Trump thinks he humiliated Zelensky. He really humiliated the United States
Summary
Trump and Zelenskyy's confrontational Oval Office meeting advanced "mob boss foreign policy" serving Russian interests.
Trump and Vance bullied Zelenskyy when he refused their "extortionate" minerals deal or to thank them despite Trump's stated intent to reduce support for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy effectively countered their claims by noting Russia's 2014 invasion and correcting historical inaccuracies, which angered the Americans.
This represents the first openly “anti-US, anti-Western, anti-democracy foreign policy in American history.” Russians embraced it, and Putin ally and former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev celebrated the exchange.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-thinks-he-humiliated-zelensky-he-really-humiliated-the-united-states/Open linkView original on lemmy.world1478
Comments247
Most embarrassed I've been to call myself an american. And I'm a veteran.
Absolutely disgusting.
I'm so angry and embarrassed. What a total shit show.
Since 2015 ish I started unfollowing both left and right side friends because of political talk from people on my friends list on Facebook. I really have pruned it to be only people that post stuff they're doing. Same for people that only forward stuff. (News or whatever).
I broke down and posted about yesterday on my feed with a link to a YouTube video of the press conference. Expressing how utterly disgusted I was.
It's a minor thing but it should make it very clear how I feel and the line we crossed with that display.
Seems like you did an unnecessary pruning then. You just weren't angry yet.
No I was angry but wanted a clean online space that I was kinda stuck on due to remote family...
Edit: I am more angry now so you're not technically wrong
I have followed a lot. I’m passionate too. However, this. This was just too much. It’s upsetting and disgusting and embarrassing for us. I really wish Obama and Biden and Clinton and everyone would be more fucking vocal. They do it for silent respect? There is nothing respectful about anything Trump has done. We need real leaders.
I was pretty embarrassed when he was elected the first time, then really embarrassed when he was elected the second time too, but yeah, this is a new low.
Embarrassed? I went into a deep depression and could barely get out of bed, the second time.
Sorry to hear, that’s terrible and understandable. The country is definitely in a bad place right now and hopefully the safeguards that haven’t already been dismantled will hold and he can’t do too much damage.
I kind of did too. But then I realized there's still a chance to turn things around so I started getting involved with local activist chapters. Do what you can and try to get your family involved. It all helps.
I voted by mail went to Hawaii hoping to tune it out. All it did was depress the fuck out of me during my vacation. I put on a fake smile and tried to enjoy myself, but the 2nd half of that trip sucked.
Yea, me too. That was a sense of doom on another level.
I'm a veteran and a minority as well. It's great knowing more than 1 language because I can claim a different country that speaks my language as my own to avoid the negative association of being an American.
I also get discounts speaking my native tongue compared to white folks who come blaring in disrespectfully.
Who said there were no "perks" being a minority in the United States
You should look up war criminal, because I don't believe you know what it means
Don’t feed the trolls :)
Easy there calling veterans war criminals...maybe you should serve before judging
As a veteran I disagree with the war criminal comment just as I disagree with you saying you should serve before judging.
People who join are split into thirds; a third are actually drunk off the Kool aid who believe the USA is God's endowment, a third are there because lack of economical opportunities back home, and the last third are trying to get out of their shit situation, whether it be near homelessness or abuse.
It's by design from the government to make us citizens desperate enough to sign our lives away for a chance to have our heads above water.
Government is more interested in using your body as a meat shield than educating you.
Remember when Rep Jim Banks if Indiana said forgiving student debt would make it harder for the military to use free tuition as an incentive to enlist? Nothing says "I represent the people" like intentionally making education unaffordable so get more people to join the military!
I feel contempt for the drunk off third and pity for the other two thirds.
posts sign DON’T FEED THE TROLLS
Are you dense? I just told you they're warcriminals.
Anyone, from a truckdriver to cooks, when part of the US military are equally guilty of all the shit they do.
From droning weddings to torture while looting poor defenseless countries.
I have nothing but contempt for them.
The logistics chain doesn't end at the border of the US military-industrial complex. Everyone in the US is culpable. We all assist in one way or another to keep this war machine running. We are impelled to do so via the coercion of the system, just as the soldiers are. We're all criminals.
That sentence is written in a way where they could have easily meant “I should be far more embarrassed for being a veteran but this is taking the cake”.
And most people who serve in the US military are pushed into because they can’t afford life otherwise. I’m sure many are pretty shit, but most are honestly kinda just your average person. As an institution it’s not got the best track record but it’s not the IDF gleefully and openly murdering children.
Now please stop making me have to defend the US military of all things, it feels icky.
I really don't care for that excuse.
"I really don't want to but I'm a poor black kid and no chance of education otherwise. " If you CHOOSE to better yourself at the expense of others, and think your solution is joining an organisation that is in the business of murdering and looting then they can go to hell.
They most certainly murder children and are also guilty in helping the IDF do it. Not just supplying weapons.
They can choose to get a gun and rob banks or rich assholes.
That would be way more honorable and fair than cowardly bombing brown people from a distance for some money.
Except most of them are fully brainwashed. Recruiters literally go into their schools and start when they’re young, and they leave out all the important details. These days it’s pretty obvious, and there’s a reason that they’re struggling to get numbers like they used to, but if someone is already a veteran then they joined up many years ago.
Telling someone to go rob a bank is just insane. I get the sentiment, I really do, but c’mon man have at least a little empathy. I’m not asking for anything more than maybe chilling on the default “war criminal” stuff. I’m even happy to agree that the institution is shady as fuck and full of issues. There’s nuance here, and nuance is not an synonym for “excuse”, it just means that it’s more than 0 or 100.
