Leaked documents claim 'US wants to convince four countries to quit EU' in bid to 'Make Europe Great Again'
cross-posted from: https://lemmings.world/post/38211357
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/trump-eu-make-europe-great-again-5HjdPH2_2/Open linkView original on lemmy.zip444
Comments172
What a coincidence that the MAGA USA's policy towards Europe is almost indistinguishable from Russia's!
The American policy has been exactly this long before Trump. The literal main and pretty much only obstacle to a European army and a European Federation has been the USA, constantly using their leverage and economic/military power to block any such plans from progressing.
Why would US billionaires hand over control of their country to Russia? They can't be that incompetent and elections are not free enough that it could happen against their will.
It's not coincidence, but I doubt the Russian influence.
Because a) he's a Russian asset (apparently) and b) they have incriminating evidence on him and probably a bunch of other billionaires. Also, if they could spend a few billion in return for control of pretty much they would, they'd be willing to pay for it.
Apparently. It must be part of Flooding the Zone. Everybody has an explanation that is useless because it hides the real motives. Why would the elite accept a known Russian asset? It's a rumor since the 80ies.
Against all billionaires? As in the KGB could have won if they would have had it 10 years earlier? The US billionaires own the media. What could happen if something comes out?
True, but how could they outspend US billionaires?
You might have sense on your side, but it can be very difficult for a reasonable person to make sense of the influence Putin seems to have on Trump. The man is clinically disloyal, but he takes Russia's side more often than not.
There could be compromat, but that alone would strongly arouse his ego defense mechanisms. The whole thing might be entirely predicated on flattery. It's the most disappointing possibility, and we discount it at our peril.
That's the point. Flooding the Zone, to paralyze the voters. The political fabric is remade but people only watch and don't know who is responsible or whom to support to regain influence. Putin is out of reach unless people are ready for WW3. So all thoughts end there.
I had hoped to see the Russian regime collapse by now. I hope it doesn't come to that, war is the ultimate failure of imagination.
War is inevitable unless the US step down voluntarily. China is outpacing western innovation. If the US wants to remain the hegemon they have to break China soon.
Russia is a piece in that puzzle, nothing more.
I'm ready I'd fight him and trump, if it could ever be a fair one, I ain't afraid of these bootlicking 2in dick havin fuckeads
Fuck outta here ya nazi russian bootlicker. if I seen or heard you say this in real life they will never remove my foot from your ass
By which reason? Do I say anything positive about Russia?
What's your reason to believe that Trump is a Russian asset?
I can't explain how the US billionaires could accept Trump. Please explain to me how that can be possible.
They want to control you, it's the story of history, live free or die trying, fuck trump, hang billionaires, putin suicide him outta window like he's done to many others. Never bow to any man
Billionaires dont care as long as number go up.
Have you seen these billionaires? They absolutely can. The myth of their competence is pure propaganda.
Also, they like corruption because it offers many opportunities for those with enough money to pay. And they like oppression of workers because it provides a ready pool of cheap labour to exploit.
They'll be looking at Russia and liking what they see, because they don't see themselves being the ones working for pennies and being sent to die in Ukraine. And they all think they're the smartest guy in the world ("why else would I have so much money?") so they don't see themselves being fucked over by Putin either. For them Russia is the promise of doing whatever you want, taking advantage of whomever you want, and getting whatever you want.
Only videos, but they don't seem to be stupid.
Even if they do, why hand over the country? They control the US.
What can't be done in the US?
Elon Musk and Donald Trump have proven that intelligence, competence, and charisma are not important factors in someone becoming obscenely wealthy.
They are not representative. Most billionaires act differently.
Yes, most billionaires keep quiet. Doesn't change the fact that just because they are billionaires that doesn't mean they can't also be complete idiots.
Some are, but without hard evidence I don't believe that they knowingly have let a Russian asset come to power who hands over the US to Russia.
Other things are happening and Trump's Russia connections are a distraction.
Europe needs to rally together to survive this. Russia is beatable, but you need to activate.
I wonder what Europe meddling in American elections is going to look like
It sure as hell can’t hurt
Ahh my free healthcare and public transit. Don't hurt me.
If it’s as inept as their defense strategy don’t expect much
Yes, please.
We helped them with their fascist problem a while back, it's only fair.
