problem is not Netanyahu, it is not Ben Gvir. it is the white supremacist mindset of Israeli public.
problem is not Netanyahu, it is not Ben Gvir. it is the white supremacist mindset of Israeli public.
#Israel #Genocide #Politics #Inhumanity #Racism
@[email protected] @[email protected] @israel
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Remember that the Holocaust had majority support in Germany too.
Saying Israel is like Nazi Germany is absolutely not a metaphor. There are more similarities than there are differences, they just switched up which ethnic group is the target.
https://zionism.wtf/ Though quiz for the daring and the ones who are still unsure if there are parallels.
13 eight and 8 wrong.there really is no difference in rhetoric.
@HiddenLayer555 @faab64 There are lots of parallels, you may want to read my essay on the topic here:
https://farid.ps/articles/victim/_mentality/_scapegoating/_dehumanization/_genocide
Generational trauma. It's probably exactly the same thing.
I'm tired of hearing this. Every population has a segment of straight up fascists in it and the zionist project explicitly selected for those people. Calling it generational trauma is centering the jewishness of the project and doing the same equating that they do to justify themselves. Most jews don't live in 'israel'. Most jews aren't fascist. Most jews don't display this 'generational trauma'. And there are a lot of fascists of other backgrounds that don't have the 'generational trauma' yet exhibit the same attitudes.
So that's not what's going on. They're not victims; they're fascists.
@AntiOutsideAktion @thepenismightier The victim mentality plays a central role here. Like the Germans they are blaming - dehumanizing - murdering others for their own shortcomings.
https://farid.ps/articles/victim/_mentality/_scapegoating/_dehumanization/_genocide
@HiddenLayer555 you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and read a book
What book would you suggest?
@NotASharkInAManSuit
"The Good Germans: Resisting the Nazis, 1933-1945" by Catrine Clay
"Ordinary Men"
By Christopher R. Browning
"Defying Hitler"
By Gordon Thomas
These are the english books I would recommend to see that Nazis had about 14% of the population backing them, an even smaller group were aware of the atrocities of them. The vast majority of the population were either not aware or chose to look the other way.
Same thing in the USA. Trump is a symptom. He could drop dead tomorrow and somehow take half of the admin with him, and the problem would still be there. The underlying problem is that roughly 1/3rd of your population is frothing at the mouth to slaughter another 1/3rd while the final third stand by and watch silently. This is not something you can fix with elections alone.
@Kyrgizion exactly.
This is the problem I have with blue MAGAts on bluesky. They are so focused on Trump and the BS story of Russia causing the problem in their society, they ignore the massive army of evangelical Christian Zionist movement that got Bush and Trump into power and control most of the media in the country.
It's the pre programmed mindset Hollywood worked so hard for decades to get into people's heads that the problem is always because of one bad guy not the movement behind it
If trump were the problem, that means that other republicans would fall in line behind a more centrist candidate. However, that means they don’t actually stand for their own beliefs and that they’d also fall into line behind a more extreme right candidate, of which we have plenty in the line of succession.
There’s something somehow even more hateable about a politician who’s not actually fascist themselves, but who will gladly support them.
@idiomaddict
"There’s something somehow even more hateable about a politician who’s not actually fascist themselves, but who will gladly support them."
I fully and wholeheartedly supporting that statement.
Those enablers are far worse than those fascist themselves.
It's just sickening to watch them sell their sole to the devil for fame and fortune.
Sigh. Bluesky was so much better before blue maga showed up. The shitposting was top notch and people were allergic to discourse.
I miss those days.
In your example, where’s the fraction of people who aren’t watching silently?
@AtariDump @Kyrgizion
they are protesting or are high on xanax or pot
in the last U.S. elections, 98% of voters voted for genocide
That's why I said 98% of voters
is a person who chooses to not drink alcohol a drinker?
And according to some on here, we shouldn't blame any of the individuals in that final third because it's not fair to put the blame on them for the shit they stand by and tacitly support or something.
It's amazing how far some people will go to excuse the actions of those who are content to watch fascism take hold and murder it's fellow citizens while doing nothing about it.
