Help me ditch windows?
Hey everyone! I'm finally fed up with Win11 and the bullshit that comes with it for the PC it's on.
It's being used as a Jellyfin+arr stack, qbit, Immich, and gaming PC for the living room.
I'm currently in the process of backing up all my important info and am doing research on which distro to use.
I don't mind tinkering, but for this PC, stability is key. I don't want to have to go in and update it every week... I want this one to work with minimal maintenance on my part.
I'd likely update it a few times a year, knowing me.
A few hardware specs:
MSI mobo (I've learned that UEFI can be a pain), 10600k, 2070 gpu, and will have a pool of 3x8tb drives that I would like to have in raid5 (or something similar) for storage (movies, TV shows, and Immich libraries), the OS will have its own drive, and I have a separate SSD that I have been using to store programs, games, yml's for docker, and other such things that get accessed more frequently, but aren't crucial if lost.
I've kinda narrowed it down to either Bazzite or CachyOS.
I've heard that Bazzite can be a little more locked down, which I'm not a fan of, but CachyOS has features I will likely never touch (schedulers, kernels, etc...).
I don't want an upkeep heavy OS. I'm moving away from windows for that reason. Win11 has been a nightmare for me with constant reboots and things not loading up until after I log in. Not to mention driver conflicts and all the other BS that's come with it.
So... What say the hive mind? Is Bazzite going to be too tinker-proof, or is CachyOS just way too much work? Or do I have it all wrong with my perception of both?
Thanks!
Ps: this will be my first full commit to Linux. I've dabbled in the past and am no stranger to CLI... So this will likely be a stepping stone into getting my primary PC onto Linux. Go easy on me lol
I have neither used Bazzite nor CachyOS. You're sure you don't want to try Linux Mint? It's extremely stable Linux for your grandma. Seriously, my dad's laptops run Mint, and have for the last 5-6 years. When he gets a new laptop, I go over and install Mint for him (and he doesn't know what Linux even means, he keeps calling LibreOffice "linux"). He asks me for help with his Windows desktop all the time (which he needs for certain software), but linux "just works" (his words). My son's gaming computer and our house TV (which is an oldish Dell All-In-One that both my son and my wife need to be able to use) also run Mint.
For me, work computers that need to be stable run Mint, work computers that need to be secure run Qubes and servers run Debian.
I second this; Mint is great if you want to set up once and get going.
seconding this, my gf struggles with tech, i put her laptop on linux mint and shes had a much easier time using it
My 70 + year old mother uses pop OS and has a degoogled phone that she uses signal to measage. Switching cost is a lie... the tech bros always switching things up so much anyways... Whats is stable and reliable anyways. This world is a shit storm of corpo tech bro nonsense. meh
Linux mint is pretty chill! Debian I think? Its got all the bells and whistles. When I set it up for the first time it kinda reminded me of windows. I also like redshift which does not work on pop OS which I use now as a daily driver.
No, Mint is Ubuntu.
LMDE is Debian.
Ubuntu is also Debian under the hood.
Yes, but it's more up-to-date and Ubuntu has Canonical tentacles all over it.
Most (all?) of the bad Canonical stuff is removed in Linux Mint. It's the reason for its existence.
You do get the good stuff though like Ubuntu's better hardware support and PPAs etc that Debian doesn't have.
I know.
I was just replying that Ubuntu and Debian are different.
That last bit is why I run LMDE. Ubuntu was great for a while (started using it 2010-ish), but I don't like the direction Canonical is going these days.
Have you found an alternative way to use your house TV with anything other than mouse and keyboard? (Like a remote or something?)
There are remotes for PC. I have one right now, and they are pretty cheap in Amazon. One nice thing is that they can also do limited control of the TV (through IR, obv).
One thing to keep in mind is that most identity not all of these remotes have a gyro mouse.
I haven't tried.
Yeah I wouldn't recommend a rolling release distro like cachy then lol. Debian or it's derivatives would be better for something low maintenance that you don't need to update frequently
I also wouldn't recommend bazzite, just cause im not a fan of immutable distros as they feel too locked down for me, but I've never attempted to set up a jellyfin on one, so someone else with more experience would provide a more concrete answer for your purposes there
Yea, I want something stable and an arch based distro don't really go together.
One of the Debian family is best for that.
Arch based distros can be very stable these days.
People forget that SteamOS on the Steam Deck is Arch based.
what's the point of using arch if you won't be going any heavy tinkering or using bleeding edge shit? debian is the objectively correct choice here
If they're going to be using docker and gaming, they probably do want to be tinkering though while so having stability.
Hence, Arch. That's why Valve went with it too.
If they won't be doing gaming stuff though, then yeah Debian is the better choice.
Arch can be very stable, and if you pin linux you shouldn't have to reboot very often... but it's still a rolling release, and þe longer you go between updates þe greater þe chances you'll encounter an issue.
Twice a year, þough... I have pure Arch machines I update þat infrequently. Dealing wiþ
.pacnewfiles is always a major endeavor, and archnews can be a slog, but while I wouldn't advocate updating once a year, twice? Doable. Quarterly? Absolutely. Every oþer monþ? Þat's about how frequently I upgrade my desktop, usually because I want a new version of someþing and þe dependency cascade makes an-Syueasier.Life got a lot better when I pinned my kernel, þough. Þe reboots were þe most annoying part.
