Linux is #1 run by corporate interests like Red Hat (who controls the entire Linux ecosystem, see systemd etc.) in the exact same way as Microsoft. Linux being open source doesn't mean it isn't a corporate project by cumulative billion value companies. It's not free software. It is what's called "embrace extend extinguish".
In short, you can only defend Linux over Windows once Linux stops accepting patches from Microsoft.
If you don't like Microsoft's contributions to Linux, you can fork it and remove them. If you don't like Microsoft's contributions to Windows, you have to use something else.
It's not just Microsoft tho. Redhat, oracle, facebook, Google, intel, AMD, they all contribute to linux. Removing their contribution would effectively make the kernel unusable
So what's the problem with that? We get contributions for free to make newer hardware working, they improve already existing stuff, they solve bugs and everyone take advantage from that.
Hardware manufactures (Intel, AMD, etc) SHOULD be contributing to Linux. How could they EEE if they aren't directly competing? The better compatibility they have with Linux, the more server CPUs they can sell. That's their motivation, and it's aligned with the OSS community.
Microsoft also uses Linux. They have both Windows Subsystem for Linux, and they also use it in house I'm certain. Linux is technically competition for MS, but not really. They aren't trying to sell Windows to the people choosing Linux. To assume malice when there's perfectly reasonable reasons for them to be contributing is likely wrong.
Red hat may be a contributor to the kernel but development is open source. See the difference between American mega corp with closed source software vs red hat contributing to the Linux kernel?
My network firewall blocks thousands of Microsoft tracking attempts per hour in my home network. My linux machine has zero packets blocked. How is this the same?
I guess you claim it's the same because you don't understand the difference, or we are talking about something else being the same, like both have desktop environments....
One is hostile against the user privacy and the other is not. They are very different. Systemd is a boot system and it's great. It doesn't call home.
I agree that Linux is the product of corporate investment and corporate priorities.
I also agree that it is “embrace and extend”. Not everybody loves the extension. The Internet is chalk full of moaning about systemd, pukseaudio, and wayland for example.
There is a lot less moaning about how great Linux gaming is now or that GNOME is pretty great now ( I don’t use it ), or that networking is super fast, or that HDR is being worked on. So, not all corporate investment is unpopular.
I guess that is why there has been so little extinguishing. Or the opposite of it. Corporate interests that invest in Linux tend to end up extinguishing their other offerings over time. Check out Microsoft in the cloud even. How much of Azure is Linux vs Windows.
Meanwhile, I can use systems that use the bits I like and replace the bits I don’t. I am loving Chimera Linux right now. No systemd in that. My main work machines use EndeavourOS which does use it but there are certainly lots of other high quality choices. Lots of other choices that are thriving ( not being extinguished ). Most of them benefit from the embracing and extending.
Microsoft has not been able to use EEE in Linux. I think they have learned there is way more money in not doing so actually.
This might be the first time I've ever seen something productive happen in the Phoronix forums. I love that place. Go to any topic with more than about a dozen posts and it's almost guaranteed to be a flame war. Genuinely one of the funniest places on the Internet.
The phoronix forums are insanely toxic. Everything is bad. Gnome = kid's toy. systemd = written by Satan himself. Every programming language = too slow. Anything vaguely interested in fostering a diversity, equity, and inclusion = true colors come out in full force.
It's so toxic yet I subject myself to it every now and again. There's absolutely no moderation going on and it shows.
It's super confusing, like I feel many commenters there live in a different universe. They talk about how Wayland is a failure that has failed to get off the ground, while it's the default in most of the major distros at this point.
There is some, but unless it gets really uncivilized no action really gets taken. a couple users have been banned
IMO I prefer it that way myself though. you either learn something neat, or engage in a class shittery. lots of other more polite forums such as this if phoronix forums isn't to taste
Interestingly, the guy who made the referenced post, 'avis', is allegedly the new name of 'birdie', a well-known troll on the forums who was banned a while back. Basically everyone there agrees that it's him and no action is taken against this new account.
