With all this talk about sync's pricing...
I think now is a great time to remind everyone, like sync's developer, Lemmy's developers need to be paid too! The amount of time all the devs put into making lemmy exist, in my opinion, should be worth some of your money. If you can afford it, donating to the people who develop lemmy and/or the people keeping your home instance up will accelerate the incredible growth of lemmy!
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That's how things should work honestly. Those that can chip in, should. A beer every so often goes a long way. It's honestly something I barely notice in my finances too. This time it goes to something I believe in instead of a twitch sub lol.
Don't get me started on twitch subs. Supporting a creator you like is fine, but spending 100s of dollars on gift subs is so stupid.
Twitch looking at their top creators leaving for other platforms.
Increasing our revenue share, unilaterally, should fix this.
Eli5 gift subs?
Subs = subscriptions.
A sub on Twitch gives you a badge and special emojis on your subbed channel (streamer).
You also have the option to gift (randomly) 1, 5, 25, 50, 100 subs to random followers (users).
A sub costs $5 in the US, you can gift 100 subs ($500) if you want to.
"Supporting creators is fine, but supporting them more is so stupid"
Ok LUL.
My guess is they mean in the sense of "support creaters as you'd like, but don't throw all your money into it just for them to pay attention to you for a second"
Well then they probably should've said that instead of saying something unrelated to the point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is that what gift subs are? I’ve never understood that. Is it like a tip?
Subs are kinda like tip, except you get something in return. Usually its emotes you can use on any stream on twitch. Some streamers can make other stuff like sub only discord channel but its optional.
Gift subs are exactly the same except you give the benefits to some other chaters.
Yep! The developer of Connect for Lemmy is getting caffeinated on a regular basis by me. It's a perfect fit for the RIF gap in my heart. ;)
He/She(?) is doing an awesome job and it's amazing how far this app has come in just a few short weeks. I am trying to keep the dev motivated as much as possible, for sure!
My only gripe is that it's not open source, but that is OK.
"They"
I'm sure that everyone who was raging at Sync over the last few days, stating that all software should be FOSS have all made significant contributions to the Lemmy devs.
FOSS is pretty bloody great, and one of the greatest things about the modern IT industry. But FOSS doesn't pay a mortgage.
To be clear: I have contributed to Lemmy, and will likely pay a lifetime fee for Sync sooner or later.
I installed Sync, threw $16 LJ's way for putting in the work to convert it to work with Lemmy, and then uninstalled lol (commenting from Thunder). I plan on continuing to use FOSS clients for Fediverse stuff, but am happy there's a healthy variety of open and closed source clients for everyone to pick and choose from.
The rabid "it should be free" crowd here acts like we live in a post scarcity utopia where everything is roses and they deserve whatever they like on demand. The majority of users on this site wouldn't give a penny to help save their instance from dying.
Reality is that FOSS is basically never given donations (donate to your instance hosts people) and relying on donations is a guarantee that you'll run a charity at a loss.
Software development is hard work that only a small group of people know how to do (for now: I still hope it's like 50% of the population in the future but...) And to make independent software full time is a risky endeavor.
You'd have to be off your fucking gord to make FOSS software full time and expect to stay above the poverty line.
Good on you for supporting Sync and Lemmy. I do the same and plan to continue doing so... Cause I want the bad place to Digg it's own grave with their greed. But that'll only happen if we're crowd funding our FOSS.
OP: Please try and support instance admins and Lemmy devs
Sync fans in the comments: Yes, I bought Sync and love it
If all the big instances go away through lack of financial support, they're going to find out they paid $130 to swap Sync memes with the 3 people left.
And then the dev will probably pitch in funding to instances or host.
They might contribute to an existing instance sure, but I doubt they'd host. There's no real financial incentive for the profit driven to host a Lemmy instance unless they charge for membership and I doubt even Sync users are naive enough to pay twice for something.
Lemmy.ml is og instance hosted by lemmy devs
Who shutdown sign ups during the influx cause they couldn't handle it. So don't expect it to last if all the other instances fail.
Fair enough. That is what I meant for the record. It's just a business cost at that point.
This is what people said me that would not happens. But, I knew people will think by paying for Sync they will pay for Lemmy (devs and instances).
Ironic because it's literally the same situation that Reddit was going through that caused the migration to Lemmy in the first place
I left because of how reddit treated the 3rd part app Devs, suddenly forcing them to cancel subscriptions halfway through the year. (They could have given the Devs a heads up, but chose not to.) I left because of the libel that was being spread about a dev. For me, it wasn't that they wanted to charge money to use reddit, it's how they went about it that made me leave and not return.
Of course, they also forgot about blind people and moderating tools. They then kicked many mods for voicing their opinion and/or participating the blackout, even if the subreddit in question was in agreement with them.
I don't see Sync doing any of that, so please speak for yourself on why the migration happened.
Agree. The service needs money and if it's used hours a week... it may deserve some monthly cash.
But spez. Spez had to spez. I try not to click reddit answers on Google now. Someone else can get that traffic/click.
See it's funny because when I browse everything it's basically 50% memes from existing lemmy users about not liking sync.
Which would be massively relevant if I was talking about 'everything'. I'm talking about this post, so it's not.
How do you think I got here
I don't care
Y'all just seething bc others are enjoying things. This is just cringe. This is not a zero sum game. You can donate to lemmy devs/instance devs/fav. app devs and whatever else you like too.
And let's not pretend this is new. You could see a lot of memmy users being excited about their app too. I don't know what the hell they are talking about. But I'm glad they have an app they like that much.
Just. Let. People. Enjoy. Things.
i dont think theres anything wrong with sync enjoyers loving their app but i have to agree that the iap money would be better spent on actually keeping instances alive
This is such a bad take. By the same logic, the time you spend scrolling through Lemmy would have been better spent serving the homeless in the soup kitchen or sweeping the streets clean. But yet here you are. Why?
