San Francisco bakery sparks debate by refusing to serve armed police
Business says it doesn’t serve anyone who is armed
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-francisco-bakery-refuses-police-b2400745.htmlOpen linkView original on kbin.social654
Comments186
Private business, police are not a protected class, the end.
Don’t give them ideas
Idk gives me some costume ideas tho.
Introducing: SUPERCOP
That would blow up in their face at this point. None of them want a challenge to section 1983 now that we know the full text of the law. It would strip them if qualified immunity.
Lol! "Bigoted and discriminatory"! As if they were born a cop, had no choice to be anything other that a cop, and could never be without a uniform or a weapon. Fuck 'em.
My partner was a charge nurse on a psych ward for 16 years. Many of her interactions with police were as follows:
POLICE: buzzes the desk
My Parnter: Yes?
P: This is officer so-and-so with the so-and-so police department. We have a warrant for the arrest of a patient on your ward. Let us in.
MP: Okay, but this is a secure ward and firearms are not allowed. Surrender your weapons at the security office and I'll grant you access to make your arrest when you return.
P: I'M NOT SURRENDERING MY WEAPON!
MP: Well, then can't enter this ward.
end of conversation
ACAB = Assigned Cop at Birth
ABAB; Assigned Bastard At Birth.
ACAC: All Cops Are Criminals
ADAC All dicks are cops.
Husbando: Hey hun, you feeling in the mood tonight?
Wifey: The sign says no entry! You got that fucking search warrant signed by a judge?
They also have to check their guns when they go into places like prisons, so those guys are just idiots.
Yes, but that's to their friends; not people who should be obeying their instructions without question like the peasants they are.
So right. If they give up their lethal weapons how else can they be the most dominant person in the room?
What happened to those supreme court rulings they were so in favor of, that allowed poor little christians to blatantly discriminate against people they don't like
That sounds delicious to be able to tell them that. I got fired from a retail job I worked for five years for telling customers about the sign on the door that asks them not to carry. Got unemployment so at least the state knew it was bullshit.
"We ban firearms in this establishment."
"WE're cops!"
"Got a warrant? Otherwise, you're violating our rules and regulations and we ask you to leave."
Better yet, have them arrested for trespassing. LMAO
you can try.... I've actually been there. Sort of.
Used to work contract security. my client was next to a MLB ball field- their parking lot literally was next to the service entrance, so the various staff that weren't special (concessions, security, etc,) would park there. A lot of their ball game security are moonlighting cops or retired cops... they liked to tail gate after the game.... but the city would revoke the license for running a parking lot if we allowed alcohol.
Getting drunken cops to leave your property when the other cops tried to be like "what's the harm," etc is no good.
I guess just keep calling the cops just to get the record that you tried to get the alcohol off.
it's really not that simple. First, if you keep nuisance complaints, they'll fine you (or in my case, fine my clients. which would have me fired.)
secondly, you annoy the cops enough, they'll freeze you out regardless of what their policies/rules say, and as a security guard, you're reliant on them to come save you if you ever have an active shooter or, more likely, just an aggressive asshole who doesn't like being told they can't do whatever it is they're trying to do.
Well do it often enough that you can show the city department that you don't allow alcohol and tried to get them removed (as seen by police records).
This is not a good plan, you need to be responsible for your own safety because you can't count on the imaginary good guy cops to save you from anything. It may be 30 minutes before they show up, or they may not even show up at all.
This is the only plan we got.
Liability is a bitch, ain’t it?
…how’d that work out for those kids in Uvalde, tho.
Exactly the point. It didn’t.
That really is a tough one. The only chance you have is to escalate and demand the duty sergeant come down and deal with the problem of his unruly officers or make an extremely public complaint to the media and mayor that will force a response.
You could try the state police non-emergency.
Or find a parking/fire violation that the fire department would care about. I’ve seen them put cops in there place a few times. Even pushed a cruiser down the street in Boston when it was double parked in there way.
I wish I’d had a camera phone back then, I’m pretty sure they don’t report those kind of things into logs that end up in the paper.
Or not yielding.
