Pastor alarmed after Trump-loving congregants deride Jesus' teachings as 'weak'
Evangelical Christian leader Russell Moore revealed this week that many evangelical pastors have become alarmed that their Trump-loving congregants have become so militant that they are even rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ.In an interview with NPR, Moore said that multiple pastors had told h...
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-evangelicals-2663078391/Open linkView original on kbin.social1098
Comments263
Then maybe they should have corrected them when they were just starting out on all the crazy, rather than endorsing the dude that's literally the closest thing this world has seen to the anti-christ.
Yeah this is a very leopard ate my face kind of moment
Pretty sure the closest was Hitler.
Pretty sure while the cult of Hitler was insane… and definitely… more… hitler never actually claimed any pretense to being any sort of Christian-god-sent whatever.
Nazism was a sort of its own thing, and not particularly Christian, where the cult of Trump definitely is.
While Jews were far and away the largest group that suffered in camps and the holocaust…they were
Really, the closest?
considering his cult worships as the 2nd coming... he himself described himself as "the chosen one", parrots reiligious one-liners while leading those who do worship him- and yes, that is the appropriate term- away from the teachings of christ.
He's a bargain bin Mussolini. Unfortunately, nothing he did is particularly new.
Fun fact, there are many antichrists, biblically speaking, not just one.
Yea, it's an archetype, but it's funny how some predictions are oddly specific for such a broad recurrent archetype:
“… a despicable person will arise… a man of contempt… to whom the royal honor has not been rightfully conferred. He will slip in when least expected and will seize the kingdom through flattery and intrigue.” Daniel 11:21
“He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior… He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.” Daniel 8:25, 2 Thess 2:10
“But then the court will convene, and all his power will be taken away.” Daniel 7:26
From these, the Antichrist's description is starting to sound like Hannah Arendt's banality of evil and how that is scarier than fictional supernatural evil with horns and pitchforks.
Probably bc these are descriptions of prior people summarized. Like its all happened before.
Don’t forget holding a bible upside down in front of a church… like hello?
Easy to do when you can’t read, yeahs lay off the guy… (/s, please, trump deserves far more. Continue!)
Trump is capable of reading. I mean he read Mein Kampf. He just loses interest in it if he doesn’t see his name mentioned every x number of words.
Pretty sure that was just the picture book version made for the Hitler youth.
He's just a fascist wannabe dictator and some people want that. It's really nothing new or special
yep there are many like him around the world, and I'd wager to say that most of them are actually potentially more dangerous than Trump because they're smarter and actually have an agenda of their own. What really did the USA in was not the person Trump, but rather that the whole republican apparatus and especially the corporate media went all in with him after it became clear he'd win the primaries. With the 2 party system, that means that basically half of the country was set up to deify him in a way that they haven't really tried with previous republican candidates
Remember, the Antichrist is not just "really evil person". It's "really evil person who convinces a lot of people that he's a good person and a prophet".
The term is open to interpretation, but it certainly doesn't simply refer to non-christians.
Some interpretations view the antichrist as a specific individual or figure who opposes Christ in some hypothetical, end of days type situation, while others see it as a broader symbolic representation of a certain figure or person that represents the complete opposite of Christ's teachings or the spirit of Christianity.
"Anti" can mean "opposite" just as much as it can mean "against".
That is a whole lot of "probably" and "looks like" disclaimers for such an absolute claim.
So Jewish ppl?
At the time, it was more the Romans. It’s only after Rome became Christian that the narrative shifted to blame the Jews for everything.
If you're thinking of the modern pop-culture version of the anti-christ, then no.
If you compare his behaviour to how the bible actually describes the anti-christ, then yes.
According to the bible he is supposed to:
Be a divisive non-politician who comes into power against peoples expectations.
Be overly arrogant with great boastful speeches
Lead many people away from Jesus and cause them to blindly follow himself.
Lead a very powerful military nation
Publically threaten people as a common tactic
Be very focused on winning/conquering
Rise to power through collusion, lies and corruption.
His election into power will by some be seen as a miracle
Will use his power to enrich themselves and their allies
Spread lies and falsehoods as truth, general lies and deception.
It specifically says he will reward his allies with land/property
Become angry and threaten the "King of the south"(Mexico)
Be supported by some of the nations most powerful religious leaders(super churches and such support him)
See themselves as above everyone else
Disregard the needs of the most vulnerable in society
Some will rise up in protest and face violence in return
Some things that are almost too on the nose:
Only see one term
Attempt to stay in power but defeated by the legal system
Use his armed forced to remove people from a church for their own nefarious needs
During their rule there will be large inflation in food cost, while oil remains cheap
There will be a pandemic and mass death during their rule
Supposed to worship the "god of fortresses" (in reference of walls and keeping people out)
Followers will wear a mark on their forehead (maga caps)
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
This is mostly tongue-in-cheek, but it's still pretty damned accurate
The Bible made predictions about oil prices?
People have been pressing olives for a long time.
Yeah, that one caught me off guard too... Pretty sure it doesn't.
