My experience in middle and high school (yes in America) we had a lot of Orwell and Vonegett as assigned readings built into the curriculum, and the books were sufficiently worn and yellowed, the projector transparencies sufficiently photocopier burned and the tapes sufficiently scratchy and worn to indicate these books had been part of the curriculum for at least a decade or more before I went through it.
They are the most banned happy I have heard of. They know how susceptible the audience is to manipulation so they won't abide any counter manipulation.
Unfortunately it looks like the commies on Reddit are a bit smarter than your average conservative.
I think this post needs to go on truth social or some Chan type thing.
I just realised I don't know where I would find a den of white supremacists... And I guess thats a good thing. I want to say the words telegram but I'm not sure? Huh. Til
Of course. I'm just trying to shut down this notion that it's "not inaccurate" to call him a communist because of the Intel thing. By all means, do a little trolling, but don't drink your own kool-aid.
After the programme was agreed, however, a clash arose between Marx and his French supporters arose over the purpose of the minimum section. Whereas Marx saw this as a practical means of agitation around demands that were achievable within the framework of capitalism, Guesde took a very different view: “Discounting the possibility of obtaining these reforms from the bourgeoisie, Guesde regarded them not as a practical programme of struggle, but simply ... as bait with which to lure the workers from Radicalism.” The rejection of these reforms would, Guesde believed, “free the proletariat of its last reformist illusions and convince it of the impossibility of avoiding a workers ’89.” Accusing Guesde and Lafargue of “revolutionary phrase-mongering” and of denying the value of reformist struggles, Marx made his famous remark that, if their politics represented Marxism, “ce qu'il y a de certain c'est que moi, je ne suis pas Marxiste” (“what is certain is that I myself am not a Marxist”).
Kind of crazy how so much is still to do really, like the last point
Abolition of all indirect taxes and transformation of all direct taxes into a progressive tax on incomes over 3,000 francs. Suppression of all inheritance on a collateral line [8] and of all direct inheritance over 20,000 francs.
They accuse you of their bogeyman trigger words whether or not you advertise it or are even actually doing the bogeyman thing in the first place. I fail to see how this would address that. The words need to be rehabilitated, not avoided, so they lose the knee jerk reaction that the right wing counts on.
I think being somewhat transparent is the point. You want them agreeing untilnthey get to the end and say "oh", and feel angry/annoyed by the satire, but deep down you're sowing doubts that maybe this does all make sense and that you should investigate it more and get educated.
No right winger would think that. They like their hierarchies, their classes of people, and some being worth more than others so there is someone to punch down.
Just so long as they are at least one level up. It is why they like to demonize non whites because it's easy and let's the rubes be content to sit at the bottom.
I call it bait entirely because of its audience: it's posted to r/Conservatives.
Satire should be perceivable by its intended audience, such that the audience will interact and enjoy it on that meta-level. The expected audience of that subreddit isn't looking for coded messages to unionize. Unless this post was made entirely for the enjoyment of progressive lurkers, which is not as reasonable to assume.
Except the audience wasn't the conservatives there. It was us. It was people outside looking in. It was posted there so it could be shown elsewhere. Pretty clearly.
When I start my start-up, at some point fucking everyone will get paid the same in proportion to overall company performance. From the cleaning staff to the highest level management fuckers. Because each and everyone is responsible for and contributes to the company's success.
Or to be extra based, distribute accoring to people's socially-necessary labour-time. E.g. pay the 8hr-day person 20% more than the 6hr-day one. Assuming people's productivity is average, which is most often the case.
I can see a counter-argument that it would create an incencitive to spend more time where it could be cut down and, also, wiring worker's paychecks to a sometimes arbitrary and flowing value. Like, you don't need to clean the outdoors property every day, it depends on the weather, and there I can see paying a stable wage reserving person's time and paying for it in case I need to call them even if it's sunny and they don't actually need to go. As long as they do their job well, who cares. They or a company can reinvest in better tools making their actual worktime even shorter or more comfortable, like, jumping from a manual gardening tools to an automated lawnmower, while not punishing them for working less. Some kinds of labor doesn't even necessitate being on site, as it was shown by covid, and we see a lot of ideas to cut down on wages due to LLM assistance.