Fun story time... a couple of friends of mine were walking home after a night of drinking and some cops pull over and get out and say, "two white men in dark clothes just robbed the gas station down the road and you fit that description." One friend said, "you're two white men in dark clothes so you fit that description too. I'm going to have to make a citizen's arrest." My other friend said the cuffs got put on them at light speed. They got charged with public intoxication. We don't know if the two white men in dark clothes were ever caught.
Lol…. So… uh. Please tell me your friend is putting that snark to use,
Sadly, he passed away. And only in his 20s. And yes, we lost a great comic mind. I say this as someone who has been paid to do stand-up and write comedy: he was far funnier than I will ever be. I still miss him 20 years later.
Damn…. I’m sorry man.
I'm sorry too, but that's life. And the older you get, the more friends you lose along the way. I'm just glad we were friends for the time he was alive.
something something gay wedding cake. Last I checked LEO isn't a protected class. And they aren't even denying LEO, just those that come in on-duty and are armed. So yeah, get fucked pigs.
Not all cops are bad. Don’t paint them all with the same brush.
Edit - Jesus y’all want to go lynch some cops. I wasn’t expecting so much bigotry from the crowd here. Confirmation bias is one hell of a drug I guess
Yeah! Just 99%. Don't lump them all together.
Not allll yardage yadda
The other 1% are also bad for just sitting idle.
That bunch is spoiled.
You sound like a racist.
Cop is not a race
When you're reeeeeally fucking dumb, it is
Eh, pig is technically a different species.
Yes, but they are intelligent, useful to society, and quite friendly with a tiny amount of socialization. None of that is true for the average cop. Remember, they HATE being called a Citizen On Patrol.
Pigs,of both variety, that aren't restrained turn feral very quickly and can become a massive problem.
Pigs are very nice creatures.
LEOs are boars, nasty things.
how is that racist??? are you implying cops are a race lol
Your privilege is showing…
Prejudice comes in many forms. Be better than that
How dare we be prejudiced against the largest criminal gang in the country!
In history. The US cops commit more murder, theft, rape, and assault than any other organization in history. They don't even have Qualified Immunity, according to the full text of section 1983, but that's not what was given to SCOTUS in 1982 when they heard Harlow V Fitzgerald.
It's not prejudice when literally all the evidence supports it. Maybe you'd be process that evidence more clearly without that pig cock cutting off your oxygen supply.
How in the hell do you keep from falling off that high horse?
Yes, they are. Good cops are actively forced out of police departments. It's a very well documented phenomenon.
Pretty much anyone who's a good cop isn't a cop anymore because they turned against the bad cops. The bad cops are still there.
Is it true the good cops aren’t cops any more cause they got kicked out?
In an overwhelming number of situations, yes. Cops are intended to prioritize property over people and convictions over justice. Those who speak out about injustices face retribution from their peers and little defense from their union. Police unions act as criminal legal defense to eschew responsibility.
There have even been legal cases of departments refusing to hire people because they were "too smart". This is largely speculated to be due to fear of those who are more intelligent speaking out, and having a moral compass of their own rather than blindly following.
Yep. I'm one of them. I applied to the cybercrimes division of the Lexington, KY PD in my naive youth and got an official letter saying they refused to hire me because they were worried that I would "get bored and pursue other employment." Asked a couple of my lawyer friends and they all agreed that was code for "we're afraid that you'll notice all the shit we do, and try to prosecute us" aka, "you're too smart."
Press X to doubt.
Doesnt surprise me, considering they were created to stop the poors rising against the rich.
https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing
This is just one of literally thousands of examples that I have seen over the last 30 years
It's also not even the case I was looking for when I googled "cop fired for not shooting to kill."
Cop is a job where all sorts of people, good and bad, go to become bad people. Acab
ACAB BOOTLICKER
Lol I have no idea what that means but it sure sounds like bigotry.
Confirmation bias is one hell of a drug buddy. Don’t be like the people you hate
They're the ones painting themselves.
What are the odds that the police take this snub badly and do something petty and vindictive in return?
Coppers do like their doughnuts.