Bazzite is good for gaming and general computing. If you want to run servers or tinker with the OS at all it becomes annoying and impractical.
Fedora is stable, with modern packages, and is what Bazzite is based off of. I'd probably recommend that.
Debian is rock-solid stable, but lacks newer packages. It's great for a server, not so great for gaming and general computing.
What the fuck??? I've been daily driving Debian for years now on my personal laptops, desktop, mini PC, and mutliple servers. I've found and reported Linux kernel vulnerabilities on my trusty Debian systems.
What do you mean it's not so great for general computing? What can't you do with Debian computing-wise that you can do with other distros? The only issues I've ever had was with some LaTeX packages being older versions. You just get that from CTAN and install that manually.
This is such a ridiculous comment. What do you do on a server that's not general computing? You're doing a subset of general computing??? How does a fucking distro actively prevent you from doing general computing???
Packages are frequently outdated. Older packages can be difficult for new users who want a computer to "just work". It's fine for general computing, but not great.
Also fuck off with this attitude man. I'm not attacking you, learn how to speak to people.
Sorry. I get quite triggered when people add pseudo-labels to distributions, mainly Debian being outdated. Looking back, I was quite harsh and I apologize.
However, you're actively spreading the false narrative by saying Debian's not good for "general computing" - this is what triggers me. A distribution is nothing but its package manager and some defaults. Some have different defaults and package managers.
The only place this makes a difference is with the latest hardware which OP does not have. I have more recent hardware than OP and Debian 13 + KDE Plasma 6 works out of the box.
Again, I really hate this sentence. I will tone down the rudeness this time in explaining why. I have daily-driven Debian for years with AMD + Intel CPUs, Nvidia GPUs (1070, 3060) with use cases ranging wildly through the years. I cannot fathom what kind of general computing cannot work. If you say specialized computing, I would still disagree as there are always ways to make things work.
Just off the top of my head where things are iffy with Debian: bat cannot be installed via a package manager, but not on most distros anyway. There's a deb package though which works. Similar with dust, although more distros have it in their package manager.
Debian, like you said, is rock-solid stable. In my many years of developing code, university courses, daily work (research), maintaining servers with wildly different usages, Debian's "outdated" packages have only let me down once and that was with a LaTeX package which could be installed via ctan anyway.
Okay, aside from all the distro advice, I have some practical install advice.
There's a program called Ventoy. At ventoy.net
Most distros these days have a live CD option, meaning you can run the distro and test how it feels without actually committing to an install.
So, take all the distro options here and throw them all on a thumb drive with ventoy installed, then you can simply boot into each one.
Now, my personal fav distro is called Garuda. It excells at gaming, and can do everything you want, but will put a red blinking icon in the task bar if you don't update every week or so.
Garuda is Arch based.
Ventoy is great. I have a dedicated 128GB flash drive with a variety of ISOs, including various live and full-install Linux distros, Windows (LTSC only + MAS scripts), and diagnostics (Hirens, memtest86, etc).
Incredibly handy to have on-hand.
Good advise, but 0/10; you forgot your 'btw' after mentioning arch :p
Eh, Garuda has its own repositories and packages, so it's Arch, but not Arch Arch if that makes sense.
I know what ya meant, just pulling your leg.
Its like how i use linux mint. Its ubuntu, technically, but has its own repos
I don't believe Ventoy is safe. Too much dodgy stuff.
https://feddit.online/post/605807#post_replies
https://kbin.melroy.org/m/[email protected]/t/509282
https://linuxmom.net/@vkc/112906968594601449
Isn't it a hacky one person foss project? of course the thing is gonna be dodgy, I'm neither shocked nor worried about it.
Between those two I would recommend Bazzite, but I think I would actually recommend Bazzite's parent distro, Fedora, instead. Mainly just because I don't know how Bazzite would handle server software.
Also to note, updating Linux is significantly quicker and less painful than updating Windows
The issue with Fedora for OP is its update frequency might annoy them. Bazzite doing automatic updates might feel more "set it and forget it" for them.
I also would expect server software to be fine on bazzite, just run it in docker containers (which you should be doing for hosting services anyway)
No joke. It feels like I'm constantly catching up with Fedora. And I am a person who finds system upgrades recreational. It is not a good pick for OP.
I’ve been running Fedora on one of my computers fore years. It’s pretty good and stable, but there are lots of updates. I haven’t really bothered to tweak or update that much, which seems to be a bad combination for Fedora. I think this distro requires more maintenance than I’m willing to give it.
For example, updates used to work for a while, until one day they just didn’t any more. I fixed that, and things were ok for a little while, until another update broke the GUI again. Eventually, I just got tired of troubleshooting a basic thing like the update GUI, and stopped fixing it every year. I just ignored the GUI, and installed updates through the terminal instead. I just can’t be bothered to fix the GUI more often than maybe once every 5 years.
Eventually, I realized I don’t have the time or energy to do that much admin work for a computer that doesn’t matter that much. Had it been my primary computer, that wouldn’t have been a problem, but in this case it was. Recently, I switched to Debian. Let’s see how well that system handles the level of neglect I’ll be subjecting it to.
Besides, that computer doesn’t even require the latest versions, so why bother with Fedora. Debian should be new enough for my needs, and installing updates like few times a year should be fine.