The bible has a bunch of different references to oil, as it was used a lamp fuel(and some rituals).
This one refers to Revelation 6:6
From KJ or this one from the NIV
Referring to how the price of food would go up, but oil and alcohol would not.
Pretty disingenuous to suggest that has any relation to fossil fuels and using them in internal combustion engines.
But, then again, that's what Christians excel at: rationalizing their awful beliefs.
That's an interesting read, thank you! Although I would still say most points on this list still apply to many fascist dictators
I'm not sure about the point regarding "one term", surely the bible didn't know about the system of presidential terms? How exactly does it say there? Same about oil, what is the biblical equivalent?
It's all from the Benjamin Corey post I linked in a reply to the comment you're replying to. The BIble is talking about different oil-- either food, or lamp oil. 'One term's is a happy coincidence, the bible says ~3.5 years
So not at all related to fossil oil then
No, just a coincidence. Except that both are used as fuel, I suppose, though fueling very different things
Yes, really.
I was hoping someone would link this.
Man there was this (satirical, but not inaccurate) blog about how trump actually matches many features of the anti-christ, but I can't find it now, only a bunch of blogspam copying it
this is what you're looking for.
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
That’s the one!
Brilliant! Thank you
Change your window width to 760px to get the maximum horizontal readability on this terribly formatted website, or switch to reader mode
Just think about how many of the seven deadly sins (pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth) Trump embodies. Like... fuckin' all of them?
Again, how is that special?
I'm not saying it's "special". Hypocritical, counterintuitive, ironic, sure...
What I'm saying is that Trump represents the very antithesis of what Christianity preaches. He is a very high-profile and public embodiment of their "seven deadly sins". Which, to me at least, is very anti-christ-like. I'm not sure why you need that spelled out...
I mean, if we're being all passive-aggressive I'll also happily point out that the seven deadly sins have nothing to do with the antichrist technically, they are not even mentioned in the bible afaik. So bit of a crappy argument really
I agree, you don't have to look far down the road to see even worse (DeSantis).
Someone mentioned this somewhere else in the thread, but the antichrist isn't just a super-duper evil dude; he's an evil dude with a religious following. He's a guy where people voluntarily worship him. Not because they're forced, not because they're apathetic and just going with the flow, they willingly worship him. Additionally, trump has had pastors claim him to be sent from God, or that he is some kind of savior, which, iirc, is another characteristic of the antichrist. As evil as the others are, I'm pretty sure trump fits the bill better than they do.
I wouldn't be surprised if DeSantis did this, given the opportunity.
Now that definitely sounds like DeSantis.
Put it this way, https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-666-fifth-avenue/
It may be there are worse people but they are more akin to satan
(e.g Hitler was atheist (well not really he believed in the occult but didn't go down religion). Trump claims to be some sort of Jesus figure to religious so hits some.of the "pretends to be Christ" points of.the antichrist(Edit Hitler religious views are very complex but I still. Stand by point he less acted like "Christ" figure than trump)
I'm going to take issue with your simplification and classification of Hitler, and the wider Nazi ideology here because I think this is very important given some of the patterns we see repeating from the early 20th century. There was a lot of nuance to the public and politically expedient viewpoints that Hitler professed regarding religion throughout his life versus his private viewpoints which colored the ideological mechanisms of Nazism.
It is tacitly incorrect to state that Hitler was an occultist, or an atheist by modern convention.
Regarding Occultism: He detested the mysticism, neo-paganism, and occult underpinnings that Himler brought to the party (specifically the SS). Hitler made it very clear that he considered these viewpoints to be sophistry and repugnant to his own view of the world, but he allowed them in so far as he supported Himler as a leader of the party.
Regarding atheism: Hitler, likewise, considered atheism to be an ideological evolution of Jewish Bolshevism that he believed was essentially responsible for the rise of Soviet Communism. It is well documented from close confidants who surrounded Hitler, and wrote about his views contemporaneously that he believed atheism was an ignorant and dangerous return to the animalistic hedonism of humanity.
Why am I bothering to quibble over these distinctions? Well, for one thing because truly dangerous political leaders generally possess the intelligence, as well as tactical forethought to manipulate and twist at the very heart of the tribal labelism that proliferates through the uneducated masses of society. They then warp these convenient in-group / out-group dynamics to fit the needs of their political ambitions. We see this today, although in a much lazier fashion, with the alliance of convenience between the neo-conservative and christian nationalist movements that have proven to be a foundational undergirding to the "Trump Cult" as it were.
We should all understand the complicated historical relationship of religion and politics from the 20th century. Especially regarding the manipulation of those relationships which lead to the rise of authoritarianism on a scale never seen before or since. Lest we go down that same road again, except the next time will invariably be the last time because the power of the technological panopticon we are now capable of creating would enslave humanity or destroy our species.
PS: If you're interested in understanding the complexities of the religious and ideological positions espoused by Hitler throughout his life as well as the Nazi party as a whole this Wikipedia article on the subject is actually really good.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
I'm not surprised. I've heard stories as far back as 2015 or 2016 about people storming out in the middle of their pastor's sermon because the pastor directly quoting Jesus' sermon on the mount was too "woke."