1:1
fiddyfiddy
I'd be surprised if they didn't start harassing those bakeries, sadly
Cops don’t like hearing the word “no” when it applies to them
That Oregon bakery who refused to sell to a gay wedding ended up winning in the appeal, so if you can say “no gays” you can say “no ______”
They didn't actually win. It had the some procedural non-decision that the Colorado bakery case had (i.e. the regulator failed to be sufficiently neutral). They got fined again and that is being appealed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_v._Oregon_Bureau_of_Labor_and_Industries
They’ll keep appealing it down to nothing. It’s back in Oregon now, give it a few months. What a waste of tax payer millions. Just make the fucking cake.
'just make the fucking cake' is not something that you hear every day.
Post this on Twitter or similar and they will be jumping hoops to say it’s ok.
I dont have a Xwitter or a Metabook account
And your life is better for it, honestly.
That was kind of my point, I definitely dont think that they should be going to Twitter.
Police aren't a race, orientation or protected class. A cop can in fact remove his gun and uniform, it's not attached to his skin
They better have something on underneath it if they do that in public, tho.
Have you been to San Francisco?
Yes. People don't usually go around naked. Even during pride and even though it is legal.
It's too damn cold. 🥶
Just kidding yo!
I was going to say, "Actually that's not quite true in San Francisco", but it seems the law changed recently (2012) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_nudity_in_San_Francisco
Still, based on the existing laws, you could walk around in your underwear and be fine.
For "creative" endeavors, yes. If "creative" covers baking would probably be down to how good of a argument a lawyer could make is.
This policy doesn't seem weird to me at all, but I'm Canadian. I've seen establishments that don't allow weapons on site. So except in emergency situations, police officers need to secure their weapon before they enter the store (I think they put them in the gun locker in the trunk of their car?).
It's not weird. Cops are just butthurt that they can't be super special citizens that the rules don't apply to.
Or on the seat with the window down.
If its legal for someone to hypothetically not create a wedding announcement website for gay people because she doesn't want to serve those kinds of people, then there should be nothing wrong with not wanting to serve armed cops.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-rules-web-designer-refused-work-sex-weddings-rcna68629
Baking food and making coffee could be argued to be every bit as "creative" as a website can be if the lawyer is good enough.
One is outright discrimination based on sexual orientation. The other is simply a policy applied to all patrons.
It should absolutely be legal to say 'no shoes no service' or 'has gun no service' even if it was not legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation/race/gender/etc. They aren't at all the same thing.
Not in San Fran they wont. They let criminals run rampant but wont let anyone without Trump money get through the concealed carry permit process. Bruen should have fixed that but who knows if Cali will actually listen with Newsom putting that constitutional amendment to neuter the 2nd amendment out there.
SF has an extremely lot violent crime rate, so what exactly do folks need guns like that for? The “high crime rate” is property crime, like theft. Unless folks want to be out here shooting people for smash and grabs.
San Francisco is an unusual city when it comes to crime
cops arnt even people so dont see the prob at all
odds on there being an 'incident' at that location in the near future, and the cops responding stop at dunkin' for coffee and a donut while on the way there....?
There are only two Dunkin Donuts in SF. Mainly because they are terrible donuts.
So, basically 0.
Shit coffee, too. And I say this as someone from the northeast and currently living somewhere are nine Dunks within a one mile radius of my current location.
The coffee is better than Starbucks, but that's not saying much. Starbucks is only considered good because they add so much sugar and shit you can't taste the coffee.
See, as a coffee hater, I like Starbucks precisely because it’s not coffee. If a coffee hater likes your coffee…it’s not coffee.
Really? I've had a Starbucks Americano and it was fine. Although that's espresso, not drip coffee. Drip coffee in general is just swill. Especially when it's some "breakfast blend" bullshit. I've never had a blend that's good, but most single-origin coffees are fine.
The beans at Starbucks are over-roasted to maintain a consistent flavor across all locations. It doesn't really matter what you get. Espresso might be slightly better, but it'll always be over-roasted.
🤮
I would suggest Krispy Kreme, but I haven't seen one of those in CA.
Edit: looks like I'm going to Chula Vista. Haven't had a Krispy Kreme in years.
Does this police chief have beef with the MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, and every other major sports organization?
