That guy is Brian Glenn. He's a host on "Real America's Voice", a right-wing to far-right station and the boyfriend of Marjory Taylor Greene.
The attending "press" has been pre-selected and it's not a stretch to assume that these people know what's expected of them. The narrative is that not wearing a suit is a sign of disrespect. When Trump greeted Zelensky in the beginning he also made a remark about it.
Exactly, it was all a setup to push the narrative that Ukraine doesn't respect the Oval Office. Same reason Couch Fucker Vance kept saying "you haven't even said thank you once."
They want it to considered purely as a business deal. Any reminder that Zelenskyy is leading a country that's fighting a war to defend their country from a dictator doesn't fit their narrative.
Yeah, I though Zelensky did a decent job of managing his emotions. Most of us would have popped Trump in the mouth before that had ended. (And WTF was up with that guy asking if Zelensky owned a suit? That should have been an automatic throat punch.)
Being an American is embarrassing right now. My apologies to the rest of the world. We're a dumpster fire.
The answer to the suit question should have been like, "Russia destroyed my suit and Ukraine's tailors are too busy sewing up wounds to spend time making a new one."
That really does explain a lot. People (and I use that term very loosely here) like that should be launched into orbit and fucking left there to think about what they've done.
The only person who did something wrong was Trump, supported by his deputy. They did not only verbally attack Ukraine (and, by doing so, Europe), Trump and Vance didn't even pretend to make a case for American interests, given Vance's complaint about Zelensky who thanked U.S. ammunition workers in Pennsylvania when he travelled there, because, in the new U.S. administration's view, this is seen as a support for the Democratic party.
The only positive thing is that the meeting was held in front of TV cameras so the world could witness the self-sabotage of the United States of America. A 'behind the scene' treachery would supposedly be much more harmful to Ukraine. The picture becomes more complete if we look that earlier this week, the U.S. had already voted at the United Nations against Ukraine, siding with Russia and China.
But now, the truth is out: The two men now holding the highest office in the White House are ready to sell the U.S. and its allies to the worst dictators on the globe, as Trump literally admires bad persons as he has been saying over and again. This is a signal the world has finally received. In Ukraine and Europe, but also in Taiwan, and the rest of the Asia-Pacific region, in Africa, in Latin America. It's a tough issue for Ukraine and the democratic world that must now reorganize.
But the toughest long-term challenge is already out for the U.S. Its allies' lost trust won't recover, and the world's dictators will pursue their own goals (maybe even more than ever). The United States are alone in a connected, globalized world. And this means that, with or without Trump at the helm, it'll become increasingly difficult to make America great again.
I am convinced that this is not what the majority of U.S. people want for their country.
the squishy stinky diaper was offering nothing. not a fucking god damn thing other than future betrayal...
a betrayal you know is coming, one that krasnov's been setting up for years now, and one that will forever tarnish relations between the u.s. and its long-time allies everywhere.
Oh. OK, cool, I thought the "Soviet agent" thing was more against Biden (he was openly using his welcome in Moscow in his younger years) than against Trump, but covert connections are more meaningful than open connections.
Fat Donnie did this to make Zelenskyy look bad (LOL) and shame him into complying on the "art of the steal" by a bully.
It was also a way to make a public excuse for not supporting Ukraine and siding with his actual employer, puny putin.
Imagine if Reagan could have lived long enough to see a republican steal his "make america great again" slogan, turn it into a cult, and then use that cult to be submissive to russia.
Takes a real shitbag to make Reagan look like the better option.
W. was certainly not the brightest bulb and unfortunately easily swayed by truly evil people around him (like Cheney), but I think as a president he always did what he thought was best for the country and its people. Trump only ever does what he thinks is best for himself.
Why the hell do liberals rehabilitate Bush like this? He invaded sovereign countries and began a 20 year long occupation, hundreds of thousands were killed in his wars, he also stripped away out civil liberties and conducted mass surveillance, indefinite detention without trial, and torture.
"Always did what he thought was best for the people" what an absolute load of horseshit. I guess it just so happened that what he thought was best was to ship people off to kill and be killed while he and his buddies got rich off it.
Like goddamn, what do I gotta do to get people carrying water for me like that? "Yeah I robbed a convenience store at gunpoint, which was bad, but you have to acknowledge that I was doing what I believed was best for the American people. It's not my fault, it's just all the people I chose to surround myself with who led me to do it." Where is your hate? You should want that motherfucker to hang!
I can always summarize my take on GW with that one time they ran a TV ad on how they added 2 new democracies to the olympic roster (I saw this fucking BS on CNN Europe live cca 2004 and it managed to make me fume even as a fairly apolitical young adult who then lived outside the US):
Besides getting a huge whipping from the International Olympic Committee for using the Olympics for political ads being illegal (so incredibly on brand) this also aged like milk.