Mark my words: if conservatives can no longer advance their cause under the guise of Christianity, they won't abandon conservatism. They will abandon Jesus.
This is an extremely interesting thought experiment, and one that is not without precedent. I left a comment below about the misrepresented and often repeated claims regarding Hitler's (as well as Nazism more broadly) views on religion, occultism, and atheism.
I bring this up again here because what happened in Germany was essentially the opposite of the proposition you are suggesting. Instead of throwing Jesus out of Christianity, Hitler made a specific and distinct push to remove any perceivedly Jewish teachings from what became German "Positive Christianity". This included the removal of the Old Testament, the Pauline epistles, and the framing of Jesus as a dogmatic Aryan ideologue who opposed the teachings of Jewish mysticism.
The notion that the modern crypto-fascist & christian-nationalist movements might take the opposite approach by throwing out or obfuscating the teachings of Jesus which they perceive as liberal or socialist in nature and therefore counter to the authoritarian hegemony they seem to be advocating for is a fascinating proposition. I also happen to believe you are correct, and that we have been seeing this happen in real time over the last several decades at least.
I am sincerely afraid that the most damaging threads of the 20th century will be repeated again, and I'm not so sure that humanity is as prepared as it should be to fight against that potentiality. The destruction of education in this country, and the tears in the facade of infinite-growth-capitalism have made the United States the perfect hotbed for this kind of ideology to rise again...
Looks at Uyghur camps in China
No country joined WW2 to liberate the Jews. No one is going to fight China for the Uyghurs. These are atrocities that help sell the morality of a war fought for other reasons. Defeating the Nazis was certainly a moral victory and they were a great evil, but that's not why we fought them.
No one is coming to the rescue of the Uyghurs. Enduring sanctions is likely to be the worst consequence China faces.
While not the worst consequence, there's also been a great destruction of culture.
Japan and Korea have been becoming more popular on the world stages, where they're celebrated for anime and pop songs. Meanwhile, for all its money, and all its genuinely rich and interesting history, entering a forum to announce you're Chinese might end up prompting snarky responses like "Oh hey, do they give you your own Uyghur family to treat as slaves?"
Interesting. Same with slavery and the American civil war I guess.
They won't think they're abandoning Jesus. They will start worshipping some different badass with the same name who brings vengeance upon his enemies with swift application of firearms. They'll call that entity Jesus, but it will have no relationship to the Christian concept of Jesus.
Republican Jesus has been a thing for a long time.
Supply side Jesus. A classic.
That link is to something different, but yes, Supply Side Jesus should be required reading for this thread. It's a bit dated, though.
https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2003/09/the-gospel-of-supply-side-jesus.aspx
Well, that's what religious people have always done. They follow a religion until it disagrees with them, then they leave and start a new 'slightly different' branch which agrees with them.
You know, sort of like how Catholicism was founded about 30 years after Jesus' assumed death date, but then 1600 years later, Baptists decided to branch off create their own flavor.
Like that one episode in American Gods.
I suggest you check out the Conservapedia Bible Rewrite project/Conservapedia Bible Project for a good laugh.
They never accepted his teachings in the first place....
You have a point, however, there seems to be a difference in severity. It's like how openly and aggressively racist some of these folks have gotten. Sure, they always probably harbored those feelings, but now they are more brazen about it, and the behavior is getting worse as a result.
They just needed someone in a position of authority to tell them it was okay to be awful.
Jepp. Ever heard the argument from for instance atheists that you don't need the bible to know right from wrong? They are unfortunately incorrect. These guys definitely need some higher power telling them.
I was just talking to my son about this last weekend. We were discussing the merits of organized religion. He said "I don't need the threat of eternal punishment to act morally". I said "you're right, and neither do I, but there seems to be a great many people who do. So although the church is largely an instrument of control, it's a necessity for a great many people". It is going to have a profoundly negative impact on our society when these people are completely unleashed.
I think you missed the point. The threat of eternal punishment is the only thing holding a lot of people in check.
Can we just swap that for enforceable threats of NOW punishment? We have laws. Let's start using them.
You're getting lost in your own wank.
I would rather have people act morally because of empathy and even social pressure, versus “master told me to.”
Granted, if the church and its teachings disappeared today, things may get a bit more rough in the near future. Religion works on some people because they were raised in it and need it to stay normal. But if they weren’t indoctrinated since birth, it would not have such a hold on their morality.
Also granted, I’m sure there are plenty of people who would still act better with it than without it. Just speaking in general terms here.
We're in agreement.
I would also prefer if people just acted out of empathy but I believe some people just can't. Ironically while many claim that autistic can't they are often more empathetic than others.
What I really dislike with this kind of Christians is that they have so much text regarding compassion but they still just care about the parts that can be used to judge others. even though they claim to read the Bible literally. Which of course they don't.
