AND he only did so after the "proper channel" for whistle blowing, his internal superiors, told him to shut the fuck up.
I feel this always needs to be said. The United States has a lot of slogans and posters about integrity and ethics for a nation that has neither in practice.
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
― Anatole France
Thanks for reiterating this and posting a source. Every time I see an article on Snowden year over year, someone brings up the tired old "argument" that because he is now trapped in Russia, that somehow makes everything he did "wrong", and invalidates everything he exposed the government for doing. The media campaign against him was apparently quite effective, and these soundbites are ever ready to jump out of people's mouths without any research or critical thinking.
...Leaked to a reputable member of the fourth estate to decide what was safe to report. Do you disagree with the founders of the United States about the importance of the fourth estate's role in keeping leadership honest?
The only other steps short of that would have been to either quit and shut the fuck up or continue participating and shut the fuck up.
Sounds like you just wanted him to shut the fuck up about your freedoms being eroded by the government that's supposed to protect them.
I don't believe willful ignorance is a defensible position, ever.
It very much is, if the offense is egregious. And the NSA spying on everyone and their employees trading nudes the NSA collected very much is egregious. And to make it sound like he just dumped the raw leaks does not make your argument seem more credible.
The security breach was the NSA letting anyone fiddle with the data. They should be thankful Snowden leaked them instead of a foreign intelligence service listening in for years unnoticed.
Except it's exactly what David Grusch did, with no proof, and yet we have multiple oversight hearings and amendments to the defense authorization, and he made international news
Snowden is a textbook example of why organizations should not be allowed to police themselves or control the avenues of reporting misconduct.
There should be a memorial to him in DC. Ruined his life to tell the people what their elected officials are doing with all of the power we grant them.
But no, to save face, ego, etc we drove him into the willing arms of Putin to be able to use as a propaganda tool so he wouldn’t be killed for daring to speak truth to power.
Support for prosecuting him did untold damage to my opinion of Obama.
Snowden deserved Obamas pardon a lot more than Manning. I get the sense that Manning leaked stuff for the sake of leaking stuff, while Snowden uncovered a vast domestic and unconstitutional espionage program to which the general public was unaware.
NSA being an angry little child with a napkin aside, I believe there was a legal hurdle to Snowden being pardoned: You need to be tried & sentenced before a presidential pardon can be applied, as far as I understood.
Of course he's not a traitor. He exposed politicians who were actively violating the constitution. Those politicians are the traitors, traitors to American ideals and laws. At the very least, they're criminals.
The quotation mark one is common in books yeah, but the parentheses one referred to by the comment you responded to isn’t. I haven’t seen that one either.
Being a programmer finally won out over my writing background. For example, I know the rule in the US is to include punctuation inside the quotation marks, but I just can't do it anymore if the punctuation mark is not actually part of the quote. "The British do it right, in my opinion".
As a native English speaker I feel like I get a say in this. This is the worst rule I've seen proposed. Unbalanced quotation marks are confusing as hell.
While we're at it, putting punctuation inside quotation marks when it's not actually part of the quote also needs to be fixed. And the whole he/she thing.
Normally if a quote spans multiple paragraphs, you don't close the quote at the end of the paragraph, but you do start the next paragraph with quote marks.
This is just one sentence with three sets of double quotes.
There’s no chance he’ll be allowed back in the US after, understandably, becoming a piece of the Russian propaganda pie. He’s basically trapped in Russia. On the bright side, it’s a gilded cage where he resides with his family.
Not even an impossible task. We just need a President that actually loves what America professes to aspire to. It's what the Presidential pardon is for.
Not like that! Do it how we meant to say but couldn't quite bring ourselves to say publicly. The way that protects the military industrial complex and the corporations and the lobbyists and the government officials from any charge of mendacious greed.
My favourite moment of that era was when Obama told us he was just about to drop dime on all the spying and Snowden beat him to it. Dang it Snowden, now I gotta eat shit on live TV. The American state simply cannot be trusted whatsoever.