Let's face it, the "IAP money" you referred to has always been there, Sync dev found a way (and has the balls) to monetize his work to a pretty big extent. And only now are you all sour grapes about it. If Lemmy instances are so desperate for money why didn't they make an equally big effort to monetize? On the flip side, if money isn't such a big issue why do you care if Sync is monetizing?
The last I read, the instance was already fully-funded through the end of the year.
Why is the notion that the instance is going under something lemmings keep bringing up? Yes... I understand the model. But it is fully funded - or was. Why are people acting like the instance is about to fail?
Should we start rumors that the instance is about the fail? Or... are recent facts useful, here?
Yes, there are other instances, but the preponderance of Sync users joined lemmy.world.
Makes sense. No one is entitled to the labor of others.
Applies here, too.
If no one else is reading this, something is fishy with votes. No... not preoccupied with the vote. Preoccupied with what it may indicate. It is, as you've indicated, stale.
It's not either or. But I have now stopped donating because y'all can't get off this topic.
Hate the super-rich, not people with enough money left over at the month that they can afford a nicer way to interact with lemmy as intended - ad free.
That the server needs people with extra cash to support it is exceedingly valid. That's why I had been donating until literally 10 minutes ago.
I'm not subsidizing people who feel entitled to: Free shit Using free shit to tell others how they should spend (Acting like my money is theirs)
It's a simple boundaries issue that so many on Lemmy don't seem to comprehend.
When I stopped my donation, there was "other" then a box to say why. I filled it in. It's just one donation that stopped, but who knows, there could be more.
You stopped supporting the server you use because some other people (on different servers) commented about another topic entirely? I don't understand the logic behind that. Are you under the impression that someone posting from lemmy.ca is secretly the maintainer of lemmy.world? What's the logical connection here for you?
Thank you for asking and a thoughtful response.
I'm (hopefully obviously) not opposed to supporting lemmy.world or the devs. I don't expect free stuff.
I have run into more than a couple people who have needed to opine and troll because they have strong feeling about people enjoying Sync.
The lemmyverse has at least one starting point and maybe I'm still learning. What I see is a place begun in a somewhat communist, left leaning, pro-FOSS standpoint. I suspect that demographic is inclined to thought processes I can't grok.
I understand class resentment (I do; I'm not wealthy (at all)). I understand fatigue with people geeking out over an app that underwhelms a person of other tastes (or means).
That said, I see your distinction. One of the virtues of lemmy is that it's a loose federation. But people from a variety of servers have argued in poor faith (or just not seen what they're doing).
I expect disagreement. It's part of why I'm here: to hear well reasoned counter points and to learn. But it's difficult to say lemmy.world has been happy about the newcomers. That I've seen anyhow.
If making the point that allies are being alienated in ways that matter to us all, helps make a point that we could be friends, then I'll make that point.
I did end my subscribed support that would have outpaced my Sync spend within a year (you can math that). Lemmy, right now, has an unwelcoming vibe that's not even a little background. It is foreground. And problematic if this experiment is going to work.
all i said is better spent, not that you’re not allowed to spend money on sync; and you talk about it like you’re forced to pay to browse lemmy without ads when it’s sync that has ads and not lemmy?
Strange comment
I happily supported the dev. Just as I had happily supported the server.
OP mentions sync, you mention sync, I mention sync (eww thats crass), you mention sync... first line comments mention sync in frustrated tones. Are you going to lecture them too?
I know the misrepresent-and-fatigue strategy of argumentation and I'm not going to play. I've seen it a surprising amount here on Lemmy and you're doing it now.
If honesty or integrity don't mean a lot to you, I'd recommend turning over the soap box.
On topic, again: you, along with others, have persuaded me to cease donations but I don't retreat like you may hope.
This bastian of class resentment is going to have to adapt or close. If everyone here is what I'm seeing, I hope the person running the server has deep pockets. Or I guess everyone keeps instance hopping until everyone realizes it's not sustainable and instances aren't spun up.
I'm not wealthy, in the least, but I don't expect things for free. Lemmy has taught me I should. I'll apply that to the servers and development.
Womp womp
You're absolutely correct. Anyone can enjoy any app they like and either pay for it or not.
But coming into a thread about ways to ensure Lemmy gets the support it needs to develop and instances get the support they need to keep going to tell everyone how much you love your app is infantile.
Here's what OP said:
"With all this talk about Sync pricing...I think now is a great time to remind everyone, like sync’s developer, Lemmy’s developers need to be paid too! The amount of time all the devs put into making lemmy exist, in my opinion, should be worth some of your money. If you can afford it, donating to the people who develop lemmy and/or the people keeping your home instance up will accelerate the incredible growth of lemmy!"
How on Earth do you come to the conclusion that that is in any way calling Sync users out?
I have to assume you're referring to things I've said as it would be pretty stupid to expect me to be answerable for things other people have said.
So, you let me know where I've made any comments in the entire thread that are based on Sync being a for-profit app and my lectures about the desirability of FOSS purism and I'll be happy to talk about them.
Then why did you ask me to justify OP's post?
Then why did you try and make me answerable for what other people were saying?
It's pretty simple. You said:
And clearly expected me to have some sort of ownership of, or participation in, that lecturing. I then pointed out to you that I didn't believe I had either but if you could find an example of me doing so I'd be happy to talk about it.
Because it's not what I said. I said:
I'm not sure saying someone(s) coming into a thread which is nothing to do with Sync as a piece of software and proceeding to hijack it to be about Sync is infantile behaviour is directly equivalent to 'standing up for yourself is infantile'. They weren't standing up for themselves, they'd made an error in understanding what the thread was about and when informed what it was about got annoyed and asked why they 'couldn't just use what we want' or 'why do you care?' when as far as I can tell nobody (certainly not me) told them they couldn't use whatever app they wanted to, its simply not what this thread was about.
Sync dev wanting something worth for the all the work they're doing is fine imo. You can tell he put a lot of effort into the app.
The sync cult however seem to be as annoying as they were on reddit. They are like this when we discuss anything about sync's pricing even on non sync communities.
"I'm so happy I can buy sync again"
"Sync is the best"
"No other 3PA can compare to it in my experience"
This is one of the few times I feel like "nobody asked" applies.