I will copy/paste my response and add that I also have a hangover:
This is a subject that pisses me off every time. No organisation in the world is more harmful and it causes enourmous misery for millions. When someone defends those, make’s excuses for them or bring up someone’s a veteran implying they deserve respect, have done some service for the country or even heroes I get indeed very confrontational. You’re 100% right that it doesn’t help to convince people. I usually try a more tranquil approach on other subjects. Even then the reaction is almost invariably insults and accusations. At least it will be an eye opener for some that believed everyone is like them and they are universally loved. But thanks for your sensible advice.
I forgot to mention it doesn't really matter what I say since much less controversial comments of mine sget removed systematically and rapidly when they go against the narrative.
I never said they deserved respect, I mean calling someone a war criminal while they actively criticize GOP foreign policy is fucking wild. You started this all on your own.
Dude, it ain't that easy to escape the claws of propaganda. Being all confrontational with the grunts of US imperialism ain't gonna create class solidarity.
This is a subject that pisses me off every time.
No organisation in the world is more harmful and it causes enourmous misery for millions.
When someone defends those, make's excuses for them or bring up someone's a veteran implying they deserve respect, have done some service for the country or even heroes I get indeed very confrontational.
You're 100% right that it doesn't help to convince people.
I usually try a more tranquil approach on other subjects.
Even then the reaction is almost invariably insults and accusations.
At least it will be an eye opener for some that believed everyone is like them and they are universally loved.
But thanks for your sensible advice.
Too edgy 4me man.
The most embarrassing moment in American history. Regurgitating Russian propaganda to the ally currently under attack from Russia. It's almost unbelievable that this actually occurred...
I don't think Ukraine is an ally anymore. I don't think much of Europe is our ally at this point
I'm certainly not an ally, and I live here.
I mean, same. I hate that I'm an American rn.
Good thing we have the 1st and 2nd Amendments.
Perhaps useful idiots on the left should stop trying to take them away.
This administration and the greater right wing is the most virulent opponent of the first amendment this country has ever seen, and its not even remotely close.
How so?
so far.
Its wild how much damage is being done in such a short time and how powerless everyone is to do anything.
That's the real kicker, everyone is not powerless. On the contrary, as a matter of fact, everyone is powerful. America could change tomorrow if Americans wanted it bad enough.
People feel powerless because the country is split. They can't change tomorrow became that would require onboarding 150m people and convincing them to standup to a tyrannical regime.
So it doesn't matter how bad people on the left want it they can't change anything. There is the option of revolution but you only get one shot at that and the Feds will see it being organised from a mile away.
Almost. But some of us could tell he was a Manchurian Candidate
Most embarrassing, wtf, have you read american history past the first grade. Hell in the first chapter you'll find ethnic cleansing of natives and the three fifths compromise. This isn't even the first time we've done a shakedown like this. Half of Latin America got this treatment in the 19th century, albeit less crude and poorly executed.
Even on the regurgitating authoritarian propaganda front, in the 70s we were running diplomatic cover for fucking Polpot and playing down the genocide because we wanted to get back at Vietnam and cozy up to China.
Those were all closed door dealings that boomers children could've only learned from hindsight. This was a public display of WTFery that rewrites the last century of geopolitical history, something like this hasn't happened since... Oh god.
More embarrassing than Holocaust denial and the slaughter of indigenous people?
There’s lots of embarrassing things. There’s lots of really bad embarrassing things.
I hear the French had a most fabulous invention that could help with these sorts of problems.
The Etch-A-Sketch?
You could draw it on an etch-a-sketch.
But not quite as embarrassing as your comment history.
Dunning Kruger indeed
That was their goal. Humiliate Ukraine like he tried to humiliate Canada and Mexico. He's a bully and conman and lying, cheating, and breaking deals is how he has gotten through life and it's all he knows. He thinks that by humiliating and making other leaders feel small and helpless he can make himself look big and strong and get a better deal.
He hasn't figured out yet that dealing with sovereign countries with millions of citizens whose politicians need to answer to them, not Trump, is different that cheating a small paint store or a small architecture firm.
He's bankrupted everything he's tried to, the-art-of-the-deal and he's going to bankrupt America.
If the world works together it can bring the United States to heel.
He tries to run diplomatic relations like he would be dealing with NYC mobsters. That man is entirely unsuited for office. The US population which elected him has shown to be unsuited for the leadership role they claim their country has. That’s the reality the rest of the world is facing. The US is a troubled state and an unreliable ally. Moreover, they are acting in the interests of adversarial nations to world peace and prosperity. Other nations who did that have been deemed rogue or terrorist states.
Trump's tariffs are about to come into effect against Canadian goods in a couple days. I fully expect to see another meltdown from Trump. I really hope Trudeau records the entire meeting/phone call and makes it public so the whole world can witness it.
I am sad that due to the sheer mass of stupid new shit trump is pulling the impending implosion of north American trade (and therefor economy) is getting very little coverage (even Canadian news at the moment is covering other things).
Reality is that every other country will look down on USA for years. USA is not going to be considered trustworthy trading partner nor trustworthy ally.
And the sad part is that even if we can get our act together and pull put of this, our former allies would be justified in not getting too close, because we've demonstrated that we could just allow the morons back in at the next election to burn it all down again.
The US always had terribly low resilience in the way their government is structured. The "checks and balances" were pretty great in the late 18th century, but their protections are paper thin and assume good faith.
Several countries have iterated upon their constitutions in the last 300 years, often to close exactly the kind of vulnerabilities we can see exploited in the US right now. For example, because of what the Weimar republic's article 48 was used for in 1933, the German president no longer has those powers.
