I absolutely love Scarpa. They make the only footwear that really, really, fits my weird feet off the shelf. I just wish they made ski boots for the sane.
The last time I needed to get a jacket, I did some Internet searches and asked in three different stores, one name kept popping up every single time: Vaude seems to take this whole sustainability thing quite serious, manufactures part of their collection in Germany and guarantees fair conditions for work they outsourced.
Decathlon is involved with child and possibly slave labor through it's Asian suppliers, also the company still operates in Russia under a barely disguised name.
Here's a directory of backpacking/hiking/outdoors vendors that I have bookmarked and have used a few times.
You can filter results by country( to exclude US) but also check out the cottage industry filter. Those are the little guys who are going to be hurting the most and they make the niche and better quality gear.
Haix shoes are made in Serbia, iirc. I'm wearing nothing else since years. Once had a problem with the lace holders on a pair, they told me to send them back and actually repaired them. I'm kinda convinced.
Some FjƤllrƤven stuff is nice, but the kƄnken backpacks that are so popular are overpriced garbage. Pretty much any other serious brand offers better features for a lower price.
They did seem very well marketed for a very basic design of backpack. There was a camp supply store on Rozengracht near my family's place that had a full window display of the backpack's in a rainbow array of colours. Thinking back on it, it did feel a bit like the Stanley cup saga USA saw more recently. Seeing so many of them around town and that IIRC they were still around 100euros it seemed more of a fashion item. As a semi-tourist I thought I should get one as a practical keepsake of my trip but in the end I felt happier with my reusable Jumbo and HJ shopping bags.
Don't get anything made of GoreTex as that is produced by American company W. L. Gore & Associates.
FjellrƤven has decent cotton products that lasts.
Personally I prefer Norwegian brand Bergans.
You also have HƤrkila (finish) and KlƤttermusen (Swedish) last one primally focuses on light weight climbing gear
They have a pretty substantial marketing budget to make people believe that their product is better but once the patent expires then that's all you have to rely on, brand recognition.
I was surprised by this when I first learned it back in the day, perception make me think it was Japanese (paired with the fact their sizes tend to run small).
I used to love the quality of their t-shirts and jackets; but have struggled to find anything that appealed to me from them over the last few years..
..sad reading their Wikipedia page to see theyāre seriously struggling financially, and this one quote really felt like a kick in the ānads: āA 2023 Observer article referenced critics suggesting that Superdry was a ādadā brand "beyond redemptionā.
Sounds like bad corporate decisions more than anything. Lacoste and Ralph Lauren thrived as the epitome of dad brands for decades until they realized they were cool among drug dealers and pivoted to the related aesthetics with shirts that are 80% logos and shit
No doubt bad corporate decisions played a significant role in their misfortunes.
Unlike Lacoste (tennis) and Ralph Lauren (polo) though, Superdry never had that āold moneyā white people sports appeal, which is what made them somewhat successful as a ādad brandā.
So while itās not impossible for them to dig themselves out of the hole they are currently in, I think itāll be more of an uphill struggle overall.
They are owned by a Finnish company now. Same owner as Salomon.
That Finnish company is owned by a Chinese company. So it doesn't really matter. I try to avoid companies that outsource their production to Asia anyway. Doesn't matter if their millionaire owner live in Europe.
Mammut is fairly common in shops catering to non-tourists. Some of the American brands listed (Mountain Hardware and Columbia) are not brands people entrust their lives to.
SOURCE: I live in Wyoming. Only tourists wear Columbia.
PS: My wife should be sponsored by Rab. It's all she wears in the winter.
While I sometimes buy some sport equipment here and while they have some very accessible products, you can get much better quality for a bit more expensive. Worth saving money for a month more but have really good hiking equipment (or whatever you are looking for).
Also, I worked for them a few years ago and their policies were very questionable. E.g. sometimes they were throwing away some products but always smashed them (like, with a hammer) so "it cannot be used if anyone finds it".
Raw textile or clothes are fine, I agree. I've seen a lot of issues in anything that implies moving parts or frequent assembling: bicycles, tents, rollers, etc. Nothing extremely bad but, as I said, I preferred to pay a bit more to get better equipment on my bikes elsewhere.
A bit more details on that "throwing away" part: there are often people who come to the workshop and ask to upgrade their equipment. They want to get a new set of tyres/inner tubes before a new bike season, set up new handles, change wrist watch batteries, etc. We were asked to always puncture old tyres, cut handles in half, etc. The watches case was infuriating to me: battery replacement was 5ā¬, the same amount as a new basic watch. We were asked to just offer people new watches and throw away old ones so no one could retrieve it from trash and use it later. I never did anything of those and resigned shortly.