You overestimate the independence of Europe. This is all flooding the zone while the US rebuild Europe anyway.
Given what it took to put that particular beast to sleep, a lot of leaders are nervous to wake it back up.
I agree something needs to be done, but the idea of a militant Europe again is a worrying thought.
Too many years being nanied by the US...
There, saved you a click.
3/4 Fascist. What a coincidence.
If you assume every country is a US-style presidential autocracy, 4/4.
All filled with either Russian or American assets, maybe except Poland to some extent. But even that is likely to change after the next elections.
Hey UK, how is brexit going?
It has taught a lot of Brits how good being in the EU was (by taking away the benefits). All the "advantages" have also evaporated like pixy dust.
It has also done the same for lot of people in the rest of the EU who before believed the same far-right populist fables about how great it would be to leave the EU, which is why the far-right in those countries doesn't talk about that anymore.
I lived in a couple of countries in the EU and my impression was that Britain was the best candidate of all in the EU to fall for the whole "We would be better of outside the EU" because they were the ones who looked back to the years before entering the EU and mainly saw a great Great Britain (an image relentlessly beautified and pushed by local media right, which is why even now almost a century after it a "new British film coming out about how Britain pretty much singlehandedly won WWI" is still a regular event and news about international affairs in Britain tend to be either spinning Britain as having great influence in the World or "look at that tupid thing happening in that country, this would never happen in Old Blighty [as we're superior to those foreigners]" news pieces) so it was easy for such Delusions Of National Greatness to be turned into Brexit by outside influences (namely, American - just look up who funded Cambridge Analitica to spread pro-Leave propaganda).
After the subsequent shitshow with the "most likely nation in the EU to fall for Alone We're Stronger bollocks" none of the larger nations left in the EU (which are just mid-sized nations in World terms) have any illusions that leaving would make them better of (plus people there already had fewer delusions of greatness to begin with than Brits), whilst the smaller nations never had any fond memories of time before the EU when they were little more than kicking balls for the bigger nations, to begin with.
All this to say that the country were an EU exit was most easy to leverage by foreign interests has already had that happen and the result stands as an example that further deters the idea of leaving in the few EU countries were the idea that "we were stronger alone" ever had more than a handful of believers.
That racks with what it looks like from here. It was also a perfect storm of events to cause it. The old wanted the glory of the empire back. The young were lashing out at the PM for unrelated reasons. Enough of the middle aged brought into Boris' lies.
That combined with leave having an excellent campaign, while remain were lackluster to non-existent. Lastly, enough remain voters couldn't comprehend enough people being stupid enough for it to matter, and so didn't bother voting.
The rich then latched onto it, and ran away with it. It let them both firesale the UK economy, and dodge some embarrassing tax rules Europe was bringing in.
I'm glad there has been some benefits to it. Even if they are just "look at what happened to those idiots, don't do that!"
My theory is that the Remain campaign was so weak because, after decades of both the traditional Tories and New Labour blaming the EU for anything bad that happened in Britain and for unpopular measures (most notably measures which they themselves introduced and pushed for at the EU level), actually admitting the good things of the EU would make obvious they previous lies and deceit, so instead they just restricted themselves in that campaign to only these things which wouldn't contradict their previous words, at that was pretty much just "staying in the EU is good for Britain, trust us", a weak message at a time when (not least due to the 2008 Crash and the subsequent choice for "Money for Bankers, Austerity for the rest") the trust in mainstream British politicians was already pretty low.
Crap. Absolute crap.
And we're down in growth by 6% to 8% according to economists.
I wonder where Poland would be without the EU...
No where near current development state, and people know that - huge percentage of people are pro EU.
I mean Hungary already acts like it's not part of it when it comes to anything regarding foreign policies. At this point I'm they seem to just be mooching off the economic benefits.
I don't think they'd quit though. They're benefiting too much. They bark but won't bite I think.
Kick them out
Yeah hahaha, if Trump can convince them to leave voluntarily that 'd be the best thing happening to the EU in years.
Unfortunately, the EU was built without a mechanism for removing a member state.
And while Orban might be a disgusting corrupt cleptocrat grifter, he isn't dumb and knows all too well that the source of all that nice money he and his buddies are stealing would dry up the instant Hungary left the EU.