None of them allow firearms on site unless you are on duty
And an off duty cop just shot someone at the White Sox game last week
Welp they're gonna catch a massive fine, and their whole security staff is going to hate their jobs for the next few years.
It's not like they check for concealed carry though. I did security checks for a MLB team for a bit and I definitely waved through guns after they flashed a badge.
You might be interested to know that cops, judges, politicians, and all other government officials don't actually have Qualified Immunity according to the full text of section 1983 of the federal code. The SCOTUS wasn't handed the full text in 1982 when they heard Harlow V Fitzgerald. The text was changed illegally in 1874 by one guy when he copied the 1871 Congressional Record into the Federal Register.
Look up "16 crucial words that went missing from a landmark civil rights law" for more info.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/us/politics/qualified-immunity-supreme-court.html
Why would you go through that entire description and end with that instead of just linking an article about it?
https://irishchronicle.com/politics/16-crucial-words-that-went-missing-from-a-landmark-civil-rights-law/
(Having said that, thanks for bringing it up, I hadn't heard about this.)
(Not OP) Thanks but that particular article is AI generated garbage (or just thesaurus generated plagiarism) - you can tell when they replace technical terms like 'judgement' or 'decision' with synonyms like 'choice'
While the Cato Institute are some sort of libertarian think-tank, at least this is a real human-written article, and it links back to some better sources:
https://www.cato.org/blog/judge-willett-concurrence-highlights-qualified-immunitys-flawed-foundation
This is the original source that I saw
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/us/politics/qualified-immunity-supreme-court.html
Well dammit. Thank you!
Sure, they should be able to turn anyone away, no questions asked.
…Yeah, do you realize how bad taste it is to compare not letting cops in to Jim Crow discrimination against Black folks? Y’know, the people cops kill a lot?
I see what you’re trying to do, but…can you please not.
To you, and that “No colored allowed.”
Yeah, I know, which is why I said I get where you were coming from, but it was still in poor taste.
Everyone is misunderstanding your post. Add the words "your suggested policy could lead back to" before the sign you were referencing. I only finally got that context by reading the entire thread just now
Is being a law enforcement officer a protected class?
Saying something like “I refuse to serve you in the basis of your race” is illegal because race is a protected class. Whereas “I refuse to serve you because your Lemmy hit-takes are dumb” is perfectly legal! Same as refusing to serve armed thugs masquerading as the good guys.
I just had a situation with this at work that I talked to my wife about. A customer wanted us to do something with an image that had full frontal nudity and my bosses had to have a discussion about whether or not to allow it. My wife said, "aren't they required to?" I pointed out that if that was true, we wouldn't be able to refuse Neo-Nazis.
For some more context this place, reems, really isn't a bakery so much as a middle eastern take out place. The main store is currently closed down though so the only place they have open is a counter serve food court style place in the ferry building, so the cops didn't get kicked out of the place, they either went to the counter and the cashier refused to serve, or more likely, they saw the new policy online and threw a hissy fit without actually going.
The founder is a Palestinian leftist, so this probably was targeted towards cops/military.
I'd highly recommend going here if your on a tourist trip and end up in the ferry building, not just for the cop hate, but there wraps are great as well.
Since armed police is not a protected class then I hardly think it matters.
Can we stop posting articles from The Independent. Its literally owned my a Russian media mogul with ties to Boris Johnson and whose father worked in the KGB
I believe you, but sauce?
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-40762906
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-boris-johnsons-friendship-with-evgeny-lebedev-deepened-despite-mi6-concerns-56bl5hklb
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-strange-world-of-evgeny-lebedev/
TIL. Thank you, Internet stranger
You're welcome fellow internet stranger
There is no debate, the bakery is private property. Fuck off pigs. Also please immediately respond if I call 911 kthxbye
yes and also yes. They have a job they agreed to do, and fuck them right off into the unemployment line if that hurts their feelings.
Based bakery. If the sporting goods store where they bought the piece makes people not carry and they respect that then they should respect other stores that ask people not to.
Oh these poor disenfranchised pigs!!
Based lmfao
Take it a step further and say you don't serve any living cops, but you'd be more than happy to cater their funeral.