Conversely, all the memes trying to shit on sync by people who never used it or even tried it, who asked?
right? "sync users never shut up"
meanwhile my feed:
edit: and three posts down:
we get it you don't like sync, I'm just trying to find content in an app i enjoy 🤷♂️
Ohh, that's mine. Sorry if my post annoyed you, i'm just trying my best adding content to lemmy. Funny enough, i'm really to throw money at ultra sub because i love reddit sync, but seeing the pricing and no regional price while the app still in beta state, i'd rather not, for now.
App is nice though, feels like home.
There is regional pricing though, look at the comments under posts about removing ads. Some are paying the equivalent of $15, others €18 to €23.
Pretty sure my region is where my Google account is set up rather than my instance, and I'm at the upper end of the prices I saw. Thanks for the head start in the wrong direction though.
lol it's all good 😁 I don't mind the posts at all
Personally I find both sides a bit grating, but moreso the anti-Sync crowd lol.
I used Sync for Reddit and paid for lifetime, but after a while I found that I liked Infinity better, so I switched. I'm now using Infinity for Lemmy and probably won't use Sync for Lemmy, but people who are using Sync (and paid for it)? Good for them. No need to tell them, "Haha you're a sucker for paying for something when there are free alternatives!!", you lose absolutely nothing by other people using Sync or other proprietary apps.
Let people use what they want, jfc.
Q on infinity, is it possible to hide/collapse comments? When I click on a comment, it just shows/hides the toolbar. That's what's stopping me from using at the moment.
On infinity a long press will collapse all comments replying to that comment. With the "Fully collapse comment" setting enabled (under Interface->comment) it will collapse that comment too. The setting "Swap tap and long press in comments" (under Gestures & buttons) will make it so tapping has that effect instead. In the comment toolbar, to the left of the save comment button there is an up arrow that also triggers the collapse of the comment.
Thank you!
Edit: back on infinity with this change :)
Damn these people being happy their favorite app is on Lemmy.
Seriously why do you care ?
Also, the reality is not that the sync cult is too vocal it's that they represent a solid chunk of the overall user base.
And also the fact that on Lemmy there is not much content as of now so minor things can become events.
I'm a bit salty about sync's pricing especially because I already bought the ads removal when sync was on reddit. And I feel like this is not a new code base so I should at least get a minor discount.
There are all kinds of sync users, stop oversimplifying things and spreading stereotypes. Just let people enjoy their few days of being happy they can browse Lemmy in their comfort zone.
This is very weird for me because I was very active on reddit for many years and was subscribed to the android and sync subreddits. Barely ever seen any comments or posts about sync. If you had a lot of interaction about sync on reddit, I have to believe it's because you were looking for that type of content. Or maybe you had a very narrow selection of subreddits. I don't know.
Not the person you were replying to but it does get a bit much when a thread isn't about Sync - like this one for example, which is trying to draw attention to funding Lemmy development and instance sustainability - and then it gets hit with people talking about how much they love Sync and they're happy to pay for it.
You realize this branch started with someone adding 0 content about supporting the server or lemmy?
I'm not sure if this is your first time using threaded conversation based software but that's really not how a thread works.
This is what I see in Jerboa.
Is that not the first response to OP on this branch?
Please see my previous response.
Is this a point about using the word, "branch."
Or you pointing out that conversation organically drifts? Or something else?
Again this is organic. A large influx of sync users started being active on Lemmy. It will fade out in a matter of days.
I understand the sentiment but honestly feel like people are creating unnecessary drama. This is just a temporary trend just like we had days and days of beans meme which was also mildly annoying after 5/6 days.
True, drama hits everywhere, but it can easily be avoided in a post about the importance of supporting lemmy development and instance sustainability by not going on that post to comment how much you personally love a for-profit app. Or any app in fact.
My guy go read the threads title
My guy read the actual post.
They are both the submission. Unfortunately OP made sync's cost part of the topic and the pivot point into a reasonable ask.
Headlines matter and cannot be completely separated from the entirety of the message.
Y'know, most people are capable of nuance and ascertaining meaning from context.
Hmm, I'm not sure how much I actually do. It's mostly these posts coming to my feed automatically and this is like the main lemmy topic today.
Hmm, maybe I shouldn't actually have called them a cult after thinking through more. But I do find some of what they do annoying like what I mentioned before.
Sync was mostly drama free but there were two things I noticed on reddit.
Sometimes when free version users come to troubleshoot an issue, premium users would try to convince them to buy the pro version to support the developer without offering a solution(most likely because they can't offer a solution). I was in many different third party apps and this was absurd to me. I don't recall seeing anything like this in any of the other third party app subreddits. A reason behind this might be the large userbase. Sync has a much larger userbase than most third party android apps. Also, sync dev and the moderators were chill. It was just comments from random users.
The developer once released a major update which many old time users didn't like. They raged to the point that the sync dev took a pretty long break to the point people were wondering if sync was abandoned or not. Even his own moderators lost contact with him. I wasn't even subscribed to the sync subreddit when this happened and l learned of it like a few weeks or maybe a month or two later from I think r/androidapps or a similar subreddit where people were discussing their favourite third party apps.
So, nope. Sync isn't drama free completely and my selection of subreddits definitely weren't narrow(I had to make multiple custom feeds at the end).
I want to add again that I'm satisfied with the sync dev's work and decision. It's not wrong to want to profit from your work.
I am in the similar boat. I feel that I left reddit in solidarity with the 3rd party app developers. And, I was expecting the price to reflect some discount for the people who left in solidarity.
I also feel that ad removal is a in principle as most people on lemmy would be using tools to already block ads. I am willing to pay, but I am hardly inconvenienced by the ads.
And right there is the problem. I bought sync for reddit so why should I have to pay for lemmy. I mean the developer had to do work to rewrite for the lemmy api.
The second bad take lmao. Is this actually from lemmy?
Welp, that was something to read
Yes, most people are dumb
Did somebody asked your opinion?