Might not be as high quality as the big brands, but Decathlon has one of the best entry level models of bikes and rollerskates I have ever seen in europe. Since cycling can be an extremely expensive hobby (entry level starts at 1500-2000 eur at some manufacturers) In my opinion they are perfect starting point for someone, who wants to get into cycling without breaking the bank. The Triban road bike range is a great example (RC120 or 500 for example). I have mutiple friends buying from them and are very happy with their purchases.
Not as fancy components as the expensive alternatives, but great quality frames, good starting point for upgrades, free/cheap initial setup and good after sales support in my experience.
Also where I live they have nice competetive prices for tools and spare parts as well.
Agreed, it's much better to ditch "European" brands like Salomon and Arc'teryx which fall under Amer Sports which is owned (besides being 45% Chinese) in part by billionaire/premium asshat Chip Wilson:
In his book titled Little Black Stretchy Pants, Wilson wrote that he is not necessarily opposed to child labour, as "working young is excellent training for life.
In October 2024, a sign went up at Wilson's home in British Columbia, which is the most expensive home in the province. The sign criticized British Columbia premier David Eby, reading "Eby will tell you the Conservatives are 'Far right' but neglects saying that the NDP is 'Communist.'"
In early 2024, Wilson expressed concern over Lululemon's diversity and inclusion policy saying in a Forbes interview: "theyāre trying to become like the Gap, everything to everybody." He also criticized an advertisement made by the company featuring plus-sized women models, whom he said looked "unhealthy," "sickly" and "not inspirational." These statements were seen as offensive, with Time reporting them to be "fat-phobic". Lululemon was quick to distance themselves from Wilson's comments, saying, "Chip Wilson does not speak for Lululemon, and his comments do not reflect our company views or beliefs."
Buying ethically is not as easy as avoiding most American brands. Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper.
It definitely isn't easy indeed. I've found a good European brand that focuses on repairability for my shoes (Think! Shoes), but most of my clothes I buy second hand.
I thought the north face was a niche podcast group when I first saw the logo (I live outside of USA and EU) and was REALLY disappointed when I learned it's just the same thing as Gucci or something
North Face used to have good products, then got big and especially during COVID when a lot of middle class took up outdoor activities during travel restrictions it went the way of patagucci
Jesus 10000,- for a 3 person tent? Bit rich for my blood. I can recommend the one i linked to. It weighs very little and has served us well on several camping holidays in Denmark, Hordaland and Sogn og Fjordane. Equally good for wild camping as campsites and easily put up by one person. There's also enough room in the bag to just stuff it in if you're in a rush.
Idk about their new stuff but I can say my dad's 30+ years old mammut jacket is absolutely unkillable. Really well made with some kevlar pads on the shoulders, elbows etc. It did lose some insulation over time though
84 replies
love of fuck, stop using this meme template with canadian douchebag/pedo
As a Canadian, I agree.
So many different alternatives
Petzl is missing, they are French.
To be fair, Patagonia is more ethical than some of the EU ones, all things considered.
(Although itās absolutely ridiculously expensive)
Its not any more expensive than some of the European stuff haha
Scarpa is another good euro outdoor equipment brand
I absolutely love Scarpa. They make the only footwear that really, really, fits my weird feet off the shelf. I just wish they made ski boots for the sane.
The last time I needed to get a jacket, I did some Internet searches and asked in three different stores, one name kept popping up every single time: Vaude seems to take this whole sustainability thing quite serious, manufactures part of their collection in Germany and guarantees fair conditions for work they outsourced.
What's with Vaude?
Decathlon is French I think?
Decathlon is involved with child and possibly slave labor through it's Asian suppliers, also the company still operates in Russia under a barely disguised name.
Yes but a lot of their stuff is made under poor and toxic circumstances by people who get paid very little. Not the best imho
Yup
Correct. I can recommend it, their home brands are cheap, and the quality is generally good.
Drake is a rapist fuck. Use another template.
Here's a directory of backpacking/hiking/outdoors vendors that I have bookmarked and have used a few times.
You can filter results by country( to exclude US) but also check out the cottage industry filter. Those are the little guys who are going to be hurting the most and they make the niche and better quality gear.
A notable omission from that list is Montane. I think theyāre UK based?
made in china all over the place
Or Taiwan.
Haix shoes are made in Serbia, iirc. I'm wearing nothing else since years. Once had a problem with the lace holders on a pair, they told me to send them back and actually repaired them. I'm kinda convinced.