I don't think there is any doubt that avis is artem lol his profile even says banned in it as a joke. as long as his behavior is better, which it has been even if only marginal, there won't be an issue. even if he does nearly single handedly cause most of the 5+ page... debates
What part of any of those opinions is toxic? Lol. If your feelings get hurt because of your parasocialtechnological relationship with software you didn't even write, take it up with your therapist.
Although, screen sharing has been solved a while ago. Any application that doesn't work is because the developers are shit (I am looking into you, zoom and you half-assed implementation using an screenshot-API-based gnome-only implementation).
Especially when the original article is about anything related to Rust. An hour after the article is live you'll have 50 posts arguing and trolling like there's nothing more important in the whole wide world. So entertaining!
NVIDIA is finally starting to play nicely with the community to help sort the driver mess out. Nouveau paired with NVK might actually be the future of NVIDIA graphics under Linux!
I still won't buy one just because of this news - they have done lots, lots of shitty things in the past. GameWorks, PhysX, Geforce Partnership Program, etc. While AMD is not exactly a saint when it comes to open sourcing, they still commit far more than Nvidia to open standards.
For me it was Gamestream. I literally didn't even check AMD because Gamestream was so important to me. My next graphics card will be the first ever not from Nvidia.
They've been dicks for two decades, just playing a bit nicee doesn't really change anything. If they work properly with open source, and enable proper in kernel drivers for the next decade or so I might consider buying something nvidia.
AMD GPUs have open source linux drivers meaning no extra configuration is needed on install. Some linux distros make setting up Nvidia really easy, but I ran into problems years ago. I think Nvidia is theoretically releasing open source drivers soon though
Not really. Instead of dumping all the drivers into one repo, there's now a separate repo just for GPU drivers, which is just a staging area, before they get merged into the main repo.
If you ask "why"? It's like creating an extra folder so that your files are organized better.
As an end user, it's not going to change anything for us.
It does mean you are more likely to get eyeballs on your driver from other people doing graphics card driver work. That usually results in higher quality and a higher likelihood of catching issues.
Unsurprising, yet it still speaks volumes.
Linux is just Microsoft for oblivious nerds
Interesting concept, what do you mean by this?
Linux is #1 run by corporate interests like Red Hat (who controls the entire Linux ecosystem, see systemd etc.) in the exact same way as Microsoft. Linux being open source doesn't mean it isn't a corporate project by cumulative billion value companies. It's not free software. It is what's called "embrace extend extinguish".
In short, you can only defend Linux over Windows once Linux stops accepting patches from Microsoft.
If you don't like Microsoft's contributions to Linux, you can fork it and remove them. If you don't like Microsoft's contributions to Windows, you have to use something else.
It's not just Microsoft tho. Redhat, oracle, facebook, Google, intel, AMD, they all contribute to linux. Removing their contribution would effectively make the kernel unusable
Isn't taking corporate money and extracting it into a public good a positive?
You have it backwards. The corporations are extracting free public contributions.
So what's the problem with that? We get contributions for free to make newer hardware working, they improve already existing stuff, they solve bugs and everyone take advantage from that.
Hardware manufactures (Intel, AMD, etc) SHOULD be contributing to Linux. How could they EEE if they aren't directly competing? The better compatibility they have with Linux, the more server CPUs they can sell. That's their motivation, and it's aligned with the OSS community.
Microsoft also uses Linux. They have both Windows Subsystem for Linux, and they also use it in house I'm certain. Linux is technically competition for MS, but not really. They aren't trying to sell Windows to the people choosing Linux. To assume malice when there's perfectly reasonable reasons for them to be contributing is likely wrong.
Average TempleOS user
At least he took his own initiative
Out of curiosity, what perfect wonderland operating system are you using then?
Placing a bet now: Windows.
What's it like having your head that far up your own asshole?
Warm and cozy? What do you expect? Why else would I be here? God you people are dumb.
How do you deal with the smell?