Holy shit, I never saw that. If I hadn't lived through it I'd think that ad was a parody. The fucking smugness of it, I stg, Bush makes me hope Hell is real.
Nah he started the Iraq invasion because dubya has daddy issues and wanted to stick it to his old man. Fuck outta here with “he did what he thought was best for the country”
I saw that Pz Zelenskyy also thanked America for hosting him, as if he'd been calmly met by a proper head of state.
It takes a special kind of statesman to be blindsided by two half-wit kids and harangued on TV and then treat it as if it was business as usual.
Remember that Pz Zelenskyy is not your typical politician: he's a comedian who won the seat. How is it that this Everyman is more a leader and a collaborator, and those two are clowns out of the slow car?
I've been watching Hacks, and one thing a good comedian learns is how to read a room and handle a heckler. Zelenskyy knew he couldn't just shut them down because of the power dynamics, but he also knew this wasn't going to play well for Trump with the rest of the room. He didn't back down and yet he didn't take the bait to give them any real excuse to pull US support. They exposed their Russian puppet-strings for the world to see.
It is because he is an Everyman. People who have lived among the ordinary folk, is much more likely to understand the world as it actually is. Dipshits like Trump and Elon never had to deal with bills or consequences, just the difficult decision of which supermodel to pork on a given day.
Here's hoping that the Free States of America gets a Zelensky.
Reminded me of a typical argument between me and my delusional, selfish, narcissistic parents as a teenager. Saying anything at all would make them throw a tantrum.
Trump and Vance did the same type of thing: expected complete fealty after they had voted against Ukraine to join NATO and demanded respect when the previous administration were the ones that did most of the work beforehand. Getting pouty and shouty when he didn’t agree to their shitty “deal.” Brought up meaningless arguments about “respect” and not saying thank you when he had multiple times. Utter madness.
This was about putting on a show for their constituents and they would have done the same if he went in there kissing their asses. But he refused to play the game which made them angrier.
Vance bringing up the conspiracy theory shit about Zelensky putting on a show for visitors as if he was exaggerating is what really set me off. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together saw right through this bullshit song and dance.
He made Trump seem like an asshole yes. And that's why he's cooked . Trump is not going to support Ukraine going forward because Zelensky made him look bad. You have to appeal to the child to get anything from him.
There was no amount of flattery that was going to get Trump to oppose his Russian masters. The best thing Zelenskyy can do is make it clear that Trump is foolish for not backing Ukraine. It wins him points with European leaders who get to choose between backing Zelenskyy or following a fool and it increases the odds of getting a more favorable outlook from the US in 2-4 years as political tides shift (assuming the US continues holding a semblance of fair elections in the next 2-4 years)
Nah, it's too late for that. Other leaders are starting learn this too. You keep giving in so Trump asks for more, and then more. Nothing will ever be enough for him.
This is no longer about swallowing your pride and appealing to his enormous ego.
As an American, he did not. I'm sure he felt like he was in bizarro land where he acts perfectly reasonable and everyone around him is fucking crazy. That's how all us non-MAGAts feel, too.
I assume he must have gone back to his hotel room afterwards and just screamed in frustration for a solid hour. Or had a workout of with a punching bag with Trump and Vance's faces on them.
I'm truly astounded at the patience he showed during that event. It was infuriating to watch.
A White House official told Axios that Zelensky's interview on Fox was insufficient. "He keeps insisting on security guarantees on this economic deal, and we've made clear that won't be part of this," the official said.
Yeah doh! If we give you actually security guarantees how are we going to let Putin invite you again next year?
You can't have everything zelenski! We can, and we want, but you can't.
So all the European leaders are saying they stand with Ukraine. However that's nothing but "thoughts and prayers" until they bloody do something. Get some boots on the ground or planes in the air. Do something!
Why is this the question people are asking? It's a classic example of Republicans setting the narrative. I saw on a certain oft-promoted news aggregator that all the Republican news sources use the same words in reaction to the oval office event - "Zelensky refuses to apologize..."
So now that's what the mainstream media talks about, instead of the worrying Trump-Vance-Musk turn towards Russia.
He told the truth. Normally that is fine, but not in a room with a despot like Trump. So yea, that's a big whoopsie when you are trying to get US aid from that despot. Zelensky is a great guy, and a terrible politician.
I think, or at least hope, that the downvotes come from people who don't understand what it means to "play the game". Politicians don't act the way we'd all like (i.e. telling Trump to go fuck himself) because it's not playing the game. Zelensky didn't go to that extreme, but didn't back down and capitulate either. I hope that when you say he's a terrible politician, you mean that positively to some degree; he didn't fully "play the game" with regards to Trump.