I'm also puzzled about how uneven my work from day to day, and I'd probably prefer to give up on measuring and comparing that at all, defaulting to some lively wage and pulling enough of myself to keep the business afloat. If the idea of a guy over us is in having similar stakes in the business and collectively voting for changes, I see it's possible to set a fair compensation and keep people interested in the end results.
I am also thinking about this in terms of reserving people's time. If people decide to take longer to do stuff there's little you can do to counter that without going down the arduous path of performance metrics, monitoring and evaluations. People can tweak their productivity over 955 regular working schedules where tasks just take longer and project comoletion times stretch further. They just take more free time within the regular schedule. So I suggest time-proportional pay only under the condition where we decide to let some people reserve more of their time to this activity of doing work. But perhaps we don't want that as there are other side effects too.
E.g. pay the 8hr-day person 20% more than the 6hr-day one.
The problem with that is you're going to have a hard time actually telling whether the 8hr-day people is actually really doing more than the 6hr-day people.
You just don't do that. You assume everyone is doing avg productivity for their job. Otherwise you enter the fools errand of performance measurements and evaluation. Assume avg productivity, pay the person who wants to spend 5 days a week proportionally more than the person spending 4 days a week. Or 8hrs vs 6hrs, and so on. Only if you want to allow for some poeple to work more than others. Maybe you don't. Maybe we shouldn't.
You assume everyone is doing avg productivity for their job.
On average, people only manage about 4hrs of productivity on any given day - no matter whether you are paying them for 6hrs or 8hrs.
You're essentially creating conditions for people who just sit around and pretend to work - while the people who cannot spend 8hrs per day at the workplace (like working mothers, for instance) start getting miffed because they can't access the extra "sitting-around-and-doing-nothing" money.
Otherwise you enter the fools errand of performance measurements and evaluation
You're going to have to measure and evaluate something. In my experience, corporations loves measuring all the wrong things. They can usually barely even define what "performance" means, never mind measure it correctly.
It's not evaluation that's the problem... it's the people deciding what should be evaluated that's almost always the problem.
You're going to have to measure and evaluate something. In my experience, corporations loves measuring all the wrong things. They can usually barely even define what "performance" means, never mind measure it correctly.
I'm wondering if there is even the right way to do that in most trades, and moreso a uniformal way to do it across several activities. Maybe the whole conversation is misleading and inescapably drive you off the path, because the problem itself is erroneously set. Like this blurry line when you start to care about genetics that much it start to smell like eugenics. Measuring people's worth in money does leave this bitter taste, and under capitalism you are supposed to do so to get by, if not as a boss, but as a worker estimating own value convertable into quality of life. It wasn't always the case, and probably, the bright future is when we will abandon this concept and would freely replicate food from reusable and abundant energy traversing space and searching for it's many wonders.
The reason anything is so difficult to measure under the capitalist mode of production is simple... corporate subterfuge.
Here's a corporate talking head caught in a moment of (highly) abberrant honesty -
"We are not technically in the food business. We are in the real estate business. The only reason we sell fifteen-cent hamburgers is because they are the greatest producer of revenue, from which our tenants can pay us our rent.” - former McDonald’s CFO, Harry J. Sonneborn
What this means is that the employees (in the case of McDonalds) can devise a million and one methods to measure say, the quality of the food or the experience customers have... none of it will really matter because the capitalists at the top doesn't actually care - the actual measurements they care about is rarely communicated down the line with such honesty for very obvious reasons... they want their employees and customers to believe that McDonalds actually gives a damn about the stuff they sell people. The truth of the matter is, they don't.
Measuring and evaluating things isn't rocket science - it's something people have been doing for centuries. But measurement and evaluation is only possible if the people in power wants something to be honestly measured and evaluated.
Isn't this just capitalism? The value of my labor is independent from how well your company performs. I don't give a fuck about competitors, supply chain issues and other bullshit, I should be compensated for my time, effort, and knowledge alone.
Problem is that you are usually not getting much of the company's profit share since the ones higher up the hierarchy put most of the profits into their own pockets while virtually exploiting the labor of others. So you could actually benefit from a "everyone get's the same amount" policy.