My ass smells like roses. The real problem is all the thorns.
I do not get your argument still. Could you elaborate further?
Sure, if microsoft or redhat was embedding malware or proprietary software via patches, sure. But their contributions are also FOSS!
Red hat may be a contributor to the kernel but development is open source. See the difference between American mega corp with closed source software vs red hat contributing to the Linux kernel?
My network firewall blocks thousands of Microsoft tracking attempts per hour in my home network. My linux machine has zero packets blocked. How is this the same?
I guess you claim it's the same because you don't understand the difference, or we are talking about something else being the same, like both have desktop environments....
One is hostile against the user privacy and the other is not. They are very different. Systemd is a boot system and it's great. It doesn't call home.
Just use whatever distro Stallman does, you'll be fine. If it's good enough for him, it should be good enough for you.
And how would anyone benefit if Linux stopped accepting patches from Microsoft?
Gate's closed, huh? Alright, I'll come back later and make sure I ask you for permission.
I agree that Linux is the product of corporate investment and corporate priorities.
I also agree that it is “embrace and extend”. Not everybody loves the extension. The Internet is chalk full of moaning about systemd, pukseaudio, and wayland for example.
There is a lot less moaning about how great Linux gaming is now or that GNOME is pretty great now ( I don’t use it ), or that networking is super fast, or that HDR is being worked on. So, not all corporate investment is unpopular.
I guess that is why there has been so little extinguishing. Or the opposite of it. Corporate interests that invest in Linux tend to end up extinguishing their other offerings over time. Check out Microsoft in the cloud even. How much of Azure is Linux vs Windows.
Meanwhile, I can use systems that use the bits I like and replace the bits I don’t. I am loving Chimera Linux right now. No systemd in that. My main work machines use EndeavourOS which does use it but there are certainly lots of other high quality choices. Lots of other choices that are thriving ( not being extinguished ). Most of them benefit from the embracing and extending.
Microsoft has not been able to use EEE in Linux. I think they have learned there is way more money in not doing so actually.
This might be the first time I've ever seen something productive happen in the Phoronix forums. I love that place. Go to any topic with more than about a dozen posts and it's almost guaranteed to be a flame war. Genuinely one of the funniest places on the Internet.
Check out this one. It took like three posts!
The phoronix forums are insanely toxic. Everything is bad. Gnome = kid's toy. systemd = written by Satan himself. Every programming language = too slow. Anything vaguely interested in fostering a diversity, equity, and inclusion = true colors come out in full force.
It's so toxic yet I subject myself to it every now and again. There's absolutely no moderation going on and it shows.
Any post mentioning Wayland or btrfs is guaranteed to have at least 60 comments
Obviously. X11 and ZFS are far superior. I use Arch, btw.
It's super confusing, like I feel many commenters there live in a different universe. They talk about how Wayland is a failure that has failed to get off the ground, while it's the default in most of the major distros at this point.
It's really good so long as you aren't trying to use it with Nvidia especially for gaming in my experience
Once in a while I venture their forums as a morbid curiosity and it always delivers.
There is some, but unless it gets really uncivilized no action really gets taken. a couple users have been banned
IMO I prefer it that way myself though. you either learn something neat, or engage in a class shittery. lots of other more polite forums such as this if phoronix forums isn't to taste
Interestingly, the guy who made the referenced post, 'avis', is allegedly the new name of 'birdie', a well-known troll on the forums who was banned a while back. Basically everyone there agrees that it's him and no action is taken against this new account.
I don't think there is any doubt that avis is artem lol his profile even says banned in it as a joke. as long as his behavior is better, which it has been even if only marginal, there won't be an issue. even if he does nearly single handedly cause most of the 5+ page... debates
What part of any of those opinions is toxic? Lol. If your feelings get hurt because of your parasocialtechnological relationship with software you didn't even write, take it up with your therapist.
Fyi, you've linked to page 4, here's where it starts.
I hope the phoronix forums never die
Man, that guy really likes X11.