Debian. It’s rock solid. You don’t need anything flashy or new fangled if you’re just building a home server.
I wouldn’t suggest bazzite or cachyos for a newbie.
There's a lot of well meaning but not too well informed advice in here. Since one of your goals is gaming, stay away from Mint. It can be made to work (well), but you have to get there. It's basically the recommendation people gave for decades, but there have been massive improvements through many distros while mint just kinda stood still. There's still some things they do rather well though.
CachyOS will do what you want it to, and it is what I switched to like 8 months ago. It isn't maintenance heavy at all if you don't want it to be. I think I had to intervene once since I started using it, but that intervention was necessary or it wouldn't have booted after updates. The official updater will tell you when that's the case, as it lists critical news like that. Otherwise it just works, and it's pre-configured and optimized for gaming. Under the hood it's basically Arch, just without the fiddling of getting it to a usable state. Because of that they're is also an enormous amount of information out there (Arch wiki) on how to do stuff.
Bazzite is a stark contrast in many ways as it's an immutable distro, but also pre-configured and optimized (maybe not quite as much as CachyOS). It will also do what you want just fine. It is relatively "safe" due to the immutability, and updates are much rarer (and by definition always whole system updates). I don't know exactly how you'd run your services, but assuming they are dockerized or similar that should be just fine, but please do some searching before if it does contain what you need in the base image (presumably docker and docker compose).
Mint works just fine for gaming. I run LMDE 6, all you really have to do is install Steam with Proton. I also run RPCS3 without any odd configuration outside of game-specific items (which you would have to do on Windows as well so it's a moot point).
My experience as well. So far I’ve run ~20 games through steam and never even needed protondb advice as it just worked.
I play multiple Windows-only games on Steam, including BeamNG.Drive, which hilariously runs even better on Linux than it ever did on Windows. It maintains 60+ FPS on High settings at 1440P without even trying.
I was running everything through Docker, so that will be a must. Jellyfin was on its own executable, but that was because something with transcoding, I think, wasn't working with docker. I don't remember now what the problem was, but apparently the issue didn't exist in the Linux docker version. It was isolated to windows.
If it's not in the base image, there will be a way to add it, yea?
Somewhere else in the thread someone mentioned Bazzite not being ideal for servers, but I'm still parsing through all the replies, so I'm unsure how accurate that is.
Docker and Bazzite are not plug-and-play. That being said, bazzite comes with podman, and podman can create a docker environment.
But...I am not an expert here by any means. Do not take this as a green light to just go ahead and pick bazzite. Bazzite is my daily driver and I use podman to run arch and Ubuntu CLI programs as well as an ollama local llm server, but I know NOTHING about docker, I just have seen the docs and thought I would share.
These Linux Docker images may be of use to you for setup.
On Linux, running Jellyfin through docker with GPU acceleration works fine, yes. But you need some options/flags to pass access to the GPU to the inside of the container. Guides and/or docker tutorials exist and should contain that, as that's basically the default setup these days.
As for Bazzite and Docker (I just checked), no it isn't part of the base image and you can't easily install it. That's the downside of an immutable distro. I think podman is available, which is compatible and FOSS, but there may be caveats to using that. There is a bazzite version called bazzite-dx intended for developers, so that one would probably work fine for you out of the box. There shouldn't be any real downside to using that compared to the mainline image, apart from being slightly larger cause all dev tools are installed, but do check that. My practical experience with Bazzite is limited.
My real recommendation is: just try it. Slap in a small/cheap SSD (~20 bucks) instead of whatever you got in there now, install CachyOS and try it out. Then install Bazzite and try it out. By "Try it out" I do mean setting up a copy of or a test-install of your required services (arr stack, jellyfin, ...), to see if everything is as you'd expect. Possibly install more distros to try them out, then make up your mind and actually fully migrate, or if it doesn't work out go back to your currently installed drive. Installing a linux distro takes like 10 minutes these days, then play around with however long you need. Since you already have it narrowed down to only 2 options anyway, that is most likely the best solution.
I switched to Bazzite last week, and also run Jellyfin. It's been a pain. Hours of troubleshooting. I'm still having an issue with metadata, but I think that's actually just Jellyfin. That said, most of the issues were easy to fix, just hard to research. SELinux is a pain and messes up Jellyfin.
Sudo Setenforce 0
And it works like a charm. Doing volume labeling does not work. Other than that, you just need to adjust to using podman instead of docker.
Oh, and gaming just works. STALKER 2 runs better on Bazzite for me than it did on Win10.
I cannot recommend Bazzite enough. It is amazing, and it’s based on Fedora, which is also amazing. I’ve used Arch based distros before, and they can be really cool, but they break once in a while, especially if you haven’t updated them in ages.
I’ve turned on a PC with Fedora after a year and a half, and just updated as usual, and it all worked. Bazzite is even easier, because updating simply means downloading a new base image and updating your Flatpaks. Easy peasy, and very quick.
To get Docker, to run your servers, in Bazzite, you can use
ujust:https://docs.bazzite.gg/Installing_and_Managing_Software/ujust/
Or switch your base image to Bazzite DX:
https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite-dx
Linux Mint is a pretty good stepping stone into the world of Linux. Or Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE), for Ubuntu/Canonical free experience. Especially if you prefer low maintenance distribution. Debian has pretty long release cycles, and LMDE, being based on it, will share similar release cycles.