I think 🤔 my boss 👨💼 might be a communist 🔴 😫 . So a while 😦 ago, I got my first 👆paycheck 💰 at my new job 👨🍳 at a fast 💨 food 🥘 place. I guess 🤨 it wasn’t too bad, but I did the math 🔢➕🔢 and figured out that I sold 💴 a lot more food 🍔🌭 per hour ⏰ than I got paid 💵 for, even when you account 🔡➖🔢 for the price 💰 of the food 🥩. When I tried 😊 to talk 🗣 to him about it, he said 👤 we’re all part 👥 of one 🖕big team, but 🛑 some people 💁♂️ get paid 💰 more than 💴 others. This is suspiciously 🧐 close 🤨 to the famous “some are more ➕ equal ☑️ than others” from my favorite book, Animal 🐷 Farm 🏡 and is what really 💥 got me thinking 💭 about this. We 👷♀️👷👷♂️ make the money 💰, and then he takes 😡 it and gives 💵 it to someone else 😃 who doesn’t even work 😐. I’m no 🚫 economist ↗️↘️,but this is textbook 📚 socialism 🔴 🤮. I think 🤔 I’ve come 💦 to the conclusion 🛑 that the best ✅ way for me to combat 🔪 these socialist 🤢 business 💴 practices would be 🚸 teaming up 💖 with my fellow workers 🙋 unify out ✊ power 💥 and demonstrate 👨🏫🧑🏫that we understand 🧠 the full 💯 value 🔣 of our labor. Anyone 🧐 else have similar ⬅️➡️ experiences with obviously 🙄 Marxist ❌ 🤦♀️ bosses 👨💼 before, or any other 🔠 advice?
This has to be a troll.
95% sure is trolling. Yet, I'm also 100% sure a lot of those buffoons will not notice.
Not many smart people left on the sub. Just yes-men.
They've done so many purges in /r/conservative that it's basically communism
I really don't think there were many smart conservative redditors to begin with.
Concerned-antocommie is such a troll alt username
It was:
Followed by a logical conclusion that sold this as trolling to me
My thoughts as well, surely there's no way.
But... America.
It's true, but I feel like the dumb ones wouldn't have bothered to read Animal Farm.
Maybe Atlas Shrugged
It's a pretty common assigned reading in schools these days
In American schools? Neither myself or anyone I know has ever been asked to read anything from Orwell.
My experience in middle and high school (yes in America) we had a lot of Orwell and Vonegett as assigned readings built into the curriculum, and the books were sufficiently worn and yellowed, the projector transparencies sufficiently photocopier burned and the tapes sufficiently scratchy and worn to indicate these books had been part of the curriculum for at least a decade or more before I went through it.
It was going great until "I've come to the conclusion..." Gave the whole game away.
Most likely, since he uses communism, socialism, and Marxism interchangeably
Post up for 2 minutes, no votes shown. Definitely a troll post and probably screencapped by whoever made it before it was removed.
Pro level shitpost.
The post is satire/trolling.
I was interested, so I found the original post, and the mods there removed all the comments, so you can't see the people falling for it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/iig9uh/is_my_boss_a_communist/
Boy, conservatives sure love their free speech.
They really do. Some speech is more free than others.
This is suspiciously close to the famous "some are more equal than others" from my favorite book, .
I got banned from there years ago for asking a question in a comment.
They are the most banned happy I have heard of. They know how susceptible the audience is to manipulation so they won't abide any counter manipulation.
well that's your first mistake. Only communists question stuff.
As we speak people are losing their jobs because they said some shit about Kirk boy.
Hell, I've seen people losing jobs and shit purely from posting direct quotes from Charlie Kirk, nothing more
People who respond in an extrajudicial manner to being fired like that are well within their rights.
https://www.reveddit.com/v/Conservative/comments/iig9uh/is_my_boss_a_communist/
Comes up empty for me
So weird. When I click on the link, it also comes up empty. But if I replace
redditwithrevedditin the original url, it works.Here's a screen grab.
pro tip: change any reddit url to reveddit to view deleted content https://www.reveddit.com/v/Conservative/comments/iig9uh/is_my_boss_a_communist/
Unfortunately it looks like the commies on Reddit are a bit smarter than your average conservative.