Any "X11 vs Wayland" discussion will eventually devolve into a fight beteeen diehard X11 fans and diehard Wayland fans, lol.
Although, screen sharing has been solved a while ago. Any application that doesn't work is because the developers are shit (I am looking into you, zoom and you half-assed implementation using an screenshot-API-based gnome-only implementation).
I learnt how to use OBS just so I can export my screen to the camera feed because of Zoom's immensely confounding oversight considering their profit.
For what it's worth, there's XWaylandVideoBridge now which can allow screen sharing on XWayland applications.
I got to page 3 before I couldn't take it anymore and had close 🤣
Nice
I couldn't even read halfway past page 2.
I love Phoronix, but its forum is such a cesspool.
Especially when the original article is about anything related to Rust. An hour after the article is live you'll have 50 posts arguing and trolling like there's nothing more important in the whole wide world. So entertaining!
It takes whatever amount of posts is needed for something Wayland-related
How can one person miss so many logical points is beyond me
Behold! The power of open source!
This is how the rest of the industry worked for years. Nvidia was just stuck in the past century.
It's kinda wholesome ngl
NVIDIA is finally starting to play nicely with the community to help sort the driver mess out. Nouveau paired with NVK might actually be the future of NVIDIA graphics under Linux!
Might make me consider buying an Nvidia card in the future if they can get a reasonably performing and reliable in-kernel driver.
I still won't buy one just because of this news - they have done lots, lots of shitty things in the past. GameWorks, PhysX, Geforce Partnership Program, etc. While AMD is not exactly a saint when it comes to open sourcing, they still commit far more than Nvidia to open standards.
Nvidia has burned their reputation... Will take years to regain trust.
They are responsible for almost all issues new people have with Linux.
For me it was Gamestream. I literally didn't even check AMD because Gamestream was so important to me. My next graphics card will be the first ever not from Nvidia.
You could just replace it with an open source implementation of the same protocol, check out Sunshine for the server and Moonlight for the client.
From what I read, Sunshine is far from Gamestream.
They've been dicks for two decades, just playing a bit nicee doesn't really change anything. If they work properly with open source, and enable proper in kernel drivers for the next decade or so I might consider buying something nvidia.
So what are considered the most linux-friendly GPUs?
AMD GPUs have open source linux drivers meaning no extra configuration is needed on install. Some linux distros make setting up Nvidia really easy, but I ran into problems years ago. I think Nvidia is theoretically releasing open source drivers soon though
Like a specific GPU or brand?
Most AMD stuff is pretty solid using the AMDGPU driver, including stuff from the RX4xx series onward plus various APU's pretty my own experience.
Intel stuff is usually ok but I've run into some weirdness with the Atom and some other stuff with integrated graphics
It is solid until you need to use openCL (hopefully this changes when RustiCL beats the closed AMD drivers)
They all work. It doesn't matter. Just pick the one that fits your usage pattern.
Not true, AMD works out of the box with almost every distro. Nvidia doesn't work out of the box on a lot (Debian for example)
It does work with the nouveau driver and will display your desktop just fine.
If you want to play GTA, just add the nVidia repo that literally every distribution has.
Two mistakes in one word.
This is the most Phoronix forums like comment I have seen so far LOL
Legends says that there is a forum post about an article that not begins with "typo:"
For the Greater Good !
the Greater Good
Shut it!
Does that mean we'll get more and better firmware updates? Please explain like I'm no firmware dev.
Not really. Instead of dumping all the drivers into one repo, there's now a separate repo just for GPU drivers, which is just a staging area, before they get merged into the main repo.
If you ask "why"? It's like creating an extra folder so that your files are organized better.
As an end user, it's not going to change anything for us.
It does mean you are more likely to get eyeballs on your driver from other people doing graphics card driver work. That usually results in higher quality and a higher likelihood of catching issues.
Only if they know about the repo, and apparently the Nvidia employee responsible for submitting patches upstream didn't.
Maybe that's why their drivers are so bad? /s
This is the way