Spyke
lemmy.world

We need different terms for people who HAVE a million dollars and people who MAKE a million per year. Lots of people will read this millionaire's tax and think it will apply to them when they are nearing retirement since they finally have a million dollars after saving all their life.

200
abraxasreply
lemmy.ml

That's what the campaign to quash the bill did. That, and tried to convince people that they might have a single multi-million-dollar transaction in their life (like selling a large successful business) and have to pay an extra 4% on it.

Always a push to get the "temporarily embarassed millionaire" to support the reach. "Yeah, yanno. My little lawmowing operation that makes me $20,000 coild sell for over a million and then I'm fucked"

70

Ah, the Philip J. Fry mentality

"someday I might be rich, and then people like me better watch their step"

32

We need different terms for people who HAVE a million dollars and people who MAKE a million per year.

We have them. The first is referred to as "Wealth" or "Worth" and the other is referred to as "Income". Therefore what Mass instituted is called an Income Tax.

2
feddit.nl

It's easier to sell a tax hike if you know exactly where it's going :)

135
theragu40reply
lemmy.world

Unless you're Waukesha, Wisconsin, where they specifically voted to stop giving kids handouts (i.e. free lunch). Because, you know, kids should work for their food or something instead of using their energy to learn.

107
Gsus4reply
feddit.nl

probably the same people that say abortion is murdering kids...

49
lemmy.myserv.one

I mean, cheap labor has to come from somewhere... Where do you find empoverished people to exploit if you don't force births?

17
Gsus4reply
feddit.nl

If you add underage labour liberalisation to that, you get a bingo!

3
lemmy.myserv.one

I'll raise you the most voted pre-candidate to president in my country, who said that people should be able to sell their own organs if they want to. (He plans to worsen things for workers in such a way that they would need to.)

1
Gsus4reply
feddit.nl

Is this guy an ultraliberal moron or a pretend-conservative who says that but thinks abortion and prostitution should be illegal?

2
theragu40reply
lemmy.world

Of course it is. But you know, kids lives only really matter up until they are born. At that point the kids, their parents and their livelihoods and happiness...all that can fuck right off.

9
affiliatereply
lemmy.world

kids just don’t want to work anymore these days. they’re too busy with their avocados and ipad games. meanwhile the child unemployment rates are at historical highs. won’t someone think of the economy?

31
lemmy.world

Waukesha County is by far the most conservative in the state, and has been playing a massive role in destroying our state's democratic process for a few decades now.

Another fun fact about Waukesha County is that they've been trying for years to glom onto the Lake Michigan watershed, which, geographically, it is not a part of. They want to straight up take our water, which they do not need, in exchange for nothing whatsoever of any real value.

16

Yeah it's a cesspool that way.

I live in the mke area and when looking for housing Waukesha was a tempting area because of how much more house you can get for the money, but I just don't think I can handle living there. Not to mention I want my kids going to schools in a community that gives a shit about kids and their education.

3

"It's about time these kids had some skin in the game!"

-Some Republican Somewhere I'm sure.

15
lemmy.world

The descriptor "free" misleads - this is exactly the type of thing taxes were always meant to pay for.

126

This I have always hated the "FREE STUFF!" talking point and how the mainstream bought it.

I'm not talking about demanding some middle class guy be forced to buy me an Xbox, but rather I'm asking multiple billionaires start paying just a little more in taxes (instead of ya know.. constant rebates for "cReAtInG JoBs") so that little Timmy doesn't die of untreated pediatric cancer.

39
hglmanreply
lemmy.world

It's mad that children could some how not deserve or accumulate debt to eat. It's even more mad that its exactly what happens.

31

It's also mad that this is also the case for adults. When you turn 18, you shouldn't suddenly lose basic rights (like access to food and shelter), but that's exactly what most capitalists want to happen (and so that's how it works).

Goods with inelastic demand shouldn't be driven by the profit motive. Food, healthcare, housing, etc. We can let luxury goods stay within the private sector for now since people don't need them to survive, and come back to that conversation at a later date.