Catering to a cop funeral means serving living cops
Its fair. Bakers shouldn't have to serve anyone, for any reason or no reason.
Then cut their arms off!!!! Bwhahaha
/Lamejoke
And surgically replace them with bear arms, which is constitutionally protected!
We have had a surprising high number of bakery related controversies. I think I will continue to shop at my local supermarket bakery. I want a cake not to have to make a statement.
Sounds like someone wants to have his cake and eat it too lol
I do. Who wouldn't want that? Are you telling me if infinite cake that always took up the same amount of space was an option you wouldn't want it?
Seriously. Far less quicksand, killer bees, crocodiles in sewers, nuclear war, and global cooling than I was brought up to expect.
Far more bakery controversies and fascists than my childhood led me to prepare for, though.
Read the Madness of crowds. He has a whole chapter on the number of people who were fined, imprisoned, murdered over how pointy shows can be and how much or how little facial hair a man can have.
Enjoy your disgusting supermarket cake
I will and you won't get a single piece.
If the police are the solution, why is the "city going to hell with crime" as the police budgets continue to skyrocket?
So your logic is that the media / politicians hurt the feelings of police, so they are doing a shitty job now? Boy what great heroes they are huh.
Fuck them, I don't need any of them around. I can handle anything I encounter better than they could anyway.
Why should the citizenry respect the cops, when they show utter contempt for the law? None of them willingly or unwillingly abide by section 1983 of the Federal Code.
I'm sure what the shop owner wants it to mean is that they go eat their donuts elsewhere. Safety of their firearms is the responsibility of the cops, not the bakery owner in any case.
Yes you are. Idk how u even said that with the boot in Your mouth.
And some are unnecessarily rude. Fortunately, that's what blocking is for.
Yes, because a cop or armed, law abiding, civilian pose great harm to a bakery...
They don’t want their customers to have to worry about guns. Their policy makes perfect sense to me.
Makes total sense, this policy will prevent criminals from bring firearms into the bakery too. They'll see the sign and find somewhere else to rob at gunpoint
Man, it must be so awful to be so terrified of everything that you think the entire world is a constant threat you have to be armed and guarded against.
OMG THE CITY IS GOING TO HELL WITH CRIME LOOK AT ALL THE DEAD LINING THE STREETS IT'S ANARCHY!
Ease up grampa
businesses often give police discount to be in best terms in case they are needed, i know it shouldn't be that way, but still you wouldn't want to do the opposite
That sounds a lot like protection payments to me
It's different here because that's an unspoken rule.
It's an unspoken rule with the mafia too. They just tell you it would be a shame if anything bad happened to your business.
So bribing them? I thought that was only mexico police force but at last, they are no different.
at IHOP we gave them 50% off, i thought was too much, owner of the store said he liked them sticking around
🤮
I avoid business with cops. I go to the shit side of town for ice cream, because cops like to hang out at the nearby ice cream place.
Fuck you anti-cop assholes. Get robbed, get mugged, get in an accident, lose your kid, need some help, and see what song you're singing then.
Most of them are good people doing good, noble work, and I'm not going to apologize for saying that and standing up for the profession. Screw y'all for painting them all as bad, just because some indeed are.
Judge people individually instead of painting them as all the same. That's the same mindset as a racist.
I come from a cop family, and I hate this argument. Of course people are going to call the police when shit happens. That is literally the only option available to reasonable and lawful people. Doesn't mean police haven't actively damaged their reputation with decades of abuse and corruption, and force the decent cops out if they try and buck the trend.
Police in general have some major issues right now, and first among them is outright denial there are any issues at all. Just look at 2020 where the first protests were met with immediate escalation and violence (it was like day 1 we had videos of cops shoving elderly people to the ground. They cracked that one guy's head open). Tone-deaf and completely dismissive of concerns raised by their own communities. Nothing has improved since then, in fact the police seem to have deepened that ' us v. them' mentality.
I'm not saying I agree with banning armed police, but I can agree that this type of stuff is where we're headed with the route police and their most ardent supporters are taking. Policing took a bad turn back when cops starting calling non-police 'civilians', as if police were a military branch. "Community policing" is dead, and it's no surprise the reputation went with it.