That being said, there's no winning here. There wasn't gonna be a negotiation there anyway, he was gonna get screwed no matter what.
Yes, zelensky was 100% correct and did the "right" thing, but he has an entire country to think about. Someone should gift him some Machiavelli books.
I don't see evidence that this was inevitable. I see that zelensky flew to the US specifically for this meeting then was argumentative throughout the 40 minute press event and I don't think he needed to be. Other leaders meeting with Trump lately have managed to manipulate him better with much less motivation and stakes to do so. I don't think he gained much more than clout, and lost a seat at a negotiating table to sell mineral rights for something.
Technically he's the first one to say something clearly out of protocol (of course Trump and Vance said a lot of irritating things), but countries don't break alliances over such things, and they've had a lot of time to discuss something without cameras, so it's simply a prepared scene.
I just don't know what's this supposed to illustrate. If it's a scene by Trump&Vance to "justify" drying out of military support, then why would Zelensky participate in it. If it's a scene by Zelensky, then what in the world would he gain by it. If it's a mutually agreed scene, then, again, see previous.
If it’s a scene by Trump&Vance to “justify” drying out of military support, then why would Zelensky participate in it.
Zelensky is interested in public support.
There doesn't even have to be an agenda. It's a press meeting as a conclusion to talks. As elected leaders and/or representatives it makes sense to participate.
If he wouldn't have participated, how would that be better? They could still justify it - in even more of a vacuum to define their own views and spins. It would be worse.
You have to remember that during Trump's first administration, there was a terrible U.S. ambassador who committed a hit-and-run in the UK, killing a cyclist. The victim’s family traveled to the U.S. to seek justice, hoping the president would revoke her diplomatic immunity since she had fled the country.
The moronic president, treating it like a reality TV stunt, had the ambassador unexpectedly pop into a meeting with the grieving family—on live TV—to say sorry. This is just how his broken brain operates.
Doesn't explain Zelensky playing along (I can't call his behavior anything else).
I think they do have some plan to which Zelensky consented (however reluctantly) and this was a "reality TV stunt" to make it appear plausible. Maybe to save Zelensky's face in Ukraine to have the same partner in negotiations after ceasefire and the new Ukrainian election (has been postponed for almost a year, but that can't go on indefinitely).
What's happening is the US is negotiating with Russia without involving Ukraine. Not too dissimilar from European powers negotiating with Hitler over German claims on Czechoslovakia without Czechoslovakia being part of the negotiations. We know how that ended.
When Trump and Putin reach an agreement (without consideration for Ukraine) they make some bold claim similar to "Peace for our time" and expect everyone to go along with it. When that happens, Ukraine can ignore the agreement and continue fighting, but if too many countries buy Trump's version of "Peace for our time" then Ukraine could be considered the bad guy because they're not agreeing to end the war.
But after this? Every country in the world has reiterated their support for Ukraine. Any "peace plan" promoted by Trump will be known to be all about appeasing Putin and be rightly ignored by everyone. Trump's WWIII comment made it clear that Trump is afraid of Putin, nobody will respect anything he says about Ukraine going forward.
Putin is not Hitler. I'm not saying it's not a problem to be solved, having taken many lives and taking more, but it's a different problem.
Putin's regime is not capable of growing power. It's only capable of capturing more power. While ultimately similar inability made Nazis weak, they were capable of modernizing industries and rebuilding the military. Maybe if it were done slowly over 30 years instead of 5 years, they'd turn out a similar failure as Putin's Russia, having corrupted Germany enough to reduce its danger. We don't know, since they outright started killing people, putting them into prison camps and marching with knives on the streets.
Every country in the world has reiterated their support for Ukraine.
That's not true, but suppose it were.
If all those countries sent soldiers and equipment to Ukraine, that is, declared war on Russia, it would be over.
If they are not doing this, then what they are actually doing is the degree of real support.
Then maybe Trump's "deal" just shows it.
I think enough conscripted Ukrainians have already died, and everyone talking against such deal, be it even capitulation, should wish for Americans, Canadians, Brits, French, Germans, Italians ... to be conscripted to that frontline to end the war. Or admit they just want some Ukrainians to die for their feeling of justice they have in their safe cozy life.
What are you talking about? NATO air power alone (even without the US) would absolutely demolish what's left of the Russian military. Why are you talking about conscription in NATO countries?
Besides that, if Russia had its way we'd all wind up being conscripted into Putin's army and sent into the meat grinder for the sake of his imperial ambitions.
I think you need to take a break from Russian state media for a few hours, you're currently living in a bizarro fantasy world and are unable to have a conversation with people living in the real world.