11
lemmy.world

Free school meals should be a given since our taxes should go to what our elected officials have so thoughtfully decided where to apply them. What no one rarely brings up let alone tries to solve is the disgusting and unsafe food that the local, state and fed officials decide to make available. There's too much politics in cafeteria food. They should focus there budget in getting healthy food not the cheapest, uncles cousins or corporate friend contract.

109
Dark Arcreply
social.packetloss.gg

Yes, we 100% should be using our school kitchens as kitchens, not just reheating premade "GFS Food."

42
ryathalreply
sh.itjust.works

Aramark and Chartwells are two of the biggest companies, they are custom designing menus to fit the minimum requirements as cheaply as possible. They are getting food in the same tier as bargain frozen dinners or prison.

4
lemmy.ca

When making that argument, you'll want to add a few examples.

Otherwise people think you mean dictatorship.

25
Bo7areply

I would wager you have never been to Switzerland, or if you have, you never left the tourist traps to interact with the 'real Swiss'.

I only lived there one year, but I can tell you right now, they are not 'doing perfectly fine.'

Their pretty tourism industry hides some of the ugliest racism, faux-nationalism in the form of cantonal squabbling, sexism, anti-lgbt+, and a general dislike of anyone who does not conform exactly to their specific ways of living. Fuck Switzerland.

1
steltekreply
lemm.ee

The vast majority (262 out of 351) of Massachusetts municipalities are direct democracy. A further 31 are near enough that it’s not hard to be elected if you run (my precinct has empty rep. slots every year).

Also in contrast to the rest of the US, there are no unincorporated areas ("county land") in Massachusetts. Counties aren't a useful demarcation here. Everything is a Town or a city.

12
Bopreply
lemmy.film

I think you might be confusing representative democracy with capitalism.

10

People rarely have their own best interests in mind. People are short-sighted, undereducated, impulsive, prone to groupthink, and overestimate their ability and control.

2
pedroreply
lemm.ee

I think what is missing is control over the representatives. When you elect someone, you give them your power, you should be able to take it back when they abuse it.

In a representative democracy, transparency and control are key and when this is not enforced, people tend to think the system is broken and does not work. It would work if that is fixed

8
discuss.online

It's not a free lunch. It's just your taxes going to something you actually benefit from.

83
prolereply
sh.itjust.works

No shit. It literally says where the money that pays for it comes from right in the headline.

32

I think the point of the comment was that in the last few decades the rhetoric has been: "Taxes bad" "Government provides free bus passes to underprivileged people" Always divorcing taxes from their positive effects on society. Maybe they were trying to fight that by directly uniting the fact that the government is just a coordinator, collecting taxes and using it to buy lunches for kids.

"4% tax on millionaires pays for breakfasts and lunches for all school children" unlike the above example, is a sentence that reminds people that taxes are what provides these many positive social benefits they recieve, not "the government", not "for free", and that taxes aren't always "bad".

Or maybe I'm projecting!

23

I'd just like to add ......

literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally

.....thank you

-1

So you're implying that people regularly make $1,000,000 in annual income by working? Only about 150,000 people in the US make that much. It's their money.

-1
kattenluikreply
feddit.nl

This comment is just an extreme lack of understanding of any tax system there is, which is wild.

16
lemmy.world

Something that is free for one person will necessarily cost money for another. But for the kids, it's free.

14

Imagine being this fucking pedantic. This place is legit reddit 2.0 and that's a bad thing.

11

This comment is just an extreme lack of understanding of millionaires

2

For the children and the families of the children, it is free

I can't believe you have the upvoted comment.

0

Every time you complain, I will post a meme you wouldn't understand and a comment mocking your boomer ass.

3
lemmy.world

That's great news! No kid should ever be hungry at school, especially when they really are legally forced to be there!

77
Ragdoll Xreply
lemmy.world

But that will teach them that free stuff is good which will make them communists who love big government!!1! I want children to hunt for their own food like in the good old days. Didn't catch anything? Too bad little Timmy, guess you won't eat tonight because we don't got no welfare state!

Also I believe in protecting the children and am pro-life.

/s

26

COVID response is wild because for like 2 years we had a robust expansion of both direct government aid and healthcare coverage and accessibility, and the poof most of it disappeared. Like we literally had free healthcare at point of service for one disease which is crazy.