I understand that the US constitutions had had amendments, but as far as I can tell, the fundamental flaws across several core institutions have never been addressed. Until they are, the US can not be a trustworthy partner for any endeavor longer than the next election cycle.
Ah, that gets to a different part of our problem: our Conservatives' fetish for our founders. A majority of our Supreme Court literally uses "What would George Washington think of all this" as justification for rulings. It is very hard (on purpose) to get amendments passed, they need broad consensus not only at the Federal level, but at the State level. That will be impossible to get when half the country uses "what did the founders think" as the benchmark for all rulings. It makes it impossible to update anything.
It’s frankly a much healthier strategy for our (former) allies. We’re really not all that dependable anymore. We’ve been coasting on inertia for decades.
No, I wouldn't say that. Prior Republican administrations certainly pushed the Unitary Executive theory, but only at some boundaries and worked within the bounds set by Congress and the Courts for most things. Even the first Trump administration was constrained, not only by Congress but also by the administrators that Republicans encouraged him to bring in board, who continued to respect those boundaries.
The unique thing about this Presidency is that Trump is upending all of it. Republicans have long fantasized about demolishing the parts of the Federal government they don't like. Now they own all the levers of government and could do it all through legislation. But they won't, because they understand aspects of it will be unpopular and don't want those votes on the record. So instead, Congress is letting Trump and Musk grab them by the pussy. Republicans get to make the government so small they can drown it in the bathtub, like they always wanted, much faster than the legal process would allow for. All they have to do is look the other way while Trump and Musk trample all over the laws.
So yes, this is different. Our former allies would be correct to not trust us again unless we can place real constraints around the Presidency again, somehow. Depending on Congress to be a check on a President no longer works.
Cope.
Ya’ll’ve been skirting the line for a long time. Most people only get along with the US because they feel like have to, or because they aren’t paying attention to what happens when you get on their bad side for doing things like trying to develop democracy(Latin America, anyone?). Your country was already in the hole but we still had you tied to a rope and were desperately propping you up because you have the keys to van. Now you’ve called everyone losers and cut the rope and, frankly, we’re starting to realize that our efforts would be better spent walking home that trying to fish you out of there while being fought the whole time just for you to drive us all off a cliff an hoir later.
Fuck the US. Fucking shithole.
While some of the critiques you’re leveling are completely valid and correct, I don’t think making a sweeping hostile generalization about all Americans is helpful here.
Also you’re coming off like an asshole. I want to help. The person you’re replying to probably wants to help too. Don’t punch down on that
This person I’m replying to believes that if the world just waits it out that American can be a shining beacon of hope with just a few changes. That is not the case, and the people of the US need to understand that the rest of the world does not believe them to be the main characters the same way they do.
Even many well-meaning in the US are taught a history that paints them as heroes and downplays the efforts of others. Many believe they won WW2, after joing exceptionally late and only because they themselves were attacked. It is a selfish nation, and I do not care(in this instance) about the good people who live there if the country and all it’s might are used to destroy the lives of others.
I have good friends who are from the US and there are many strangers to me from there who equally don’t deserve the consequences of what’s happening. I am still avoiding buying from there, and as Trump said himself that step one of trying to take over Canada would be to attempt to cripple us economically right before enacting tariffs meant specifically to cripple us economically I consider the US an enemy state actively trying to wage war against us.
Do not tell me to be so kind and gentle to someone who thinks that in four years, if they even manage to elect one of their lukewarm centre-right Democrats back into office, that I should breathe a great sigh of relief and pretend everything is back to normal. The US, as a country, is a terrible place filled with all manner of cruel monsters.
And yes, many good individuals, too.
Not that poster, but it’s really easy to be an ass in these discussions because it’s normally filled with liberal middle class Americans who have a unique set of blinders and hopes that can get frustrating .
And I say this as a middle class American more deluded than most
Yeah I'm actually slightly annoyed that while the first presidency we haven't cooled that much and prepared ourselves to be less dependent on the US.
But I think now it's pretty clear, "Trump"s USA is not something we (as europeans) can rely on anymore. Repeating the error twice should be more than enough to come to that conclusion, it was blatantly obvious that something like this could happen (seemingly not for a lot of americans, it's almost comical to see something like "LeopardsAteMyFace"). Though I'm still a little bit surprised at what speed Trumps administration is able to disassemble the US...
I'm not. I keep reminding people that "dismantling the administrative state" has been a priority for our Conservatives for quite a while now. What makes this different, though, is that they are choosing to do it quickly and illegally even though they have the votes to do it the regular way. That is what makes this different. They are sending the message, on purpose, that laws dont matter anymore, across the whole thing. Prior administrations might have skirted legal boundaries from time to time, but not on all fronts like this one has.
So it's not that Europe can't rely on Trump's USA. It's that Europe can't rely on the American government respecting its own laws. And even if they throw this lot out in 4 years, it can all come back if we don't get out shit together as a country. That will be impossible to do while Trump is still around. I fear. Even if he can't manage to get past the 2-term limit every Republican will be subservient to him until God exercises His Ultimate Recall Vote.
It's hard for me to ignore the fact that what you said is 100% something Putin wants. Trump could not be doing a better job of tearing apart the United States and its standing in the world.
The only way the US recovers from that is with a new constitution with actual dictatorship preventive measures in place.
Really curious what this means for Taiwan. Their sovereignty depends on US support, but with Trump at the helm, we're just as likely to cut a deal with Xi and stay home when the fighting starts.
It means nothing for Taiwan, the US has supported the One China policy regarding Taiwan for decades and still do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_arms_sales_to_Taiwan
The US has been arming Taiwan for decades. Why would that be necessary if the US considered Taiwan to be part of China? You're confusing diplomacy for policy.