It's funny how this comment can be read by two opposing sides who would still agree with it:
I personally strongly disagree with one of those statements but both can be interpreted 100% in agreement with what you wrote
I'd love to see you make that argument, considering the 'did not vote' crowd would be much closer to supporting this than the democrat vote.
"the people who didn't vote for genocide are actually closer to supporting genocide then the people who explicitly voted for genocide"
I will excuse a lot of those people here in the US.
In my own case, I am physically disabled at the moment watching the people taking care of me and providing me transportation be horribly overworked to the point where it is painful to watch. What should I be doing with my time? Should I judge my caretakers for not making some sort of time? Is it inexcusable that I am not pressuring them to do something?
I'd like to know actually what I can do, because I'm not happy with where things are. You suggest it's a moral failure but I literally don't know what action I can take that would not be judged a moral failure.
Maybe my situation is unique in some ways, but it's not that unique in the idea that for a lot of people, finding more time could cost the livlihoods of both them and their dependents. Maybe the people you meet in your day-to-day life can easily find time to organize, etc at no significant cost, but the majority of the remaining population are oppressed themselves, just in a less severe way. Every family is isolated, and when you are isolated with a precarious livlihood, setting aside time for something comes at a cost, so is a serious choice. The obvious answer is to try to become less isolated, but that requires setting aside time without guaranteed payoff. It's easy to judge people for not doing that when there's no potential cost to your own dependents.
Most people here are living day-to-day trying to cling to what little joys they have. You can come up with laundry lists of ways they are wasting their time and money, but those wastes are hard to give up for someone living day-to-day. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but decrying the inaction from the majority of our population is shifting blame to the powerless.
I'm sorry to hear that you're disabled friend, I have a few friends that are fairly disabled as well, so while I can't understand your situation, I can at least sympathize with what you may be going through.
Being housebound definitely limits your options, but there are ways to vote early (which takes much less time and would likely not impact your caretakers as much if planned ahead of time) and absentee which would allow you to still vote even when the cards are stacked against you. I know that those options are not universal, but they've at least been available in the couple states I've lived in and the ones my friends live in (which, is still only like a half dozen total).
See, I don't see it as shifting blame to the powerless, I see it as calling out the culpability of those who are powerless because they choose not to exercise the little power they have. I understand there are quite a few who are able to vote on paper are unable to vote due to circumstances in life. But, speaking from personal experience, I've also known plenty of people who choose to do nothing while complaining about the state of the world or their life while they passively watch time slip away. I want to make sure you understand I'm in no way suggesting you are a part of this group, but I've had this argument with blood family for over a decade until they passed as well as with many acquaintances over my life. Most were the type you see on lemmy that would rather not vote if there isn't a perfect candidate on the ballot, even if there was one candidate that they agreed with the majority of items.
So it may be personal experience coloring my opinion, but I see nothing positive coming from not acknowledging that there is a full third of our country that chooses not to participate in the process when that inaction is how we get shitheads like trump in office. I'm a firm believer of 'inaction is still a choice', so I'm not going to let people who chose not to participate have a pass without commenting on it. Because a fraction of those people participating could have changed where we are today and prevented letting the American Nazi Party from running rampant on the people and their rights.
I have trouble taking the judgment about "lesser evil" seriously of someone who describes "actively aiding and abetting the most brutal genocide of the era" as "not perfect"
And allow the American Nazi Party (but Blue) to run rampant on people and their rights
BoTh SiDeS aRe ThE sAmE arguments are why people don't take you seriously. It's almost hilarious how arguments like this devalue just how awful the right is, when you're comparing concrete domestic trans, POC and intellectual attacks from a party that supports Israel to the party that just supporta Israel.
I would laugh if I was sure you didn't actually drink the flavoraide.
just supports Israel. Oh boy.
People in Gaza has so less value for you than the American citizen?
Of course I care about the Gazan people, that's why I didn't want the "glass them all" party to win. But because they're not good, we let fucking awful go for it instead. One side has a chance to be reasoned with, and the other is no chance in hell. Inaction chose the no chance in hell option.
