UN delegates hold mass walkout as Netanyahu insists Israel must ‘finish job’ in Gaza
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-un-speech-israel-gaza-b2834372.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.nz904
Comments134https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-un-speech-israel-gaza-b2834372.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.nz
Like... some sort of Final Solution, you say?
They told us they're clearing up the "vermin".
Some sort of option?
Hans?
Ja?
i know right!
just in time, phew
this is the peace plan, i know it in my soul, i was reading km this morning, oh it was so good, it just said hamas will make peace to me over and over and over again
yay
It would be great if they would all walk out on Trump too.
Half of them probably fell asleep about 20 minutes into his insane rant
Twenty minutes is about how long a normal person can be reasonably expected maintain attention, even if the content is interesting. That's why TED talks are 20 minutes long.
On the other hand, Trump's rants are mind numbing. You're either seriously trained at listening, or you have something wrong with your brain, if you can listen to him for more than 2 minutes without zoning out.
I can’t even listen to him for 10 seconds without becoming irrationally angry.
It's not irrational when you have valid reasons. The man is infuriating with his ego, lies, projection, and bigotry.
Thank you, it feels nice to be seen sometimes.
and hyperbole usage similar to a 5 year old.
I tried zoning out, but it doesn't work for me. I hate him so much, I have to stop whatever is playing his bullshit.
Yeah a lot of trumps shtick was pretty incendiary.
It would be great if they all just recognized Palestine as a country and cut all trade with Israel immediately until they stopped. Instead of a symbolic walk out, actually walk out of their lives... And you can verify if they cut their shit out
Why until they stopped?
Because there need to be reasons to participate in society properly. If it’s “we’re cutting you off from all trade and never restarting it,” there’s no incentive for them to change their behavior. Sanctions always give a reason.
Punishment isn’t a good motivator of human behavior, reinforcement is.
For the starving people of Gaza, who have lived their entire lives in what amounts to the world's largest concentration camp, the time for "changed behaviour" from Israel is long passed, if it was ever there to begin with.
Well clearly their form of fighting against Israel is going well for them.
I don't think infants are the ones deciding the method of resistance lol
Great, we can keep being perpetually blood feuding with eachother for all eternity, great solution, once we've exiled and eradicated all hateful people the remainder will live in peace and prosperity forever.
(It's not like that thinking isn't basically how we got here or anything)
This is not Fanon's point, nor is it mine. The Wretched of The Earth Is a seminal text on colonialism for good reason. In it, Fanon is grappling with what it means for the colonized to violently resist.
The settler state is already violent. We just don't usually conceive of state violence as such. Fanon is correct in the same way that the way to deal with a schoolyard bully is to stand up and confront him. Not appeal to his better angels.
This misunderstands the situation. This isn't some ancient conflict where both sides are equivalent. The Israeli state is the aggressor here, and that aggression has a clear beginning, with at least the Nakbah.
The land itself is the thing being fought over. Not some nebulous blood feud. The land, the capacity to live on it, work on it, cultivate it, to have history on that land. These are things being denied to the native Palestinians by the Israeli state.
The solution here is the right of return for all displaced Palestinians, restoration of their civil liberties, language rights, etc. So they might be able govern themselves, as they see fit.
For a colonized people the most essential value, because it is the most concrete, is first and foremost the land: the land which will bring them bread and, above all, dignity -The Wretched of The Earth
What we are asking for is not violence, what we are asking for is a free Palestine for all its citizens, regardless of religion. We want the religious ethno-supremacist state built on our stolen land to become free.
We aren't asking for blood, and we aren't asking to exile or eradicate anyone.
You're blaming two years of genocide on a single act of violent resistance. How we got here is 500 of our villages destroyed, many massacres against our people, 700 thousand of us expelled from our ancestral homelands, and 77 years of oppression and shooting our kids while calling us animals and snakes.
History will reflect October 7 as the Gaza ghetto uprising that it was, violent resistance to 75 years of dehumanizing us and colonizing our land, and 16 years of military siege on our people in Gaza.
Imagine telling Jews in WW2 they should have died peacefully because resisting violently is how we got here.
Israel should not be coming back, it needs to be replaced by a country representing the indigenous land owners and not European colonisers.