You tell me
Maybe you can tell us why China hasn't gone ahead and invaded Taiwan yet, if the US has supported the One China policy for decades?
China, the US, and Taiwan view Taiwan as belonging to China as per the One China doctrine.
No, they dont
As is confirmed in your first link, the USA acknowledges that the Chinese position is that Taiwan is a part of China, and recognise that the PRC is the government of China, they deliberately do not say if they consider Taiwan a part of China or not.
You should read up on the policy of strategic ambiguity with regards to China.
Generally speaking it's a "speak softly but carry a big stick" approach. "One China" policy is speaking softly. Sailing warships through the Taiwan Strait is brandishing the big stick. That tells China the reality of the situation... One China means Taiwan is de jure part of China, but is de facto an independent country. Why would China invade Taiwan if it's already part of China? Such a thing wouldn't make sense!
But if China were to invade Taiwan they would be an explicit action that indicates Taiwan is not already part of it. There would be no more One China policy because China ended it through their actions.
When Biden was President he made a typical Biden gaff when he was saying things that didn't conform to the One China policy. Whoopsie! Didn't mean that... seriously, the One China policy is still going strong *wink*. Was that just a typical Biden gaff, or was that him saying the real policy on Taiwan? We can't know for sure, but China got the message. That's strategic ambiguity.
Needless to say Donald Trump has no understanding of the nuance of strategic ambiguity. In fact he's more worried about not upsetting his good friend Xi.
Username does not compute.
Did you think you were being clever?
Did you?
People waking up the reality of what the USA actually is.
At the time Trump built Trump Tower, Jackie Kennedy was the most famous and beloved person in New York City. Undisputed Queen of high society. Her pet project was preservation of great New York architecture. Everyone knew about her efforts to save Grand Central Station.
The building Trump razed to put up the Tower was considered one of the most beautiful on 5th Avenue. Everyone told Trump that he could preserve the façade of the building and still have a massive skyscraper on top.
So, Trump ignored everyone and demolished the building after promising to preserve parts of it.
That's the kind of idiot he has always been.
Now I want to learn about that building.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellisicky/2020/10/03/how-donald-trump-took-down-bonwit-teller-a-fifth-avenue-landmark/
https://drivingfordeco.com/stewart-and-company/
There's actually a picture of Jackie O and John Jr. shopping in the store.
That was the most beautiful building? I hate Trump but it’s so plain. I was expecting something actually cool looking.
No one said Trump Tower is better, only that the original building should, by basically any metric, be considered “among the most beautiful in New York”.
✨ Reading comprehension ✨
Yea dude, it’s got a fancy entryway visible even in the first photo that I suppose I should have mentioned, and a lot of interior stuff that is specifically not part of the façade, which is what people had asked him to keep on the lower floors.
I’d say try harder but you might hurt yourself.
Never said Trump Tower was better I just said that other building wasn’t beautiful.
Maybe it looked better in person and the photos don't do it justice. That said, the front entrance is gorgeous. I think the second link outlines its details better. I'm a fan of art deco.
I didn’t see the entrance. Yeah that’s a big loss for sure. Come check out Detroit, all our old buildings are Deco.
Would love to, mate! Just maybe after this administration and once the FAA gets running again 😅
I live near Detroit, The Guardian Building especially the interior. I did a move job there for Wayne County. Beautiful building. One Detroit Center and The Fisher Theater too. The Renaissance Center can get pushed into the river though.
Real “Oh you like buildings? Name all of them.” energy
Not really. It has more of a "show us what you consider good so we can tell whether your taste is actually decent and your opinion is worth considering, or your taste is kinda whack in the first place" energy.
Wow, they replaced boring with tacky. Yea it was a downgrade but c’mon, that thing’s a plain block of concrete with a couple of carvings so high up that no one can even really see them. I was expecting it too at least look like the Flat Iron building or something(which isn’t wild, but at least it has texture).
Definitely a Brutalist structure. A building designed by an architect like Paul Rudolph would have done that style justice
I even gave you an example of where my preference was leaning and sure as shit wasn’t that. You’re either too stupid to communicate properly or one of those broken people who think trolling is fun and frankly I don’t have time for either.
That building was Albert Einstein
https://drivingfordeco.com/stewart-and-company/
Close.
Karens yelling at cashiers in the checkout line also think they're humiliating their victims.
He took away anyone's right to ever suggest a woman would be too emotional to be president lmao.
You expect Republicans to be consistent? They live for hypocrisy.
Yeah exactly. I wonder how Trump would've responded if anyone in the room asked him if he would have used diplomacy had he been president during Pearl Harbour or 9/11. I'd have loved to see him squirm his way out of that one after he stated that Zelensky needs to be open for concessions in exchange for peace.
"If I'd been president they wouldn't have dared to attack us!"
Has Trump done anything in the past month to not humiliate the US and drastically weaken our global strength and influence?
Some drone strikes on some Al Qaeda guys I guess? But nothing of significant note. The rest has been a complete humiliation of the US.
The same drone strikes he said were illegal, and instead of stopping, removed reporting of so he could say he didn't do it but Obama did... ugghhhh
What matters to trump is what he makes himself feel about the event, not what actually happened. The Führer feels he was strong, therefore America strong, because he’s all that matters in the picture. Absolutely no other factors need intrude.
It's an infantile vision of what a strong man is. He's a caricature and the US is a joke as a result.
Of course it is. The country as a whole is infantile since they identified enough with him to vote him in.