I think this post needs to go on truth social or some Chan type thing.
I just realised I don't know where I would find a den of white supremacists... And I guess thats a good thing. I want to say the words telegram but I'm not sure? Huh. Til
Does voat still exist? Or twitter
Once upon a time this worked, not for new Reddit threads, sadly.
Gonna start calling landlords "socialists", see what happens
Yeah the comments were also trolls https://www.reveddit.com/v/Conservative/comments/iig9uh/is_my_boss_a_communist/
https://www.reveddit.com/v/Conservative/comments/iig9uh/is_my_boss_a_communist/
We should troll them like this a LOT more.
Accusing people of being communist is just fun as well. It is not all that inaccurate with our political leaders either.
The president is taking stock in companies and taking payoffs from companies. Because he's a fucking communist.
It is absolutely inaccurate to call the capitalist fascist Trump a communist.
Duh. That's the whole point.
are you autistic?
Shit I'm autistic and even I got the social nuance of the post.
I think old mate might just be plain old fashioned Forest Gump level stupid.
at least they got their heart in the right place :')
Notice we're in a comment thread and I was not replying to the original post.
Can you read?
He would hate being called communist though.
Of course. I'm just trying to shut down this notion that it's "not inaccurate" to call him a communist because of the Intel thing. By all means, do a little trolling, but don't drink your own kool-aid.
No dude he's a fuckin commie
The problem is that their ability to ignore obvious contradictions is so immense they sometimes embrace it unironically.
"Russia will take the US without firing a single shot"
This guy/gal's got the right idea. Turns out conservatives agree with a lot of leftist ideas when you don't use their Boogeyman trigger words.
More into Groucho than Karl?
Then again, Groucho did say something like 'I would never want to join a club that would admit me as a member.', so perhaps not.
I mean, IIRC Karl claimed to not be a marxist. Guess it runs in the family.
Source
Kind of crazy how so much is still to do really, like the last point
I wonder how much that is in today's money
Sort of a selection bias.
"The only Marxists I ever see are the ones advertising themselves" implies you might not be looking very hard
Funny how you quoted them twice yet neither one is actually a quote
They accuse you of their bogeyman trigger words whether or not you advertise it or are even actually doing the bogeyman thing in the first place. I fail to see how this would address that. The words need to be rehabilitated, not avoided, so they lose the knee jerk reaction that the right wing counts on.
I'd be a Marxist if only I had the money they always seem to have laying around.
I did and I'm not even conservative, just autistic
I'm ADHD but not autistic and had me too until
would have been better to not use the word "unify". too transparent.
Even 'labor' is a bit of a giveaway, IMO. Still funny tho
Form an employee company
Like, cooperating at work?
I think being somewhat transparent is the point. You want them agreeing untilnthey get to the end and say "oh", and feel angry/annoyed by the satire, but deep down you're sowing doubts that maybe this does all make sense and that you should investigate it more and get educated.
This has to be a troll but I'll be damned if r/conservative isn't dumb enough to bite
No right winger would think that. They like their hierarchies, their classes of people, and some being worth more than others so there is someone to punch down.
Just so long as they are at least one level up. It is why they like to demonize non whites because it's easy and let's the rubes be content to sit at the bottom.
"You have to work your way up! If your stuck at the bottom, it is because you didnt pull your bootstraps hard enough!"
Back in 2016,my BIL told me, "I could be as rich as Trump, I just don't want to work that hard."
...Still lived with his parents at 40.
I could also be rich as trump if... my daddy was a wealthy slumlord.
Way too many comments from people taking this at face value. This is almost formulaic bait.
Between LLM brain rot and COVID, we lost a lot of collective brain power in the last few years
This post is 5 years old
It would be interesting to count how many people didn't understand the satire back then and compare to now
Satire not bait.
I call it bait entirely because of its audience: it's posted to r/Conservatives.