If you game, Bazzite with KDE is damn near perfect. I've been running it for a year and never had a problem making it do what I want it to do.
Bazzite is immutable, updates are easy and not bothersome, and if for any reason one ever breaks something, a single command (sudo rpm-ostree rollback), you go back to the previous state, easy peasy.
My setup is a lot like yours using the same apps. And I actually use Bazzite for my gaming PC.
But I would NOT recommend it for use as a server. It’s a cool distro and gets the job done for gaming. But not suitable for server needs. Also for another reason, Bazzite is immutable which means that it’s not really built to be customizable like other distros. That’s great for ensuring you don’t mess stuff up too bad, but not great for learning and for homelab stuff. You’ll want more customization and the ability to make the OS yours as you find yourself needing to make all kinds of changes as you find new stuff to deploy to it.
Like the other person said here, go with something like Debian. That’s what I am using for my server with the same apps you use.
As a beginner, you’ll find a lot of the guides online for setting up and troubleshooting will often favor Debian and it’ll be easier to do.
Bazzite doesn’t have the same convenience which you will love to have as a beginner learning the Linux space.
If you want to try out some distros, my recommendation is to get yourself a laptop that’s from within the last 5-7 years and you can load up all the different distros on there to get them a test. It’s how I do mine. I got a laptop from work they were going to e-waste and been using it exclusively for Linux for the past 2 years and tried tons of distros on it since.
A lot of people running homelabs choose Debian because it’s like you said. Easy on updates and not prone to shutting down or needing a lot of maintenance and troubleshooting. It just works.
Also, you’ll find that nearly any Linux distro nowadays doesn’t require reboots after updates. I still do them on occasion, but it’s really not necessary and the OS won’t nag you or reboot on its own. I had that frustration with Windows tons of times. Left the house and went to the gym to discover my Windows server rebooted itself that day with zero warning and now I can’t enjoy Plex or my streaming music. That happened to me a couple of times. I have never had that happen with Linux since switching. Only did when we had a power outage, but now I have a UPS and set the computer to auto start when it detects power so that won’t be an issue anymore even after an outage.
Also, if you’re not already doing it, consider using a container like Docker or Podman for your hosted apps. It’s working wonders for me and everything is much easier to control here. It’s also just a great learning experience overall. Management of your apps becomes a lot easier and keeping things contained. My only regret is that I wish I would have started using Docker when I switched to Linux, but the switch after wasn’t too bad. I just had some cleanup to do of the standalone services in transferring to Docker.
I've seen Debian mentioned a couple times now. Is there an ideal fork/repo/tell-me-what-word-to-use-here for what I'm trying to do?
I do have a laptop that would likely work for testing... But other than just firing it up... I have no idea what I should be doing to test it out. Install steam? Docker + a container? I don't really have the time to commit to doing all of that for multiple distros...
All the containers will be dockerized. I'll have to learn the new file structure and change the compose yaml's before I fire them all up, but I can't imagine that'll be too horrible.
I actually really enjoyed learning docker, but it was a huge time sink and I'm trying to mitigate that as much as I can with this migration
No forks for Debian. Actually Debian is often used as a fork so Debian is the original, in a sense. A lot of other distros like Ubuntu have built themselves on Debian over the years. That somewhat speaks volumes to its longevity in the space and how stable it is.
The download I used is the one on their main page https://www.debian.org/ when you find the Download link in the center of the page. But if you’d like to see all of their options, you should take a look at this page https://www.debian.org/distrib/ but really it’s kind of the generic download for most, unless you need the ARM version because you’re installing on something like a Raspberry Pi or if you are using Azure, then they have a build for a virtual machine in the cloud.
Once you download the ISO from them, whether it be from a mirror or a torrent, you’ll use something like Rufus to create your live USB and that’ll let you try it out and then actually do the install. When in this live USB, you can do anything you want in it to test it and see how you like it. You can even install apps and such but just know that on next reboot, the live USB goes back to default, so it’s kind of like a computer that you can keep using indefinitely as a fresh install. It’s meant to do that so you can test it and ensure it’s what you want and works well with your system, because if that doesn’t load, then you won’t be able to install it at all. You basically get to run the entire OS off a USB flash drive and then there’s an option to actually install the OS to your computer if you feel ready to do so. Most distros go this route which is honestly a really great feature of Linux. That live USB is also good to hold onto in case anything should happen. For one, you have something that will let you run Linux off a USB in case you have like a hard drive failure and need to troubleshoot or if you ever need to reinstall Linux, you’ll have that ready to go again for you. The installation process for most distros nowadays is super simple and walks you through the entire process. It’s as easy as installing windows, and in my opinion, it’s easier and faster than installing Windows for most distros. Another good thing about Debian here is that it’s really basic and barebones. Bazzite will give you a bunch of programs right off the bat, but Debian is a pretty clean slate you’ll be working with so you don’t have a bunch of programs installed and possibly running that you’ll never use but not sure if you can remove them or not.
As far as installing stuff, you can generally do just like Windows and go to your choice program’s webpages and most will either have .deb files you can manually download and run to install your application (like Steam) or you can use the terminal’s apt (what Debian uses, other distros like Arch and Fedora may use something different) to search for and install packages too.