Yeah, I would say that it’s another example of those Christians cherry picking the parts of the Bible that are convenient for what they already believe, but they aren’t even doing that. The majority are just repeating lines they were fed.
Aw, how sweet that you think a negative impact on society from religion is something that will happen in the future.
Problem is that the morality taught by Christianity, and most other large organized religions, is extremely outdated and has spent many hundreds of years being corrupted by those in power to oppress others. I mean these people literally believe that God will punish our entire society if we don't eradicate LGBTQ groups. I actually think these people would be much more tolerant of others if they had never encountered organized religion and just learned to coexist with others organically.
While I partly agree with you, my point was not so much the content of the laws but that some people need an invisible all seeing power to make sure that they're following them.
They have trouble empathising with others unless it also directly affects them. There are for instance a number of republican politics who only supported the LGBTQ after their own child came out as gay or what ever. And that's the best case scenario.
Religion in the US is weird though. You got the extremist kicked out from Europe and you southern state branches where pastors either moved north or stopped talking about equality for all men. What remains is non of the kindness and only cruelty and punishment that some people seem to get off on.
My own take on the morality of the laws in the Bible is that we would be better off if we more looked to the reason for the why of the laws than just reading what the law said. What spoken of in tanakh (or old testament) regarding men having sex for instance isn't about to consenting adults but a question of rape of the penetrated man. Or in an interpretation from a Danish theology, incest of a male relative. Except for the question of rape and incest, it doesn't have any bearing today regarding same sex relationships.
Yup. The jokes made under their breath have turned into heckles from the crowd.
Arguable. The stories have him talk about the right price and your rights with slaves, and as commonly understood "not one jot or tittle" would directly conflict with "let he who..", unless the second is an edict ("hey, you, sinless one, go chuck a rock at them and bludgeon then go death").
Where the bible isn't monstrous, it's at best inconsistent.
Pretty insane interpretation of jesus's teachings, ngl
Super edgy tho
I grew up fundamentalist, and they had abandoned his teachings in the 80’s in service to Emperor Reagan.
I mean, really, when did Christians ever follow Jesus' teachings considering how many people were converted by the sword...
It'll be the ones you don't hear about, for example my grandparents who are some of the kindest, most compassionate people you'd meet. They hosted refugees, consistently voted progressive, and changed church when their previous one started being more anti-LGBT. There's just no headlines in Christians actually acting like Christians.
Because they're actually following the teachings of the Bible especially the notes on the hypocrites. They just do good, they don't talk about doing good in places where people will hear them.
Good on them :)
they need to break out a whip and turn over some tables!
I think they're a bit past those days!
If my kin are anything to go by, youre never too old to kickass and take names. Hell my great grandfather won his first bout against death, lost the second though.
I wasn't alive during the crusades, but I think that would be a pretty good starting place.
I would say when Constantine and Pope Sylvester threw in together
The leopard is still hungry
Christians have ignored the teachings of Jesus from the start. Just one example: You cannot serve God and money. Matthew 6:24. I think Jesus was a communist who would probably also be crucified today by the people who proclaim to be Christians.
Paul derailed the Church right out of the gate. Here's a guy who has had an absurd amount of control over the fate of Christianity who never met Christ, and who advocates principles that directly contradict Christ's own teachings while being very similar to the teaching of the Jewish temple Paul previously held power in as a Pharisee. Paul took Christ's teachings and merged them into a contemptible, incoherent hybrid of Christ's message and the Jewish law-focused faith, brought full circle back into a religious bureaucracy by the Roman Catholics.
Total agreement. His message was revolutionary.
No one hates Jesus and his teachings as fiercely as a Christian. Christians would be the firsts in line to crucify Christ for his hippie, soft ideas again if he were to resurrect, this has been known for centuries.
I have a 20 year old t-shirt that says "If Jesus comes back we'll kill him again" on it in tiny white script. People always thought it was a statement of my intentions but it was always just a comment on society.
Reminds me of the South Park ep Hare Club for Men, when Bill Donahue, of the Catholic League (read: assholes with persecution complex), says to kill the Jews (Jesus was Jewish). Jesus wasn't hardline enough.
That's simply not true. A truthful statement is that these people were never Christians. They flew the Christian flag because it lent them credibility and control. But it has been a long time since we've seen any Christian values from the loudmouths we see in the news claiming to be Christians. Actual Christians aren't the people you see on the news. I know a few and they're great people who do a lot for their communities and the people around them.
This is like the most very basic "No True Scotsman" that you can do.
These people are Christian, whether you like it or not. You don't get to decide that they aren't. All Abrahamic religions and their holy books are full of awful awful stuff. And no, not just the Old Testament.
Now you know how most Muslims feel.
Yea saying they're not Christian is just giving them an excuse.
If you're not at least attempting to follow the teachings of Christ, then you're not a Christian. Just calling yourself something doesn't make you that thing. I can say I'm a Rock Star until I'm blue in the face, that doesn't change the fact that I'm not even musical.