Great to see that at least some states responding to the demand for these heightened services. We should be pointing towards the example of COVID aid to show what the government can do if the public pressure is there. If we did it once we can do it again!

42
lemm.ee

Cool, but you know who isn’t getting a free lunch now? Those millionaires who worked so hard for that money. What have those kids done to earn theirs?

/s, to be clear. I wish these cool places to live (e.g, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Michigan) weren’t so fucking cold. Why can’t there be a nice liberal southern state?

46

Not exactly. Yeah if you want to live literally within 5 miles of the coast property out here is a bit expensive. I have a house in IB, so I paid through the nose in 2019 to get it. As I understand the market, somehow the "value" of the house has more than doubled since then and all I have improved is that we now have a wheelchair ramp, a doggy ramp out back, solar power, a power wall, a fast EV charger, and 3300 gallons of rainwater collection storage. While that stuff was expensive, it wasn't over the price of the house expensive.

That being said, there are 3-4 bedroom houses in Santee that are going for $150,000-$250,000.

If you need something that is under $100,000, then you'll need reliable transportation, but you can pick up places in Anzo Borrego for $50,000-$75,000.

Since I purchased "recently" we get real estate listings sent to us, so I have a pretty good grasp on the market. That being said, I'm of the opinion that current prices are wildly overinflated, but I don't work in real estate, so I don't know. That's just a gut feeling.

4

Uhh, the cold isn't the problem. It's too expensive to live here and the real fix for housing (forced upzoning by the State) is a political nonstarter.

But I will gladly shovel snow versus face the heat, humidiity, snakes, bears, tornadoes, severe hurricanes, drought, wild fires, car oriented development, and whatever other nightmares the rest of the country has to offer. Just get a good coat, LL Bean boots, and a snowblower. It's not that bad.

9
lobotomoreply
lemmy.world

Stupid people are lazy and don't want to shovel snow, thus selecting out where they tend to end up living.

-32
lemmy.world

Please explain Idaho, Alaska, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Utah, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, and West Virginia then. All of them are filled to the brim with some the dumbest people on Earth.

8
joel_feilareply
lemmy.world

Woo hoo suck it Alaska texas didnt make some random list on the Internet

1
cjsolxreply
lemmy.world

Is it typically expected for you to have to shovel snow in Texas?

1
solrizereply
lemmy.world

The trouble with needs based programs is that students who receive the free lunch then get shamed by other students for being poor. Thus the movement to give the lunch to everyone. The cost per student is fairly low compared to the other expenses of running a school. Plus there are savings resulting from getting rid of the bureaucracy that figures out who is needy enough to get a free lunch, getting rid of the payment collection operation, etc, that partly offset the cost of the additional free lunches.

54

It depends on how you manage it. We had a system where parents could pay up front for your lunches, and students using that system got their lunches the same way the needs-based students did - the lunch lady just checked their name off the list for the day. You could guess at who had which, probably, but there was no way to confirm it.

That being said, you're right about the bureaucracy and I'm all in favor of free lunches for all students regardless of their parents' income.

5
zephyreksreply
lemmy.ca

Then, idk, sell the lunch program on a semester-by-semester basis and offer subsidies for students who can't afford it? It isn't rocket science.

-12

Ok, but why not just not? Just feed the damn kids and quit worrying that someone somewhere is getting something they could live without.

6

You're right that it isn't rocket science, but you are still making it more complicated than it needs to be.

The solution is like how the kids are now getting ot for free in that state because of the new tax.

4
Sami_Usoreply
lemmy.world

I think it's fair to wonder why policy changes like those are being pushed so late into the presidents term. Seems like primaries and elections drive policy more than anything else.

7
candybriereply
lemmy.world

He's been pretty busy. The Inflation Reduction Act, the Safer Communities Act, the CHIPS and Science Act, the American Rescue Plan (ARP) and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act is a decent list for the first 2 years in office. A lot isn't super progressive but it's unlikely the ideas you're hearing about now will pass in their most progressive form either. But you have to start pretty far left to get anything even moderately left of center.