NATO air power alone (even without the US) would absolutely demolish what’s left of the Russian military. Why are you talking about conscription in NATO countries?
To replace similar with similar. Don't move the goalposts. Point is - in my opinion enough Ukrainians have died and every westerner who wants further fighting should protest for their country to enter war.
So where's that NATO air power? If it's nowhere to be seen, then Ukrainians better think what's better realistically for themselves, not try to entertain cowards.
Besides that, if Russia had its way we’d all wind up being conscripted into Putin’s army and sent into the meat grinder for the sake of his imperial ambitions.
WDYM Russia had its way, "its way" is to destroy a (half) Russian-speaking country near it so that Russians wouldn't see an alternative daily that doesn't live based on Soviet mob rules. Why would a regime built on selling resources want to conquer its buyers? Who are still its buyers indirectly and sometimes directly, that's why they are not entering war.
I think you need to take a break from Russian state media for a few hours,
I think I'll do without your advice on anything at all, you are not intelligent enough. Russian state media is something I ignore since being 12.
you’re currently living in a bizarro fantasy world and are unable to have a conversation with people living in the real world.
Your comment has literally nothing to do with what I wrote because you are a coward and invent things to accuse me of.
Your country is not in war. Ukraine is in war and has suffered big human losses. Why are you not protesting for your country to enter war?
You cannot come up with a reason for Zelenski to play along in this "scripted interview", yet you're convinced it was actually planned? Isn't there a way simpler explanation here, given the two idiots he was sitting next to?
The thing before the journalists is not all of their meeting and not the longest part. It's usually intended to officially present results. So yes.
I'm also convinced Zelensky's look in a sweater and sneakers is always planned. You can't maintain that over a few years consistently if it really was a result of some tight schedule of a wartime leader or whatever. Such a person could be forgetting to shave sometimes, but not to the same degree every day, LOL. So those making fun of it are right, it's not that PR weren't important, it's really part of his job, not worse than Trump in any case, but he should put more effort.
You cannot come up with a reason for Zelenski to play along in this “scripted interview”,
It's usually scripted in this particular kind of situation. Why are you putting quotes here as if you were completely ignorant of the process and thinking I wrote something strange, I don't know. Diplomacy is a very ritualized part of reality.
Isn’t there a way simpler explanation here, given the two idiots he was sitting next to?
I gave you the simpler explanation, what I wrote is literally the simpler explanation!
Idiots don't raise to such power. Even Idi Amin and Bokassa and Gaddafi were not idiots.
That's the whole point, all three people in that video are very intelligent, if immoral. It's almost impossible for them to lack self-control enough to have a conflict before cameras.
For an idiot in power see Pashinyan, but I'm not convinced about him either.
I'm also convinced Zelensky's look in a sweater and sneakers is always planned.
Zelensky always wears army-like stuff (e.g. the shirts/sweaters are usually green) to show his connectedness to the people fighting war in Ukraine. Before the war, he did wear suits, e.g. see here.
I'm sure you're a Russian troll but if the wartime leader of Ukraine flew to Moscow right now he'd not even make it to the Kremlin before dissappearing. Europe would then condemn Russia for its actions (similar to when the Saudis made that journalist dissappear) and Ukraine would be in a ton of shit.
He didn't. He was the only adult there.
100%. I wish I ever could have been as proud of any of our presidents.
B-b-but he didn't wear a SUIT! The horror.
He did nothing wrong. Trump and Vance are comprised cowards. I'm sorry Ukraine.
He stood up to American traitors better than any American ever did.
There was one. He was 18 or 19. Over the summer.
I hope America makes a movie about him, with dramatic swelling music with a silouhette of him taking aim in the trailer.
He did nothing wrong. Trump and Vance were the ones who threw a tantrum because zelensky didn't immediately agree to their plan.
And they were pissed he didn't wear a suit 🤣
WTF was up with that guy?
That guy is Brian Glenn. He's a host on "Real America's Voice", a right-wing to far-right station and the boyfriend of Marjory Taylor Greene.
The attending "press" has been pre-selected and it's not a stretch to assume that these people know what's expected of them. The narrative is that not wearing a suit is a sign of disrespect. When Trump greeted Zelensky in the beginning he also made a remark about it.
Since I don't watch I can only presume that they give equal time to Musk's disrespect then, too.
Exactly, it was all a setup to push the narrative that Ukraine doesn't respect the Oval Office. Same reason Couch Fucker Vance kept saying "you haven't even said thank you once."
Which is a blatant lie because Zelensky has thanked the US many times.... But that was under Biden.
They wanted more thank you and possibly a genuflection.
Gross. Thanks for that info. Wtf, America.
