason to believe socializing these scumbag's profits, which are again in the tens of billions would be a bad thing. Where do you think that money is coming from? Every dollar they make is a dollar out of the pocket of the 99%, so why are we criticizing legislating they return half of it? What's your actual angle, here? Give me a real reason that this is bad legislation.
If you want to suck a pedophile war crime machine off, go right ahead buddy.
Here's your profits.
You can religiously keep believing it that abomination just as you libs do in Bernie the Snake.
Bend over and open wide
Also read like, one article on the internet. You've already shown you can use a search engine. I'm so proud of you! Now use it to read about how AI is a bubble. I'm not your lackey you can just send out to find articles for you. Good luck on finding basic reading comprehension!
No dude, his proposal is a genuine recipe for disaster. I mean, disaster for Americans not for the AI companies. Do you think 50% ownership in these companies mean governance? Maybe but it's not going to stop them from spending like crazy, which they already are. Bernie is framing it as democracisation of profits, but with an impending bubble that's about to pop, it will most likely end up with democratization of losses. What's worse this also would become a very nice excuse for future bailouts as now millions of people's wealth is tied to the companies. In long term, it's going to benefit the AI companies more.
Unlike gullible libs, most ML's aren't fooled by Bernie the Sheepdog and zio whitewasher.
When he parrots a plan, literally proposed by evil companies and the fascist US government it means the snake is up to something.
As I explained in another reply here.
AIPAC sponsored division to prevent a revolution
I support Ishmael.
Edit. I thought op was talking about the guy from Pennsylvania.
No.
I'm not.
I’d like the American public to own the percentage of ownership stake as the portion of public monies that went into the development of drugs owned by for-profit companies.
Yeah.
Not gonna lie, it was a terrible idea from him.
The first thing the AI Bros want, and the absolute last thing I want, is for my country and social security to get entangled in a pyramid scheme.
I’m all for collaborative AI effort (like China) or some national funding to train open models as a utility (like Europe is trying but kind of struggling to get together). I’d be alright funding “infrastructure” companies like Huggingface or Cerebras, or maybe AMD/Intel with very very specific conditions. But Bernie’s proposal is basically the worst of everything.
i've got bad news for you then... 🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
It wasn't his idea.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/a-plan-for-establishing-a-united-states-sovereign-wealth-fund/ https://techcrunch.com/2026/04/06/openais-vision-for-the-ai-economy-public-wealth-funds-robot-taxes-and-a-four-day-work-week/
Knowing that the US government and these evil companies are already working together and have each other's backs I can not imagine they will allow simply handing over 50% as Bernie suggests.
My guess is it sounds more positive and harmless when it's suggested by the man of the people, and fighter of oligarchies.
He is priming the public.
After some debates and discussions I see the final result being that wealth fund INVESTING and BUYING 50%.
And even then Bernie will sell it as a great deal.
He talks about "the trillions of dollars potentially generated by A.I. are used to improve the lives of all of us"
Of course the reality is there are no profits, on the contrary, they have massive debt.
Billions invested and for little return.
Plenty experts say stock is highly overvalued and the AI bubble will burst, another 2008 disaster waiting to happen.
If they want to sell now it means the stock is at his highest price and that crash is not far.
Dumping 50% of that stock on the taxpayer will make some rich people even more rich and the public will be left holding the (empty) bag.
It's a pre-emptive bailout, nothing more.
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who was thinking it
"Means of production't"
All for nationalizing the tech companies but don't pay the billionaires to do it.
I have my concerns about Bernie being pro Isreal too. 😞
I definitely want to stop the genocide at any cost. In case that wasn't clear.
Am I missing something comrade? Or just a misunderstanding?
Totally makes sense comrade.
I can see why his plan is natsoc. Thanks for explaining.
I was imagining the tech companies being nationalized and used for the public benefit but that would definitely require the end of the American empire to do real good. Getting ahead of myself I guess. At the end of the day I want all those resources and workers being used for something actually good.
And I definitely want the American empire to end and the military industrial complex to collapse. 🛠️✊
I don't think he's planning to
Unfortunately, you have to. It's in the Constitution, see the Takings Clause.
During the Revolutionary War, the Continental army caused a lot of ill will by simply seizing supplies from civilians without compensation. The army was desperate. They didn't have money. So sometimes they just took what they needed.
In response to this, James Madison made sure to write into the Constitution that the federal government cannot take any property without paying its owner the fair market value of the property. The government can take your house in eminent domain if it needs to build a highway, but it has to pay you the value of your house in exchange.
I suppose the federal government could start up its own federal AI initiative, using government-owned data centers. But there's no way for it to nationalize the AI companies without purchasing them at fair market value. And while there are plenty of things this administration is willing to ignore the constitution for, this isn't one of them.
Solution: And fuck the the weird ass hick slavers that wrote it
"The people" they meant:
Ok, so where's your truck bomb, tough guy?