And, I know our election cycle makes it seem super late, but we're like 5/8 of the way into his term. Just a bit over half way. In February it was pretty much half way.

5

Even smaller stuff like the Respect for Marriage Act. Small thing that got watered down by crazy religious stuff, but hey, it was a start, and bipartisan. We need more people working together.

For what it's worth, a lot of the stuff the president campaigned on actually got done, which was very impressive.

Also got Justice Jackson through too, who seems to be pretty well grounded.

1

Yes, you are right!

It is always the go-to for politicians, I see it workong less and less as more people get informed.

2
lemmy.ml

Let's fucking goooo!!!! I love my home state ❤️. I wish they did this sooner.

36

Mass is doing so many things right. There's still a long way to go to get to European standards, but still doing a lot better than most states.

15

A European here. Aside from going in the right direction, I have a question: Don't the rich already pay most of their earnings as taxes? So the problem is not that they are not getting taxed, but rather that they avoid paying them through loopholes? Or is that a billionaire problem?

30
discuss.tchncs.de

Yeah. The problem is that the richest people have many loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Getting a minimal salary and then just taking loans against their assets is one of them.

22

This.

And to add to it. If you were making 10 million dollar and someone approached and said that they could make it so that you keep 1 million in taxes if you pay them 100 thousand you would most likely be one of the ones doing it.

If you make enough money you can afford hiring people to find new ways to keep your expenses down. Tax is an expense as any other to many rich people.

"After all, you made your fortune without getting any help so why should your earnings go to p1eople who use the system"

9
Eccitazereply
yiffit.net

Part of it is loopholes, but an equally big part is that we tax the way the rich earn their money differently. Most working- and middle-class earners make their money from a wage or salary, which is taxed as income. However, the rich make almost all of their money through dividends on stocks, low- or no-interest loans backed by assets, and selling stocks through the market or companies (that they have a seat on the board) doing stock buybacks. All of the income made from the above are taxed differently as "capital gains tax," which is usually taxed at a much lower rate than income.

15

Capital gains tax isn't 'much' lower, it's like 5% lower, depending on the bracket.

Loans make it possible to avoid taxes--temporarily. You eventually have to pay off the loan, at which point you'll pay taxes. Of course, if you're making more from your investments than you're paying in interest (and with plenty of collateral, you can get lower-interest loans), it makes sense to just pay the interest and never the principal of the loan. Of course, if loan interest rates shoot up (which they now have), this can suddenly stop working.

And right now, there is a loophole related to carrying loans--but it requires you to die. When you die, your heir is allowed to sell assets to pay off your loans without paying capital gains tax (or not as much? I don't quite remember).

4

Thanks for your answer to my question! More specific answers like this one really help reinforce what the other told me. I also appreciate you not going into politics, like a few others have.

3
solsticereply
lemmy.world

Don't let anyone tell you high income earners don't pay tax. I'm a CPA (tax) and most of my individual clients are high and ultra high net worth.

One of my biggest clients is a group of four hedge fund managers in NYC for example. They earned about $50 million each in the last few years. Idk what their net worths are but I'd imagine it's at least a few hundred million each. They pay at least 37% federal, plus investment income tax (Obamacare), plus 10% to the state of NY plus NYC. It's a lot and winds up being over $25 million a year. I don't shed any tears for them because they are left with $25 million to play with (each, per year), which they should be able to scrape by on.

You can certainly argue it should be higher or lower or whatever but there's this idea out there that wealthy people don't pay tax and it's just absurd. Also frankly it makes my job harder because people think I'm a magic anti tax wizard that just makes it go away, I'm just sitting here like you made a fuckton of money and owe a fuckton of tax, what's the question? ¯\(ツ)

13
Davereply
lemmy.world

Do you ever get a sense of whether your clients 'get' just how disproportionate there income is compared to the median?

According to this $50 million puts them comfortably in top 1%, receiving median annual US income in just under two hours (if my math is good: (40*52)*(46,001/50000000) = 1.91?).

5

Yeah it's really hard to see that in the context of kids literally starving.

Regarding your question, it's a mix. I would say many if not most understand they are extremely successful and fortunate. The variance is how out of touch they are. Some are incredibly generous, while others are grumpy or miserable. Some actually want higher taxes, some are Scrooge types.