Unrelated question, but ever since Snowden became a citizen of the Russian Federation, could be be drafted during a round of conscription? Or would they use him for cyberwarfare?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to fight Ukrainians.
Wasnt a choice for Snowden. He wanted to go to South America, they trapped him in Russia. Now he has to wave and smile to whatever happens there politically.
where is your retort for the other points of yours that were dismantled above?
It's very clear that you will believe whatever is most convenient for you to believe.
Snowden is an American hero, and the war criminals he exposed faced no repurcussions
There are exactly 0 instances where the information he released got our service members killed, despite what the media tries to suggest. You better believe our Government would be jumping at the chance to show the people how 'whistleblowing BAD'
If reality offends you, you may be living outside of it
He didn't sell anything. After trying to raise internal concerns about his work, he leaked classified information to The Washington Post and The Guardian.
Then the DoJ cancelled his passport due to "espionage" and he got stuck in Russia, where he still lives today.
So how do you propose an ethical person expose corruption to the people of this country when the people in power that he would normally report it to are part of the corruption? The constitutional violations were approved, in secret, all the way up to the President of the United States of America. Or are you of the belief that anything is patriotic & acceptable if you're in charge and you give it a catchy name like The Patriot Act?
You're not supposed to speak up about real things. Just roleplay dumb shit like the alien WAP being talked about in court with zero evidence of course.
AND he only did so after the "proper channel" for whistle blowing, his internal superiors, told him to shut the fuck up.
I feel this always needs to be said. The United States has a lot of slogans and posters about integrity and ethics for a nation that has neither in practice.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/03/07/snowden-i-raised-nsa-concerns-internally-over-10-times-before-going-rogue/
Do as I say, not as I do
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” ― Anatole France
To be fair, it is a bit out of context: https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something
Well that makes more sense than the Obama admin coming up with it
Bout to say, I could have sworn I was hearing that well before Obama was president. That's a Bush admin slogan, isn't it?
I think they had that phrase on WWII propaganda posters as well. More to do with potential espionage of enemy countries, though.
Edit: totally wrong, it was coined on Sept 12, 2001 by New York advertising executive Allen Kay.
Oh ok so I had the source wrong, that's quite an effective ad exec.
It definitely was a major background color to the early 2000s atmosphere.
Thanks for reiterating this and posting a source. Every time I see an article on Snowden year over year, someone brings up the tired old "argument" that because he is now trapped in Russia, that somehow makes everything he did "wrong", and invalidates everything he exposed the government for doing. The media campaign against him was apparently quite effective, and these soundbites are ever ready to jump out of people's mouths without any research or critical thinking.
And of course, the next logical step is to leak gigabytes of secret and sensitive information.
...Leaked to a reputable member of the fourth estate to decide what was safe to report. Do you disagree with the founders of the United States about the importance of the fourth estate's role in keeping leadership honest?
The only other steps short of that would have been to either quit and shut the fuck up or continue participating and shut the fuck up.
Sounds like you just wanted him to shut the fuck up about your freedoms being eroded by the government that's supposed to protect them.
I don't believe willful ignorance is a defensible position, ever.
It very much is, if the offense is egregious. And the NSA spying on everyone and their employees trading nudes the NSA collected very much is egregious. And to make it sound like he just dumped the raw leaks does not make your argument seem more credible.
Or, you know, he could have talked to journalists without such security breach.
The security breach was the NSA letting anyone fiddle with the data. They should be thankful Snowden leaked them instead of a foreign intelligence service listening in for years unnoticed.
Yeah... It honestly just made clear how damn inept everyone involved is and has been for a very long time...
Except it's exactly what David Grusch did, with no proof, and yet we have multiple oversight hearings and amendments to the defense authorization, and he made international news
That is literally what Grusch testified about.
That's basically what he did...