Jews believe they are the indigenous land owners. That's what this whole thing is about.
Yes and POTUS believes that Tylenol causes Autism. Just because leaders believe something doesn't make it true.
So you don't believe Jews used to inhabit Israel, despite the evidence? They do have a valid reason for making a claim to the land, which is entirely different from your example
When your ancestors lives in another continent for centuries you lose your connection and can't have any claim or force a state on the local population . The ancestry argument is very stupid
No I believe that they were originally from that spot between Egypt and Israel until they moved to Egypt and then to Israel after they committed genocide and killing the people that lived there before them. Then they got booted out of Israel and lived other places. They have less claim to the land than the people that were there in the 1800s. Have you not read the Bible?
Jewish people have more current claim to Brooklyn than they do to the land that corresponds to ancient Israel and Judea.
What happens to the people living in Israel currently?
Some Israelis are living in the land of their grandfathers but most of them have countries of origin they can be returned to. If that would be bad for them, there's always countries they can emigrate to. But most solutions that aren't zionist or "two state" are along the lines of "abolish the ethnostate and replace it with a real democracy" in which case the people currently living in Israel (minus those guilty of crimes against humanity) largely go about their lives as they did before.
Reminds me of how they're sending people packing in the US. At what point are you allowed to stay on the land
Sounds like you want revenge colonialism.
It's nice to see that you and Israel can agree on the desirability of a forever war and ethnic cleansing...
We want a one state solution because thanks to Israel fault of building illegal settlements a two state solution is no longer possible . Nobody advocate for kicking out all Israeli from the land
A two state solution is still possible. Israel kicked all the settlers out of Gaza once, and it can be done with other settlements too. It's only infeasible because no country that matters is willing to stand up to Netanyahu in a way that matters. But without doing that, there's also no way to enact whatever counter-genocide it is you're advocating.
There was only 9000 settlers in Gaza. Here we are talking about 700k . Israel will probably do the same with Arabs and will be transferred to the new state which will be in a such economical weakness .
I said i advocate for a white state solution with equal rights so nobody is going to be genocide or ethnically cleansing stop being disingenuous
A colonial project is not a human. Neither is a country btw, but that's not what we are talking about here anyway.
israel and the united states would leave the UN if they did this
That would be for the best since the US has veto rights over everything, basically.
or it might mean that the UN would no longer serve a purpose because it wouldn't have any influence over the belligerents
lol no way in hell they're gonna give up their permanent Security council seat, that would be the best thing they could ever do for the UN
you give the president of the us too much benefit of the doubt
Apparently, Israel hacked phones in Gaza to blast out Netanyahu's speech as he was giving it. If that had happened in the Superman movie, the audience would have said that's a bit too comic book villainous.
That's some straight up Joker shenanigans.
Id say that's more red skull or scarecrow personally, Joker generally only cares about it for folks who are in on the joke IE have context.
Umm first Batman movie where the Joker took control of all the tv stations for his "makeup product"?
I forgo
He's a war criminal. He's lucky that's all they did
"Just let me finish up this genocide really quick, please guys..."
Imagine a world where the US respected the International Criminal Court and this man was arrested the minute he set foot on American soil.
Ok, so hear me out. The ICC is a UN body. The UN headquarters is international soil. Why couldn't the UN security services arrest him and send him to stand trial at the ICC?
Because of this the American Service Members Protection Act
Trump would then go gaga against the ICC.
Why is a criminal according to the UN with a arrest warrant by the UN allowed to speak at the UN?
How would they get him out of the building?
Really wish the UN had some kind of method to stop counties from clearly and openly committing genocide
It's called war, but it's not very popular, especially when waged with no economic incentives. Just look at how many Europeans complain about sending help to Ukraine, not even troops.
Cool but have those countries ended trade with Israel? Declared sanctions? Sent military aid to the PLO? Establish a no-fly zone? I'm glad this happened, its a start, but it's not enough and Gaza is running out of time.
Not arrest. Not put on trial. Not disarm.
Walkout…
US has veto power. There is no possible way for the UN to do anything.
The UN is flawed by design.