I once had an UHNW individual who consistently donated so much to charity that he exceeded deduction limits. I had to research ways to optimize his giving, which was refreshing.

Then there was a trust fund beneficiary worth at least $100 million, a really nice guy who lived modestly, bought the whole office lunch and dressed casually. Very down to earth. We were in the process of setting up a charity trust for him before I left that firm.

Other end of the spectrum, I had a paranoid and unstable client who repeatedly pushed us to do unethical and illegal things, making everyone uncomfortable. We fired him even though he was a ~100k/yr client for us. Easy decision.

All kinds really.

8

Thanks for the answer to my question! I did not really look into this for a few years. And those that I did were when I really got into US politics. Thankfully I did 180 on that, but my knowledge from that time is untrustworthy to say the least.

Your answer really clarified and added a lot rather than repeating what others said, along with it being from a professional, which is well appreciated. So again, thank you and the others for taking the time to answer my question.

5

The issue is more likely that taxes aren't being used in ways that benefit the public, like they are in other countries. But also many Americans don't want that because grrr filthy socialism

2
Snapzreply
lemmy.world

If you're actually curious, look up "progressive tax rates". You can absolutely still get obscenely rich in the US, even if you pay your taxes as intended. They won't though, because psychopathy and crippling narcissism are prerequisites to "earning" enough money to even have that conversation in the first place.

Remember that billionaires...

  • don't live next to normal people
  • don't work next to normal people
  • don't commute/travel next to normal people
  • don't eat next to normal people
  • don't shop next to normal people
  • don't sweat next to normal people

They could not be further removed from the reality of their kingdoms below, unless they were on Mars. They don't want to contribute to the social safety nets that stop the little people from freezing/starving/dying. They'll spend a million dollars to not spend $200 in taxes that contribute to the public good.

8
AA5Breply
lemmy.world

While true …. We have different income tax brackets where those with a higher income pay a higher percentage, for federal tax. However Massachusetts had a flat tax rate on income: we all pay the same percentage. Now that state tax will be more progressive, at least to the extent that rich people have “income”

5

Thanks for your answer to my question! Simple and to the point, without getting into politics, like a few others have. I had a more general knowledge from a few years ago, so a specific for this case helped.

Again, thank you and the others who took their time to answer me.

1

That's hilarious. Only the "little people" pay taxes.

Douchebag Trump hasn't paid taxes in about a decade

4

Even ignoring every singly loophole, we tax the ways the rich collect and store their wealth at a much lower percent than actual income. Meaning even if the rich didn't dodge taxes, they end up paying much less % wise.

Adding in loopholes they pay nothing or next to nothing.

2
Mindlightreply
lemmy.world

What do you propose the government should limit/stop spending on to reach over 0.5% of the real yearly earnings of Gates, Musk, Bezos, the Waltons and all their billionaire friends?

(Note that I'm not even asking about if the actual real yearly earnings of millionaires.)

9
Mindlightreply
lemmy.world

What I know or don't know is irrelevant . You came with unsubstantiated claims and I asked you to own up to your claims.

So let's try it once more: what exactly do you suggest the government stop spending money on each year to reach savings equivalent of 0.5% of the real yearly earnings of Gates, Musk, Bezos, Waltons and their friends?

7
lemmy.world

If you want to change this person's mind, perhaps you would have better luck providing actual evidence or examples of government waste, rather than insulting them.

4
lemmy.world

Slightly off topic. A lot of public schools already get free meals thanks to federal education dollars. The school lunches are free in my area because of this, even though the (red) state won’t act.

The state has attempted to kill off those dollars in the past.

26

It's like the us is always 20 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to things that actually matter.

26
Bo7areply

I don't know who said it. But one of my favorite lines about america goes: "America will always do the right thing. After it has tried everything else"

2
lemmy.world

Indiana did free meals, then announced kids had to get approved nicknames like Florida...

22
fylkennyreply
feddit.de

What are approved nicknames? That's usually not how nicknames work.