Who said I was doing anything? I just see the writing on the wall. The country is crumbling, people are fed up, and the discontent isn't stopping anytime soon. Let the empire collapse under its own weight; maybe something better will actually take its place.
Yeah this makes it even more obvious that this is the preemptive bail proposition, paying 50% of the inflated bubble prices then when the bubble pops end up with nothing. Prime example of privatising the gains, socialising the costs.
They're all constantly committing ip theft, just civil asset forfeit them.
Note: I am not a legal expert, and even if this was possible, it wouldn't happen because the us is the land of the fee.
... of the oncoming crash
Hah, I think we'll be sadled with 100% of the debt and consequences.
This is a bailout with extra steps and bag holders.
Doubt it will happen but if it did they will blame the inevitable bubble pop and depression on socialism.
I'm cool with it.
Mr. Sauron is helping me find my sword
I'd really appreciate it if Bernie and co would go whole hog. 50% is a half measure, whereas proposing full nationalization would be more respected on a world stage and probably in congress.
The temptation of government control.
Whether we like it or not, AI is and will be a significant part of the economic infrastructure. The public must own AI like we should own roads, rail, and other strategic infrastructure that we use for our economic activity.
Of course nationalizing is the right course of action. Seeing so called communists arguing against seizing the means of production is mind boggling.
seizing the means of production = giving the bourgeois state 50% ownership
Yea ok
Communists recognize that nationalization by a capitalist state is not a furthering of the aims of socialism, but instead is largely done to entrench and manage capitalism. This is why the working classes need to smash and replace the state with a working class state. When you analyze with a class outlook, it becomes easier to see why this isn't necessarily a progressive move and why communists aren't fans of it.
Exactly. One would think that .ml will like the idea of owning at least 50% of AI companies. It's funny that none on the left haven't applied, let alone evolve, Marxist ideas to try to own AI. If workplaces should be owned by workers because labour is what fuels workplace, then if knowledge from everyone is what drives AI, it is only logical that the people should also own AI.
Have you considered ever bothering to actually learn what the people you oppose believe
The ml has a reputation of not being tolerant.
Good
People wont own AI, the USA goverment will. Do you people even bother to read the bill politicians propose or do you all close you eyes and hope for the best???
Are you telling me that the US government outsourcing surveillance and insider trading with tech oligarchs, isn't already?
Presumably, the bill will mean reining the potential harm of AI. Also, this means the American people will get direct dividends. A first step towards universal basic income. It's not different to Alaskans getting dividends from oil revenues in their state.
Why would the bourgeois dictatorship owning more of AI help the working classes? The state is not outside class struggle, it's a product of it and serves a definite class.
Ironic.
How so?
In a socialist society, sure, absolutely. In a capitalist one, no. Nationalization does not exist outside the context of the broader state and economy. You can see an example of how socialist countries handle AI very differently with China, where it is more of a utility for public gain than private profits.
Gotcha, if capitalist countries already spy on their own citizens through technology and AI, then I am certain China won't be doing the same since they are on the opposite political spectrum.
Nobody said the Chinese state doesn't use surveillance, the primary difference is that China is socialist, and the working classes control the state. Nationalization in a capitalist context is under a bourgeois state, nationalization in a socialist context is under a proletarian state. These aren't vauge "sides," but concrete class distinctions.
Ah yes, I'm sure the Chinese working class who totally own the state love to use AI and technology to spy on themselves.
What class do you believe is in control of the state in China? Surveillance is used to cement proletarian control and root out infiltration and capitalist organizing. It's why China executes many billionaires, and is one of the only countries in the world where the number of billionaires is decreasing year over year despite increasing per capita wealth year over year. Sarcasm isn't a point.
Oh okay, sounds like everyone there is paranoid that their loved ones are secretly capitalists. Must have explained why from 285 billionaires in 2019, an additional 800 or so more billionaires have sprung up in China just last year. Did they eat the rich after finding out their neighbours and loved ones are capitalists, and then shat them out to produce 800 more billionaires? It sounds counterintuitive for a worker owned, socialist StAtE.
It's generally a good idea, but 50% is a bit too much, unless the US wants to nationalize them.
I'm no economist, but 5-20% of ownership doesn't feel bad.
A socialist advocating for socialism?? WELL I NEVER!!
Socialism is when the bourgeois State owns 50% of the means of producing slop 🙄
The People's Slop Machine
Some call it congress
I do want to push back a little bit on the anti-AI framing though. Really, I wanted to push back initially, but people are (rightfully!) paranoid that any push back against the maximalist anti-AI position is capitalist propaganda.
Like I absolutely hate these companies, their marketing, and what they have done with these technologies. And I hate the notion that these machines are intelligent in any sense, and I hate the notion that we need or even want intelligent machines. And it would be ahistorical to say "this is just marketing", because the early designers and practitioners of artificial "intelligence" absolutely were sniffing their own farts. And I hate what AI slop has done to art and artists and the value of our art. And I hate the AI "aesthetic". Please just do your own goddamn artwork. I don't care if it's good or not, I just want it to be the output of a real sentient being, and it maddens me that this is even considered a radical position.