Russia has veto it vote against any resolution about Ukraine. European countries still provide billions in aid and arms to Ukraine to defend itself . The genocide convention is a bigger authority document than UN resolutions
Yes it is flawed, but it was basically "give the 5 largest powers veto power, or they don't participate". If they don't participate, it would be even more ornamental than it currently is.
Ideally they would have more power to stop shit like this, but the UN as it stands is better than nothing. They do bring countries together to talk things through that otherwise might not have and have successfully de-escilated issues in the past.
I'm not saying people shouldn't expect, or push for, better, and I'm not saying this is your view point, but I do see the sentiment that they're useless/do nothing quite often.
Walking out won't ultimately achieve much... But it's at least better than sitting their and letting him feel validated in his psychopathic plans.
Yeah, but at the time the US could have fought every nation on the planet to a standtill and the USSR could have fought every nation on the planet but the US to a standstill, so there was no way to not make them permanent members of the security council with veto power since they could just ignore other countries if they wanted.
The permanent UNSC members with veto power was a huge mistake. But possibly it was nessecary or these members wouldn't have joined at all and the UN would have been stillborn. The US now has cast more vetoes than the rest of the UNSC permanent members combined
I am not asking for a legal framework to enforce acts of anti-genocide.
Doesn't matter what you're asking for. Anything can be vetoed.
Says a bunch war criminals rotting in jail.
Its been flawed for a pretty long time at this point. The fact that Russia has remained a member for all these years is proof enough of that.
I'm so sick of all of the performative grandstanding. Grab this fucker and throw him in a deep hole. Nice walkout guys, you really showed him.
Weird times when Ireland's PM is the voice of reason at the UN
One of many voices of reason. Many nom Western countries are on the right side of history on this one.
When have they not been?
This guy is from a centre right party. Not exactly my first ranked choice (or any for that matter).
So? Both of Irelands leading political parties since the foundation of the state are centre right. There has never been a non-centre right party in power.
By contrast the wanted war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu received over FIFTY standing ovations when he addressed the US Congress last year.
Tony Blair to rule Gaza for five years. What the fuck is that weird ass fan fiction of reality!? XD
“The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born; now is the time of monsters.”
— Antonio Gramsci
Finish its final solution. He should have been rotting in prison a long time ago
He's gonna do it and my tax dollars are gonna pay for it.
The final solution to the Palestinian question?
Oh wow, some people walked out in an ineffectual symbolic gesture.
What performative wankery. A bunch of them are just sitting down clapping. Did he still speak? Was he arrested?
i'm going to say something that i'm sure people are going to hate and i may be banned for saying it. buts its just an opinion based on decades and decades of history...
If Israel doesn't finish this now, it is just going to happen again. Its painful to watch, but its the truth. Netanyahu is an ass, but he's right. A two state solution is a fantasy pipe dream that will never ever work.
Ah, yes, because there's only two options: a two state solution or the complete extermination of the entire Palestinian population. Is it really so difficult to imagine one state with equal rights for all? It's not going to be easy getting there after all that's taken place, but it is the only path to justice.
Its not that difficult. In fact that state already exists.
Implying Israel has equal right for Palestinians, anywhere in its territory, is so comically out of touch we can only interpret it as bait.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset
This is great proof of your inability to count lol
proof of your inability to read.
palestine is part of israel. if israel were a democracy, palestine wouldn't be the prison that it is
israel is more of a democracy at this point than the united states.
there is nothing like gaza in the united states
It was arbitrarily drawn on a map by people from a country half a globe away, fuck off with that manifest destiny bullshit
where did i mention manifest destiny?
By that logic, Hitler/Nazis should have finished the job too so there would be world peace. If millenia of history and the present is anything to go by, nations keep going to war with each other, so coexistence will never work in the long term.
Were the jews violently attacking the germans prior to the holocaust?
You can't act like Israel was just peacefully minding its own business when Hamas attacked. Israel was founded by ethnic cleansing and had been slowly trying to finish the job for decades by forcing Palestinians into smaller and smaller areas, taking control of their utilities and resources, and depriving them of their rights. Oct. 7th gave Israel an excuse to escalate what they had already been doing.