11
grysbokreply
lemmy.sdf.org

I read an article about it recently. If a student asks to be called by a name other than the one they were registered with (for example, Benjamin asks to be called Ben or William asks to be called Sir Buttface) the school is supposed to inform the parents and get approval. A "side" effect of this is outing trans kids to their parents.

39
fylkennyreply
feddit.de

Thanks for explaining. Does sound like the only effect this law has.

8

The other (minor but possibly cumulative) effect is that it annoys every parent whose child doesn't go by their birth name. Enough little cuts like that and the GOP loses plenty of voters.

12

Just to clarify for other here. Indiana does not do universal free lunch like Massachusetts. You have to apply for it.

9

Kids get named Montana, Washington, and Indiana. "Florida" could be an ironic nickname for any of those.

2
lemmy.world

Good. Now slap a 0 to the end of that 4, and then double it.

17
kbin.social

Made me curious what the total tax rate would be in Mass. Apparently it has a flat 5% income tax, plus 4% millionaires tax, plus federal rate for income over about 578k is 37%, so altogether it’s 46% for income over a mil in Mass.

Definitely think it should be higher for such wildly high income. Also disappointed to see for being a relatively progressive state Mass has a flat rather than progressive income tax.

14
lemmy.world

Definitely think it should be higher for such wildly high income.

Higher, nothing. There should be a rate above which it's taxed at 100%. No one needs to be as rich as Musk or Zuckerberg or Bezos.

11
yoyogamerreply
lemmy.world

And yet you guys wonder why millionaires move to Texas. You increase the taxes above a certain number and they'll take all their wealth, consumption and their taxes to another state.

Taxes should be sustainable. High taxes on rich people aren't sustainable because they'll leave taking whatever taxes they pay and whatever consumption they do which contributes to the economy.

-2
lemmy.world

The wealth that they hoard? The consumption they import? Let me guess, they're also "job creators."

12

Who do you think created these corporations? Rich people with aim to make more money.

Capitalism pays your salary. Without capitalism and with theft of wealth via unfair taxation, your job won't exist.

0
lemmy.wtf

And no millioneir will keep his money in a state where those are the tax rates. If you make it too high you literally get nothing.

-3
lemmy.world

Awww. Too bad for them. What will we do without millionaires hoarding their wealth?!

11
uberkaldenreply
lemmy.world

No, he's saying they will keep it. Just in a way that mass gets literally nothing

7
lemmy.world

So either they will get a lot of money or things won't be any different except millionaires won't be there hoarding wealth?

I'm not seeing a downside yet.

11

I think they mean the millionaires will find other ways to hoard it to avoid tax levels they won't stomach. Fair? No. Reality? Probably.

9

As your income increases, your ability to reduce taxable income also increases. The goal of the state is basically to target the lazy.

3
donreply

In other words, “Don’t provide children with free meals.”

-9
AnonTworeply
kbin.social

I'm pretty sure at an 80% rate the millionaires would just spend the rate moving, out of state or out of country depending on how far reaching it was.

-13
kbin.social

And nothing of value was lost...

Like, oh no, what would a state do without their money hoarding exploiters that alredy contribute less than the bare minimum???
And worse - if everyone decided to make these laws, where will the poor millionaires escape to then???

Oh, won't someone think of the millionaires!!!11

17
atzanteolreply
sh.itjust.works

And nothing of value was lost...

Except the taxable income you wanted to tax?

-4

Oh look, someone else who doesn't understand how progressive tax brackets work. Their effective tax rate wouldn't be 80%, only income above a certain (very high) number would be taxed at 80%.

4
donreply
lemm.ee

That’s exactly how that would go.

-13
yoyogamerreply
lemmy.world

People found all sorts of loopholes to not pay that. Nobody paid that much taxes.

-2
yoyogamerreply
lemmy.world

So lemmy is just as stupidly socialist communist as reddit.. got it..

0
prolereply
sh.itjust.works

Nobody paid that much taxes.

Do you have any evidence for that claim, or are you just stating it with certainty because it feels right to you?

Nobody paid 90% of their total income because that's not how tax brackets work.

3
yoyogamerreply
lemmy.world

So lemmy is just as stupidly socialist communist as reddit.. got it..