Satire should be perceivable by its intended audience, such that the audience will interact and enjoy it on that meta-level. The expected audience of that subreddit isn't looking for coded messages to unionize. Unless this post was made entirely for the enjoyment of progressive lurkers, which is not as reasonable to assume.
Except the audience wasn't the conservatives there. It was us. It was people outside looking in. It was posted there so it could be shown elsewhere. Pretty clearly.
Now now, it might be the first time on the internet for some of these commenters, who have somehow stumbled on Lemmy as the first place they visited.
May god have mercy with their souls
Missing nsfw tag for memetic agent with acute physiological aneurism vector.
Nevertheless, excellent shitpost.
Capitalist's workers should rally behind such a great example.
This is the way you troll right-wingers.
I would love to as those comments
Peak satire 👨🍳👌
This is really bad for conservative marxist bait ngl
Dude definitely never understood Animal Farm.And I missed the satire in this. OP knew what he was doing.
The difference between communism and capitalism is who gets the money without working.
This is clearly a rage bait post for conservatives lol
So you are incapable of seeing the obvious joke here and are blaming Americans for being too stupid to... Not fall for an obvious joke?
This is clearly a bait post in /r/conservative. The author knows exactly what they were doing, lol.
Also yes
Not in this specific instance at least
a surprising proportion at least
LOAO
When I start my start-up, at some point fucking everyone will get paid the same in proportion to overall company performance. From the cleaning staff to the highest level management fuckers. Because each and everyone is responsible for and contributes to the company's success.
This can work.
For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-51332811
Or to be extra based, distribute accoring to people's socially-necessary labour-time. E.g. pay the 8hr-day person 20% more than the 6hr-day one. Assuming people's productivity is average, which is most often the case.
I can see a counter-argument that it would create an incencitive to spend more time where it could be cut down and, also, wiring worker's paychecks to a sometimes arbitrary and flowing value. Like, you don't need to clean the outdoors property every day, it depends on the weather, and there I can see paying a stable wage reserving person's time and paying for it in case I need to call them even if it's sunny and they don't actually need to go. As long as they do their job well, who cares. They or a company can reinvest in better tools making their actual worktime even shorter or more comfortable, like, jumping from a manual gardening tools to an automated lawnmower, while not punishing them for working less. Some kinds of labor doesn't even necessitate being on site, as it was shown by covid, and we see a lot of ideas to cut down on wages due to LLM assistance.
I'm also puzzled about how uneven my work from day to day, and I'd probably prefer to give up on measuring and comparing that at all, defaulting to some lively wage and pulling enough of myself to keep the business afloat. If the idea of a guy over us is in having similar stakes in the business and collectively voting for changes, I see it's possible to set a fair compensation and keep people interested in the end results.
I am also thinking about this in terms of reserving people's time. If people decide to take longer to do stuff there's little you can do to counter that without going down the arduous path of performance metrics, monitoring and evaluations. People can tweak their productivity over 955 regular working schedules where tasks just take longer and project comoletion times stretch further. They just take more free time within the regular schedule. So I suggest time-proportional pay only under the condition where we decide to let some people reserve more of their time to this activity of doing work. But perhaps we don't want that as there are other side effects too.
The problem with that is you're going to have a hard time actually telling whether the 8hr-day people is actually really doing more than the 6hr-day people.
You just don't do that. You assume everyone is doing avg productivity for their job. Otherwise you enter the fools errand of performance measurements and evaluation. Assume avg productivity, pay the person who wants to spend 5 days a week proportionally more than the person spending 4 days a week. Or 8hrs vs 6hrs, and so on. Only if you want to allow for some poeple to work more than others. Maybe you don't. Maybe we shouldn't.
On average, people only manage about 4hrs of productivity on any given day - no matter whether you are paying them for 6hrs or 8hrs.
You're essentially creating conditions for people who just sit around and pretend to work - while the people who cannot spend 8hrs per day at the workplace (like working mothers, for instance) start getting miffed because they can't access the extra "sitting-around-and-doing-nothing" money.
You're going to have to measure and evaluate something. In my experience, corporations loves measuring all the wrong things. They can usually barely even define what "performance" means, never mind measure it correctly.