I'm not going to lie and say there was a good choice available. But we chose greater violence while preaching for no violence. So I don't know what to tell you, other than sometimes you have to compromise to engage in harm mitigation otherwise you can end up with harm maximization.
I don't think you can talk about other people devaluing how awful things are when you're trying to pass off "actively participating in the most brutal genocide of the era" as "not perfect". Also when you're trying to say that only the lives of domestic citizens are "concrete", it really sounds like you just don't consider foreigners fully human. The democrats absolutely support killing trans people, PoCs, and intellectuals, they just support doing it in Gaza. The number of people being killed domestically by the right, as terrible as it is, is not even a rounding error compared to the number of people, even just LGBT people, being killed in Gaza as a bipartisan policy. And yet only the lives of the first matter, and caring about the lives of the latter is "drinking the flavour aid"
Okay, I thought we were discussing something wholly different. I worked in Dearborn and we all had friends who lost relatives as our country refused to stop sending arms. One of my best students completely fell off after losing a lot of her extended family and it was painful to watch.
But you don't need to have personal experience with someone affected to be outraged. It's a line some people are unwilling to cross. I am one of them. Downplaying that as they "would rather not vote if there isn't a perfect candidate on the ballot" is either wholly disingenuous or a complete absence of empathy. A candidate I have "agreed with the majority of items" but disagreed on the morality of supplying weapons used to commit a genocide is one I will not vote for.
If the president is aware that he is sending weapons killing innocents and still signs off to send more, and one of those bombs kills someone I love, would you blame me for not voting for him? If not, why would you blame someone who empathizes with me for making the same decision?
The democrats did not have to support this, and would have won the election if not for this complete moral bankruptcy. Blaming nonvoters is shifting blame from the powerful to the powerless.
82% of israelis want to ethnicly cleanse every gazan, which is a crime.
56% want to eject every non jewish israeli citizen from Israel, regardless of their citizenship.
And about half want to outright murder every palestinian regardless of age or guilt of anything. Its a country chock full of violent terrorists and a whole lot of fans of murder of innocents. Those are much worse statistics than nazi germany had. Just 18% of Israelis belong somewhere besides chained in a cell.
But dont get caught saying anything bad about zionism or having a political opinion that runs counter to Israel's will. Then youd be an antisemite, which is worse than being a war criminal, evidently.
Don’t forget it also tends to be a haven for people fleeing charges for sex crimes.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-07-25/ty-article/.premium/tip-of-the-iceberg-how-foreign-sex-offenders-find-refuge-in-israel/00000182-3532-d7e9-af96-3d73c52c0000
I can only find articles about the poll, but not the poll itself. Anyone got more luck?
Edit: I honestly think this shouldn't be posted without a solid source. It could be fake and would serve to 1) make the Israelian government able to say "look, we have that much support from the public to continue the genocide" and 2) further the divide of the actual people living in the whole region regardless of made up borders.
@Duke_Nukem_1990
Don't have time to go through the translation, but the source is here
https://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/2025-05-22/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/00000196-f3a3-d6d3-ab9e-f3bbf6070000
I saw that linked as well but isn't that an article too?
The original poll was supossedly requested by Penn state university and done by a company named "Geocartography".
I found this
https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-have-migrated-from-the-margins-to-the-mainstream-250010
This article is by the person who commissioned the poll and contains a link to what I assume the text of the poll was.
It survey 1000 respondents, but I'm not sure if hard any checks built it to check how representative. It doesn't look like it's going to be peer reviewed, it was commissioned by a history professor. But he makes some interesting arguments in the above article.
But did it ever capture headlines...
@Duke_Nukem_1990
Did you create this profile just to post some garbage comments about this?
Yes, I waited almost a year and 1.2k comments to ask for proof on your post 🙄
Weird, that you would react so hostile.
@Duke_Nukem_1990 I don't know, because any idiot with half a brain could have made a simple search before posting such garbage comment and the profile of you I see only shows 2 comments, maybe because of your shitty pod.
I am just sick of idiots who sit on their ass questioning everything that doesn't fit their pre-defined view of the world.
that's all.
I did search for the source and didn't find it and obviously you are unable to produce one either.