They want it to considered purely as a business deal. Any reminder that Zelenskyy is leading a country that's fighting a war to defend their country from a dictator doesn't fit their narrative.
The only situation where Kash Patel would have had useful input!
Yeah, I though Zelensky did a decent job of managing his emotions. Most of us would have popped Trump in the mouth before that had ended. (And WTF was up with that guy asking if Zelensky owned a suit? That should have been an automatic throat punch.) Being an American is embarrassing right now. My apologies to the rest of the world. We're a dumpster fire.
His attire has been a talking point of the pro-Russians for quite some time. It's supposed to denote a lack of respect or something.
Yeah, just like they would complain if he did wear a suit. There's just no winning with these guys.
Every foreign dignitary who visits the White House should wear a tan suit just for fun.
The answer to the suit question should have been like, "Russia destroyed my suit and Ukraine's tailors are too busy sewing up wounds to spend time making a new one."
I think his actual reply was even better
It was SO GOOD! "I'll wear a costume after the war, maybe something like yours"
It’s funny because I’m sure he didn’t mean to be as snarky in that comment. “Costume” means “suit” in Ukrainian and Russian.
"Maybe something cheaper"
Subtle dig, I'm sure it went way over their head.
that dude is marjorie taylor green's husband
That really does explain a lot. People (and I use that term very loosely here) like that should be launched into orbit and fucking left there to think about what they've done.
The only person who did something wrong was Trump, supported by his deputy. They did not only verbally attack Ukraine (and, by doing so, Europe), Trump and Vance didn't even pretend to make a case for American interests, given Vance's complaint about Zelensky who thanked U.S. ammunition workers in Pennsylvania when he travelled there, because, in the new U.S. administration's view, this is seen as a support for the Democratic party.
The only positive thing is that the meeting was held in front of TV cameras so the world could witness the self-sabotage of the United States of America. A 'behind the scene' treachery would supposedly be much more harmful to Ukraine. The picture becomes more complete if we look that earlier this week, the U.S. had already voted at the United Nations against Ukraine, siding with Russia and China.
But now, the truth is out: The two men now holding the highest office in the White House are ready to sell the U.S. and its allies to the worst dictators on the globe, as Trump literally admires bad persons as he has been saying over and again. This is a signal the world has finally received. In Ukraine and Europe, but also in Taiwan, and the rest of the Asia-Pacific region, in Africa, in Latin America. It's a tough issue for Ukraine and the democratic world that must now reorganize.
But the toughest long-term challenge is already out for the U.S. Its allies' lost trust won't recover, and the world's dictators will pursue their own goals (maybe even more than ever). The United States are alone in a connected, globalized world. And this means that, with or without Trump at the helm, it'll become increasingly difficult to make America great again.
I am convinced that this is not what the majority of U.S. people want for their country.
[Edit typo.]
I'm worried America won't be alone for long. Other countries have fascists to deal with too.
If we resist them, we save the world. If we fail, the new world order will be Nazis everywhere.
They're not alone - they're already on Russia's side.
Yeah - Trump, Vance & their ghouls planned this and there is nothing Zelensky could have done except maybe selling off his country to the russians
the squishy stinky diaper was offering nothing. not a fucking god damn thing other than future betrayal...
a betrayal you know is coming, one that krasnov's been setting up for years now, and one that will forever tarnish relations between the u.s. and its long-time allies everywhere.
Just in case, "red" as in hair color is "рыжий" in Russian, so it would be Ryzhov.
I think that was a reference to this A former KGB officer alleged Donald Trump was enlisted by the KGB in 1987 and was given the codename "Krasnov".
Oh. OK, cool, I thought the "Soviet agent" thing was more against Biden (he was openly using his welcome in Moscow in his younger years) than against Trump, but covert connections are more meaningful than open connections.
Fat Donnie did this to make Zelenskyy look bad (LOL) and shame him into complying on the "art of the steal" by a bully. It was also a way to make a public excuse for not supporting Ukraine and siding with his actual employer, puny putin.
Imagine if Reagan could have lived long enough to see a republican steal his "make america great again" slogan, turn it into a cult, and then use that cult to be submissive to russia.
Takes a real shitbag to make Reagan look like the better option.
And I never thought I would se a President dumber than W. But the orange cancer sure blew that one away by 10,000,000 miles.
W. was certainly not the brightest bulb and unfortunately easily swayed by truly evil people around him (like Cheney), but I think as a president he always did what he thought was best for the country and its people. Trump only ever does what he thinks is best for himself.
Why the hell do liberals rehabilitate Bush like this? He invaded sovereign countries and began a 20 year long occupation, hundreds of thousands were killed in his wars, he also stripped away out civil liberties and conducted mass surveillance, indefinite detention without trial, and torture.