Personally I prefer using apt in the terminal to install my apps. It makes it much more clean and easy to manage for updates. So for searching you’ll want to use “apt search Steam” for Steam, for example. And you’ll get a list of results in the terminal results to choose from. When you find the one you feel is the one you want to use, you’ll then run “sudo apt install Steam” and if it finds duplicates it’ll prompt you which be you want or it’ll just ask you if you want to proceed or not and you enter a y or n for yes or no and the terminal takes care of the installation for you.
I generally find the app I want from the list of apt search and then copy the name exactly as shown in the list and paste when doing “sudo apt install Steam” where Steam is whatever was shown in the search results.
Sudo being the equivalent of entering your administrator credentials to do an elevated task like on Windows. Sudo isn’t needed when searching for an app name, hence why you don’t need sudo there, but sudo is required to actually install the app and its updates. You can use sudo with apt search, but it’s not necessary and might be a security risk to get used to using sudo when not necessary. So best to only use sudo when you know you need to. If an action requires it, either the app will directly tell you to run sudo or will tell you that access has been denied and that’s your tell tale sign that you need to use sudo before the command and run again.
When you want to update, you’ll run “sudo apt update” and the checks to see if you have updates available. If updates are available, it’ll generally say something like “5 updates found, run apt upgrade to perform upgrades” and you’ll then run “sudo apt upgrade” to actually perform the upgrades. This is pretty automated and it runs through everything for you after you do these. So any apps you have installed using apt will get their updates through this. Because of this, I generally will run through this once a week and see what needs updating. “Sudo apt update” and then “sudo apt upgrade”. Rarely will you run into errors but when you do, you’ll usually have clear wording in the terminal to tell you exactly why it failed or something you can put in Google to diagnose or share with a space like here to get help from others. Others may frown on me for saying this, but I’ve gotten a lot of help from LLMs with this stuff too. Granted you have to know some of it beforehand to know when the LLM is giving you good, helpful information and not something incorrect, but it’s been a help for me, personally, when troubleshooting arises.
If you make a mistake and install the wrong app or change your mind and no longer want it, uninstallation is as easy as “sudo apt remove steam” and following the prompts thereafter.
Some may recommend you do stuff like “sudo apt install steam -y” where the -y flag is to tell the command “if prompted for y or n, enter y” so you really automate the process for yourself. But I honestly don’t recommend that for people new to Linux because it’s better to know what you’re doing and read the prompts in the terminal and when you feel confident, then try some of those flags like that. It is one of the bad things about LLMs, because a lot of them will give you commands like that to run and it’s honestly better to not use flags until you’re sure of what you’re doing and what you want.
Honestly, if you’re familiar with docker containers and yaml files, it’s pretty much the same on Linux.
I manage my docker directly from the terminal. You’ll want to first install docker using “apt search docker” and then using commands to build my yaml and then compose within docker. But you can also use a variety of programs available to manage docker in a GUI, which is an app that has a graphical interface much like what most apps on Windows do if you’re more comfortable going that route.
Since you’ve already been using it and got some yamls made, you might be able to just directly transfer them over into your Linux build, whichever distro you end up going with and once you get docker installed and set up.
Debian ships official live images with desktop environments (KDE, LXDE, Xfce, Cinnamon, GNOME and MATE).
https://www.debian.org/CD/live/
You could try each and see which one you like.
There is also LMDE, Linux Mint Debian Edition. It's not bad.
https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
Can highly recommend Bazzite. You can install most applications and terminal programs no problem through flatpak/brew and config any well behaved package through settings files in your home directory anyways. If you really need specific system level packages, then it's quite straightforward tinkering to setup a GitHub repo that builds a daily image for you based on Bazzite. If you break something, you just roll back to a previous build.
And for testing out new "live" packages: you can! Just make sure you don't forget to persist them into your custom image if it turns out to be a useful addition.
I think I added just a handful packages on top of Bluefin (the non-gaming version) and it runs rather merrily.
Immutable sounds locked down, but to me it's more like highly reproducible tinkering. Just keep your home dir clean ✨
Try something conventional, with low maintenance and large adoption, and tailored for the home user, like as Linux Mint for instance.
Take your time there to learn the basics and get acquainted with the new environment.
Cachy is nice, and flashy and cool, but is a rolling release, sometimes it gets broken by some package update (...systemd), and it might need some tweaking to get a temp fix while the repo updates align to stability again. The good thing about cachy is that being based on Arch you're gonna fully benefit from Arch wiki which is nothing short of double amazing.
Bazzite too is very nice too for gaming setups, but I had a bad experience on the underlying Fedora atomic distro on which I was installing an old printer which required software was not in the repo and which were offered only as .deb packages (made for Debian), which required a socially unacceptable amount of time of tinkering. That means with Bazzite you're all set if your hw is very streamlined, but if you're using something peculiar you are on your own.
If you really want the latest updates for gaming, but also benefit from the large adoption of a debian based distro you can also try PikaOS, which is Debian testing release optimized for gaming experience, think about it like a Cachy based on Debian rather than Arch
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=pikaos
just keep in mind that in comparison to Mint it surely be less tested, and that anyway even with cachy vs mint in gaming tests the advantages of cachy are practically negligible, and the main difference in perf is given by gfx driver quality, in which specific case nvidia linux drivers are historically the black sheep of the story
Pika is friggen amazing. I started my Linux journey with Bazzite but kept having weird issues and switched to pika. Shit just works and doesn’t get in your way.