Hey, this country's been infantile for a lot longer than Trump has been alive
America humiliated itself by voting this orange twat back in
We tried not to, I promise you. Our voting system is ...problematical, at best
Illusion of choice
So is social media, and the openness of free societies to internal (the rich owning the media) and external (foreign adversaries) tampering. Spreading misinformation, eroding trust in institutions and truth itself, poisons like that.
Many democracies are crumbling this way. We yet have to find an effective antidote.
Regardless of the voting system, there still is a worryingly large portion of voters who were corrupted to serve other's interests. And that is true to all (?) countries. That not just any two democracies fall first, but GB and US, kind of shows us that it could be anyone.
So while it is easy to look down on the fallen, or feel ashamed to be that - we're helpless in this together. Hate to end like that.
Anyone know how fox news is spinning it to the Maga folk? I can't bring myself to look at the cancer.
Zelenskyy gave Fox and interview which came off quite well.
Idk, but I've seen "Zelensky is a welfare queen asking for a handout" narrative and Zelensky is short and Donald tall so he gooder takes from the right. They are absolutely fucked in the head.
I remember before they criticized him for not wearing a suit which is a talking point that conveniently made to that meeting. Appearance doesn't matter to them so much as the coverage.
Zelensky hasn't put on a suit since the war started. He also has been maintaining a short beard and keeping his hair slightly mussed. It's a powerful image for the men and women fighting for Ukraine's freedom, showing that their president is right there with them where a suit and tie would make him look more like Farquaad.
I liked his reply to that. That black shirt looks miles better than that ill fitting suit on that guy
He should come to the next meeting (if there is one) in a tan suit.
Eating a hamburger with Dijon mustard
Something like that, probably
Just to clarify: I think zelenski is an example to the world and I think it's very fair to call him the Churchill of our generation.
Churchill was an asshole garbage too
The leaders you want in a war aren't the ones you want in peaceful times and vice versa. But when there is war, it's important to have one of the leaders who're good at managing the country in such a situation, and that applies to both Churchill and Zelenskiy.
Yes, they both have many flaws. But that doesn't mean someone else would be better.
The difference is zelensky has always been a puppet of the US
Sounds like something a Hitler glazer would say.
Churchill was in fact a racist jerk, despite me hating Hitler more
Are we really gonna try and rewrite history and paint Churchill as good?
Care to explain or link an article?
Here's an article that summarizes an entire book filled with Churchill's douchebaggery
Thank you.
He was kinda shit to India and probably some other things. But that's just internet contrarian nitpicking stuff. When someone mentions Churchill everyone knows it means a leader that held strong against what seemed an impossible enemy to defeat.
And he was the best war time leader the UK could have hoped for. Same goes for zelenski, though I think he might even be a good peace time leader, he definitely is the best war time leader Ukraine could want.
The tough guy act falls pretty flat to me when if it came down to it I'm pretty sure the average 13 year old could deal with this geriatric old man. Like gramps your bones are made of glass.
Didn't Musk's kid tell him to STFU?
And that he wasn't president.
You know there's something wrong when Putin and his cronies are the only ones applauding you.
did you know there are BYD chinese cars sold all over europe.
if they are US allies - how does that happen?
What a moronic thing for Trump to have said when nearly everything anyone in the United States buys/uses comes from China.
Not cars tho.
What does this have to do with what I said
This should have been over the second he mocked that disabled reporter, the fact that it didn't says more about America as a country than the fact that it was allowed to get HERE.
The idea that Zelensky should owe the US anything is darkly hilarious. The US has been using this war to further its own geopolitical aims, without regard for Ukrainian lives. "Pay us back for the privilege of being a sacrificial pawn of US foreign policy". Gross.
To add to that: Even from a purely military perspective, the intelligence gain regarding modern tactics far offsets what the US paid for it
There is so much in this direction. For a fraction of the budget, you could obliterate both the Russian army and economy, without losing any soldiers. What an opportunity, what a deal. Unless you're owned by Russia, of course.
Trump is a vulgar minded criminal who only thinks in terms of money and cash.
U.S.S.A.
We should honestly update maps to show America as a Russian state. It's still crazy that America won the cold war, but managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
It's been obvious since at latest 2014 that the cold war never ended, merely paused.
We should honestly stop blaming russia for USA having always been a garbage slave empire.
I've been calling it the FSA (Fascist States of America).
Yeah, that's less of wacky lib conspiracy and more of an accurate description of reality.
100% knew this shit would happen. Knew he was going to take this all as some massive win. His cronies probably all patted him on the back and gladly licked his nuts.
The US federal abomination continues its rapid deterioration
Who cares what others think of the US, it's all a facade. Regardless who's in office the world sees us as a joke. Homelessness, incarceration rates, low education, poverty, no healthcare, stagnant wages, there's a thousand things to look down on about the US other than a fanatical asshole.
Sure but we're all used to that. But we've never seen a President deliberately sabotage US interests in this way.
TIL allowing homelessness, high incarceration rates, low education, poverty, lack of health care, and stagnant wages isn't sabotaging US interests
The problem with the US is that American exceptionalism has made Americans unable to distinguish between global politics and domestic politics.
In short, other countries generally don't concern themselves with US domestic politics, because the concept of sovereignty means countries don't interfere in each other's domestic problems.
I was mainly pointing out how the US government is willing to bend over backwards when "American interests" are threatened, but doesn't consider housing, education, and poverty to be worth doing anything about. It's mainly throwing our weight around and making sure rich people don't lose money.
Which just shows what "American interests" really are.
You need to work on your reading comprehension
So people having homes isn't in America's interest? People not being fucking idiots and electing Trump isn't in America's interest?
Ah, the duality of the United States. An greedy evil imperialistic Nation that undermines everyone else, but also USAID is going away and people are wondering wtf they are going to do to get by.