The German auto industry is gonna get up in arms at the mention of that, deploy lobbying armies against it.
That's Orban not the people, we'll see in February IIRC when he gets the boot. Even with his anti democratic maneuversvit seems unlikely that he'd get reelected. I sure hope so too.
They became the poorest country in the EU but benefits the most, fuck that scum traitor.
And welcome back Hungarian people!
Or they do, and everybody else acts as if the EU has to be a country like the US.
Unanimous means that a country cannot be forced to act against their will. That was the promise of the EU, economic benefits with political independence. Demanding more is bait and switch.
You have a bunch of crap takes up and down this thread.
In which way do you disagree?
I noticed that nearly everything that I saw that was ill conceived, misleading, inaccurate or downright wrong, missing the while point, or just plain nasty in this thread was written by you.
Thanks for the feedback. I will try to scale down the nastyness but I have no idea how to be more correct. As far as I know my statements are correct. What do you think is wrong? E.g. in this thread, originally, the countries were supposed to be independent. Of course, some people have always wanted the EU to be a single country, but that's not how it was sold.
In 1993?! Or 1957?! Make the EU the EEC again!? The only good way to live is in the past? Back to the golden age of low consumer, worker and human rights! Less economic power and regulatory influence globally! Yay! /s
How reactionary is that?
But it's not just that. It's the other bad takes. They're nearly all yours.
So this is it, this is how Trump finally starts WW3
I see it for Hungary, maybe Poland of they get a PIS gouvernement again but Italy and Austria? Won't happen.
Even the Piss Party isn't dumb enough to leave the EU and its bountiful benefits.
And if they do there will be massive protests I suppose
Hungary leaving EU? Oh pleeeaaassse i can only get so wet!!
hungary is the welfare state of the EU.
It wouldn't be so bad short-term, since it'd stop Hungary from veto'ing everything. However, long-term, losing any EU members is terrible. Especially considering there are already plans to remove veto by moving to qualified majority voting.
No matter what, we need to stick together. Now more than ever. All EU member states are our friends and allies, despite some of them being problematic. The solution is helping the nations with their corrupt governments. Not abandoning them. That's not unity.
I guess the majority of eu citizens hate hungarians by now. what a douche country. i wonder what drives these small dick energy countries forward. look at serbia. same small dick energy like "oh we hate diversity. lets get butt fucked by russia" instead of growing their own balls.
so yeah, fuck the hungarians!
Not hungarians. The government of hungary
My only problem with Hungarians is that they keep re-electing Orban, and even then I understand that given his control of the Press over there, most who do it are just being daily brainwashed to do it.
That said, a Hungary Leave might just be the jolt that's needed to change things there (and it would isolate the rest of us from their problems plus would seriously dampen the prospects of any Orban-similar far-right in the rest of Eastern Europe), though there is a risk for Hungarian that the place turns into a hard autocracy controlled by Russia like Belarus and thus can't actually get back to Democracy for at least several decades.
Hungary's elections are very very far from "free and fair"
Well, since I don't know enough in that front, I didn't mention it either way and hoped for somebody more familiar with it to comment!
That said, the "it will give Hungarians a jolt" theory still applies, tough in this case is for more "assertive" actions than merelly voting differently (which in a situation were elections aren't "free and fair" would be their only option to stop autocracy, even inside the EU) which does have a greater risk of things just getting worse (or maybe not: theoretically the end of money from the EU and of easy access to the EU should push the Hungarian Elites which are "fine with a little autocracy as long as we keep making money" to turn against Orban).
that explains all the protests....not.
There are tons of protests.
What's your beef here? Some personal vendetta against Hungarians? You missed out on cheap Lake side property around Balaton or something?
Hungary's elections are very very far from "free and fair"
I don’t think Poland would ever actually leave the EU. Every poll says that poles love being in it even if the far right complains a ton. As someone who lived in Poland between 2005 and 2020 the improvements from being in the EU are so noticeable it would be suicide for the country to actually leave.
Oh no, Trump, please. Please don't convince Hungary to leave. Anyone but Hungary! They're the economic and democratic backbone of the EU.
Step 1 to Making Europe Great Again: Ignore every idea that comes directly from a Make America Great Again mouth piece.
Step 2: Educate the member states' populations so they stop voting in fascists.