No this is generally put out there by people that don't understand the workflow of an atomic distro. Yes the file system directories are generally readonly. You can still layer packages, or use flatpaks and sysexts to add software or install things in a container. There is nothing much that can't be achieved in an atomic/immutable distro, its just a different workflow. If you want something unbreakable an atomic distro is the way to go
I would definitely give Bazzite a try. If you are looking for stability and a set and forget OS. If you don't like it you could always try something else.
If you are looking for something to tinker with and change things like manually changing packages or messing with services you probably want a more traditional "non-atomic" os
Don't let talk of the filesystem being "read only" scare you. You can still save files to your desktop and documents and stuff in your user folder.
In windows terms it's more like imagine
C:/windowsbeing read-only so you can't break your system. You can still write files to other parts of the drive, but it prevents you from messing up your install (some people like this added layer or stability, some don't like it because it makes tinkering with your system harder)An atomic OS is kinda like a phone OS, in the sense that every version of iOS 26 comes with the same version of Safari and the same libraries. It makes it so any bugs are reproducible and easier for the developers to track down. Packages are pinned to the OS version. (For example all installs of Bazzite 20260101 will include Nvidia drivers 590.44.01-1)
In a more traditional Linux distro because packages can be updated to whatever version if you install Ubuntu the version of Nvidia drivers is not tied to the OS version. You could have an install of Ubuntu 25.10 and could have a completely different Nvidia driver version from someone else on Ubuntu 25.10. This could make bugs harder to trace because you could have the same OS version but different packages. Think of this like even though you and a friend could both have (Windows 11 25H2 installed you could have different drivers installed)
As for updating Bazzite generally auto updates once a week in the background. It requires 0 manual intervention and keeps your packages and drivers up to date. You can turn this off if you wanted to. Since it uses a "image" based approach (again imagine upgrading from iOS 26 -> 26.1) it is able to save the previous version of the OS. So if the upgrade broke something you can roll your system back to a known good state with a single command.
If you are looking for something that's set and forget I would definitely give it a try.
If you want to tinker with it and figure out how Linux works I would probably try arch or something
Used both CachyOS and Bazzite. Bazzite works great for Steam Deck like device but for desktop daily driving CachyOS with Cosmic DE never got issues and I was distro hoping a lot before.
Why would anyone stick to one distro? Just jump in figure it out yourself. I had no help and I managed. Find a beater and beat it. I started on mint... now I run 4 distros. JUST DO IT! People will cringe but I like pop OS amoung many other. I just recently installed https://www.coreboot.org/ and linux on a old acer chrome desktop. The documentation was sparse and incomplete but by the grace of dog I got it working. It was a pain in the arse but pretty neato after I was done. I have it on a roling cart to test and set up routers or do things with networks when I need to connect externally to test stuff out. The struggle and the uncertainy is the point.... from there it will snowball into you wanting to install linux on every thing. But whats up with this BSD thingie... like I said crack some eggs!!! The feds can crack anything but the point of it all is to take control! Have you tried a bootable USB or virtual machine? I find all distros relativly stable clearly, windows or mac OSX have never met my standards anyways. Always back up your files. Thats my inflated 2 cents. Get some... get off the pot before you forget how to walk!!! Everyones got opinions like they got arse holes. PS. if it is a tower just add more bootable drives. Who cares if it fails cause you got it backed up! When things break it is a oppertunity to learn and cry.
@andybytes @ridethisbike Have to say I really disagree with this. Life is too short. Pick one and stick with it, it will serve you well for many years to come.
And for trying lots of distros and with a suitably sized USB stick, Ventoy will be useful. Great for storing a load of distros on a stick for live boots and testing versions.
However, there’s a caveat that not all distros support being booted by ventoy. IIRC Bazzite is one such distro and mentioned here a lot.
just download mint and distrohop from there until you feel settled. there's too many options to make a final decision from the start. mint works out of the box and you get get a hang of it.
OR use cachyos but prepare to open the archwiki frequently
bazzite is not meaningfully tinker-proof. Ask a person who says that what they can't do and they can never answer something that you actually can't do.
Check out Nobara. It is based on Fedora, comes out of the box with everything Bazzite has for gaming (Steam, gamepad/joystick support, etc..) but is not an immutable distro and not as heavily locked down.
I've been a Windows systems admin professionally for 20+ years and although I've managed a few Linux systems professionally, at home I've mainly used Debian for tinkering, running Docker, and dedicated servers for me and my friends. My personal PCs have always been Windows based.
I really wanted to use a Debian based distro, because its what I have most familiarity with, but there just isn't one that isn't Ubuntu based or updated frequently enough for the gaming I like to do. I'm sticking to Deb for my servers. Fedora is just as mature and reliable, and gives me the degree of control I want over system config without being cumbersome. I have some pretty specific network config and software requirements that necessitated some tinkering in /etc and .conf files that Bazzite was not going to let me do.
I also wanted a PC that just worked, minimal tinkering. I do not want to spend my gaming time trying to troubleshoot obscure Linux issues. My personal PC use is like 80% gaming. I have a good virtual infra home lab setup. A Synology NAS that holds my music/movies/file archives.
Nobara setup was a snap. Ditto installing Discord. Both webcam and headset were auto detected. I installed a few flatpak apps including VLC, Putty, Firefox (preferred browser). VLC was able to stream video/audio from my NAS without any additional changes.
