Gun nuts of the fediverse. Do any guns use two magazines at once?
I hope folks read more than just the title. So im watching a show with a gun exchange and the person has to reload and you can see they are nervous to get the new magazine in so they can fire again and it made me think. Do any guns have two magazine where you can either manually switch to the other magazine or maybe automatically do it when the first one is empty. With the idea that if you need to fire while in the middle of changing out the empty magazine you could. I feel like this seem obvious enough that someone must have tried it. I mean considering the crazy gun things I have seen. Since im not aware of anything I figure if it has been done it had an issue or was just not useful enough to make worth it. So for the folks that are really into guns, especially wierd protoype ones. Has there every been anything like this?
Yes, the Kel-Tec KSG bullpup shotgun has two magazines and a manual control to choose between them. In addition to twice the capacity of a single tube magazine of the same length, it offers the user the option to switch between two types of ammunition - a more significant advantage for a shotgun than most firearms due to the variety of ammunition available.
Sounds ideal for home defense!
Unfortunately they're pretty failure prone; they've got some small plastic parts that tend to break. Being pump guns, they're also at risk of short-stroking, where you don't fully complete a cycle, and jam your shotgun.
It's a great idea, KelTec just needs to iron out the bugs.
It's a great idea, KelTec just needs to iron out the bugs.
Congratulations! You just described the entire premise of Kel-Tec firearms corp.
Real Kel-Tec fans only buy gen 3 or higher. XD They've usually got all the bugs worked out by then, while the remaining inherent flaws are part of their charm.
A failure prone KelTec?! I for one am shocked, shocked!
Also the https://stdgun.com/dp-12-2/ DP 12 from Standard Manufacturing. It alternates both shells from each magazine and is even more unreliable than a Kel-tec KSG
There's also the Gilboa DBR AR15.
Very nice. Unfortunately completely illegal in NY. Thanks for the info, though.
Where does the additional ammo get stored? I only see one tube. Interesting, however it works.
Where does the additional ammo get stored? I only see one tube. Interesting, however it works.
There are at least a few. There's the little villar perosa submachine gun from ww1 that everyone remembers from Battlefield 1, although that's basically two guns in one body. As far as something modern that truly is just one gun with two magazines, the Keltec KSG shotgun uses two tubes side by side that can be toggled between with a switch. Not only does it double the gun's capacity without adding any extra length, but it also allows you to load each tube with a different kind of shot and switch between the two at will. Adds a good amount of weight though.
There was another one in Battlefield 1 - an experimental machine gun with two magazines, but only one could be engaged at a time. You would pull one out slightly and push the other one in. The idea was to be able to switch between two different types of ammo for increased versatility (e. g. regular ammo against infantry and incendiary for anti-air). As with most weapons featured in Battlefield 1, I think this was a prototype that never saw any real action.
...But what happens when your second magazine runs out? What then?
Let's say that I have a gun that normally has a seven round magazine. I add a second magazine. Now I've got 14 rounds! ...But why not just make a 14 round magazine? And now when I run out, I have to change two magazines. (FWIW, normal capacity for a semi-auto 9mm is 13-18 rounds, and 15 is about average. 7 is the OEM capacity of all traditional .45ACP 1911 pistols.)
IMO adding a secondary magazine, rather than increasing the capacity of an existing magazine, adds needless complexity. Added complexity increases the odds of failure. I hate to say that this is a skill issue, but, well, changing a magazine quickly is a skill that you should practice if you want to be proficient in practical shooting. (By "practical shooting", I mean things like IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, PCSL, three gun, steel challenge, self-defense, and war. You shouldn't need to worry about rapid magazine changes for hunting or long range competitions.)
The one argument for a multi-magazine setup would be ammo versatility. E.g. One magazine holds FMJ or the like for soft targets while the second holds armor piercing for hard targets or explosive/incendiary for anti-material. It's not a great argument for it, and it's probably why we don't see it all that often. But, the good idea fairy is a regular visitor to the arms manufacturing industry.