No. But here we are. Reading about the "sync cult" whatever that is.
So.. Let's extend that courtesy to everyone, all right?
Because a "nobody asked about your opinion" stance is a sure fire way to end any discussion platform. Like lemmy.
What I do think that Mr. Dawson should do is direct a percentage of that sweet sync income at lemmy.world and the lemmy devs. That would end or at least lessen this discussion.
I'd normally agree. I don't really like when someone responds with "nobody asked" to me or someone else.
But I really don't think a comment such as "I'm glad I can buy sync again" is appropriate for posts such as this. OP came to remind us to donate to lemmy devs as one of the main topics of lemmy is about sync now. The OP and the users who clicked this post didn't come to see comments like those from those specific sync users.
As for calling them a cult, I apologize for that.
Again, I also agree "nobody asked" isn't really a healthy way to proceed but those comments really do feel irrelevant. I have no idea what their purpose is here.
No need to apologise for anything bud, this is the Internet where Linus rants daily! We all do!
I understand you're fed up with all the sync bs. I just think we have to try to turn this in/to a way everybody gets better from it.
The reddit refugees are happy because "this feels just like home", they(we) don't care it's 20 bucks!
The og Foss crowd grumpingly :) accepts the higher amount of contributions which stems from that. (this is the point we've to drive home to ljdawson(sync dev)
And we all benefit because the fediverse grows and keeps growing, more content, more everything. Shiny beautiful future, end to war and world hunger, beginning of a new era where humanity reaches for the stars or dies because of a rogue AI or because of a runaway greenhouse effect.
Wait. No, not those last ones. It should have a happy ending.
Anyway: Everybody is happy. More or less. :) *for a while. *
I had to search for what MAGA is.
Make America great again?
I'm not american.
No one asked.
So what is lemmy then?
I call it, "subscription fatigue".
Work bought me an iPad. It was my first foray into iOS.
I'm not sure what the app store was like before, but I couldn't find a single app that didn't have a subscription plan. Even a simple SSH client built using open source libraries wants $6.00/mo.
I totally understand why people groan and do a face palm any time they see yet another app wanting to charge them monthly, hoping that once there you'll forget that you've subscribed.
The only reason that I paid for Sync is that I've seen the dev interactions and their dedication to the project. I would never ever pay for a software subscription from any of the big players. For a single person setup, I'm more than happy to do it. I donate to my favorite podcasts and my favorite designers from Thingiverse.
Late stage capitalism and the rent-seeking economy sucks. But becoming accustomed to individuals paying other individuals is one of the things we're going to have to do to make it suck less.
From the developer's point of view, subscription makes more sense as people benefit from continual development and updates, and the dev continually gets paid for their time.
I paid $1 or $2 for sync pro like 9 years ago and back then, it took a lot to get me to pay for apps. The more I use the app, the more I got for my money per hour spent using the all. But the more work the dev did after he got my money, the less he gets paid for his labor, per hour.
Nowadays, $1-2 feels like a steal for an app, especially for a one time payment. I haven't paid for ad-free or ultra yet, but I intend to because he's shown a long history of listening to his user base and updating/fixing things in a timely manner, which that type of service also is something I value as a customer, even if it isn't a tangible benefit.
I'm one of those with subscription fatigue but that's not a problem with sync because you don't have to subscribe. You can just pay the one time ad-free option and that's all right with me. I honestly don't know what's going on with the vitriol against sync on lemmy. I think most people don't realise that nobody needs to subscribe to sync, you can use it for free with ads OR you pay the one time fee and have it ads free forever without the other subscription features.
Termius?
I might pay for their subscription if it was like $2 a year. Cloud sync is not worth $120 a year.
I only really need it when I'm transferring devices. Oddly enough, they also seem to give you a free one week trial whenever you do so.
I get that they're targeting enterprise customers, but they could just charge a smaller fee for individuals and go hard on companies who are skirting the rules.
I don't subscribe as a rule these days.Subscription fatigue is a real thing but I do make one time payments to regularly used services or apps across the year. I guess it's like tipping in that respect, I do it when I feel I should.
For Sync, the subscription seemed steep for an app for a platform I'm still only starting to use and don't use anywhere near Reddit levels (by design I might add) plus the one time payment seems similarly steep. I bought the pro for Reddit about 2 years before Reddit went full ham and was ready to spend the £8 of Google credit I have on it again if it turned out I used it/lemmy more than I do.
The issue I found is that feeding that back on anything like this hit the cult wall and you just get a lot of angry posting about you being cheap or just use the ads etc. Hell, you can see the same posts even in this thread which is only tangentially related to that whole quagmire. I had hoped that lemmy would be less vitriolic and more discussion based even on these kinds of things but I guess people are just tribalistic regardless.
I agree that subscription fatigue is a huge thing, and I avoid services as a rule of thumb unless there are real reasons for the subscription, ie ongoing usage based costs.
That said, I view $2 a month as a reasonable subscription cost, and if Reddit had charged that I would have happily paid it to keep bacon reader. It's only the one time payment cost that is very steep ($99).
I chip in $5/mo for lemmy.world to help pay to keep it ad free and running
Yeah i think cult mentality is the problem. If someone doesn't want to pay or cannot pay, it's their choice/circumstances. If they don't like sync's pricing and wanna stick to FOSS apps, it's their choice. I don't like to see people pushing around others for their choice of what they think is the best.
Good bloody grief! How did a reminder to support Lemmy devs and hosts get hijacked by Sync fans? Sync is a completely different topic.
Yeah, maybe shouldn't have mentioned sync in my post. I was just doing as a joke though.
It’s a fine segue. I’m just surprised at how many people jumped at the chance to talk about a different topic and ignore your actual message.
Thanks for the reminder, BTW. As soon as I find a permanent home, I’ll add them to the donations list.
Wait wait, what is segue ?? 😂 in my language it means "a wanking session" lmao
LOL! That's... disturbing... in this case. Funny image, though. And perhaps appropriate given how excited Sync makes some of its users. ;>
It means a smooth transition from one thing to another. In this case, using Sync to introduce the discussion about supporting devs and instances.