Fired up Steam, installed Elite Dangerous, plugged in a T16000 HOTAS joystick and done. Was playing that same night. Ditto any games using my Xbone gamepad.
The only fishing I have had to do online for remedies and workarounds have been related to some small 3rd party apps I use to support games like Elite Dangerous. Most additional software I've installed via Flatpak, which is amazing. However, by design flatpak apps run in sandboxed environments and are not given full/free access to the file system. (this is a great thing). I've added Flatseal to give me a GUI for modifying flatpak app permissions when needed. (Discord, for example, needed additional permissions to allow me to copy/paste screenshots/pics into chat)
I created a separate partition for installed games. Most guides offering help on installed games assume games/apps are installed or looking in your /home folder, but for me it was on a separate volume, which required permissions tweaking or just looking in a different path.
I cut over during the holiday break. Overall, the transition has been seamless and painless.
Oh interesting. I've been live booting PikaOS so far just to see how difficult it is to get certain things up and running and... I don't know if it's the OS or if it's the fact that its live image, but getting certain things up and running so bar has been a pain. Docker didn't install easily (CLI was a pain compared to double clicking the .deb downloaded from Dockers website), and I couldn't get Jellyfin to HW transcode through docker, so I installed that through Pika's software discovery thing. Xbone controller wouldn't connect (but that could be a failed BT module on the mobo. I remember having issues with it on windows)... So yea... Off to a great start lol
If Bazzite is going to give even more problems then it sounds like I should stay away from it. The computer will mostly be doing server work, which it sounds like Debian might be the way to go?
The gaming aspect isn't going to be the latest and greatest games. Most couch co-op type games. My main PC is still on win10 for that stuff.
Does booting from a live USB restrict me more so than just commiting to an install on the boot drive? Is Ventoy limiting me? That's how I've been booting so far, but am about to flash to the USB to start the troubleshooting process
I don't think Ventoy would be the limiter there. It sounds to me like its the live distro version. Those can be restricted to running a few apps and being used to install the full version. Often things like hotplug devices don't work too well with live distros.
If the system is primarily going to be a server, I'd recommend Debian, but I'm definitely biased. It's stable, well supported, and documented. I normally install it with the Cinnamon desktop (just in case) and ssh server, and nothing else, then add what I need manually as I go. As a lot of folks in the comments mentioned, the biggest issue with the "stable" distros is that they stay stable by long delaying integrating new modules and drivers. Fantastic for a server, not so great for gaming rigs that are going to need the latest software, fixes, and developments.
My issue with Bazzite, even on a rig that was going to be primarily for gaming was anything else I wanted to do that was not just gaming. You can't install software from .rpm. I tried making some changes to .conf files via command line (using sudo and root) and was denied, so I just noped my way to Nobara. I'm still recommending Bazzite to a friend who also mostly games on his PC. He's not nearly as techie, doesn't have a complicated home network, and just needs something that will plug and play and let him game. And from my perspective as the person he'll call if something doesn't work, if it prevents him from breaking things, EVEN BETTER. xD
I think this needs to be clarified... I dont know anything that isn't going to be getting security updates fairly regularly, which you're going to want if its hooked up to the internet. Do you mean you don't want to have to reboot often? Because that's more doable, but bazzite is a bad choice for that, it can't apply an update unless it reboots because of the immutable file system. Also cachyos is arch based so you'd likely be wanting to run updates around weekly.
for those applications any distro that lets you use docker and docker compose. If you don't know how to use them, do yourself a favor and learn. It makes self-hosting so much easier and makes the base OS almost irrelevant.
Since you seem set on these two, go with Bazzite. Between Distrobox and Docker, Bazzite being an immutable OS seems like a non-issue. After you play around with it, if you feel like you want something that could potentially require more of your time but gives you a little more control, go with CachyOS but ensure you are using ZFS, btrfs, or some other file system that allows rollbacks.
I've distro-hopped a lot over the years. Ubuntu (most flavors), Fedora, Debian, Arch, Solus, EndeavourOS, CentOS, Alma, more I'm forgetting, and even some BSDs. Out of all of them, I keep going back to Ubuntu for my servers. I like the release cycles, it's never given me any issues that I didn't cause myself, the packages are new enough, the installer lets you set up ZFS and 3rd party tools/software (like Nvidia drivers), and there is a ton of documentation. I want my server to be an appliance, not something I tinker with, and Ubuntu does that really well. If I do feel like tinkering, I do it in a VM or container.
Docker has been the deployment method of choice, thus far, and the plan is to continue that method since I'm already familiar.
I'm not attached to either, I've seen a lot of people recommend them. Debian has gotten more than a few recommendations in this thread, so I'm checking out PikaOS now.
As much as I didn't want to, it's really seeming like I'm going to need to pick a few a test them out. Bazzite, CachyOS, and PikaOS are all on the list right now. Plan to install steam, install a game or two, and see how things go there. Followed up by a potentially small deployment of Jellyfin and a tiny library to see how easy it is to get hardware transcoding up and running.
You mentioned ZFS or other file systems... And that brings up another question I forgot to add to the OP.... As of right now. The plan is to have the media files on the 3 disk pool. I was planning on using ZFS for that, but hadn't landed on a FS for the OS drive and other storage drive.