🤣
There was no need to do that with gigs of secret data…
Lol... He gave the egregious "secret data" that Americans fully deserved to know about to a fucking journalist (Glenn Greenwald)
So, I disagree.
Glen Greenwald is not a "journalist" lol
Greenwald shines Putin's boots.
Become Russian with this one simple trick!
You're getting downvoted for stating what Snowden out for what he is -- a Kremlin operative traitor.
He had no other choice. Russia was not his first goal to find refuge in. But germany and other countries did not take him in.
No one wants to take in a criminal. No one, except war criminal Putin, of course.
Because taking in a compromised Russian operative is a bad idea
Snowden is a textbook example of why organizations should not be allowed to police themselves or control the avenues of reporting misconduct.
There should be a memorial to him in DC. Ruined his life to tell the people what their elected officials are doing with all of the power we grant them.
But no, to save face, ego, etc we drove him into the willing arms of Putin to be able to use as a propaganda tool so he wouldn’t be killed for daring to speak truth to power.
Support for prosecuting him did untold damage to my opinion of Obama.
And the hundreds of drone strikes.
Same. Honestly, fuck Obama. He's not as bad as Trump, but he's still a corporate Democrat shill.
Snowden deserved Obamas pardon a lot more than Manning. I get the sense that Manning leaked stuff for the sake of leaking stuff, while Snowden uncovered a vast domestic and unconstitutional espionage program to which the general public was unaware.
NSA being an angry little child with a napkin aside, I believe there was a legal hurdle to Snowden being pardoned: You need to be tried & sentenced before a presidential pardon can be applied, as far as I understood.
Surprisingly, that actually isn't required. Nixon was pardoned without even being indicted.
hmm - interesting. I thought this topic was debated when the orange turd was thinking about pardoning itself preemptively...
That's a different issue since it's not clear whether a president has the power to pardon themself.
yeah, but I thought both aspects were discussed at the time - I must be misremembering
Of course he's not a traitor. He exposed politicians who were actively violating the constitution. Those politicians are the traitors, traitors to American ideals and laws. At the very least, they're criminals.
Meme aside, I'm commenting to show appreciation for the correct use of quotation marks. Grammar nazi stamp of approval.
"Grammar nazi stamp of approval."
This is a sentence fragment.
Touché.
So is that.
“If you see something suspicious “speak up” is correct usage?
https://www.grammar-monster.com/punctuation/quotation_marks_multiple_or_new_paragraphs.html
I think they mean this.
Thanks for the information but jeez that makes me feel uncomfortable for some reason.
It's like the unclosed paren (but correct (craziness).
I've never seen this, but maybe since sentences with a parenthesis in it very rarely get a line break in the middle?
It is rather common in books, where you often see direct speech spanning multiple paragraphs.
Edit: sorry, I misinterpeted/misread the comment. I've never seen the double parentheses thing either
The quotation mark one is common in books yeah, but the parentheses one referred to by the comment you responded to isn’t. I haven’t seen that one either.
This hurts my programmer soul, I'll start escaping quotation marks instead
Being a programmer finally won out over my writing background. For example, I know the rule in the US is to include punctuation inside the quotation marks, but I just can't do it anymore if the punctuation mark is not actually part of the quote. "The British do it right, in my opinion".
So you're telling me "The British do it right,".
As a native English speaker I feel like I get a say in this. This is the worst rule I've seen proposed. Unbalanced quotation marks are confusing as hell.
Yeah what the hell. It's like having unmatched parentheses when coding.
While we're at it, putting punctuation inside quotation marks when it's not actually part of the quote also needs to be fixed. And the whole he/she thing.
WTF, I thought it was wrong. This is weird.
YES! I've seen this formatting a lot in published books but never on the internet.
"Correct use of "quotation marks"
I don't think OP's meme used quotation marks correctly... 👀
Normally if a quote spans multiple paragraphs, you don't close the quote at the end of the paragraph, but you do start the next paragraph with quote marks.
This is just one sentence with three sets of double quotes.