It seemed like every second person in Amsterdam had a fjall raven pack when I was there.
That's true for most of Netherlands, really.
Also common at hipster/expensive coffee shops in the US.
We bought our bag on a visit to NYC 17-18 years ago, now theyāre everywhere. Itās is still working fine though, just little dirty
Some FjƤllrƤven stuff is nice, but the kƄnken backpacks that are so popular are overpriced garbage. Pretty much any other serious brand offers better features for a lower price.
They did seem very well marketed for a very basic design of backpack. There was a camp supply store on Rozengracht near my family's place that had a full window display of the backpack's in a rainbow array of colours. Thinking back on it, it did feel a bit like the Stanley cup saga USA saw more recently. Seeing so many of them around town and that IIRC they were still around 100euros it seemed more of a fashion item. As a semi-tourist I thought I should get one as a practical keepsake of my trip but in the end I felt happier with my reusable Jumbo and HJ shopping bags.
Don't get anything made of GoreTex as that is produced by American company W. L. Gore & Associates. FjellrƤven has decent cotton products that lasts. Personally I prefer Norwegian brand Bergans. You also have HƤrkila (finish) and KlƤttermusen (Swedish) last one primally focuses on light weight climbing gear
Donāt get GoreTex because itās using PFAS chemicals which are harmful to the nature weāre out there to enjoy.
Don't get goretex for the simple reason that the patent has expired anyway so any company can make the exact same product under another name anyway.
Now that is interesting to know!
I was just reading a review of jackets where the praise the goretex brand. Though I guess there's new technology from gotetex
They have a pretty substantial marketing budget to make people believe that their product is better but once the patent expires then that's all you have to rely on, brand recognition.
Vibram is also in the list (IT), and it makes rubber soles (or shoes) that are used by many other brands. I love Garmont for hiking shoes.
Tenaya is a Spanish company that makes some of the most comfortable climbing shoes I have tried.
Not a recommendation, but just for completeness sake: Supedry Japan is British!
I was surprised by this when I first learned it back in the day, perception make me think it was Japanese (paired with the fact their sizes tend to run small).
I used to love the quality of their t-shirts and jackets; but have struggled to find anything that appealed to me from them over the last few years..
..sad reading their Wikipedia page to see theyāre seriously struggling financially, and this one quote really felt like a kick in the ānads: āA 2023 Observer article referenced critics suggesting that Superdry was a ādadā brand "beyond redemptionā.
Sounds like bad corporate decisions more than anything. Lacoste and Ralph Lauren thrived as the epitome of dad brands for decades until they realized they were cool among drug dealers and pivoted to the related aesthetics with shirts that are 80% logos and shit
No doubt bad corporate decisions played a significant role in their misfortunes.
Unlike Lacoste (tennis) and Ralph Lauren (polo) though, Superdry never had that āold moneyā white people sports appeal, which is what made them somewhat successful as a ādad brandā.
So while itās not impossible for them to dig themselves out of the hole they are currently in, I think itāll be more of an uphill struggle overall.
So it's not Instagram-cool anymore, gotcha
/jIsnt Arc'teryx Canadian?
Would explain the Canadian flag in the picture over their name.
They are owned by a Finnish company now. Same owner as Salomon.
That Finnish company is owned by a Chinese company. So it doesn't really matter. I try to avoid companies that outsource their production to Asia anyway. Doesn't matter if their millionaire owner live in Europe.
Mammut is top notch. I love their gear. I never see them in the US.
Mammut is fairly common in shops catering to non-tourists. Some of the American brands listed (Mountain Hardware and Columbia) are not brands people entrust their lives to.
SOURCE: I live in Wyoming. Only tourists wear Columbia.
PS: My wife should be sponsored by Rab. It's all she wears in the winter.
I'm switching a lot to mammut. Their clothes are like nothing i have ever worn before. Their ultralight clothing line is like wearing nothing.
Using the same trekking boots from salewa for years, still in very good shape.
Yeah their stuff is pretty good in my experience as well. I have an external shell for at least 8 years, still looking new.
Polish 4F!
oa
While I sometimes buy some sport equipment here and while they have some very accessible products, you can get much better quality for a bit more expensive. Worth saving money for a month more but have really good hiking equipment (or whatever you are looking for).
Also, I worked for them a few years ago and their policies were very questionable. E.g. sometimes they were throwing away some products but always smashed them (like, with a hammer) so "it cannot be used if anyone finds it".
aoa
It was Decathlon France back in 2015. Well, it's maybe more than "few years", things may have changed now
aoa
aoaoa
Raw textile or clothes are fine, I agree. I've seen a lot of issues in anything that implies moving parts or frequent assembling: bicycles, tents, rollers, etc. Nothing extremely bad but, as I said, I preferred to pay a bit more to get better equipment on my bikes elsewhere.