It's not evaluation that's the problem... it's the people deciding what should be evaluated that's almost always the problem.
I'm wondering if there is even the right way to do that in most trades, and moreso a uniformal way to do it across several activities. Maybe the whole conversation is misleading and inescapably drive you off the path, because the problem itself is erroneously set. Like this blurry line when you start to care about genetics that much it start to smell like eugenics. Measuring people's worth in money does leave this bitter taste, and under capitalism you are supposed to do so to get by, if not as a boss, but as a worker estimating own value convertable into quality of life. It wasn't always the case, and probably, the bright future is when we will abandon this concept and would freely replicate food from reusable and abundant energy traversing space and searching for it's many wonders.
The reason anything is so difficult to measure under the capitalist mode of production is simple... corporate subterfuge.
Here's a corporate talking head caught in a moment of (highly) abberrant honesty -
What this means is that the employees (in the case of McDonalds) can devise a million and one methods to measure say, the quality of the food or the experience customers have... none of it will really matter because the capitalists at the top doesn't actually care - the actual measurements they care about is rarely communicated down the line with such honesty for very obvious reasons... they want their employees and customers to believe that McDonalds actually gives a damn about the stuff they sell people. The truth of the matter is, they don't.
Measuring and evaluating things isn't rocket science - it's something people have been doing for centuries. But measurement and evaluation is only possible if the people in power wants something to be honestly measured and evaluated.
Isn't this just capitalism? The value of my labor is independent from how well your company performs. I don't give a fuck about competitors, supply chain issues and other bullshit, I should be compensated for my time, effort, and knowledge alone.
Problem is that you are usually not getting much of the company's profit share since the ones higher up the hierarchy put most of the profits into their own pockets while virtually exploiting the labor of others. So you could actually benefit from a "everyone get's the same amount" policy.
That sounds fine - the problem is just... why leave that up to the bosses?
Yupp. I am also thinking about making the company owned by the employees in the long run. Something like a cooperative.
it kinda shows that labels have become a tool to obscure thinking.
I keep getting called a lefty in our town Facebook group by people with NHS stickers on their profile pictures.
🤣 This has to be a secret leftist trolling the right. No way someone actually think this is "communism".
When you walk so far to the right, that you are arriving on the left.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but 3 rights make a left!
It makes so much sense even though it doesn't.
I just know maga would hate seeing this if they could read.
Of course his favorite book is animal farm lol
What a fucking idiot. His boss is a cheap shitbag MAGAt!
I think 🤔 my boss 👨💼 might be a communist 🔴 😫 . So a while 😦 ago, I got my first 👆paycheck 💰 at my new job 👨🍳 at a fast 💨 food 🥘 place. I guess 🤨 it wasn’t too bad, but I did the math 🔢➕🔢 and figured out that I sold 💴 a lot more food 🍔🌭 per hour ⏰ than I got paid 💵 for, even when you account 🔡➖🔢 for the price 💰 of the food 🥩. When I tried 😊 to talk 🗣 to him about it, he said 👤 we’re all part 👥 of one 🖕big team, but 🛑 some people 💁♂️ get paid 💰 more than 💴 others. This is suspiciously 🧐 close 🤨 to the famous “some are more ➕ equal ☑️ than others” from my favorite book, Animal 🐷 Farm 🏡 and is what really 💥 got me thinking 💭 about this. We 👷♀️👷👷♂️ make the money 💰, and then he takes 😡 it and gives 💵 it to someone else 😃 who doesn’t even work 😐. I’m no 🚫 economist ↗️↘️,but this is textbook 📚 socialism 🔴 🤮. I think 🤔 I’ve come 💦 to the conclusion 🛑 that the best ✅ way for me to combat 🔪 these socialist 🤢 business 💴 practices would be 🚸 teaming up 💖 with my fellow workers 🙋 unify out ✊ power 💥 and demonstrate 👨🏫🧑🏫that we understand 🧠 the full 💯 value 🔣 of our labor. Anyone 🧐 else have similar ⬅️➡️ experiences with obviously 🙄 Marxist ❌ 🤦♀️ bosses 👨💼 before, or any other 🔠 advice?
You’ve got too much time on your hands.