-1

Yeah, most millionaires have no profit and they're in the red. We need even more taxes on small aircrafts that are used for private charter, more taxes on purchasing and operating helicopters, taxes on the kerosene not used in military scope.

Taxes on luxury cars that only the billionaire's afford. Every car over 150.000 USD should have a 100% tax to feed the homeless and the kids

17
rifugeereply
lemmy.world

Per the article, it's an income tax on any income over a million dollars, so it's essentially an additional state income tax bracket. So, if an entity makes exactly 1 million this year then they won't pay any extra, but if they make 2 million, then they pay 4 percent on that additional 1 mill (40k), over whatever else they would owe before the additional tax.

Like all income tax, there are ways to avoid it or reduce your burden, but not every person/company goes to those lengths.

I personally think a wealth tax is fairer for society, but it's pretty hard to implement and of course has a ton of very wealthy opposition.

13
Double_Areply
discuss.tchncs.de

I personally think a wealth tax is fairer for society

The most reasonable way I've seen so far is to assume that your wealth passively creates x% of extra income for you, and then tax that amount as income. That also simplifies the tax system, since you only need enter your assets, and not what exacts trades and profits you made.

3

The most reasonable way I’ve seen so far is to assume that your wealth passively creates x% of extra income for you, and then tax that amount as income.

I can make it simpler yet and close the Billionaire Income Loophole, where their "income" is taking out loans against value of their investments by simply taxing those loans. No need to value something, they've already done it when they took out the loan. If you borrowed 10 Million against a portfolio of 50 Million then you should be taxed on the 10 Million. That's the value you assigned and the benefit you received.

This would also catch the "Buy, Borrow, Die" / Step-Up scheme that the ultra-wealthy use.

1
beanzreply
lemmy.world

emojis, doesn't look as good on iOS because half of them are tiny so it just looks like cOkANe

9
lemmy.world

I was curious about the budgeting implications because enacting a increase to revenue doesn't necessarily mean increased spending would be covered. For any one to lazy to go off site, but also interested:

"$1 billion of the state's record $56.2 billion fiscal budget for 2024 came from the state's new 4% tax on millionaires."

"State lawmakers agreed to put $523 million of revenue from the new tax toward education and put $477 million aside for transportation."

Didn't find the cost there but on one of their sources:

"A portion of that money will go toward the $172 million needed to provide free school meals, the State House News Service reported."

8
kbin.social

So out of a billion extra dollars, they didn't even spend 20% on the kids (it's too early for me to do the calculation out of the total budget, but it'd be pitiful).
Which is great, but using them as a headline all things considered seems manipulative and like they're burying the lead.

Good for the kids, don't get me wrong, but somewhere along the way a lot more of that money has been spent on other things, and most likely is lining the pockets of the already rich and powerful.

So yeah, it's a great example of what a tiny hike in taxing the rich can do, but it not only doesn't come close to being enough, it also feels like another scam where good publicity hides a whole manner of sins going on behind the scenes.

1

Sorry if my quoting gave off the wrong impression. I believe it meant that of the total 1 billion dollars 523 million will be spent on education. Of the 523 million to be spent on education 172 million will be used to pay for lunches. The remaining 351 million I would assume is being used for other educational expenses like new equipment or for salaries.

Perhaps there is miss management of the funds but I don't think that it fair to conclude the 351 million has been misappropriated just based on this information.

7

I mean all we know so far is that half of the new tax is going to education (and 172mil of that has already gone towards an excellent cause) and half is going to transportation. Of course skimming off the top is incredibly common, but I think it’s far too early to call the amount misspent.

7

If they could line the pockets of the MBTA, that would be great thanks.

3

why spend more on something than you need to? plenty of others besides kids who could use the services the additional money will pay for.

1
lemmy.world

Not to discourage continued bleeding of the rich, but I wonder if this is the right way to go about it. Theoretically, we should already have a lot of laws on the books that slam millionaires for their advantageous position. But, their budget also allows for accountants that shift and hide that money, sometimes on a questionable basis of legality.

Could one prong on this assault be to increase the IRS' operating budget, so that they're able to track down and stop more of these tax haven shenanigans?