Step 3: Congratulations, you're done!
this has putins stink all over it, if its not obvious already.
IMO: the Americans are adversaries now.
The American government, absolutely. They've been pretty open about it.
Who needs enemies when you have friends like this?
The #1, 2, 4, 5, and 9 economies.
The US was never anybody's friend.
At best they were partners of convenience and only for as long as it they gained from it.
Remember that even before Trump American interests were pushing for Brexit to weakening the EU, for example by funding Cambridge Analitica to spread pro-Leave propaganda in Facebook.
Countries don't have allies, they have interests.
just wish the US cared about the US's interests, atleast. can't even pretend thats the case anymore
In any other world, where facts actually matter, "friends" like this would be called what they are: Enemies.
Isn't Trump's whole thing about stopping foreigners from interfering with your country and cultural erosion? Why's he enforcing HIS ideals on others?
@aarRJaay
Wait. You hope for coherence? _There_, in that cesspool of what may have been a mind once?
Introspection and understanding hypocrisy is the furthest thing I would expect from him
Typical ultranationalist hypocrisy
So "Make X great again" just means bringing enshittification to the state level yeah?
They never said for whom they're making it great.
And we're simping for FUCKING Russian interests‽
Lots of people are brainwashed by social media.
Such a shame that famous people are not jailed for spreading lies
You know what would be to make europe great again? It would be getting rid of the united snakes and it's proxy in the middle east
I absolutely cannot approve insulting snakes. Or any other innocent animal for that matter.
We can't use symbolism anymore? There are other context where snakes has positive symbolism
Poland, Hungary. Could he really imagine that they would ever serve HIM? (and not his boss in the east)
Austria LOL. Delusional. They dream of the swiss way.
Italy. They may be right wing, but never that stupid.
@Zwuzelmaus
> […] They may be right wing, but never that stupid.
… we hope. People’s stupidity can be staggering. Just look at what’s been happening in MAGA land.
I agree, the stupidity of some people can be shocking. Just look at brexit. In Poland there are some minor voices for polexit, but for now it is ridiculed by majority. In 10-15 years imho it can change, since thanks to disinformation campaign done by russia we see that many people changed their opinion about Ukraine. It’s heartbreaking.
It's not only stupidity, it's pinpoint targeted propaganda and fear-mongering at less keeeping-up-with-the-times people. It's basically foreign countries heavy-handedly meddling in internal country matters to sow chaos and gain relative advantage.
People will always be the weak point of any system, scapegoating them won't fix anything, there has to be a better protection from foregin (or internal) un-democratic interferences.
Americans were only portrayed as strong and smart, like soviets socialism realism art movement portrayed soviets as strong and hard working "good" people. Nice propaganda eh.
I mean we all grew up with those badass americans in movies and books, a huge bias IMO.
Europeans have a huge cultural edge here IMO but I'm biased on that front ofc. We'll see, interesting times...
That would be great!
Let's start with
kicking outsaddly (*sniff *, *sniff*) having to see the departure of Hungary.I mean, just look at Brexit: one side got seriously fucked up (instant fall of 20% of their currency and slowly dropping further behind economically ever since - the dream of a Economic Powerhouse Britain are gone and burried now: just ask even the most rabid Brexiter to list their Brexit Dividends) whilst the other basically just went over a small speed bump. I'll leave it as an exercise for the readers which side got which consequences.
PS: That said, having seen the consequences of Brexit is exactly why no EU nation is likely to ever take Donald on this - after that shit show the far-right in Europe went really silent really fast on the whole "we must leave the EU" they were so loudly demanding just a few months before.
PPS: Also as a person from a small EU country, lets just say we're very much aware of just how the big boys would fuck us up if we left the safety of the pack - unlike in Delusions Of Grandeur Britain the public opinion in little nations doesn't want a return to the way things were in 70s when they were the "punching bag of the big boys". Meanwhile the larger EU countries - which are all merelly mid-sized in World terms - after having seen what happened to Britain post-Brexit know with absolute certainty they have far greater influence being in the EU than they would outside, which is why even Italy with a well entrenched far-right government hasn't distanced itself an inch away from the EU. Only some totally out of control shit-show of a nation in the thrall of the nuttiest of nutter far-right would even just consider this and, frankly, them leaving the EU would be great for the rest (not least because, as it happenned with Brexit, it would at least temporarilly dampen the far-right in all the other countries)
Hungarian here, all that would achieve is to give Orbán even more power. Any consequence would just been propagandized away. "Failing economics? It's the fault of the far-left EU! Anyways, now I can jail journalists and opposition politicians; and make them commit suicide in prisons in the Epstein way!"