Like statistically the cops actually help in any of those situations.
And like the police aren’t the biggest thieves out there.
Any good cop left on the force knows all about this shit, calling into question how 'good' they are.
The police say the same thing about everyone who isn't them. "Fuck 'em". And that's exactly how I feel whenever I hear anything bad happening to them.
They're all guilty. Shutter the doors, fire them all and hire from a different psych profile, barring the current one, forevermore.
I am in the most dangerous for my life when I am in the presence of a cop, plain and simple, no context needed. These are stats. Facts not feelings. Since 2000 the police have stolen more from the public thru civil asset forfeiture than all other crime combined.
All cops are bad. All. Complicity is condoning. Criminals have invaded and took over the civic institution. Acknowledgement of this isn't a call for social anarchy. Acknowledgement of this is recognizing that anarchy is already here. The law applied unequally deserves no respect. Those on the top know they'll never see a cell. Those on the bottom know they will no matter their innocence, and that's a best case scenario. No respect is warrented. The lack of respect is entirely earned.
Ban them from public positions and office. Seize their pensions to pay a pittance towards restitution. They broke the public trust, I am not responsible for their public disdain. No one ever wrote a song called 'Fuck the firefighters'. Fuck 'em.
While I agree with your overall point, this song does in fact exist FYI.
Aw shit. Now I gotta go find this bitch.
I had heard of it but not listened to it.
Now I have.
It appears to also be an anti-cop song, just by metaphor. 😂😂 Sorry cops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JkrJUAg8aI
Not too mention that cops in the US got their start as the militant wing of the capitalist class, enforcing property rights for rich slave owners. ACAB. If they weren't, they'd have chosen a different profession.
They're a criminal gang. They murder, they rape, they steal and they even drug traffic.
They're a criminal gang that holds cities hostage by telling them they can't live without them.
Not just thievery. They commit more rape, murder, and assault than anyone else as well, the statistics are self reported so what we know about is only the tip of the iceberg
[citation needed]
I have been robbed a few times, mugged twice and have been involved in a hit and run. In none of those situations have the cops ever done ANYTHING to help, legitimately not a single thing. They come take a statement, look around for 30 seconds then fuck off never to be seen again.
But when I spent a few months homeless they were great at harassing me and threatening me for daring to try and find a safe place to sleep.
Fuck cops, and fuck mindless boot lickers like you.
At least they showed up for you. I had my car broken into and was robbed, called the police to file a report and they straight up asked me "so like what do you want us to do about it?". No one ever showed up to check it out or even asked if I had any security camera footage. They took my report and that was the end of it.
💀
Cops don't stop crime they just show up afterwards. What planet do you live on dude, get a clue. Maybe your bfuck little town only has cops who you're buddy buddy with but open your eyes and look at all the police abuse videos. That's what you're supporting when u support the police. You're saying that stays quo is ok. That makes you a shitty person by definition.
If you leave a rotten apple in a bunch of apples, you end up with a bunch of rotten apples. A good cop would stand up and call for reform. They don't last long. The bad apples have already spoiled the bunch.
A bad apple spoils the bunch, as they say.
Getting a lot of mileage out of this one I'll admit.
Well, I'm singing the "please fill out this form for my insurance company" song if I get robbed, mugged, in an accident. In the case of the missing kid, it depends. Sometimes they'll mobilize if the family's a "good family" as far as they know, but a lot of times they'll just tell you the kid ran away and not look. So I might be very well singing the "please do a video on this" song to the true crime community on youtube.
There was a story recently about a 13 year old girl in Mississippi who was forced to give birth because of their anti-abortion laws. She had been raped at 12 by a stranger while playing outside in her yard. The cops did absolutely nothing about the case until Time Magazine called them about the story they were doing on the girl.
If cops won’t even look for someone raping children in broad daylight, what are they even for?
None of them abide by section 1983 of the Federal Code. Therefore they are all criminals.
The song where there is no one else we can call in those situations, in some cases are legally required to call in those situations, and where their job isn't "do those things for people who like cops" it's "do those things."
The song where I will weigh the likely harm that will come from the arrival of police against what I think I need their help with.