I believe the context of this was a thread wherein Goat was expressing that they found it important to study extremists to understand their motivations, and was promptly called a Nazi (under the justification of '9 Nazis at a table' - ignoring that the point of that is about normalization and cooperation, not observation or verbal confrontation, and ignoring that in that very thread dbzer0 users were sitting at a table with 9 Holodomor deniers and Uyghur genocide deniers) by a sizable chunk of the dbzer0 audience in the thread. And then banned by the Dbzer0 admins.
If you told me that Uyghur genocide denial and Holodomor denial would be given a pass by Dbzer0 admins a year ago, I would've looked at you like you'd grown three heads. Yet here they are now, in addition to simping for people who claim that the Soviet Union was True Democracy(tm) and denying UN-verified sexual assault because it was against 'bad camp'.
What's this entire row about db0 supporting genocide denial? I've only seen db0 downvoting goat arguing that Amnesty International supports calling it a genocide by quoting "Genocide is the wrong word to describe the horrors in XinJiang" being used as a source.
In the very thread being discussed, despite Palestinian genocide denial being removed from the comm regularly, both Uyghur genocide denial and Holodomor genocide denial remain up despite DB0, Fxomt, and Unruffled's participation in the thread - with Uyghur genocide denial upvoted by all three.
Which thread are we discussing? I tried looking at the modlogs for Flippanarchy and PTB with my assumptions of the threads we were talking about and I didn't find the stuff you mentioned, both from mbin and from dbzer0. And your post history is unfortunately too prolifically good (genuinely I like your posts and their little explanations; I've followed you) for me to find potential past posts showing modlog screenshots of what you're talking about. As far as I know "there are tons of horrific atrocities but genocide is not the right word" is approached equally no matter if referring to the Gaza or Xinjiang.
the second link is a prime example for my personal crusade against flippancy... which is, done by not agitating and thus not crusading at all uhh i guess i can't call that a crusade... it stirs things up unnecessarily in contexts unproductive, furthering alienation and dehumanization through rage, and in this case reasonably and easily misread as justification/apologia/whataboutism for China's actions.
but i don't understand the dbzer0 aspect of this at all. i still don't see dbzer0 not moderating Xinjiang as they do Gaza. if your links are referring to the vote counts, i can see upvotes (but not downvotes) as an mbin user and seemingly these votes on criticism of goat are familiar faces from the ML attention on this post, not dbzer0 (save debbs and very occasionally unruffled, who also from what i see is taking the stance of "yes there is genocide, but certain states are hypocritically hammering it as the worst thing ever while dismissing other genocides for selfish political gain instead of concern", which would explain his upvotes).
though i would find it reasonable if goat and comments related to the votes nagging (and maybe what i mentioned about Amnesty above) were being downvoting by the dbzer0 people
but i don’t understand the dbzer0 aspect of this at all. i still don’t see dbzer0 not moderating Xinjiang as they do Gaza.
There's outright denialism, including Holodomor denialism, that is left up and unremoved.
Dbzer0 is quite insistent on removing other forms of genocide denialism in that comm.
They are not removing Holodomor and Uyghur genocide denialism.
It's a very apparent double-standard, and considering what the admins upvote and at least one argues in favor of, raises some serious fucking questions.
(save debbs and very occasionally unruffled, who also from what i see is taking the stance of “yes there is genocide, but certain states are hypocritically hammering it as the worst thing ever while dismissing other genocides for selfish political gain instead of concern”, which would explain his upvotes).
"China is being shitty and authoritarian towards the Uyghurs, but it's nothing like the genocide Israel is waging", saying that Chinese influence in Myanmar is a more serious violation by the PRC than the Uyghur genocide is, and leveling a judgement of "PTB" - "Power Tripping Bastard" - towards the moderator of [MeanwhileOnGrad] for banning someone who was literally denying the Uyghur genocide.
Combined, that's pretty distinctly defending Uyghur genocide denial, and I would say right up on the border of denying Uyghur genocide themselves.
If I said, "Israel is being shitty and authoritarian towards the Palestinians, but it's nothing like the genocide the Nazis waged", would you regard that as:
A. Borderline genocide denial of the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people by reducing the ongoing genocide to something that is simply 'shitty and authoritarian' while noting that 'real' genocide is more than that
OR
B. Just making casual comparisons
though i would find it reasonable if goat and comments related to the votes nagging (and maybe what i mentioned about Amnesty above) were being downvoting by the dbzer0 people
I'm not taking into account downvotes, which can be for any number of reasons - only when the admins upvote genocide denialism.
42 replies
People do try to fuck minorities and fash up all the time. Hitler was the one who managed to do it in the way we most agree was bad actually.
But he has never been unique in trying to make evil happen.
Keep calling wannabe hitlers out. Goodwin's law was a mistake.
I believe the context of this was a thread wherein Goat was expressing that they found it important to study extremists to understand their motivations, and was promptly called a Nazi (under the justification of '9 Nazis at a table' - ignoring that the point of that is about normalization and cooperation, not observation or verbal confrontation, and ignoring that in that very thread dbzer0 users were sitting at a table with 9 Holodomor deniers and Uyghur genocide deniers) by a sizable chunk of the dbzer0 audience in the thread. And then banned by the Dbzer0 admins.