USAID has never been anything but a tool of US imperialism and regime change masquerading as charity
Yea but freedumb! Ma guns!
The sick fucks at Fox said Orange Numbnuts should receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Did Neville Chamberlain make the nomination list when he licked the sweat off of Hitler's sack?
half the voting population thinks trump did humiliate zelensky
The U.S. citizens bought the ticket now it's time to take the ride.
I'd like a refund please, I didn't agree to this.
He doesn’t think it, Krasnov simply knows he has to keep repeating that talking point to get people that haven’t seen the “discussion” to side with him. Why this talking point instead of another? Using the same criticism against the other side turns it into a matter of whose word those people value more to begin with. It’s him relying on his popularity. Those that don’t value Krasnov more (that also haven’t seen it) could potentially be swayed to at least think both sides were in the wrong.
…and you would have to be just drop dead stupid if you thought our NATO and EU allies weren’t watching this coverage.
Colonizers betraying colonizers? I'm shocked. \s
He did something much worst then humiliating x or y. Everyone already knew he is a clown, but he pretty much blown any credibility USA still had as a partner for anything, see also tariffs and threatening 2 allies (Canada and Greenland)
This is Don Corleone beheivior, I give you 100 billions in old military equipment and you give me 500 back, really?
Also, USA offered security guarantees on '90s when Ukraine gave back the nukes to Russia. Officials didn't forget that, maybe Trump did.
Trump would say that the deal was done under incompetent old management and it is not valid under him. As if the government is now his and not the old.
Ok, then his validation as president was done by the same incompetent old management and it's not valid.
He can say what he wants. International treaties are international treaties. If you break them you loose your credibility, if you still have any after threating to invade your allies.
lot of people are "shocked" and "surprised" but like why, as the saying goes he literally said he would do that
They thought he'd pivot.
Zelensky didn't need to be made humble. Clearly he is and is only in power at this point for the sole reason to overcome the ruzzian invasion.
Trump embarrassed everyone who watched. It's like watching a human do something disgusting and realizing it was disgusting without knowing anything else about humans.
It's impossible to humiliate a genocidal empire with no shame.
I’m not pro trump but I am a libertarian, this shit was downright disgraceful. Shows how mature he is.
at this point, the rest of the world should start phasing out and blocking anything American. can't rely on the looney bin for critical infrastructure.
Føtex in Denmark is to start marking American products, so now it's easier to know if you're buying something American or something European.
I think Canada is also going to make a few trade deals with us.
The united states is a clown of a country for three decades.
If he acted like that on camera, imagine what he's like behind closed doors.
He who drinks with the enemy while his ally bleeds is no hero but a fool. You grant him honor while he seeks to burn your and your ally’s home. No word of peace holds meaning while his sword is still raised against those who stand with you.
To be fair, he humiliated both.
This banana republic was never respectable but with the senile genocide enabler first (who they desperately tried to us was still mentally capable) and now the orange clown they have certainly sunk to new lows.
Don't worry americans, there IS no reputation to harm.
Anyone equating Trump and Biden (in a thread that has literally nothing to do with the latter) is either full of shit or in desperate need of a civics lesson or three.
And your motives are transparent.
I have laughed and ridiculed the comedy capers of Genocide Joe just as much as I did the orange clown.
They both have different yet equally amusing traits. And is most certainly on point seen this thread is on humiliating shit from your banana republic.
They can most certainly be equated.
I really don't care your feelies get hurt by it and have to lash out with potty mouth vulgarities.
"And your motives are transparent."
LOL let's try an ad hominem in desperation since you have nothing to offer.
Bye now, enjoy your embarrassing shithole.
I know I will:
Accuses someone of being a "potty mouth" then proceeds to use the exact same "vulgarity". Okay then, hypocrite
Elon Musk level wit here. Watch out everyone.
People have lost their minds over a disagreement. It's really not a big deal. Here is the real problem, Zelensky openly states his expectations during that meeting in the oval office that Russia will 1. Leave all Ukrainian land, including Crimea. 2. Pay to rebuild Ukraine. This will never happen, ever. Ukraine is free to continue the war as long as they wish and America is free Not to continue to pay for their weapons and the functioning of their government.
It is not the disagreement per se that people are losing their minds over (though that is another topic). It is the way he and his vice president shouted at another president's face just because he thinks acting tough and macho will appease his supporters. This is just disgraceful and pathetic. No one with a grain's worth of sense would want a college bully as the president of the US.
Acting tough is not what his supporters want. No longer funding endless wars is. It's really not that hard.
No, that's what they claim to want
What they actually want is a command to trick them into feeling like they're powerful
Interesting that you disregard what they are telling you they want and then invent a different motive that coincidentally makes you feel superior. Weird.
Actions speak louder than words
Conservatives are lying idiots, believing what they say is what an idiot would do
They control the house, senate, white house, and supreme court. They control America until voted out of power.
Oh no, the bot forgot the context of the conversation
Haha sorry that makes no sense. What does shouting at and humiliating a president in front of cameras achieve that just stating the US won't be a side anymore does not? It was clearly for show.
And I like your emphasis on endless wars. Stoking up endless wars and enabling the slaughter of children and civilians is apparently fine as long as you are turning a profit since %100 of republicans (and %90 of democrats for that matter) said no to Bernie Sander's stop arms sale to Israel resolution.
It is true that Israel holds some power over both parties and they fall over themselves to grovel at their feet. That I cannot explain.
Yes, America is free to let Putin invade a sovereign country.
Of course this makes them chickenshit appeasers. Unreliable Russian bootlickers who are willing to abandon their commitments under the Budapest Memorandum. But they are free to do this.