A bit more details on that "throwing away" part: there are often people who come to the workshop and ask to upgrade their equipment. They want to get a new set of tyres/inner tubes before a new bike season, set up new handles, change wrist watch batteries, etc. We were asked to always puncture old tyres, cut handles in half, etc. The watches case was infuriating to me: battery replacement was 5ā¬, the same amount as a new basic watch. We were asked to just offer people new watches and throw away old ones so no one could retrieve it from trash and use it later. I never did anything of those and resigned shortly.
Might not be as high quality as the big brands, but Decathlon has one of the best entry level models of bikes and rollerskates I have ever seen in europe. Since cycling can be an extremely expensive hobby (entry level starts at 1500-2000 eur at some manufacturers) In my opinion they are perfect starting point for someone, who wants to get into cycling without breaking the bank. The Triban road bike range is a great example (RC120 or 500 for example). I have mutiple friends buying from them and are very happy with their purchases.
Not as fancy components as the expensive alternatives, but great quality frames, good starting point for upgrades, free/cheap initial setup and good after sales support in my experience.
Also where I live they have nice competetive prices for tools and spare parts as well.
oaoaeo
= Aldi Sports!
aoao
I see ads for FjallRaven from time to time and usually I get skeptical of products in ads. Has anyone here used their products?
Very good gear and they donāt use chemicals harmful for the environment (such as Gore-Tex / PFAS).
Yes, It's basically the foundation of outdoor gear in Sweden / Norway.
Very popular and durable
Yeah, awesome durable gear
Silly me ... always thougth Patagonia was from Argentina .... but its based in Ventura, California.
I get buying European, but ditching a responsible brand like Patagonia seems misguided.
If there's anything like an ethical brand, I'm pretty sure it's them.
Agreed, it's much better to ditch "European" brands like Salomon and Arc'teryx which fall under Amer Sports which is owned (besides being 45% Chinese) in part by billionaire/premium asshat Chip Wilson:
Buying ethically is not as easy as avoiding most American brands. Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper.
It definitely isn't easy indeed. I've found a good European brand that focuses on repairability for my shoes (Think! Shoes), but most of my clothes I buy second hand.
For hiking boots, I cannot recommend Hanwag enough. I've had their Alaska model for years and I'm very happy with them.
Good that you didn't include Jack Wolfskin. Had a few things, really shitty quality.
I thought the north face was a niche podcast group when I first saw the logo (I live outside of USA and EU) and was REALLY disappointed when I learned it's just the same thing as Gucci or something
North Face used to have good products, then got big and especially during COVID when a lot of middle class took up outdoor activities during travel restrictions it went the way of patagucci
Husky is missing on that list
I got a few Rab down jackets. When something damaged them I could send them over and for 20-30 euro including shipping back&forth they fixed them!
I really like this instead of buying a new one.
Are there other brands who do the same I wonder?
Haix did for my shoes.
Patagonia does. But it is American.
What happened to Trangia? I never see them anymore, its all gas stoves now in outdoor shops in the UK.
I normally use a kelly kettle, but those are quite large.
Orthovox is missing as well. They are German.
I can only recommend La Sportiva hiking, trekking and mountains shoes. Great quality.
My Swedish Didriksons jacket is still holding strong since I bought it in 2016
My kids Didriksons winter suit lasted two long seasons (6 months of snow) of constant abuse until she grew out of it.
Also if you're in the market for a new tent, Bergans makes a decent one
As a Norwegian, it hurts to say this but Hilleberg also make excellent tents.
Pricey buy you buy once and cry once.
Jesus 10000,- for a 3 person tent? Bit rich for my blood. I can recommend the one i linked to. It weighs very little and has served us well on several camping holidays in Denmark, Hordaland and Sogn og Fjordane. Equally good for wild camping as campsites and easily put up by one person. There's also enough room in the bag to just stuff it in if you're in a rush.
Idk about their new stuff but I can say my dad's 30+ years old mammut jacket is absolutely unkillable. Really well made with some kevlar pads on the shoulders, elbows etc. It did lose some insulation over time though
Although quite expensive, I like Jack Wolfskin. Or how I prefer to call it Jacque Peaudeloup.
Just bought the oldest kid their first sleeping bag: From Nordisk rather than Marmot.
Also, Huppa is Estonian and makes good jackets.