It means transition in English 😅
Pronounced the same as Segway. link to hear it
Thanks TIL
What a peculiar coincidence...
You are? It's quite the hot topic right now.
Sync users are annoyed getting blasted with FOSS this and that. Other client users do not need to ridicule Sync fans. Or behave like houlier than thou and teach Sync users how to spend rheir money.
They are free to stay closed-source proprietary but prople have the right to voice their opinions.
That is not holier than thou.
The title literally references Sync...if it didn't, your point would be stronger but I understand the spirit.
It does, but only as a contrast to point out that others in the ecosystem also deserve support. OP's post is literally a reminder that, without devs and hosts, Sync would have no reason to exist. It's about the devs and hosts.
It appears to be hijacked by FOSS fans from what I see.
All I know is I'm already sick of this anti-FOSS users narrative.
I don't even get how someone can be anti-foss. I feel like it's a necessity until a critical mass adopts the platform.
We must be looking at different threads, unless Sync is FOSS.
The difference is that some users have been using sync for a decade and using Lemmy for only a month. So it's a lot easier to mentally justify supporting a developer who you've been benefiting from for so long.
I have also donated to my local instance, I really hope to see it all grow together.
Reddit has benefitted from Sync, and other 3rd party apps, way more than Sync has benefitted from Reddit.
It's less clear cut with Lemmy, which is supposed to evolve an ecosystem of free tools, so it might be that some day Sync will be benefitting from Lemmy more than Lemmy from Sync... but for now, Lemmy is relatively bare bones, like what Reddit used to be 15 years ago, so any 3rd party app with extra features is still a good thing.
Fortunately, Lemmy has no incentive to go closed source, like Reddit did (let's not forget Reddit used to be open source while it was convenient for them, then it wasn't).
Sync is $20 to remove ads no? Where is it $100?
Update: nevermind I see it here for sync ultra
The 100$ is very much a premium tier with nice to have features. The ad free version is around 20$, which is still steep but you're paying for lifetime ads.
You don't need to pay for that, just go to Reddit. Free unlimited lifetime ads! 😉
Can you not post from Sync presently?
Yeah, no posting yet. That's my big issue with Sync on Lemmy so far. Monetization was implemented and there were multiple price increases all before some of the most basic features of Lemmy are even on the app. When everything else is already fully functional and free, it just becomes a harder sell than it was on Reddit.
One change I'd recommend is some sort of "Pay what you want" option for a subscription. If he did a minimum of $2 a month, it would be about the same cost but would make users feel like they have more agency over how much they pay. While I'm sure many people would just pay the minimum, giving users more choice will just lead to people who want to chip in more. We've all paid $5 for a humble bundle, but I'm sure a few of us have also chipped in $100 if it was the right charity or cause.
Yeah, the pricing doesn't match the available feature. I feel like if he price it accordingly to the release and the set of feature, it will fare much better. Like right now he could price it lower, then later on when in full release, raise the price, and then after a while raise the price again.
"Coming Soon" is what pops up at the bottom.
You can comment, just not post
Right. I should have clarified. You can't create a post in a community yet.
Lemmy dev also has a Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/dessalines
Personally, I think the app is absolutely fine without paying for the subscription. I really don't see too many ads. I get an average of one ad for every two refreshes of the feed when scrolling through, and none of them have been obtrusive. It's certainly night and day when compared to the ads in the official Reddit app.
You don't have to explain if you can't! Don't feel bad. Supporting yourself should definitely come first. Hope you are doing alright.
Like every open source projects, you can donate with money or your time. Both are equally valuable. Promoting the project, helping new users, heck, even being pleasant and help fostering positive environment in the fediverse so new users feel welcomed is actually very valuable (especially given current reputation of fediverse citizens being especially harsh to new users).
I don't get where this reputation came from? I've had more positive interactions on Lemmy in the last month than I had on Reddit in the last 10 years, literally. I feel like this is the internet equivalent of Iceland, everyone must think it is a frozen hellscape, but then you get here and it is actually a really nice place to be.
To add to this, it can even be as simple as reporting bugs you find, whether that be with the Lemmy code itself or a client you're using.
And that's totally fine. That's the beauty of the internet, not everybody has to pitch in, and if you can't you shouldn't feel bad about it. There was a time when I was a starving college student and was doing the five finger discount on a very regular basis. We're glad you're here regardless.
My egalitarian FOSS is showing lol
Yeah, I do wish there was some form of regional pricing going on. Doesn't seem to be the case if the prices I'm seeing in my (also third world) country are anything to go by.
You're absolutely right, major brain fart on my part to assume that's what the person I responded to meant
According to his update I believe he'll be working on regional prices this week
FYI if you still want to show support, librepay allows you to give a "symbolic donation" of just $0.01 a week, or $0.52 a year
The people who develop lemmy get paid to do so, as stated by iirc Dessalines themselves.
I would put donating to those running instances at the highest priority, because without servers, we have nothing.
That grant is coming to an end, if it hasn't already.
They get paid from an NLnet grant, but it's only for specific features (not bug fixing) and it's not a living wage
It's more than €10 unless it's on a raspberry pi. Lemmy.world is over €100
from just the memory numbers last time i saw server graphs, it's gotta be at least an order of magnitude more than that.
Iirc it was €180 about for the EPYC host. That was months ago but it had headroom.
How to prevent it from becoming a Wikipedia situation then with server owners begging for money constantly?
Accept the instance owners will be forced to turn to shittier methods of income, like ads.
Spreading the load over many small instances will likely prevent this. It can be quite cheap to host lemmy well, but everything is expensive when you scale up 1000x
This is my biggest problem with it. I have no issue with Sync charging. I have an issue with Sync charging and not passing anything on to the developers of Lemmy.
My instance's owner has a Patreon. I give there. I definitely recommend that others do the same.
Is it just me or does Sync's pricing seem... Exorbitantly high?
It is. The Lemmy instance owners and the devs aren't even making a dime off the platform.