What you're missing is that your rational response doesn't let people feel justified in hating people
You know, like atheists think religion makes you act. Turns out that's a humanity thing and not a religion thing
Not a true Scotman. Read a history book. Christians have been beheading, slaving and murdering people ever since Constantine converted in his death bed. It was never about being a good Christian in the eyes of God. Religion has always been about power.
Shouldn't he be like the false prophet they warn themselves about? I mean, is not that I expected some of those dumbfucks to even know what the bible says, but fuck, the level of idolatry is astounding.
Trump embodies every single characteristic that the Bible ascribes to the antichrist. CPAC even built a golden idol of trump a few years ago.
Here's a fun list of the many ways trump falls under the description of the antichrist.
Hmm, that wasn't fun at all!
Plot twist: if God is real then God is an abusive piece of shit who delightd in our suffering, so God can't be God. God is Satan. Hail Satan. HAIL HIM DAMNIT.
how do they not see that. What would take a literal money exchange booth in the church.
This pastor seems to think so.
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
I am not a Christian, and don't have a dog in this fight.
Well, clearly Jesus is the actual false prophet, because a long-haired dark-skinned Middle Eastern socialist who got executed as a criminal sounds like a LOSER.
Obviously that was Obama since he was black.
Irony is often lost on people whose primary personality trait is cognitive dissonance.
Maybe the origin of their beliefs has less to do with the meanings being sacred texts, and more to do with being walking, breathing, confirmation bias machines.
deleted by creator
"I never thought the leopard would eat MY face." These people got in bed with quite possibly the most godless person on Earth, Trump is very likely one of the first true Atheist Presidents we've ever had. He's probably paid multiple women for sex and abortions, cheated on all of his wives, lies on a constant and regular basis, and is just generally a shitty person on every level. This is the person they hitched their wagon to to get Roe v Wade overturned. I sure as hell hope it blows up in their face.
I think it already is blowing up in their face, and agree fully with your sentiment. While atheists dont depend on religion to define their morals, they get the opportunity to self-define their morals. A narcissistic egotisticial born-with-a-silver-spoon person like Trump is a wolf in sheep's clothing parading as one of them. He decays or corrupts everything he touches, and the GOP and evangelical Christians have been rubbing all up on him for 7 years. Both groups are in crisis these days.
The GOP has no true platform beyond revenge politics, and the churches are bleeding congregation members... people leaving either because they aren't on board the crazy train of their church peers or leave because they've allowed their beliefs and morals to twist out of whack in conflict of scripture.
Not only that, but all of that was well known prior to him winning the election.
They don't care.
it's not that he's athiest - he still firmly believes in a God and a Supreme Being™, it's just that he sees himself in the role…
All that immoral behavior you mentioned reads much more like the behavior of an outspoken conservative Christian rather than an atheist. You know, all the “rules for thee but not for me” type stuff.
It may be true that neither of them really believe deep down, but only one is using it to look good while being shitty.
Just a note... whether he is atheist or follows a religion isn't actually related to his garbage character.
I get it... I know some religious people mistakenly think that morals come from religion. So it's interesting they pick someone who doesn't even put on a show of practicing their religion.
Of course, as the rest of us know, any amount of observation in life will show that there are both decent and despicable people in both religious and non-religious camps.
But, yeah it is painfully ironic that religious people hitched their wagon to that lying, adulterous, greedy, gluttonous, (etc) slime bag.
I like messiahs who weren't crucified.
You helped create these people. You are these people.
They keep saying that Jesus will return. Yet if he ever did they would dismiss him as a "dirty hippie" and cheer for the cops who beat him to death.
Then crucify him. Then glorify him for dying for their sins again.
They’d be too confused by the fact that he isn’t white.
They like the "is Lord" part. The idea of divine royalty and unquestioning loyalty. They aren't so keen on teachings of kindness, introspection, self awareness, caring, mutual respect, humility, poverty, etc.
It's kind of weird to accept someone as your Lord white disobeying all his instructions.
In the 30+ year old words of Bill Hicks:
Oh, hey, it's basically me. There isn't room for "love your neighbor as yourself" in the Republichristian party. I don't feel welcome at church anymore.
You're at the wrong church then. A good one can be hard to find in some areas...
Sounds like you should find a new church then.
The last true Christian was a Middle-Eastern socialist Jew.
Peter?
I think he means The Jesus
Jesus wasn't a Christian.
That's the joke
Santa?
Almost as if they never gave a shit about Jesus's teachings in the first place and only cherry picked a couple of things that fit their existing desires.
Now they're just going mask off.
It doesn't take much. For starters "Greed" is one of the 7 deadly sins...
Separation of church and state was created to protect both the state AND the church. Churches are not supposed to be political organizations for their own good. Dividing into camps along political lines and shouting at each other is what happens out in the world. It's not supposed to happen at church.
Wait, I thought this was their main feature...
Churches should be taxed though. Give unto Caesar and all that.
There's nothing special about churches. The ACLU has the same tax breaks and associated restrictions.