What if one jams
"Tap rack bang" (below copied from wikipedia, and I'm just as surprised as you are that they have an article on this.)
And of course
A second mag wouldn't fix any of that, either, so adding one wouldn't be a solution.
Finally if the problem is the mag (feed lips or worn spring), a tactical reload (removing the mag, retaining it, and swapping to a full one) would be the move if you can, or just lose the mag and insert a new one if you can't.
The real solution to OP's question though is "train reloads," before you get into a gun fight. In a situation with high stress you want to have practiced it enough that it becomes muscle memory and you can do it without really thinking about it. You can train it in your bedroom without ammo no less, no excuse not to train reloads. If you're really bad you can add an aftermarket magwell to many guns that make it easier to reload (at the cost of concealability).
Stovepipes are pretty common if you limp-wrist your pistol. Similarly, some pistols don't go back into battery if you don't keep a rock-solid grip on the gun (I know for certain that this is an issue with the Walther PDP-F). Hang fires are something I wouldn't worry about in a gun fight; if it doesn't go bang, immediately cycle the slide and drop the round. Squibs on the other hand... If you get one of those, well, you aren't shooting with that gun any more, not until you can clear it. If it goes pop instead of BANG, then you definitely should not try a second time.
Honestly, if you, as a non-cop/non-military person are in a gunfight, the odds that you will need to reload are incredibly low. The biggest reason to carry a spare magazine along with your carry gun is so that you can drop your mag and swap out if you have some kind of failure. But even that is highly unlikely, assuming that you have bought a reputable firearm in the first place (e.g., not KelTec, Taurus, or a Sig P320), and have kept it maintained. Keep in mind that gun fights outside of police standoffs and military engagements are almost always very, very fast; like, less than five seconds most of the time.
Oof on that Walther lol, go Glock or CZ! But yeah a new mag ain't the fix for any of those.
Avg civilian encounter is 3s no reloads, but yeah it never hurts to be prepared!
It's not my Walther; it's my partner's, and they got the F version specifically because the reduced spring power on the slide makes cycling it easier. But the reduced spring power also makes it less likely to go fully into battery without a very firm grip. In general, the Walther PDPs are very nice guns, but the F versions have to make some trade-offs to work for smaller/weaker hands.
Me, I've got a CZ Shadow II Compact (I would have gotten the Carry, but that came out a month or two after I got the Compact). Love it. I went from using an inexpensive steel boat-anchor of a double-stack .40S&W/10mm 1911 in matches to the CZ.
For anyone that reads this, with the time for a gunfight that ArcaneSlime notes, .8 seconds for a draw from concealment and a single shot on target in the A zone is 'competitive'. You should practice to get to that point. I'm not there, and I need to practice to get there myself.
...'Cuz carrying a gun isn't like a magic talisman. It doesn't make you safer to carry a gun unless you practice, and practice a lot. No one wants to get in a gun fight unless they're either psychotic, suicidally stupid, or both.
I'm not there yet either lmao, also working on it!
I've just personally never been able to get used to the newer Walther's grips. The ppk is fun for the neat factor at the range (also I'm a nerd) but as far as a carry pistol goes none of their "duty" lineup does it for me (or, I can't do it with them lol. Either way.) CZ all day for me, trustworthy, good grip, can shoot well.
But that's all just personal preference anyway, fully agree on the rest though! Second to last thing I want is a gunfight, the last thing would be what the fighting is intended to prevent lmao.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl4IBsqS2gY
(Not a real gun, but thought you'd appreciate)
Not exactly what you're looking for, but still fun.
Arsenal Firearms AF2011A1
Here's Scott shooting it
https://youtu.be/bJrLE-O42m0
This is the first thing I thought of too, would be neat to shoot once, super impractical.
*weird (sorry to be that person) and I'm pretty sure there is. I'm not that much of a gun nut, but I think I've heard of one or two (I can't remember the names)
Have a great day and be kind! :D