Right, I should instead just believe a random twitter post from a random person. Is that how you usually form your opinions?
@Duke_Nukem_1990
Didn't the reply post with The Conversation, plus Farhad's citation of the original Haaretz article satisfy you?
Do you really think that all of those publications and organizations are distorting something? Or, as Farhad thinks, are you just being an asshole?
@TheDoozer @faab64
For what it's worth, I see a screenshot of a post on X from a guy about a highly contraversial subject, and I am immediately skeptical. Somebody asking for a source, and not just another person talking about the source, is very reasonable.
Getting immediately defensive about being asked for the source material makes me immediately question the integrity of the OP and much more inclined to believe it's misinformation. Any reasonable person these days knows that even without lying, polling information can be distorted to say the exact opposite of what the poll actually suggests. "Do your own research" is also the motto of misinformation distributors.
I'm very much against the Zionists, and am fully in support of Palestine against genocide, to be clear. But this whole interaction makes you seem disingenuous.
@TheDoozer
Another troll to block 🚫
@faab64
@TheDoozer at least 4 ppl posted the link to the source.
But the keyboard warriors of the freaking Lemmy don't feel it's enough.
What a shocker
Nobody posted a source, only articles talking about the poll. Why are you so dishonest?
@Duke_Nukem_1990
You really are an asshole.
Just get loste
What's your issue?
Its not even a country, its a military occupation zone and the people a colonialists. So yeah what a shocker that people in the ZOZ (Zionist Occupation Zone) are extremely racist. Im in the ZOZ rn (long story, my parents thought it would "turn me into a Zionist") and yesterday they celebrated the brutal occupation of east Jerusalem. In that parade people waved "Israeli" flags happily alongside Kahanism flags, even Zehut showed up (far-right "Libertarian" Zionists).
For sure, but netanyahu is also very much a problem.
Schrödingers only Democracy in the Middle East.
Government is legitimate because it enacts the majority will of the people, but the government statements and actions are not representative of the majority of the people...
Unfortunately i am afraid we will see mostly the same shit like in post war Germany when everything is over. Denial, pretending to not having known, claiming to have been mislead, just following orders...
"Palestinians voted for Hamas democratically, but Israel is the only Democracy."
"Palestinians voted for Hamas" is such a braindead statement IMO. Yeah, they did, twenty years ago, after which Hamas promptly murdered the opposition and never held another fair election.
Ethno-states gonna ethno-state.
in case you're wondering, here "white"="majority," not the definition used politically in most countries. Retro-etymology being "blank," or "standard," like a sheet of paper without details. In Japan, for instance, white people are ethnically japanese. I point this out because in Israel the majority would not be considered white in many places in the world; Jews would elsewhere be considered a diverse conglomerate of ethnicities.
I normally advocate for terms like "racial supremacist" or "ethno-supremacist" in a context like this because people don't get nearly as defensive when they hear this, but white supremacy is catchy as a term I guess and so it perseveres.
It's a way to virtue signal, misdirect the anger and get clicks
@jsomae
Fair enough. But the problem is that most of them are white Europeans
Aren't most Israeli Jews not European but Middle Eastern?
The problem isn't that they are white Europeans at all, even if it's true they are, the problem is that they are a settler colonial project.
well this is a fascinating query because it depends on when you're asking the question. pre 1950s I'd say for sure, yes, the vast majority were of middle eastern origin, but after the holocaust? no, millions of european jews and also soviet jews (russia, belarus, ukraine but also the stan countries all pushed enormous amounts of their jews to immigrate) after Israel began to grow changed that.
It's about 45%Mizrahi and 32% Ashkenazi.
There is an argument that the increase in Mizrahi is what props up the Ashkenazi settler movement though.
Yes, you're correct. And even the Europeans are mostly Ashkenazi, who are sometimes considered white, sometimes not. If you ask the KKK, definitely not white -- IMO that's really what matters; if there are hate groups out for you, you're probably not white.
@IttihadChe
JFC
? JFC?