Just don't give me any of this "land of the free, home of the brave" bullshit. They've proven who they are, and they are not that. They're fucking greedy imperialist cowards, friends of dictators and authoritarians. I hope they do us all a favour and just hurry their descent into irrelevance.
Once they've completed their internal collapse, and the pieces have been picked apart, a new Alaric will ride in and close the deal. Lasted less than 300 years. Pretty pathetic by comparison. But I guess the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
America has never been the world's police, except if you think the police are there to enforce power from the dominant socio economic group. In which case yes.
They didn't help people. Remember those wmds that didn't exist and were never found?
They've only ever been a force for their own power and enrichment
Yes all true. Only one side is trying to make it stop.
Who ever asked for that ?
Europe is asking right now. They want to form a European coalition "of the willing" to stand with Ukraine........but only if America offers security guarantees. Guarantees that America will fight, so yes they are all asking.
Yo you asked for help after 9/11 and not a single dollar was paid back to Europe. Just a reminder!
That is a valid point, I'll give you that one. With 38 US military bases in the EU we are their national defense. Many Americans are tired of war and don't want to get dragged into another endless conflict.
You(usa) and europe are the problem. I look forward to dissolution of your western imperial system so peoples of usa and europe truly get liberated and emanicpated
How did you get that over our Cheeto and his couch fucker vp yelling over him, knowing English is a second language to him, just yelling and talking over him, straight bullying him like he stole something. Our "leaders" are pathetic children. Can't even stay on topic, went to the laptop, Hilary, holy fuck, these are our "negotiators" that have inserted themselves to help? America is cooked, were a fucking embarrassment. I'm ashamed to call myself American. JD making sure he gets a little camera action since president musk will be back and he'll be the third wheel. Fuck me we suck so bad.
I know in this instance you are prone to see Zelensky with the best eyes possible, but this was a shitshow from both sides. Trump, the usual, but Zelensky, what a lack of self-awareness!
This was a planned ambush. Zelensky handled it as well as could be expected under the circumstances. The fact that Vance and Trump kept demanding he say thanks and be obsequious to them when they've done nothing but undermine Ukraine and carry Putin's water was beyond parody.
Thank you? For what? Extortion while promising nothing? If I were him I'd have told them to go fuck themselves. I guess that's why I'm not president of jack shit.
I'm with Trump on Ukraine.
And I don't support Trump on other issues.
It's fucking stupid supporting them. Whole thing started back in the days, but the world changed dramatically since.
What a stupid take. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and inform you that when the USSR fell a substantial amount of their nuclear weapons were within Ukraine's borders and Ukraine was the only new state in a position to actually maintain and potentially deploy their nuclear arsenal.
Ukraine gave up those nukes on the promise that Russia and the USA wouldn't invade Ukraine. Now Russia has invaded and the USA is siding with fucking Russia. This sends a message to every other civilized nation that the USA won't back them up if another nuclear power invades. Where does that logically lead them then? "Better build my own nuclear deterrent" and now we're gonna go from 7 countries with potential to end all life on earth to god knows how many. The downstream impact of this could literally end humanity.
I don't care about those squabbles.
world has changed - china is beating US economically and that's unlikely to change.
have you been to any store in US recently - what's manufactured in US? nothing - that's right.
if US starts some stupid war right now - they don't have the manufacturing industrial base anymore, in fact - China would be that country with that base.
Protecting EU for free make no sense - did you know there are BYD dealerships all over the place in europe? chinese cars - and thats supposed US ally, that allows complete chinese infiltration on its soil.
Firstly, please don't whatabout me. But to answer your question; goods in every sector are still manufactured in this country. From shoes and jackets to missiles and airplanes, we still make it all. Definitely in far smaller quantities than before, because the cost of labor is significantly higher, meaning US made goods demand a large premium over imported goods. If everything was made domestically you'd be too poor to buy half the stuff you own now. Manufacturing jobs are trash and pay trash, unless they're highly skilled jobs (like building airplanes). Nobody wants $3 an hour where I'm from.
We're not protecting anything for free with Ukraine. We agreed that if this literal situation happened, we'd fight Russia since Ukraine was giving away their deterrent. Like, do you think Russia still would've invaded Ukraine if there were nukes that could wipe Moscow off the map in Ukraine?
Now everyone is going to start secret nuke programs because they can't trust the USA to honor it's end of the bargain. Our ability to negotiate was thrown into the garbage disposal for fucking what?
Troll = anyone u disagree with
how is life in Russia nowadays, by the way? we get almost no reports of it other than the occasional protestors getting shut down
Inflation of food prices is very noticeable. Still manageable, though.
Taxes are getting higher.
Lots of services can't be paid for due to sanctions. Some payments are possible, but for a premium.
Roscomnadzor still pisses everybody off. They're slowing down YouTube to an unusable rate. They claim it's Google's hardware degrading (It's not). Then there's Discord being blocked, and now they seemingly want to target Steam for some unknown reason (the reason is VKontacte needs more money).
More insane legislature is being talked about.
The lingering threat of being drafted or randomly killed by a drone isn't gone, which is emotionally draining.
People want peace. Yet, put responsibility on incumbent. (Think: "We had no say in it, they started it, they'll finish it")
Opposition? What opposition? Everybody's either jailed or were forced to leave the country. They'll literally lock up a single father up if he dares to show disagreement with their "special military operation." And the kid? Who cares? They don't matter to our very just and absolutely not corrupt courts. (Sry, still fuming about that story. Hope the judge and the principal will rot in hell)
That's about it. Source: me, also russian news media and official legislature sources
boeing whistleblower found dead: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
open ai whistleblower found dead: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/28/openai-whistleblower-suchir-balaji
huh, i was wondering about life in Russia
It tracks. US may as well be a Russian colony at this point
So... If China tries to take Taiwan, is that ok? Is it perfectly normal for the US to threaten to take Greenland and Panama?