I even explained how I regularly got banned and attacked by nazis lol
But tankies gonna tank
Don't worry dude, you're a very good master debater too. If you weren't masterdebating real hard everyday we would all live under Pol Pot by now
Holy mother of seethe, this is just getting embarassing at this stage.
that must be why you're following me lol
Kinda hard to forget when you create additional accounts that get around block lists.
probably antiyanks rubbish, they've downvoted some of my posts too and even spammed me in matrix
or maybe you're brigading again
Thank you for your apology!
You should ask whoever made the accounts.
Be careful, he's a master debater. He could masterdebate with anybody, really. It's not about politics, he likes to masterdebate real hard everyday.
sorry what was that?
also applies to tankies, but db0 are tankies anyway lol
I think it’s better to name names. Calling a whole instance especially one that’s pretty diverse like Dbzer0 tankies is a bit much.
I mean we literally have a tankiejerk there [email protected]
(moved to anarchist.nexus recently which is essentially dbzer0 on piefed)
[email protected]
Like here’s how dbzer0 reacted to my anti-uyghur genocide denial meme https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/19511364
Db0 and the admins are okay with Devals, Cowabees, Diva, and other tankies spreading misinformation. They also engage in it themselves.
They are tankies. Your linked community isn't even active.
It sounds like you didn’t read my whole comment but okay.
I did.
Nazi bar anecdote. If you're serving tankies, you're a tankie.
So lemmy.world is tankie for being federated with ML?
No, because lemmy.world regularly pushes back against Tankies. Db0 defends them, and even supports their views, such as genocide denialism.
It really depends who you’re talking about really.
fxomt and cryptagion are quite far from tankies.
I’ve posted plenty of anti-tankie memes in [email protected] and got comments of support from dbzer0 himself.
So I think your whole characterisation is lacking a bit of nuance.
Like here’s how dbzer0 reacted to my anti-uyghur genocide denial meme https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/19511364
Anyways. This convo doesn’t seem particularly fruitful. So I’m gonna disengage I think.
There's some users who don't. Tankie bar.
Lemmy world spent the last two years manufacturing consent for a genocide
If you repeat genocidal propaganda, you're a genocider
Tankie apologists anymore, sadly.
If you told me that Uyghur genocide denial and Holodomor denial would be given a pass by Dbzer0 admins a year ago, I would've looked at you like you'd grown three heads. Yet here they are now, in addition to simping for people who claim that the Soviet Union was True Democracy(tm) and denying UN-verified sexual assault because it was against 'bad camp'.
What's this entire row about db0 supporting genocide denial? I've only seen db0 downvoting goat arguing that Amnesty International supports calling it a genocide by quoting "Genocide is the wrong word to describe the horrors in XinJiang" being used as a source.
In the very thread being discussed, despite Palestinian genocide denial being removed from the comm regularly, both Uyghur genocide denial and Holodomor genocide denial remain up despite DB0, Fxomt, and Unruffled's participation in the thread - with Uyghur genocide denial upvoted by all three.
Which thread are we discussing? I tried looking at the modlogs for Flippanarchy and PTB with my assumptions of the threads we were talking about and I didn't find the stuff you mentioned, both from mbin and from dbzer0. And your post history is unfortunately too prolifically good (genuinely I like your posts and their little explanations; I've followed you) for me to find potential past posts showing modlog screenshots of what you're talking about. As far as I know "there are tons of horrific atrocities but genocide is not the right word" is approached equally no matter if referring to the Gaza or Xinjiang.
Sorry, there's been a lot of 'cross-pollination' between the thread in question and these recent posts, I forget that there are people uninvolved.
https://lemmy.world/post/35172737/19114271
https://lemmy.world/post/35172737/19115995
https://lemmy.world/post/35172737/19113948
https://lemmy.world/post/35172737/19107537
The modlog is here
https://lemmy.world/modlog/824439
no need for apolo- to be sorry lol
the second link is a prime example for my personal crusade against flippancy... which is, done by not agitating and thus not crusading at all uhh i guess i can't call that a crusade... it stirs things up unnecessarily in contexts unproductive, furthering alienation and dehumanization through rage, and in this case reasonably and easily misread as justification/apologia/whataboutism for China's actions.
but i don't understand the dbzer0 aspect of this at all. i still don't see dbzer0 not moderating Xinjiang as they do Gaza. if your links are referring to the vote counts, i can see upvotes (but not downvotes) as an mbin user and seemingly these votes on criticism of goat are familiar faces from the ML attention on this post, not dbzer0 (save debbs and very occasionally unruffled, who also from what i see is taking the stance of "yes there is genocide, but certain states are hypocritically hammering it as the worst thing ever while dismissing other genocides for selfish political gain instead of concern", which would explain his upvotes).
though i would find it reasonable if goat and comments related to the votes nagging (and maybe what i mentioned about Amnesty above) were being downvoting by the dbzer0 people
There's outright denialism, including Holodomor denialism, that is left up and unremoved.
Dbzer0 is quite insistent on removing other forms of genocide denialism in that comm.
They are not removing Holodomor and Uyghur genocide denialism.
It's a very apparent double-standard, and considering what the admins upvote and at least one argues in favor of, raises some serious fucking questions.
I'm not taking into account downvotes, which can be for any number of reasons - only when the admins upvote genocide denialism.
If no one calls it out and they instead double-down, then they're supportive of it.
I use the nazi bar anecdote. If they're willing to house Davel, Cowabee, Diva and other tankies, then they themselves can be called tankies.
Db0 -- the bar for authoritarians
But that's what anarchists usually end up as, coddling up to authoritarianism and too afraid to speak out against it.
Yeah genocide is very bad.
Unless it's election time ofc. Then it's just harm reduction, really