"Always did what he thought was best for the people" what an absolute load of horseshit. I guess it just so happened that what he thought was best was to ship people off to kill and be killed while he and his buddies got rich off it.
Like goddamn, what do I gotta do to get people carrying water for me like that? "Yeah I robbed a convenience store at gunpoint, which was bad, but you have to acknowledge that I was doing what I believed was best for the American people. It's not my fault, it's just all the people I chose to surround myself with who led me to do it." Where is your hate? You should want that motherfucker to hang!
I can always summarize my take on GW with that one time they ran a TV ad on how they added 2 new democracies to the olympic roster (I saw this fucking BS on CNN Europe live cca 2004 and it managed to make me fume even as a fairly apolitical young adult who then lived outside the US):
Besides getting a huge whipping from the International Olympic Committee for using the Olympics for political ads being illegal (so incredibly on brand) this also aged like milk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrE0eeQJEns
Holy shit, I never saw that. If I hadn't lived through it I'd think that ad was a parody. The fucking smugness of it, I stg, Bush makes me hope Hell is real.
Nah he started the Iraq invasion because dubya has daddy issues and wanted to stick it to his old man. Fuck outta here with “he did what he thought was best for the country”
Narrator: he didn't.
Trump managed to find a way to make me even more embarrassed for our country and angry at his douchebagness.
Zelenskyy has the strength Private Bonespurs will never possess.
I saw that Pz Zelenskyy also thanked America for hosting him, as if he'd been calmly met by a proper head of state.
It takes a special kind of statesman to be blindsided by two half-wit kids and harangued on TV and then treat it as if it was business as usual.
Remember that Pz Zelenskyy is not your typical politician: he's a comedian who won the seat. How is it that this Everyman is more a leader and a collaborator, and those two are clowns out of the slow car?
I've been watching Hacks, and one thing a good comedian learns is how to read a room and handle a heckler. Zelenskyy knew he couldn't just shut them down because of the power dynamics, but he also knew this wasn't going to play well for Trump with the rest of the room. He didn't back down and yet he didn't take the bait to give them any real excuse to pull US support. They exposed their Russian puppet-strings for the world to see.
It is because he is an Everyman. People who have lived among the ordinary folk, is much more likely to understand the world as it actually is. Dipshits like Trump and Elon never had to deal with bills or consequences, just the difficult decision of which supermodel to pork on a given day.
Here's hoping that the Free States of America gets a Zelensky.
Can I upvote you 1000 times?
It was an ambush. The only thing he did wrong was walk into it. Have to give him credit for being willing to take risks to save his country.
That is who he is..
Reminded me of a typical argument between me and my delusional, selfish, narcissistic parents as a teenager. Saying anything at all would make them throw a tantrum.
Trump and Vance did the same type of thing: expected complete fealty after they had voted against Ukraine to join NATO and demanded respect when the previous administration were the ones that did most of the work beforehand. Getting pouty and shouty when he didn’t agree to their shitty “deal.” Brought up meaningless arguments about “respect” and not saying thank you when he had multiple times. Utter madness.
This was about putting on a show for their constituents and they would have done the same if he went in there kissing their asses. But he refused to play the game which made them angrier.
Vance bringing up the conspiracy theory shit about Zelensky putting on a show for visitors as if he was exaggerating is what really set me off. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together saw right through this bullshit song and dance.
Yeah it was just bizarre... the "stupid president" helped you... so you need to thank me.
Well, he did try to play chess with a pigeon. I don't know what he was expecting, but at least he made Trump seem like an asshole and a fool.
He made Trump seem like an asshole yes. And that's why he's cooked . Trump is not going to support Ukraine going forward because Zelensky made him look bad. You have to appeal to the child to get anything from him.
There was no amount of flattery that was going to get Trump to oppose his Russian masters. The best thing Zelenskyy can do is make it clear that Trump is foolish for not backing Ukraine. It wins him points with European leaders who get to choose between backing Zelenskyy or following a fool and it increases the odds of getting a more favorable outlook from the US in 2-4 years as political tides shift (assuming the US continues holding a semblance of fair elections in the next 2-4 years)
He cannot get anything from Trump no matter what happens. Trump is beholden to Putin.
Nah, it's too late for that. Other leaders are starting learn this too. You keep giving in so Trump asks for more, and then more. Nothing will ever be enough for him.
This is no longer about swallowing your pride and appealing to his enormous ego.
As an American, he did not. I'm sure he felt like he was in bizarro land where he acts perfectly reasonable and everyone around him is fucking crazy. That's how all us non-MAGAts feel, too.
As an American I think he did…. He forgot to slap Trump in the face.