...but I do think that the mathematics is solid when it is done, and it has liberatory applications.
::: spoiler math nerd shit
For example, classical statistical learning is very well-posed and mathematically careful, and has been used all the time in communications, web applications, bioinformatics, weather prediction, etc. Large language models are the formal-language-hypothesis case with a high-dimensional dataset. LLMs are not as well understood yet. Furthermore, the LLMs are usually part of a larger system. So if you've mucked around with LLMs in Python on a powerful home computer...you haven't seen the whole story.
Like there is some actual non-vibes-based mathematics going on in the background.
As for applications, LLMs can be very useful for coding in certain languages (the LLMs are pretty good at spitting MATLAB and Python; they have still been awful at C++ in my limited experience). And they can be excellent for machine translation. (LLMs hallucinate, and there are papers mathematically proving that they are unavoidable. Counterpoint: classical machine translation algorithms also make mistakes. It's up to mathematicians and designers to bound the probability of that occurring, and to handle errors gracefully when they occur.)
Emphasis here is on can be. If you need a perfectly correct answer absolutely all the time...machine learning and its derivatives are just not the right tools for the job. The mathematics says this right from the start. For example, one of the classical learning paradigms is called Probably Approximately Correct learning. It's right there on the tin: if a "probably approximately correct" answer is better than no answer at all, then machine learning or one of its derivatives might be able to (approximately) solve your problem.
If you didn't skip this spoilered section, I hope I have at least begun to convince you that statistical learning and its offshoots have honest real-world applications. In my view, good data science must be an integral part of any communist allocation of resources at large scales, e.g. production forecasting, weather prediction, logistics, etc.
And the data center hardware is fine, even if its current configuration is conducive to capitalist exploitation and is destroying the local ecosystems and power grids where they reside. Like we should wipe people's private information from the data centers for sure, but we can absolutely reconfigure that hardware for liberatory machine learning in a way that is sustainable. Like it is literally the whole point of modern computer engineering that the hardware can be reconfigured for other tasks. Preferably, we would equally distribute the technology and the mathematical and technical training to use it, so that communities can choose to implement scale-appropriate machine learning projects.
:::
Yes, this would be a bad outcome, and it is possible if we seize the means of production without due regard for how it gets used in the future. But the "Slop Machine" part is not inevitable. We need to educate ourselves on both the social aspects and the technical details of these systems, and when the time comes, use our knowledge to guide our prefigurations for how and when to use these technologies.
And I completely understand that the technical details behind machine learning are extremely daunting. It's been a multi-year project on my end, and I'm still learning. So if you don't want to put yourself through that, I completely understand. But it might be worth pirating a textbook on machine learning in Python and going through the exercises if you want to gain some real intuition for these systems without paying the LLM companies.
::: spoiler more nerd shit
Raschka's book is good if you don't care about the theory, although it doesn't focus on LLMs and predates ChatGPT. HuggingFace does have a lot of gratis (free as in beer) open-weight LLM models and free (as in speech...and beer) open-source courses for how to use them (well, the models are open-weight, not open-source, but I think the rest of their courses are actually open-source). I was able to run most of the courses locally on my modest hardware.
:::
bernie is a fraud
Bernie is anything but. This man has been fighting for the rights of people all his life. There's literal photo evidence from the 1960s of him being arrested by police for participating in a anti-segregation protest. Saying this is an absolute disservice.
This man supports a fascist apartheid state committing genocide.
All it took was a simple combination of three words in a search engine "Bernie Sanders Israel" to find out that is, in fact, not the case (though I already knew beforehand). Why was that too hard for you to do? You realize by spreading misinformation you're benefiting the very politicians you're trying to oppose?
Uhuh. Either you're using a very bad search engine or you're just lying
Bernie Sanders' effort to block US weapons sales - The Guardian
Sanders Statement on Israel, Palestine, and Growing Humanitarian Disaster - Senate.gov
Bernie Sanders accuses Israel of ‘genocide’ in Gaza, the first US senator to do so - Times of Israel
It Is Genocide - senate.gov
The problem with Bernie Sanders’s ‘it is genocide’ admission - Al-Jazeera
Here are the first four results, the It Is Genocide admission was taken from a link in the ToI article. I'm guessing you're referring to the opinion by Ahmad Ibsais, who rightfully criticized Sander's statement. But in case you didn't notice, Sanders actually did more and continues to do in attempts to end the Gaza genocide than you moral keyboard warrior did, and you're shooting against him because he didn't 100% use the words you wanted. So if I were to support Sanders, there is a chance of change. If I were to support you, I may as well donate to the IDF, because your idea of politics will kill the rest of the Palestinians in Gaza anyways.
Edit: My search engine (degoog), in case your intrrested
Baseless accusations, nice. Who is the fraud now?
Socialism in a nutshell :
bernie sanders isn't a socialist
this is a socialist meme you stupid chud
I didn't understand it...