That's actually not a problem. White europeans aren't more capable of ethno-supremacy than other races. (Putting aside whether Ashkenazi are white in that sense at all -- presumably not, since part of the reason Israel was funded was to get the Jews out of europe.) The problem is that Israel is an ethno-supremacist settler-colonist state. If you removed the Ashkenazi from Israel, the Sefardi for instance, or Mezrahi (who unarguably don't resemble white europeans) would continue the settler-colonism on their own. They don't actually need the Ashkenazi Jews for the state to perpetuate.
Whiteness is a malleable social construct that is entirely dependent on who's passing as the default of settler society. The fact that Ashkenazis were not considered white in 1930s Germany has as little bearing on their whiteness today as Italians being considered people of color in 19th century USA.
I'm not talking about 1930's Germany, I'm talking about the USA today lol. But yeah, it's not relevant in Israel -- that's my point.
Yeah, I seem to have misread you, apologies. Not gonna edit the comment because it kind of says the same thing from a different angle.
Well, that depends. I'm not familiar with the voting system in Israel but in the US for example it makes no sense and barely represents the people. So I wouldn't claim something lije that so quickly.
And we already know that tgere is a big divide in the coubtry about Netanyahu, so I doubt they have a very representative election process.
Support for the genocide is pretty universal across the Israeli political spectrum, outside of Arab Israelis. Netanyahu is divisive because he's corrupt, not because of the genocide.
@Tooden @[email protected] @[email protected] @israel
Exactly, in a democracy, when people keep chosing fascists, it is no longer the fault of the few by the failure of the society. Even if the extremists are few, they get enough support among the masses to keep getting elected and protect the criminal extremists.
Durable peace in the middle east is not possible while the state of Israel exists.
zionists not conflating genocide and the dissolution of a state challenge (impossible)
@Coding4Fun
It's not about the state Israel, it's about letting them get away with any crime they desire.
Israel have destroyed any chance for a w state solution, the only viable option left is a one state solution similar to that of South Africa, but it's not going to happen because of the power christian Zionists in the US and the rest of the world.
I honestly have no idea how this madness can be stopped without destroying the biggest religious cult in the west.
Much of what they've done in Palestine has been officially sanctioned and co-opted by western powers - it isn't at at all about the legality of what they are doing
Fuck Israel, genocidal scum!
Source?
@circledot
https://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/2025-05-22/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/00000196-f3a3-d6d3-ab9e-f3bbf6070000
Unpaywalled link: https://archive.md/yI4Dy
For some reason, I can't get the whole page to translate no matter what machine translation service I used, but here's a translated excerpt from below the first graph:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support-expulsion-palestinians-gaza-poll I think it’s this? Not OP.
Yeah, i know those things are true because they have been known for a while and confirmed multiple times, but still its good to have a direct source link, even if the publisher was specified.
The twitter post even has the timestamp removed which is always bad.
@faab64 Not only Israel. I think it is widespread in every government having supported them after the ICJ warrants.
@faab64 @[email protected] @[email protected] @israel
Source: https://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/2025-05-22/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/00000196-f3a3-d6d3-ab9e-f3bbf6070000
Archived version: https://archive.md/yI4Dy
It can be, and in fact is, more than one thing. In fact, all of these are even related closely. Wouldn't want people to mistakenly think your goal is to direct attention away from those who are most directly culpable for action when it comes to Genocide, that'd be... weird, right?
I think it's pretty obvious that their point is that Netanyahu is a symptom of a deeper evil, but go off with your vague accusations and insinuations I guess
@BrainInABox @Binturong
Netanyahu is the flag bearer of the Israeli fascim, the flag was handed over to him from Begin and Sharon and will be given to another monster who maybe even worse than him.
He is not the reason for Israeli atrocities, he is the child of a supremacist mindset who lies with not shame and gets away with it.
He is far worse than Trump, because he is not an idiot and knows how to manipulate others without looking like a clown. .
They did not "gain power" with Netanyahu. Israel has been a genocidal colonial project from day one and had close collaboration with Nazi Germany before the Holocaust.
"How many Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto support forced expulsion of Germans?
Everyone has infinite sympathy for their own tribe and infinite hostility for those that attack them. News at 11."