I understand why he didn't, obviously, but the whole time I watched that happen all I could think was, "PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE"
I assume he must have gone back to his hotel room afterwards and just screamed in frustration for a solid hour. Or had a workout of with a punching bag with Trump and Vance's faces on them.
I'm truly astounded at the patience he showed during that event. It was infuriating to watch.
Same.
We all know liberals would fall all over themselves to try and beat right wingers to the virtue signaling of insisting how bad they think it is.
damn truest shit ever said
Yeah doh! If we give you actually security guarantees how are we going to let Putin invite you again next year?
You can't have everything zelenski! We can, and we want, but you can't.
So all the European leaders are saying they stand with Ukraine. However that's nothing but "thoughts and prayers" until they bloody do something. Get some boots on the ground or planes in the air. Do something!
The European Leaders are just worse at marketing themselves, but they are doing considerably more
EU peacekeeps along the Belarus border. Free up Ukrainian units for the front line.
Nah bud, you good. It's the other jackasses in the meeting that were in the wrong.
Most Americans that watched it don't think he did anything wrong, either. Even a lot of conservatives think Trump's behavior was disgraceful.
Why is this the question people are asking? It's a classic example of Republicans setting the narrative. I saw on a certain oft-promoted news aggregator that all the Republican news sources use the same words in reaction to the oval office event - "Zelensky refuses to apologize..."
So now that's what the mainstream media talks about, instead of the worrying Trump-Vance-Musk turn towards Russia.
He told the truth. Normally that is fine, but not in a room with a despot like Trump. So yea, that's a big whoopsie when you are trying to get US aid from that despot. Zelensky is a great guy, and a terrible politician.
I think, or at least hope, that the downvotes come from people who don't understand what it means to "play the game". Politicians don't act the way we'd all like (i.e. telling Trump to go fuck himself) because it's not playing the game. Zelensky didn't go to that extreme, but didn't back down and capitulate either. I hope that when you say he's a terrible politician, you mean that positively to some degree; he didn't fully "play the game" with regards to Trump.
That being said, there's no winning here. There wasn't gonna be a negotiation there anyway, he was gonna get screwed no matter what.
Yes, zelensky was 100% correct and did the "right" thing, but he has an entire country to think about. Someone should gift him some Machiavelli books.
I don't see evidence that this was inevitable. I see that zelensky flew to the US specifically for this meeting then was argumentative throughout the 40 minute press event and I don't think he needed to be. Other leaders meeting with Trump lately have managed to manipulate him better with much less motivation and stakes to do so. I don't think he gained much more than clout, and lost a seat at a negotiating table to sell mineral rights for something.
Technically he's the first one to say something clearly out of protocol (of course Trump and Vance said a lot of irritating things), but countries don't break alliances over such things, and they've had a lot of time to discuss something without cameras, so it's simply a prepared scene.
I just don't know what's this supposed to illustrate. If it's a scene by Trump&Vance to "justify" drying out of military support, then why would Zelensky participate in it. If it's a scene by Zelensky, then what in the world would he gain by it. If it's a mutually agreed scene, then, again, see previous.
Zelensky is interested in public support.
There doesn't even have to be an agenda. It's a press meeting as a conclusion to talks. As elected leaders and/or representatives it makes sense to participate.
If he wouldn't have participated, how would that be better? They could still justify it - in even more of a vacuum to define their own views and spins. It would be worse.
Trump does the press conference before talks. Remember Justin Trudeau got caught on a hot mic for making fun of him for doing this.
The Agreement Zelenskyy was there to sign was never signed, because this all went down before that could happen.
I meant being rude too.
You have to remember that during Trump's first administration, there was a terrible U.S. ambassador who committed a hit-and-run in the UK, killing a cyclist. The victim’s family traveled to the U.S. to seek justice, hoping the president would revoke her diplomatic immunity since she had fled the country.
The moronic president, treating it like a reality TV stunt, had the ambassador unexpectedly pop into a meeting with the grieving family—on live TV—to say sorry. This is just how his broken brain operates.
Doesn't explain Zelensky playing along (I can't call his behavior anything else).
I think they do have some plan to which Zelensky consented (however reluctantly) and this was a "reality TV stunt" to make it appear plausible. Maybe to save Zelensky's face in Ukraine to have the same partner in negotiations after ceasefire and the new Ukrainian election (has been postponed for almost a year, but that can't go on indefinitely).
Or maybe yes. In any case this was unfitting.
What's happening is the US is negotiating with Russia without involving Ukraine. Not too dissimilar from European powers negotiating with Hitler over German claims on Czechoslovakia without Czechoslovakia being part of the negotiations. We know how that ended.