7
lemm.ee

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough. This is working, let it work. If they start avoiding it the rules can be changed.

55
abraxasreply
lemmy.ml

Exactly. When I supported this, there was that wince of "this won't get the people it really needs to hit"... but it does enough.

And tbh, I know some wealthy fucking people who legitimately don't cross the line. $1M/yr is a lot of bloody money. That means if I found a way to "only" make $900,000/yr, I'm immune to this tax.

Also, anyone hiring for $900,000/yr?

12

Right? I hear this all the time about inheritance tax. Im more than willing to pay inheritance tax, meaning I’m getting like $3.5 Million to start.

6
elucubrareply
sopuli.xyz

It's not bleeding anyone. My father was an airline flag carrier captain in Europe. He made what he called "an obscene paycheck". When taxes came around, he would say: look at what they are taking from me, I must be making a ton!

11

And that’s still only employee money. Very very high paid employee money, but ultimately still labor.

You wouldn’t believe what you can pull down if you live off other people’s labor.

2

And most likely he was paying more then than someone earning the same amount does today. We're not even close to scrapping our way back out of society being profoundly imbalanced towards the wealthy.

2

Could one prong on this assault be to increase the IRS' operating budget, so that they're able to track down and stop more of these tax haven shenanigans?

Well you could simply start by plugging up a few questionable tax loopholes.

Whether or not the reason the IRS can't collect the tax revenue to be able to provide certain services is because of them not having enough money, I don't know.

But if you're issue is with certain laws on taxation, it would makes more sense to deal with those first.

EDIT: To mention something else that's important to all of this, there's something called the Laffer Curve. The simple explanation is that there's a happy medium between the percentage of income tax and the amount of tax revenue gained. Too much or too little income taxation and you end up with less tax revenue. You can see this in a few times during US history where the income tax wasn't as high, but the tax revenue was great. So to further determine where we should go with income tax you could look at the past few years of projected and actual tax revenue, as well as spending to service government debt among other government spending.

I'm not an economist nor an accountant, but this is likely what you'd have to do to figure out the balance between taxation and government spending in order to have money for certain social services. However, no one wants to do that and another big problem is the government doesn't like being told it needs to manage it's spending better.

10
Brokkrreply
lemmy.world

I don't think they can. States are allowed to tax their citizens and the Supreme Court has no jurisdiction.

16
lemmy.world

Why are you so confident that they'll still care about jurisdiction 2 years from now? The SCOTUS does not respect or obey the law or the constitution.

We've been watching them ignore more and more of the rules and precedents that the court has always held to. They're becoming more and more confident in their ability to do whatever the fuck they want, because, as it turns out, in the real world, the SCOTUS is accountable to no one except maybe the mob violence that we are going to see when things continue to not improve.

-1

First off, I absolutely will not defend the current Supreme Court. I disagree with them significantly.

However, their opinion in this matter has only slightly more importance then yours or mine, and only because they are recognized legal scholars (or at least they are supposed to be) and we are not. The US Constitution does not grant them any power to judge a State's constitution, so long as it does not infringe on a right of the US constitution. It wouldn't even be possible to petition the Supreme Court on this issue because no lower court would hear it.

2

First they came for the millionaires, and I did not speak out - because it's only 4 fucking percent and they're still not going to lose any sleep over their bills or if they'll ever retire.

1
piecatreply
lemmy.world

Good point! These kids should starve if their parents don't work hard enough. Those millions and billionaires worked hard for their money!

8
lemm.ee

You mean to tell me that people who work in the US dont get enough money to buy food? Lol, you have not been outisde of the US have you?

-1

I'd ask if you understood how cost of living works; but clearly you don't.

1
lemmy.world

They don't need more tax they just need to stop squandering it. My town has turned into idiots first sim city playthrough.

-5

They always say that and they never leave

A lot of bluster and blubbering about what would happen if so and so law passed. Never works. They're still making plenty and once they're done whining they stay put

4

Revenue from the new income tax is earmarked for public school meals.

As the kids get free food now, some rich people must be left in the state. Maybe the ones with an actual heart?

Looking at this from a community perspective, rich people that don't contribute to the community is kind of worthless anyway.

3