That said, the decision to pay is still ultimately up to the user. If you feel it's too pricey, then there's Liftoff, which is a perfectly fine app in itself. Others are okay with it or even better if regional pricing is launched.
I'm currently running infinity, seems OK... There's still a handful of features I'd like.
I am definitely not going to run Sync with adverts and I'm not paying the amount they're asking, neither am I going to go with subscription based.
If sync halved their ad free version, I'd probably pull the trigger - failing that, I'll eventually just hack up their client and remove the ads myself.
Exorbitant is the right word. A subscription model for a UI enhancement app is pretty ridiculous no matter what the price. Likewise, $20 to remove ads is absurd. A much more reasonable approach would be to charge upgrade fees to pay the dev for continued development as Lemmy evolves.
By contrast Tasker, an app that provides serious Android customization & script capabilities that enable users to enhance their entire Android experience, costs just $3.50.
As a long time Sync for Reddit user I planned to buy the Sync for Lemmy app but noped on out of there when I saw the pricing.
IMO the dev is trying to quickly replace his lost Sync for Reddit revenue before the Lemmy user base has grown enough to make that possible with reasonable pricing. Good for him that many of you are willing to pay what he's asking, but I'll be sticking with some of the other excellent apps available right now.
Infinity for Lemmy works really well despite its early development status: https://codeberg.org/Bazsalanszky/Infinity-For-Lemmy/releases
Based on the other comments, I definitely don't think you're alone.
The person that runs my home instance appears to be from Ohio, I don't think I can sanction that buffoonery. /s
I'll kick some money towards them once I get bills for the month sorted.
Found the Michigander, unless there are other states that also like to banter toward Ohio.
/fellow Michigander
Iowa actually, Ohio banter is becoming somewhat universal I think. A different flavor of the Florida man meme.
LJ reading through this thread
I'm new to lemmy. What's a home instance?
Sync is making it so I don't need to think think hard. Makes head go ouchie.
It's like email, I have yahoo, you have gmail, your grandma has aol. Each is their "home" instance but they can all talk to each other. They're not in a walled garden and can only talk to themselves like whatsapp or reddit or twitter etc. Fediverse is an open platform and lemmy is a reddit-like part of it. Mastodon is a twitter-like part of it. Sync does do a great job, no need to make head go ouchie.
Much thanks. Me smart!
I'm new here also but I think it's the instance where you registered your account in. For example lemmy.world.
Registered your account in, yes, but more importantly - which home instance you're logged into at that particular moment.
There are three donation options on that page, LiberaPay, Patreon and OpenCollective. Which one take the least amount of fee from the donated money?
They've mentioned they prefer liberapay
Opencollective has PayPal ☝🏻 Best choice for me
Ended up using opencollective as well because of Paypal. But using credit card seems to have a bit lower fee than Paypal. Maybe I'll use that for the next donation.
Using Credit card with other currencies than euros, my bank charges me fees. PayPal does not, that's why I always prefer PayPal
I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it threw me off how short the donation list over $10 is and how many people donate on Patreon (obviously not the only way to donate). Thanks for the donation information!
Because people are cheap and don't like paying for online stuff. Then they complain about ads. How do people think this stuff works fairy dust and unicorn farts.
I don't think it's fair to call people cheap when I'm constantly seeing stuff about how much people are struggling financially. If people had more money to spare they'd care less about throwing it at random things.
I dunno, paying less than $10 is more than enough, definitely more than you could make from ads per person. And the reality is that not many people can afford to throw $10+ on every single online service.
If anything, it might be doable if you could pay, say, $50 and distribute that between everything based on your usage. But then service providers don't really want that either, they'd rather take all that just for themselves than share with others.
Yeah that sounds about right.
It's also possible to use the free version and just deal with ads. If you want lemmy to thrive, then sync is exactly the sort of thing we need (it's the only reason I'm here after the final death of RIF)
So abrasive. What you said is not in competition with the parent comment, so why the "no"? You mean to say "yes and" because we need both user engagement and longevity.
I haven't looked too deeply into the financing (recent migrant from Reddit). But would like to find out more.
Is Lemmy / Fediverse run like the Wikimedia Foundation?
Is current financing supporting the paid work and growth of servers etc?
What is considered a fair regular donation? Should I donate to Iemmy.org and the instance I have joined - lemmy.world? I would be happy to know what others here are contributing.
Thanks!
Thanks for the links and info! How much are people donating on average?
I'll throw some money in!
Done! 😁
What is that link and who are those people? How do I find out who runs lemmy.world and how do I donate to them?
Lemmy donation https://join-lemmy.org/donate
Lemmy Instance patreon https://www.patreon.com/mastodonworld
Is it true that purchases from sync for reddit don't carry over to sync for lemmy? I don't know how anyone could possibly justify a lifetime purchase if so.
I thought the fuss was because of the apparent tracking, not the fact that it's a paid app?
It is absolutely blowing my mind how insular some people are. 'just let me use Sync', 'I just want to access Lemmy in my favourite app', 'who asked you for your opinion?'
It's like they don't know that the API their app accesses was built by a couple of guys or that the data their app consumes is paid for by people running that software. And then they get uppity when you point out to them that maybe a thread pointing out it might be a good idea to support those people isn't the place for them to tell everyone how much they love Sync.
After the way Lemmy responded, and there were absolute children making the biggest splashes, then any reference to, "well, got cash, please pay." hits as another dig. I don't think that was OPs intent and I didn't read it that way.
But the absolute conniption that lemmy had did not endear the new, moneyed participants (some) in the way I think you'd hope.
It was juvenile. Days ago I set up a subscription support for lemmy.world. I know how it works. I wouldn't be surprised that others did too.
Here's my proposal: Lemmy isn't the 30 most vocal anti-sync people Sync users aren't all the ones you see posting in frustration.
Passive aggressive "they" style comments are some of the stunted maturity acts I've seen here.
Say what you mean, mean what you say, but reflect before pressing the button.
When we geeked out, lemmy brought wheelbarrows of shit to dump on the elation. This is where we are.