Hungary is not the Orbán government.
UK is doing just as badly as the rest of Europe.
The actual benefit is being out of the environmental disaster that is the Common Agriculture Policy.
Actually Britain is doing 6 to 8% worse that the rest of the EU and that's just in reduced Economic Growth.
Its influence in international affairs has also fallen steeply - one thing is to be a mid-sized country with a significant ability to move a block of 540 million people, a whole different thing is to be just another mid-sized country.
Having lived there at the time, I keenly remember how Britain was supposed to become once again an Economic Powerhouse (with Return To Past Greatness implied, rather than openly stated as in the US). Such fanciful bollocks is now well dead and burried.
Let's not forget that said Greatness was achieved via colonialism, a detail a lot of Brexit's proponents conveniently forget
Good old Winston Churchill was quite the Genocider back in his day in India...
Actually it isn't. You're talking about synthetic counter factual models which are bullshit
Compare the UK against it's actual doppelgangers, France and Germany, and we are all very much in the same boat. No growth and lots of debt.
The UK's systematic productivity problems all occurred while in the EU, not after it left.
And no our soft power hasn't been hurt at all https://brandfinance.com/insights/global-soft-power-index-2025-the-shifting-balance-of-global-soft-power
The UK is now free to regulate under common law, not the innovation smothering, precautionary principled yawn fest that is Roman civil law
Sure mate, the Brexit Dividend Is Just Around The Corner And Will Begin At Any Moment Now and The Fall Of The British Pound Just Makes Britain More Competitive.
Meanwhile in the real World back in 2016 you could get 1 EUR for 0.7 GBP and now it costs 0.87 GBP so the World thinks everything Britain is worth 24% - British inflation hasnt been higher than Euro Zone inflation so the fall in the GBP hasn't been offset by an increase in GBP valuations - and my old savings when I lived and worked in Britain (which were transfered out of the GBP just before the Leave Referendum results) are worth 24% more in EUR than they would if they stayed in GBP (purely from betting against the British Pound, not counting actual investment returns since).
Mind you, Europe is fucked. It's just that Britain is even more fucked. It's like most countries in the EU doing some stupid post 2008 Crash shit that fucks them up and Britain going "Hold my beer!"
Lol, the fall in the pound made our services exports even more competitive.
Come back when you've learned something beyond the headlines
That "strangely" specific metric you quote conveniently forgets the trade balance in goods which more than offsets services so now with a currency which is 24% weaker - which makes everything Britain worth less and supposedly is better for trade - the UK's total trade balance is actually worse than in 2016 (source)
I see that the Brexiter tendency to blindly believe in self-congratulating nationalistic Sun newspaper headlines and not actually googling for easilly available economic figures has remained unchanged in the last decade.
Good old Brexiter cherry-picking is alive and well.
Also it's hilarious that you pretty much parroted my "The Fall Of The British Pound Just Makes Britain More Competitive" charicatural Brexiter line based on actual Leave Campaign bollocks. Our exchange reminds me of the old days!
Yawn, UK goods exports to the EU has been in decline for decades. 0.29% of UK companies stopped exporting to the EU. Big fucking deal.
Meanwhile services are up 75% since 2016.
What would you rather have? Polluting high carbon goods trade or high margin low carbon services?
As I said, the benefit was leaving the CAP. If you knew anything about it, like it takes the largest slice of the budget, is subject to political capture by wealthy landowners, and has destroyed our environment with terrible incentives.
If you actually understood the impact currency changes have you wouldn't post this tripe In a Weird Trump Initial Caps Style That Makes You Sound Like A Retard
How does the UK run its agriculture now? Do they do subsidies? In what way? Do they protect their produce market through import policies?