It's why the ACLU is actually 2 different organizations. There's the ACLU and the ACLU Foundation. ACLU is a political lobbying group that is directly involved in political activities and therefore has to pay taxes and donations to it are not tax-deductible. The ACLU Foundation other is a legal services charity that is tax-exempt and donations to it are tax deductible.
Churches simply don't have the direct political arm. If they do, then they should be taxed. I once saw a church lose it's tax exemption when the pastor told the congregation they should vote for Obama.
If churches should be taxed then all non-profit organizations should, and you therefore shouldn't be able to make any kind of tax-deductible donations.
That is acceptable to me. I have run two 501(c)3 entities, and guess what, we got audited every year and had to pay taxes if we turned a profit.
Also since those personal donations are just used by the rich to not pay their fair share, close the loopholes.
Churches literally don't have profits. There are no shareholders or anything. There are employees, but pretty much all non-profits have staff, and paying staff (who still have to pay income tax) isn't "profit."
The only issue I have with auditing them is that the vast majority of small churches that are struggling to keep the doors open literally can't afford an audit, and the big, corrupt churches enriching corrupt assholes are still technically non-profit and won't be hurt.
Looks like these "churches" are in desperate need of salvation. If only they knew someone who could provide that...
Uh, is it Trump? It is, right?
Bunch of brainwashers upset that the people they brainwashed are getting brainwashed by someone else.
The golden calf strikes again
Would be interesting to see what reaction one would get to "Trump is Lord" posters.
They built a literal golden idol of trump.
@Anticorp @HurlingDurling
Ofc they did.
I just see a golden turd statue
They wouldn't get that reference.
I find it absurd that evangelicals support Trump so hard. A man who is quite literally the exact opposite of what they are asked to be in scripture. He throws them a couple of pieces of red meat and they dive on it. How sad.
Christianity was never about following scripture, it's always been about using scripture to maintain power over others. If a personis going to put christians in that position of power, they're going to follow that person, simple as that.
Authoritarians don't vote for other authoritarians, they vote for charismatic strongmen who don't share their political beliefs. It's literally crazy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarian_personality
"Charismatic"
Uses two tiny hands to feebly bring a bottle of water to his mouth while blabbering incoherently. Such charisma!
Oh. What a shock. Look. I'm surprised. See:
😐
There you have it. They'll turn away from Jesus before they turn away from Trump.
There's something in the Bible about that, if I remember correctly... ahh here it is - 1 John 4:3:
Who am I to argue with one of the 12 disciples?
Disciples of Trump. That's who would.
I told someone awhile back that in my opinion a lot of the people in positions of influence don’t really understand or appreciate the danger of playing with the type of fire supporting or indulging the ideas that Trump represents brings with it.
It is not as big a leap to go from supporting prosecuting women for having an abortion to save their lives to getting the idea that Governor Abbott has a weak bloodline, due to being in a wheelchair, and should be removed so he is not a drain on the state resources better used for the betterment of the strong as those supporters seem to think.
Essentially they severely overestimate the control they wield over the leopard that will eventually eat their face.
How the hell did I never know Greg Abbott uses a wheelchair
Kind of makes his support for such hard right policies seem even more tone deaf doesn’t it? He is literally supporting something that it is not hard to see will come for him, and those like him.
No, it makes perfect sense. It’s along the lines of Clarence Thomas siding with getting rid of Affirmative Action even though he was a recipient of it. It makes perfect sense once you remember conservatives think they are special, and live by “Fuck you, I got mine.” They got theirs, and they do not at all care that people coming after them can’t get the leg-up they got.
"They" created a monster and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
And the chickens are flying around the monster, swooping and diving and pecking, and they created a monster but they didn't pay the extra $4.95 for the commemorative safety goggles, a decision they'll truly regret when they realize that the monster isn't a monster at all, it's a mirror they're thenmonster!s..... No the monster was behind the mirror but it's a leopard and it's eating their faces.
Christianity has always been a very comfy place for the worst people.
I'd just like to sit in on the closed door leadership meetings where they admit they think Paul masterfully hijacked the gospels and grew Christianity into a tool for oppression. Then watch as they divise ways to fuck over their own congregations.
this has led him to conclude that American evangelical Christianity is now in crisis.
Just now you realized it just now.
Better late than never I guess.
To the modern right, Jesus was a beta cuck socialist. Healing the sick?? Loving thy neighbor?? Sounds like some LIBERAL BULLSHIT 😤 (my wife left me)
I want that on a t-shirt. ‘Jesus was a beta cuck socialist’.
My grandmother was an amazing woman who devotes her life helping others. She was a nurse who also volunteered at old folks homes in her free time, and she donated to many good causes. She loved the teaching of Jesus. Her dad was a WWII vet, and she cared deeply about treating others with love and charity.
She passed away over a decade ago, and while I still don't like the idea that she's gone, I'm happy that she never had to see this all of this happening. She would have been absolutely crushed.
Similar story with many of my family members, except it ends with them turning into hateful monsters in support of Trump.
It's horrifying to watch a loved one embrace fascism.