I love how you guys try to push this dishonest argument that everything started in 1948. It did not. Things happened before that. There was violence on both sides, with full blown pogroms breaking out in 1920, 1921, and 1929. Arabs were offered a much bigger chunk of the region, they refused it because they wanted all of the land which would have meant the eradication of the jews in the region, much as has occurred elsewhere throughout the middle east. The Jews fought back with Israel and people like you just don't seem to like it.
I'm so tired of getting in this repeated argument about this very same thing with people like you who just refuse to acknowledge history before 1948. The history matters, no matter how much you want to try to ignore it.
Jews and arabs have always lived in the region. The notion that an ethnostate is necessary because it's the only way for them to be safe is a propaganda myth and also inherently illogical.
what the hell are you talking about? look at the jewish populations in nearly every single country in the middle east compared to what they were at the beginning of the 20th century.
I will block anyone who tries to be this disingenuous with their statements. You aren't worth my time.
"Jews and Muslims can't coexist and it's all the Muslims' fault, that's why we have to force Muslims off their land and establish a Jewish ethnostate. We have a right to it anyway because god gave it to us or whatever. How dare they fight back!"
This is your argument, and we are the ones being disingenuous?
The comparison I'm making is to Nazi Germany's war for global domination. So yes, there was Jewish armed resistance in occupied Europe. Now, I don't condone Hamas's massacre of civilians and hostage taking. I do believe Palestinians have a right to armed resistance in the face of Israel's control over Palestinian sovereignty and the continued extreme injustices they've been inflicting on Palestinians collectively.
I was pointing to a distinction in the logic of "rightness". If you ignore morality, then yes, eradicating a population will effectively stop groups within it from continuing to attack you in the future. However, with morality, genocide is wrong. It's the same reason why wiping Israel off the map would finish things and end the IDF's war crimes. However, it would still be morally wrong.
This is a very poor comparison. I think you already know that though.
Well, my friend, I'm glad you're not disputing the point, despite the poor comparison. I wish you peace and love :)
which is more than they hope for children in palestine
A two state solution will not work, correct. That is why the world must come together and kick the genocidal Israelis out of the Palestinians land.
But that would cause the dame problem but in reverse. What do you do with all the Israelis who were born and raised there?
I am not defending Isreal. It's just the reality of the situation. I hate what Isreal is doing. But it feels like people forget that hamas is just as horrible.
I don't know why people like you can't seem to comprehend the idea that the Israelis have been living in the region for thousands of years. Yes a lot of Israelis returned to Israel in 20th century, but it is their ancestral homeland (Jews were expelled from the region -- you are aware that they were subject to forced expulsion, aren't you?), and the fact of the matter is european migration to the area goes back to the 1500s. Those migrants didn't steal their land and they didn't just come uninvited.
And both sides have acted in a genocidal manner toward the other at this point. Many people would argue that Israel has even restrained itself. If you want to sit there and act as if Gazans wouldn't kill every single jew in Israel given the opportunity you can go ahead and delude yourself, but they have already stated that they would and the rest of the middle east serves as extremely good evidence of the violently homogenized culture of the region.
You cannot just pick and choose the parts of history which serve your purpose.
My ancestral homeland is your house. I have paperwork to prove it. Please make the unit ready for resettlement ASAP or I'll be forced to starve children. I know it's a tough job but someone has to do it because that's what my 20 minutes of skimming Wikipedia taught me.
I know we don't like reddit here, but this post contains just a smidgin of my potential rebuttal.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/azhzx1/around_the_turn_of_the_16th_century_thousands_of/
Don't be dense. There are no historical land ties that can justify this genocide.
im not using these land ties to justify genocide, only to show that your point, while i know its sarcastic, doesn't really hold much weight. Jews were literally invited to the region by the ottomans.
Israelis and Palastinians are both descendants of the Canaanites that lived in the area back during the Bronze Age. None of that matters.
Israel has militarily attacked 6 different countries in the last few weeks. So what exactly is the scope of what they supposed to finish?
Fascists do not stop at any point because they cannot. Their power is predicated on eternal war. Not even achieving their insane plan for a "greater Israel" would be enough. The radicalisation based on fear and supremacy does not end when an arbitrary goal is achieved. They absolutely must be stopped.
I don't agree with you on your point about finishing the job.
How is Israel fascist?