When Trump and Putin reach an agreement (without consideration for Ukraine) they make some bold claim similar to "Peace for our time" and expect everyone to go along with it. When that happens, Ukraine can ignore the agreement and continue fighting, but if too many countries buy Trump's version of "Peace for our time" then Ukraine could be considered the bad guy because they're not agreeing to end the war.
But after this? Every country in the world has reiterated their support for Ukraine. Any "peace plan" promoted by Trump will be known to be all about appeasing Putin and be rightly ignored by everyone. Trump's WWIII comment made it clear that Trump is afraid of Putin, nobody will respect anything he says about Ukraine going forward.
Putin is not Hitler. I'm not saying it's not a problem to be solved, having taken many lives and taking more, but it's a different problem.
Putin's regime is not capable of growing power. It's only capable of capturing more power. While ultimately similar inability made Nazis weak, they were capable of modernizing industries and rebuilding the military. Maybe if it were done slowly over 30 years instead of 5 years, they'd turn out a similar failure as Putin's Russia, having corrupted Germany enough to reduce its danger. We don't know, since they outright started killing people, putting them into prison camps and marching with knives on the streets.
That's not true, but suppose it were.
If all those countries sent soldiers and equipment to Ukraine, that is, declared war on Russia, it would be over.
If they are not doing this, then what they are actually doing is the degree of real support.
Then maybe Trump's "deal" just shows it.
I think enough conscripted Ukrainians have already died, and everyone talking against such deal, be it even capitulation, should wish for Americans, Canadians, Brits, French, Germans, Italians ... to be conscripted to that frontline to end the war. Or admit they just want some Ukrainians to die for their feeling of justice they have in their safe cozy life.
What are you talking about? NATO air power alone (even without the US) would absolutely demolish what's left of the Russian military. Why are you talking about conscription in NATO countries?
Besides that, if Russia had its way we'd all wind up being conscripted into Putin's army and sent into the meat grinder for the sake of his imperial ambitions.
I think you need to take a break from Russian state media for a few hours, you're currently living in a bizarro fantasy world and are unable to have a conversation with people living in the real world.
To replace similar with similar. Don't move the goalposts. Point is - in my opinion enough Ukrainians have died and every westerner who wants further fighting should protest for their country to enter war.
So where's that NATO air power? If it's nowhere to be seen, then Ukrainians better think what's better realistically for themselves, not try to entertain cowards.
WDYM Russia had its way, "its way" is to destroy a (half) Russian-speaking country near it so that Russians wouldn't see an alternative daily that doesn't live based on Soviet mob rules. Why would a regime built on selling resources want to conquer its buyers? Who are still its buyers indirectly and sometimes directly, that's why they are not entering war.
I think I'll do without your advice on anything at all, you are not intelligent enough. Russian state media is something I ignore since being 12.
Your comment has literally nothing to do with what I wrote because you are a coward and invent things to accuse me of.
Your country is not in war. Ukraine is in war and has suffered big human losses. Why are you not protesting for your country to enter war?
You cannot come up with a reason for Zelenski to play along in this "scripted interview", yet you're convinced it was actually planned? Isn't there a way simpler explanation here, given the two idiots he was sitting next to?
The thing before the journalists is not all of their meeting and not the longest part. It's usually intended to officially present results. So yes.
I'm also convinced Zelensky's look in a sweater and sneakers is always planned. You can't maintain that over a few years consistently if it really was a result of some tight schedule of a wartime leader or whatever. Such a person could be forgetting to shave sometimes, but not to the same degree every day, LOL. So those making fun of it are right, it's not that PR weren't important, it's really part of his job, not worse than Trump in any case, but he should put more effort.
It's usually scripted in this particular kind of situation. Why are you putting quotes here as if you were completely ignorant of the process and thinking I wrote something strange, I don't know. Diplomacy is a very ritualized part of reality.
I gave you the simpler explanation, what I wrote is literally the simpler explanation!
Idiots don't raise to such power. Even Idi Amin and Bokassa and Gaddafi were not idiots.
That's the whole point, all three people in that video are very intelligent, if immoral. It's almost impossible for them to lack self-control enough to have a conflict before cameras.
For an idiot in power see Pashinyan, but I'm not convinced about him either.
Zelensky always wears army-like stuff (e.g. the shirts/sweaters are usually green) to show his connectedness to the people fighting war in Ukraine. Before the war, he did wear suits, e.g. see here.
I know, but his shave can't be explained like this. OK. That's the point, it's just doesn't fit diplomatic etiquette.
I'm sure you're a Russian troll but if the wartime leader of Ukraine flew to Moscow right now he'd not even make it to the Kremlin before dissappearing. Europe would then condemn Russia for its actions (similar to when the Saudis made that journalist dissappear) and Ukraine would be in a ton of shit.
Washington is Moscow now.