Or are we pretending that war, genocide and taking over neighboring counties is just a one-off situation?
Yes. And I will tell you even more - we can't do shit for Taiwan.
It's too far away to resupply, and legally - it belongs to China.
In that case the US should be British still. Fucking uppity colony is what it is.
come and take it
Troops in Vietnam had ice cream and cold Coca Cola.
There are mobile Burger Kings that can be loaded into military supply transports.
That’s just food.
You have no idea the capabilities of US logistics. Why do you think we have military bases on 6 continents and half the countries in the fucking world. It’s not just for fucking fun. The whole point is that the US can have a fully supplied fighting force anywhere in the world within a couple days.
Go lick fascist boots somewhere else. I still stand by the idea that democracy should be defended.
completely different situation.
Vietnam - US was fighting against 3-rd world country. Sure with USSR/China backing, but indirect still.
When you talk about Taiwan - you are talking about directly engaging China for a Chinese island that's 60 miles from China and thousands of miles from US.
how do you picture that going?
if there is a hot war between US and China that's somehow without nuclear (again - im asking you how is it going to be without nuclear) -> none of those transports gonna reach Taiwan for resupply.
it's a simple production math - they can outbuild US in rockets probably 10 to 1 and with modern technology - none of US carriers/strike groups gonna be able to do shit. they gonna be sunk super quick.
math is not mathing - give that fucking island to China, I dont want ww3 because of it.
The fuck are you talking about?? The US managed to resupply in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years,and they're a LOT further away.
but its completely different situation.
those were 3rd word countries that were without any strong party backing.
with Taiwan - what's your plan? openly engage China? start ww3 over Taiwan?
this is - i'm sorry - this is fucking nuts.
US can't win that even with conventional weapons, those transports gonna be sunk before getting anywhere close to Taiwan.
No no, you said "too far away to resupply". I claim bullshit. I never suggested it was a good idea.
I don't agree with you, but I'm glad you're allowed to say this without being censored.
Thanks USA, we don't want another Afghanistan.
Zelensky we finally have Russia at the negotiations table ( no thanks to biden ) Russia sent people to talk about peace, the only one holding up the process is Zelensky. After all the money we sent to Ukraine we cant even get a deal on minerals? Let Russia consume them. EU is too busy buying oil/gas from Russia more than they have donated! EU could care less about Ukraine!
Holy shit a delusional Russian troll shows up. Fuck off.
I had some small hope your post was a satire reverse joke that just failed or something, sad to see that it’s not.
Filth. You are absolute scum.
Russia sent people to accept Trump's unconditional surrender.
That is a lie… do you just make shit up?
You mean the country that started the war by invading another country wants to discuss a peace they could have by simply getting out of that country? Russia, who has violated more than one ceasefire? What a bunch of crap.
There’s a history behind it. For most of Ukraine’s history, it was under Soviet control. In 1991, over 90% of Ukrainians voted for independence, and Gorbachev agreed, but with the condition that NATO wouldn’t expand past Germany—NATO agreed. Russia accepted democracy at its doorstep in exchange for that promise. What happened to Thatcher and Baker’s promise?
Later, Yeltsin sought NATO membership to foster closer relations, but NATO didn’t respond. NATO's military expansion seemed aimed at Russia, and without Russia, there’d be no need for that military buildup.
In 2000, Putin sought NATO membership again, but NATO ignored him. After 9/11, Putin supported the U.S., sharing intelligence, allowing airspace and military bases. But after the U.S. destabilized Iraq, Putin grew wary of NATO’s expansion into Russia’s sphere. This war with Ukraine could have been avoided—Russia, Ukraine, and the U.S. could have negotiated. Stop believing the media.
Yes Putin sought NATO membership, but NATO was formed as a check on Soviet aggression, so that's a nonstarter. Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, and they thought they'd cakewalk into Ukraine as well. There's no slant where Russia is the good guy in this. You sound like a propaganda machine.
NATO not expanding eastward was never put to paper. No one ever officially signed off on it, nor was it ever an official decree. It was never anything more than words of appeasement. Russia "agreed to democracy on its doorstep" because they were going through a regime collapse and were a tad preoccupied with preventing the collapse from going further. Even if they had kicked up a storm about it, what were they gonna do? The breakaway nations weren't going to just unpack their bags and stay with the abusive ex cause the ex said they can't leave. Russia would've had to suppress them militarily once again, and they didn't have the resources to do that.
NATO expanding eastward was because the former Soviet bloc countries wanted it. Because if you've regained your independence (for some of them it wasn't even the first time) from an aggressive neighboring nation, would you not wish to protect it with the means available to you? If Poland and the Baltics believed that, for the first time in centuries, Russia would stop doing Russia things, would they have sought to join? Because the only reason they've been spared Ukraine's fate is that Russia was in no position to execute militarily when those countries were accepted into NATO. And look at us now, thirty some years later, Russia is doing Russia things.
Wow, that's a lot of bullshit in such a short amount of text. Ignoring most of it, I'll focus on the "money" sent. We didn't send much in the way of funds. What we sent was old, obsolete, and outdated weapons and munitions which we will then replace with newer, modern and updated stock.
People also seem to forget that we're basically using Ukrainians as cannon fodder so the US and Europe don't have to put our troops on the line to hold back Russia (not that Trump cares about keeping Russia in check).