Conciliation would help on all sides. But let's not pretend there's a background that makes both "sides" more reasonable.
If you want to use Sync, be my guest, I'm glad you've found an app you like. I genuinely don't care what app anyone uses. Also, if you want to share your love of an app with others, feel free to do that too.
But - and try to hear this - hijacking a thread which is about making sure Lemmy gets developed (without which your app won't work) and supporting instances (without which your app won't work) to say how much you love your app is beyond crass.
Interesting response because I was responding to you making the topic Sync.
It's right up there.
Just be honest. It's okay. But don't pretend I made sync the topic. Or that I didn't discuss donating to the lemmy world server (or that I
doused to).I think, however, I'll stay on lemmy.world but stop the donations. It looks like I'm indifferent to its success given the lack of integrity or serious commentators.
For all those concerned with how i spend my money, I found a way to save some.
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not being evasive or dismissive, I genuinely have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
For me, the fuss, in this thread is about Sync users inexplicable need to jump into a thread about supporting Lemmy development and keeping instances afloat with comments about how much they love Sync.
That was my bigger issue along with the GDPR compliance. The dev has said that clicking do not consent turns off consent but we've all see sites and apps where "legitimate interest" is skipped when you remove consent. That and the data that's collected seems a bit opaque. Now, I know these types of advertising platforms are often drop in solutions so it's possible the Dev just doesn't know that side. That being said they should be aware of these things when on a heavily FOSS skewed platform like this. The Dev seems responsive so I imagine this will all be smoothed out in future.
I support already on Patreon 👍
what's the lemmy patreon? i tried searching and didn't find anything?
that'd be a convenient way for me to kick in a few bucks a month, but i'd want to make sure the money's going somewhere worthwhile.
Help me here... What is the story about sync's pricing?
The story is basically that it's a really nice looking app, but $20 to remove the ads is a little steep comparatively. They also have subscription options which rub me the wrong way. Those are just my opinions though. If it was the only app available I would probably be much more vocal but the fact is there are dozens of other apps and more in development so it's not that big of a deal.
Its pricing seems unreasonable to a lot of people. Without premium you get ads which is why I have Infinity
The user interface is pretty nice though
Very true
And if you want to do both: my instance is a commercial one, part of the suite of services that provided by Communick. I'm pledging to give 20% of any eventual profits to the teams of the projects that I host there.
The plans are really cheap, and they get even cheaper if you purchase a "group package".
With all the talk about the big instances not managing to keep up with the influx of users, I'd ask you to consider joining or spreading the word about my work and what I am proposing as alternative model for a sustainable growth of the Fediverse.
That got a lot longer than I expected :)
Thank you, but I guess that the fans from lemmy.world are not too happy about it. It's being downvoted like crazy.
I get that cash is a hot topic, but leveraging off Sync (even if coded) makes Sync the topic.
For now, that's a polarizing topic.
Thank you for the suggestion. I will do so. :)
Interesting approach, could be a good solution for some of the issues mentioned in this thread.
I'm disabled and on a fixed income. I make less than minimum wage. The only thing I have to contribute are my occasional keen thoughts, but if you need me to leave, I can. I get that a lot.
I won't be buying or using Sync, as its pricing is prohibitive and ads sometimes include malware.
I don't think OP is suggesting this. It's simply a reminder to those who have the privilege of having extra income that contributing to the core devs improves the experience for everyone, regardless of their individual ability to contribute.
I'm personally happy to donate if it means everyone gets to continue enjoying the growth of the platform, as the real value of the threadiverse is user activity.
Source? That's a pretty serious accusation.
None other than the FBI: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221?=8324278624
TIL that the FBI recommends using an ad blocker.
I believe the post above yours is missing a semicolon or perhaps a clarification, so it should read something like:
While I'm all for using an ad-blocker, I don't think you have to worry too much about Google Ads containing malware, particularly if you don't click through.
AFAIK Google has pretty strict restrictions around the type and format of ads they will push and ad campaigns have to get approval before being activated.
So while I do strongly feel that everyone should be using an ad-blocker, I don't think malicious ads are of particular concern coming from Google's ad platform, on an android device.
I'm not English native and I often see Google ads in my language. Many of them are of very low quality and some ads connect to phishing links, weird apps or cover contents. I don't think Google strictly restrict them..
Kinda reminds me of spez not wanting third-party apps.
But also reminds me capitalism rapes like Cosby.
I'd rather give to lemmy as a whole. I'd maybe spend 2-3$ one time pay for unlimited updates and use of a sm app.
It's like people just can't shut up about this now. Jfc.
Suck it nerd.
My question is, why are people waiting until now to say you can donate to Lemmy devs? I haven't seen it discussed at all, anywhere, until someone released an app where they're asking for optional payments
Most instances also have donation links in the sidebar too
If the sync dev would be fair and not greedy, he would give at least the 2/3 of his revenues from the app to the Lemmy devs and the instances. Otherwise, I guess instances should be able to block these apps.
I understand everyone need to earn something. And keeping max 1/3 is good.
People need to understand and in priority the people coming from Reddit that Lemmy is not reddit. Reddit earns money with ads and investors. They could inject ads through the APIs and states in the usage terms that 3rd party devs could not remove them. They didn't do it.
Lemmy is a complet other story. Lemmy rely on donations. So, when someone donates to the Lemmy devs and/or instances, the dev of a paid app is making money on this donation. Without the Lemmy devs and the instances, the paid app would not exist at all. It's not fair at all to not share the revenue of these apps.
These paid apps and their devs are at best predators and at least parasitics.
if you're not greedy you would pay lemmy dev, and whatever lemmy app you use
Relying on the donation of others to the Lemmy dev and instances to make profits is way more greedy. It is even parasitic on one side.
People not donating is a thing but they don't make profits. It's a huge difference on the greedy scale.
This whole comment is ridiculous. People are happy to pay for a better experience (for them). You can do/say whatever you want. So can I. So can he. Things in the world aren't free. There is a continual narrative that everything should be FOSS. In a perfect world: sure. In our world we need money to live.