Sadly her being crushed might be the best case scenario. Imagine how crushed YOU would be if the propaganda weaseled its way to turning her into a trumper.
I don’t mean to disrespect her memory though. Somebody that good who actually gives of themselves rather than just hanging up crosses and American flags, would probably be one of the millions who did not buy all the recent right wing crap.
No disrespect taken. I'm sure she would agree if she could. Doing what people have been doing would have went against her core morals
This is a perfect example of:
![email protected]
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Have they ever really liked Jesus?
Most of the Magats were always terrible people who never once lived like Jesus. Now they actually have someone's name to say who they model their lives after
I like the ones that don’t get crucified.
They aren't ditching religion, they're making their own with a new idol. And I'm guessing many of them don't even realize what they're doing - they probably still think of themselves as Christians. This is the power of Trump's grifting.
This is how many new religions get going ironically. The key is that right now it's a cult. It has to get out of cult status by opening up and appealing to the masses. You can see that Scientology has that problem, it's grown but it's not open to everyone and it still acts like a cult. It'll be an ~~interesting ~~ terrifying hundred years if it continues.....
Trump is their messiah now.
Literally too. I’ve seen Facebook posts from an evangelical ex girlfriend of vertical lens flares on Tump saying that he’s gods chosen one and it’s liked by a bunch of other evangelicals. They really do think he’s chosen by god.
There used to be a subreddit about "Prayers to Trump" where people.would pray to him via Twitter for things.
If Trump came out and said I am Jesus his supporters would all be we know.
They're just mad because Trump is horning in on their racket.
I... hm. I don't know what to say here, except I swear this is a case where the onion has literally written an article about this exact thing occurring. The onion has gone from being believable, to being prophetic. Amazing.
"The Onion’s journalists have garnered a sterling reputation for accurately forecasting future events. One such coup was The Onion’s scoop revealing that a former president kept nuclear secrets strewn around his beach home’s basement three years before it even happened. footnote 2"
March 2003
They were always gonna come for the priests and pastors next, the very second they step off the playbook.
I have always been surprised that the Catholic Bishops have been so willing to align, politically, with the evangelicals on this issue. They haven't historically gotten along well. And the evangelicals were agnostic about abortion, until they realized all the money they could raise by embracing the bans.
If the end-game for this is turning the country (or even the red states) into a theocracy, Catholics are going to find themselves excluded again. Some evangelicals don't even think they count as Christian. And nobody else is going to have sympathy for them, when the ruling class imposes their belief systems on Catholics, because it's exactly what the Catholic Bishops have been doing to other groups through their support of extreme abortion bans.
The chatolic diaconese in the US is as far as I've heard extremists and the Vatican seems to have trouble reining them in.
I hope so. Can they hate on people for something they chose for once? Damn
Nah there will always be plenty of bigoted pastors, churches, and congregations for these people.
This may cause (another) split amongst Christians, but there's no way they give up religion entirely. It's far too useful to them as a tool of control and indoctrination.
Watch it split into Trumpanalty
There was actually a study that compared Donald Trump to the biblical Antichrist and the similarities were startling. One of the ones that really fucked with me was how it said that when he shows up, the antichrist, the rivers will be joined to the Lakes, Mar-A-Lago literally means River to Lake.
Imagine you are an ancient prophet writing about the end times, and you go to describe the actual damn antichrist, and the best you can come up with is a translation of what the antichrist's property name meant with zero context lmao.
There were actually several others but that was the one that seen the most eyebrow raising because it was a case of "What are the odds?"
Not that bad really. If you throw a bunch of things at the wall some of them will inevitably stick
Still it kept stacking up, I wish I had access to the study, I mean I used to but that was years ago I'm not sure I have the URL anymore.
It translates to "Sea-to-Lake"
If the biblical Antichrist was Trump then it would be pretty disappointing. He's a caricature at best.
Where were they the last 8 years?
The leopards are coming from inside the house!
Pick and choose!
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
John 8:44 You are of your father, the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Matthew 24:1-51 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray….
Luke 21:8 And he said, “See that you are not led astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Romans 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
This would only work if they read the Bible.
They’re too busy thumping it to actually read it.
You certainly can’t do both.
That's a pretty unfair requirement. First they have to learn to read and then they have to read the Bible too!
This is /leopardatemyface material.
No, the Republican party co-opted evangelicals to win votes. Abortion wasn't a major issue for evals until conservatives started pumping it in the 70s (I think that's the timeline?). Both are abhorrent, but we should be accurate about who tantalized who. Now, evals are in control of the Repubs.
You’re right, here is a good article that talks about it: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133
ok who here is actually surprised by this.
Not at all, but even if they were already rejecting their religion’s teachings and following their political bullshit in every practical sense, it’s still a bit sobering to know that when they actually read their Bible (or have it read to them) they see the central peace & forgiveness & sacrifice guy as a liberal talking-point “other.”
All those “snakes in the grass”
Supply side Jesus
.
"No, no, you're supposed to show you believe they're weak in what you do, but claim you believe otherwise! Do you even cognitive dissonance, bro?"