Is it common practice to use one FS across all drives? Or would ZFS work well enough on its own for the pool and use a different FS for the OS/storage drives?
While you can put your root filesystem on ZFS and many people do it, it is considered a little more advanced setup and it's more common to run ext4 on
/and then zfs for mounted datasets on e.g./varand/home.A catch with ZFS is that it does not have a compatible license with Linux, which prevents many distros from shipping compiled modules directly. So the most common way to ship it is by DKMS, which (automatically) compiles the ZFS module from source. This is done by installing the
zfs-dkmspackage.The ZFS version obviously needs to be compatible with your kernel and sometimes it can take a while for ZFS to Linux. Arch does not coordinate releases so especially if you're not on the LTS kernel, you can run into situations where ZFS is no longer available after an upgrade. Furthermore,
zfs-dkmsis not in Arch repos but in AUR so you have to build even that from source for each upgrade of ZFS. Not recommended for beginners.That a partial or failed system upgrade can leave you in a place without ZFS modules is one reason why putting
/on ZFS is not more common.In debian, you just
apt-get install zfs-dkms.Alpine Linux maintainers decided to just ignore the license issue and ship a compiled
zfspackage including kernel modules.Nice 😎
The biggest problem you are going to have is the NVIDIA graphics card. As long as you overcome the hurdle of installing those drivers, any of the popular desktop OSs should be fine. Some people seem to get them going no problem but for others, it’s a show stopper. The OSs that have the option for installing the drivers during installation are nice for that reason.
Yeah. Unfortunately that’s going to be the best way to learn what you want from your OS. It’s equally frustrating and rewarding.
Depends on the environment, really; there’s no wrong answer. ZFS will work fine for its own pool. I would say a FS with snapshotting and rollback capabilities are almost a requirement for Arch based/rolling release distros. You never know when an update might break something.
I’ve been testing out ZFS on my OS drive for my personal server and it’s probably overkill because all the important stuff is on the ZFS pool with backups. My OS drive could shit the bed at any moment and I could switch it out with anything else because of that pool.
Given your requirements, absolutely I'd also recommend against Bazzite and CachyOS, at least today.
Debian stable. Enable security updates by
unattended-upgradesand you can basically go over a year without manually updating (aside from the occasional reboot to activate the newer kernel).Then if you're not already into containers, I propose learning about rootless Podman and using that to run your arr stack services. For example using docker-compose and/or systemd services.
If you don't mind going a little bit more of the beaten track, then I also encourage you to check out Alpine Linux. Their wiki explains how to install it with a read-only root filesystem which it sounds like you'd like. But since it's early and a commitment, maybe save this adventure for later.
Arch has a like 10x more update churn than Debian or sth and is not stable in the same sense.
For a more hands-on system, or something offline, Arch is still great.
What you are describing sounds like plain old debian. Stable thing that you can occasionnally update, perfect for all your server stuff. All my servers run CLI debian (probably won't be your case as you mentionned some gaming on it too) and I tend to forget about updating them (or even having them to be honnest) due to how stable the damn thing is.
If you have an amd graphics card, fedora (with kde) has been a surprisingly smooth drag and drop replacement for windows. Shits just worked.
choose something with a good track record that won't go away anytime soon
Just make a partition and install a distro: Try Bazzite(fedora); don't like it? Try Garuda(arch).
I just use fedora and install the stuff myself, which is probably similar to how Windows works since there's no "windows with steam and Nvidia drivers"
Don't use Debian on the gaming PC(or any "stable" or "lts" distro), everything will be out of date and Gaming on Linux typically needs the latest packages.
The big thing you probably will care about is the Desktop Environment; which is what you'll actually see when using the PC. There's Gnome, KDE and more, each distro will typically let you use pic which one to use.
Do you know about piping? It changed everything for me back then. People do the weirdest complicated things that are mostly a few piped commands. One command if you master awk 🤣 but let's not go there.
Only piping I've heard of is done in the bedroom 🤣
What's your version of it?? Lol
I believe it's when bakers make patterns on top of pastries and cakes with icing
Hehe, but seriously then you're yet missing the most awesome thing.
https://thelinuxcode.com/bash_pipe_tutorial/
You won't just replace Windows with Linux. You'll transition.
It takes some time, but it's not that hard and it pays in the end.
I had horrible experience with Bazzite. Installer somehow corrupted a separate win10 installation on another drive, I couldn't get Samba 1 to connect to a network share, 'ujust updating' caused boot to black screen, and in general the online support is abysmal compared to older more established distros like Ubuntu.
Wiped and installed (win10 again, and) Mint fixed all the issues. Samba 1 unlocking works so the network drive is accessible, updated everything with one click and it didn't crash on reboot, both OS's appear in the boot list, and it being much older the support is far easier to obtain as a newbie.
Literally just installed Mint (and reinstalled), a couple days ago so I'm as wet behind the ears as they come. IMO the people recommending Bazzite don't care of their system breaks and it takes 2 hours to fix every 2nd week (I assume this will improve as you gain xp with the BS/Bazzite Software).
Bazzite is designed to not break, it's part of what makes immutable so great. Your problems were likely external to the distro itself.
Not at all blaming you, bad experiences happen, especially when dual-booting, but by the very nature of being immutable it's as solid and stable as possible.
Mint has been rock solid for me. Not one crash in a year. Its easy and has some of the best support