I'm happy to pay for the ad free version of sync. And happy that the profits go to the app maker to do whatever he wants.
Making up fractions like 1/3 is useless and arbitrary at best. You have no idea how much he makes or even what 1/3 would mean.
Edit: If instances block these apps, it defeats the purpose of an open fediverse. .. also sounds just like reddit.
Did I write that? I explicitly wrote he can keep 1/3. It doesn't make it free at all, knowing the other 2/3 going to the Lemmy devs and instances. Nothing is free in this model. It's about the fairness.
1/3 isn't arbitrary. You have 3 parties here, the app dev, the lemmy devs and the lemmy instances. The first relies entirely on the second and the third, who are in a donation model. Without these two, the first is at best useless, therefore giving 2/3 to the other parties is fine. Cutting the revenues of the app in 3 for each party is fair.
If I understand right, the lemmy devs are already paid to develop lemmy full time. I don't fully understand the arrangements or who's paying them though.
Not quite. This is from their OpenCollective Page:
"Lemmy is entirely open source and funded exclusively by donations. The maintainers dessalines and nutomic have been working on it full time for the past years thanks to generous support by the NLnet foundation. Now that this support is coming to an end, the project is increasingly relying on donations from individual users to fund development. Your donation allows the developers to fully focus on making Lemmy better for everyone."
NLNet was sponsoring Lemmy for about 1500 euro per month according to dessalines: https://github.com/LemmyNet/joinlemmy-site/blob/main/src/assets/news/2023-06-17%20-%20Update%20from%20Lemmy%20after%20the%20Reddit%20blackout.md
Edit: I was wrong, it's 45000 euro total, split into several payment milestones: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/hezuy1/nlnet_funding_and_lemmy_070_with_new_image_hosting/
https://nlnet.nl/project/Lemmy/
Why did NLnet sponsor the development for years, and now when Lemmy is successful, they stop sponsoring it?
What was the goal of the sponsorship?
The https://nlnet.nl/project/Lemmy/ link goes on about how the internet is preditory today and big tech exploits users, and then at the end:
Yeah ok, so why stop sponsoring the solution?
NLnet paid them for every feature they launched, but with the explosive growth, they've been focusing on refactoring the codebase and making it more scalable, which doesn't count as a "feature" I guess.
Reminds me of the corporate idea of software where new features are more important than quality.
It's like having a garden where you just spread new plants out and ignore the ones that don't feel good where they are.
NLnet offer grants so I would assume when they sponsor a project its for a fixed term, either in time or stage of development or amount of money.
Seems like throwing away money.
I think users aren't smart enough to donate to the Lemmy devs, not enough money at least.
They will donate to apps and even instance owners, but not to the people who make the actual software we are all using.
NLnet aren't crystal clear but I think they see their role as getting something up and running rather than continued funding, which is fair enough. Trying to support a multitude of projects indefinitely isn't really feasible. At some point I feel it's justified to ask users of the project (i.e. us) to support future work.
Lemmy needs at least 3 more years of funding... It just got off the ground here.
I think if people don't donate, this will turn into open source worked on by volunteers, which means a much slower pace.
I absolutely agree, whilst I do monthly donate to .world, I donate more to Lemmy devs at the moment as it 's at a crucial stage of development and financial support is imperative right now. I just don't think NLnet are set up to offer that sort of grant system.
The problem is both the devs and instances need donations. Just saw a post one instances bills are $2300 a month. No on is going to pay that out of pocket.
Oh boy, the last time I heard about finances (a month ago) it was all well below $100. Lemmy.ml only costed something like €10 a month.
Yeah it's better to keep instance size within your budget.
But with so many users on Lemmy.world, donations could maybe work. Problem is that it's not a fixed income, but the bills are fixed every month.
Last I checked, the Sopuli admin said that running his instance cost pocket change, $20-30 a month. That might have been before the explosive growth though.
I do think he had a donate link to buy them coffee though.
Lemmy devs are commies, they don't need capitalist money.
They live in a capitalistic society.
They can always move.
Potato brain take
"Don't make me tap the sign"
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat
Heh, if only we could leave the concept of money by moving to some country where it doesn't exist.
If we had space travel, I would get off this rock and go somewhere else. Unfortunately we are stuck here.
So now, somehow, money became a capitalist concept?
A turnip and a potato is all they need.
I just subbed to Sync, I love how it works and the little I can support the dev I am happy to. But yes not everyone is in the same boat.
You may have misunderstood, I was saying along with supporting the sync dev, the backend that powers sync was made by very different developers. Their work powers lemmy as a whole. If you can, you can support them by donating using this link: join-lemmy.org/donate
They can get paid, but $20 for lifetime ad removal, and $130+ sync ultra whatever it's called?
That's not beer money like another commenter said, that's fraud and stealing money for barely anything to give for it.
I should go check on my admin lol
Calling it fraud and stealing money is uncool. People aren't being forced to use the app or pay for the subscription. Let people spend their own money however they see fit.
You can’t be serious lol
You know you don’t have to use it right?
He made on of the best Reddit apps ever. Supported his app for like 10 years.
20 is nothing.
Oh yeah $20 is fine albeit a bit too much for ad removal but fine
What I really have gripes with is the $130+ ultra thing. I saw that and noped the fuck outta that app and uninstalled it as quickly as I installed it.
It also doesn't help that when I bought sync pro it was equivalent to or less than $10 and now he wants $20 for a basic ad removal? He's greedy.
Dude, you don't have to buy ultra. It's for people who want bonus features and support the dev.
This is like refusing to buy a Volkswagen because they also make Lamborghinis
Then don't put it in the app. Simple as that.
It's 2023, we're really debating over pricing in a FOSS Android app that just so happens to host a website/forum that just got popular only because people don't like the other main big internet forum?
What? Just because you don't want to pay doesn't mean no one else does.
Also sync isn't FOSS
Literally nobody would pay over $100 for an app.
And no but the service is.
Ok you go make sync then
Idiotic take
How is it fraud ?