They are building a new religion around trump by co-opting the existing religious infrastructure. This could split the Church again.
If it didn't have such scary societal impacts it would actually be fun watching them destroy each other. Unfortunately, their war is going to take out a lot of marginalized groups.
Your 2000 year old cult that you say if full of love and forgiveness but has generally been used to stir hatred, abuse kids, and hoard incalculable amounts of money has been replaced with a new up-and-coming cult that skips the obligation to forgive and replaces it with hatred and retribution and even more grift. Congratulations.
You're Christian, right? You're supposed to follow the teachings of Christ! It's literally in the name!
Christ means “messiah/anointed one” these people are following, in their eyes, the new one and he ain’t called Jesus. Seriously these fucking people are literally worshipping mr Orange.
"all my patriot friends know christianity is about burning crosses, duh!"
Doubt. I doubt these stories are being reported to him. He has been a Cassandra for years to the point that he lost his job and now he presents a bunch of anecdotal stories that can't be verified.
Sure Christianity hasn't exactly needed Christ since the beginning but the specific claims in this article I do not believe.
That doesn’t sound very unbelievable to me. It’s not a direct quote and it very much sounds like the sentiment that I hear from evangelicals that I’m acquainted with.
Even if it happened it is hearsay twice removed with someone with a motivation to lie.
Where did it happen? What church? Who said it?
Asking a lot out of the quality journalists at rawstory.com
Back in 1996 a psychopath killed an innocent old woman with a bomb. Because he claimed to be 'anti-abortion' he was protected by various 'Christian' groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph
I am only addressing one particular claim.
Well now that’s just shocking…
So Nazis now call trump their Führer?
There going to start cutting pages out and replace them with the teachings of lord trump
i don't know, i felt like they could have fit a few more ads on that page
Like that time one particular red state decided to ban the Bible?
Do you ever think how messed up it is people wear crosses? It really is wearing the Iron Age equivalent of a swastika. It’s almost as if they are wearing the exact opposite symbol of Jesus while actively subverting his message. Hmmmmm
Is it not as a reminder of Jesus' sacrifice rather than celebration of how he died?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
If I was tortured to death for some shit i didn't do, the last thing I'd want to see when I resurrect is people claiming to love me with a little version of the torture device that killed me around their necks.
Yes, well, you aren't Jesus are you? 🤨
I'll ask dad.
A bunch of years ago I was at my brother in laws bachelor party. It was mid summer along a river so we were drinking and enjoying the weather and a bonfire. One dude had this huge cross tattooed on his back, he was BiL's coworker friend and I had never met him before. He was saying some pretty awful shit and then started to get into racist shit against Mexicans. I can't remember exactly what I said but it was basically "you say these things while showing off that tattoo? Did you get it because you thought it looked cool or do you even know what the cross means?" My BiL asked me to drop it but its always reminded me of how much some of these people are complete idiots and maybe they are trying to be better but wrapping yourself in these symbols and failing to even meet a baseline of understanding is just so disgusting to me. A thousand years ago, I am sure one of us would have tried to kill each other over that moment.
Weird thing is that it started as a symbol. Believers carrying a cross, albeit a small symbolic one, was a sign of sympathy and emulation with the sacrifice Christ did, one of which was carrying his own cross, in order to save mankind from sin. But of course it was distorted and fetishized to the point of ridicule. Christians aren't exactly the most well versed on the beliefs of their own cult.
This is basically the premise to a Ricky Gervais bit.
Trump is the new messiah.
My blooded axe is ready.
But... they said all the things about violence and death were just jokes?
That's because they were never His.
I think anyone who believes Trump is going to be good for Chirstianity in America should take note of this.
Lol
Need from from religion, not of religion.
People don't get that freedom from religion means that me, as an atheist, am protected from forced participation in your religious activities. That you are not allowed to use the government to compel or punish me for not participating, but that you can still participate in your religious activities.
Anyone downvoting that concept in disagreement is saying that they want to force their neighbors to be under the rule of religion.
Freedom from religion does not mean that you don't get to practice. It's that you don't get to force me to live under religious rules.
I am saying we should force people not to believe in magic skymen. I am saying that we should not allow the practice of religious activity. Such activity is harmful and has no place in our world. It's hate speech and should be stopped.
I'm not sure you'll have too many people on that side. For one it's definitely not hate speech, especially if you consider other religions. Someone meditating practicing some random eastern religion/spirituaity isn't hurting anyone and isn't trying to convert people. They aren't spewing any form of hatred. I'm behind putting pressure on hate speech for sure, but to say all religious activity is hateful isn't really accurate.
People should have the personal freedom to practice their religion in "private," but as the saying goes "the freedom to swing your fist around ends at my face." (Something like that lol) so once your religion demands that I change and compels you to force me, that's when the religion is dangerous and should be stopped.
I mean, do not make yourself an idol and all that. Politicians are usually satanist. What else is new?
There is nothing wrong with Satanism. She was the first rebel to defy her master. A true hero 🥲