Subsidies have completely changed. The new agriculture policy is light years ahead of the EU's, which has weakened green farming due to landowner pressure
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/environmental-land-management-update-how-government-will-pay-for-land-based-environment-and-climate-goods-and-services/environmental-land-management-elm-update-how-government-will-pay-for-land-based-environment-and-climate-goods-and-services
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/eu-agrees-relax-green-rules-farming-subsidy-reform-2025-11-11/
"we plan to" "we intend to" "Our Environmental Improvement Plan, to be published in January 2023, will provide more detail."
Seems like that publication is quite old, and before implementation. I see the sentiment, but I have to wonder how well it was implemented and still have to wonder how different it is. While the EU did cut back on green requirements to reduce bureaucracy, they've also always had subsidies and rules regarding "green" concerns.
Yes, implementing a new agriculture policy obviously requires the future tense. We have to undo 50 years of perversely incentivised destructive practices.
The point is we can.
https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article-abstract/38/1/112/6514751
Is this a reputable news source?
LBC is a talk radio station/company, but they also do more serious journalism and podcasts. They platform a broad range of views, but tend to give the prime time slots to hosts on the right.
Reasonably credible.
Grand, thanks. I’ve just never heard of them before
Who needs enemies with allies like these?
See? I told you this shit was gonna leak and start becoming your problem, too.
There is always shit leaking out of Donnie's diaper. Of course, this is a problem.
or it leaks out of russian agent tulsi gabbard.
It's the same diaper
The USA are our allies, and China is our enemy. Did I understand correctly?
That depends on your personal current Reality^TM^. In this week's Trumpian Reality China seems to be an ally, and the EU a hostile power occupying four friendlies. This might change next Monday, of course.
mercans repeating father Putins wishes.
Putin with be happier if countries left NATO, not the EU though.
Putin would love nothing more than a broken un-united Europe, easy to pick them off one by one
If Poland left the EU, the Russians would march in and take the Sulwalki Gap at a minimum. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania would disappear too.
Japan and China...nope, they would back stab each other.
Poland's leadership might welcome the Russians in.
Nope, the Russians would end up in a hornet's nest.
Maybe, but I clearly remember them throwing a Parade for Donald Trump last term.
Some of the most anti-EU countrys leaving the EU? Luckily I do not see big long term negativ consequences here.
Trump is having trouble with Mearsheimer's blob.
Make Europe Fascist Again
Even if those 4 country would leave the union still would stand strong lmao
Might be stronger if a certain country left..
Defenetly. I would morn for the people of that country especially for a person that i knew personally
Don't fool yourself. The EU would be severely affected if all those countries leave. With those countries ~115 million people (aka customers) would leave too. That most certainly would have negative effects for all of us.
It would be yes but wouldnt be dead
Maybe a sort of psuedo-Brexit approach would be best when it comes to Hungary? Specifically...
1: Hungary effectively leaves the EU in nearly all ways.
2: Hungarians still have free movement, so people can leave Hungary and seek a better life in the EU.
This allows the more libre people and youth of Hungary to leave, while the conservative elements instinctively shelter in place. Plus, Hungarians who go back, will relate their outsider lives to Hungarians who stayed. In effect, the disparity in lifestyle and wealth will become increasingly obvious with every Christmas gathering. Given time, the remaining Hungarians will ask themselves "Why don't we live good lives?" and start looking at Orban with contempt for mismanaging their nation.
Toss in a provision to allow the EU to vote on whether to let Hungary resume being a full member every ten years, and maybe an optional special vote after a regime change. This gives a lot of flexibility to the EU.
Whether this kind of approach can work...🤷♂️
World's complicated and annoyingly random.
That'd still weaken the EU, I prefer for the EU to tackle hybrid warfare and start a countercampaign, and combatting Russo-Americo-nazi desinformation.
Oh yeah, our ideas are super persuasive these days.
It's insane that these people are elected representatives of so many people.
Make Europe less of a comparative power to
RussiaThe US againGreece, Cyprus, Malta, Hungary
It would strengthen the EU if Hungary were to leave
Problem is, isn't part of the point to raise up even the bad ones?
It doesn't work, the bad ones are crabs in a bucket. Hungary intentionally prevents progress to cripple the EU while still working for Russia.
That's not what the article says.
Yup:
Yeah I noticed after. These are the ones most likely (except Hungary) due to maritime sector being included in EU ETS and the FuelEU Maritime regulation. They will be hit hard.