Man, I really wish I could see the original comment you responded to - but a mod deleted it. 😕
You can, the moderation logs are public. I don't know how to access them from the app but on web you just click the three dots and "See comment moderation"
The fact that you think I'm here to tout Jews is proof of how lost this whole struggle is. Being right has no ethnicity. Nor does being wrong. If you disagree, you're on the same side as the people putting Jews and Palestinians alike in ghettos.
I'm not even sure what this sentence is supposed to mean. But what I think you're here to do is spread smug, above-it-all, both-sidesism about the must brutally one sided genocide of our era. And stating that you would have done the same thing during the holocaust
If there was a Jewish person saying the problem wasn't Hitler or the Nazis but the German people, yeah I'd absolutely do the "both sides" thing and criticize that guy. Because that's no different than what the Nazis say, just applied to different people.
And if you had Jewish terrorists in the US attacking German Americans with guns and even flamethrowers, I'd find this rhetoric all the more appalling.
Please tell me you're a bit account.
@rational_lib another sgi-forf-brain idiot coming to defense of the genocidal regime of Israel.
Not even worth engaging, just block and move on.
"Pro Germany zealots and Jewish zealots both want endless war. The few people who want peace for everyone have been excluded from the conversation almost entirely."
@rational_lib @faab64 The above post was empirical, where are your numbers or is it just yourself you are talking about? My personal experience before the war genocide was, that most Palestinians have nothing against Israelis, they just want to live a hapoy family life in peace.
So where are your numbers.
Ok I wrote that a while ago before I went on vacation, not at all sure why it was deleted. But are you asking me for numbers to validate tribalism? Just look around.
So you're just pulling it out of your ass?
Israelis don't consider themselves White. Saying that the problem is "White Supremacy" shows that you're looking at the problem through a lens that is very conditioned for Western politics
lol
first article on google btw
We can talk about it from a lens of Western politics. Because it is western politics. Because Israel is literally European colonialism
You can take the settler out of Amerikkka, but you can't take Amerikkka out the settler
They also outright refused to consider Ugandan Jews as Jews, while the rabbinic conferences all over the world had no problem with it.
@Richat the foundation of Zionism is in white supremacy under the cover of Judaism.
Zionism is a western problem z it was created in central Europe, just like fascism with the same kind of mindset.
One was about Arian people, the other about Jewish people, both with the same disregard to others and the right to exterminate their opponents with no mercy.
@Richat
Oh, another #Zionist troll. So many #Zionazis our this morning. #BlockZionists
@faab64
We need to reject those who blame Jews.
Not for optics, and not because it would get us in trouble to be associated with those people, but because Jews as a whole are not responsible and should not be held responsible for the actions of Zionists -- zionists who are represented by a lot of Jews, but also by a lot of christians, atheists etc. who should not be blamed any less for their ethnicity/religion, just as Jews should not be blamed for the actions of zionists.
@mukt
What the fuck does that mean exactly?
It means exactly what it says.
Spare me the crocodile tears, genocide apologist.
More like crocodile yawns.
Wow dude that's like so cool fr, I bet all the girls in your middle school think you're the smartest most skeptic guy ever
I don't have a middle school, but if I had, most here would be able to learn something from my students.
More Jews live outside of Israel than within it.
Opposing Israel and Israelis is not the same as opposing Jews.
It's dangerous to conflate all Jews with the genocidal Israel as you are doing here, but I believe you know that already and do it intentionally.
I believe you have already seen headlines of the cold blooded murder of a jewish couple in the US.
I don't think hate is limited to one or two countries in Nazism 2.0. It is global this time.
"cold blooded murder of a Jewish couple" is a very strange way of saying "targeted assassination of 2 ambassadors for the Israeli genocide state one of which being a former IDF Soldier and a Christian from Germany".
Like I said though, but even more assuredly, you know this is a dangerous conflation and do it intentionally. Zionism feeds on and thus encourages anti-Semitism.
Are you claiming that they murdered ambassdors?
I am sorry, I can't follow through what your point is or why exactly you seek corrections in mine.
I have not seen this, what are you referring to?
You haven't seen what OP posted?
No?
ok
So what are you referring to?
Thanks for confirming. Not that anyone is mistaken.