I can't imagine it being grammatically sound to have a sentence span multiple paragraphs though.
Technically not fatal
Yet
Ah, the old HR trap.
I hope one day he will be able to come home a hero and not a criminal.
There’s no chance he’ll be allowed back in the US after, understandably, becoming a piece of the Russian propaganda pie. He’s basically trapped in Russia. On the bright side, it’s a gilded cage where he resides with his family.
Not where I'd want to be right now.
Russia is great, for people useful to Putin.
Just don't stand to close to a window.
Not even an impossible task. We just need a President that actually loves what America professes to aspire to. It's what the Presidential pardon is for.
Any decade now...
Not like that! Do it how we meant to say but couldn't quite bring ourselves to say publicly. The way that protects the military industrial complex and the corporations and the lobbyists and the government officials from any charge of mendacious greed.
My favourite moment of that era was when Obama told us he was just about to drop dime on all the spying and Snowden beat him to it. Dang it Snowden, now I gotta eat shit on live TV. The American state simply cannot be trusted whatsoever.
He used to call me on my cellphone
Was he the secret AT&T room guy?
Unrelated question, but ever since Snowden became a citizen of the Russian Federation, could be be drafted during a round of conscription? Or would they use him for cyberwarfare?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to fight Ukrainians.
his value is anti-west propaganda so I doubt he will fight in any way
And now they're on Russia's payroll
Wasnt a choice for Snowden. He wanted to go to South America, they trapped him in Russia. Now he has to wave and smile to whatever happens there politically.
Snowden could have
been an official whistleblower and avoided prosecution
leaked only to US papers and avoided prosecution
leaked only non-classified information and avoided prosecution
Snowden sold classified info to enemies of the US. He made his bed.
You are so full of shit, it isn’t even funny:
He literally tried to do that and was ignored.
You mean like the American Branch of the Guardian and the Washington Post? Aka the Newspaper that he leaked to?
Leaking unclassified information about a classified program. How do you imagine that?
No, he literally did not.
How about you stop getting your info from Fox News?
Lmao I don't watch Fox News. I just understand reality.
If Grusch can leak unclassified info about classified programs, so could Snowden
This statement is actually more braindead than the takes on Fox.
Lmao ok
where is your retort for the other points of yours that were dismantled above?
It's very clear that you will believe whatever is most convenient for you to believe.
Snowden is an American hero, and the war criminals he exposed faced no repurcussions
There are exactly 0 instances where the information he released got our service members killed, despite what the media tries to suggest. You better believe our Government would be jumping at the chance to show the people how 'whistleblowing BAD'
If reality offends you, you may be living outside of it
He didn't sell anything. After trying to raise internal concerns about his work, he leaked classified information to The Washington Post and The Guardian.
Then the DoJ cancelled his passport due to "espionage" and he got stuck in Russia, where he still lives today.
Yeah like saying Snowden isn't a traitor.
So how do you propose an ethical person expose corruption to the people of this country when the people in power that he would normally report it to are part of the corruption? The constitutional violations were approved, in secret, all the way up to the President of the United States of America. Or are you of the belief that anything is patriotic & acceptable if you're in charge and you give it a catchy name like The Patriot Act?
You literally have an example of this happening right now with David Grusch and possible embezzlement in the DoD
"Wait, no, not like that."
You're not supposed to speak up about real things. Just roleplay dumb shit like the alien WAP being talked about in court with zero evidence of course.
But he heard from a friend?!
The things he leaked were already known in a general sense to anyone that wasn't a teenager at the time.
But the details helped foreign adversaries. Which is why he lives in Russia now.
t. glowie
I think you mean "ignored it for years while he helped build it and then turned coat as soon as the wrong guy got elected"
This is false information. He tried to push out his msg via the internal channels but got ignored hence he had to step up.
You are misinformed. He spent years building these systems under Bush without a peep.
Commits espionage, then runs into the arms of his master, Putin.