Which password manager to use?
I currently use KeepassXC that is synced through NextCloud. The sync isn't very elegant, especially on my phone. So I'm looking for a new password manager, which has a native server sync support that I can self host. What do y'all recommend? I need at least a phone app and a browser integration that can autofill.
Bitwarden
Never looked back.
Have you tried syncthing? It works great with keepassxc.
Vaultwarden is pretty easy to self host.
+1 for Keepass + Syncthing. Free, no cloud, always synced.
Yeah this is me. It's been just perfect for many years now.
This is faultless for me
Which one? Or both?
Actually keepassdx, and sounding syncthing
Have been using it for 2+ years with 3 devices, no problem
Bitwarden is excellent and the paid plan is very reasonable unlike with others.
Vaultwarden works really well for me.
For native sync, the two good and reputable alternatives are Bitwarden and Proton Pass
2nding the Bitwarden, absolutely love it. I moved from LastPass years ago and never looked back.
3rded moving from LastPass to Bitwarden and never looking back. I got out when LogMeIn got in.
Bitwarden.
My recommendation: Don't use Vaultwarden (self hostable server side of bitwarden. Really easy to run and use). Why? You're not a security personal, and securing your vault isn't your job. You might do a slight mistake that'll lead to the compromise of your vault.
The people at Bitwarden have their work dedicated to securing the vaults and all they do is security. And they'll probably do it better then you. When it comes to serious matter, I prefer to trust the professionals.
Doesn't the server just hold an encrypted vault? What could go wrong when the server is compromised? Just thinking out loud I don't know the answer
Security is also about backups. 3 Replicas 2 Formats 1 Offsite location
Yep, that's right. In theory you could share the encrypted DB with the public and not degrade security. (Still don't do that though...)
I just don't want any unauthorized persons anywhere near my vaults in general. I also see my vault as a critical service that requires high availability, and I know enough about system administration to know that my network and I are not qualified to provide that.
Let's say I have an unupdated patch and my server is now vulnerable.
This could really happen. I have work and life to worry about and I might not notice.
This vulnerability, could be in the BW instance itself (say the web server or the backend itself), or in the server itself (say an old OpenSSH version), or another service (NextCloud instance hosted in the same server under a different subdomain).
So, first we see it's a big attack surface. In any of those entrances an attacker could gain access to my server and with it the vault. It's a short way from there to install a keylogger on the website where BW is hosted, and get my master password ¯_(ツ)_/¯.
Now take into consideration that I just sat a couple of minutes to think about this, and I'm not a professional in cyber security or web security. Neither blue nor red team. A professional, with more knowledge, time, experience and resources, could probably bring up much more things.
I would just put a server on the internet with only the bitwarden ports open to the internet. And put the server in its own isolated environment. With automatic updates I would be comfortable with this. Even if for any reason the isolated server gets compromised, the server is mostly a glorified sync server.
Just to play devils advocate. Bitwarden.com is a much more valuable target. My instance is behind a VPN. I think its actually far more likely Bitwarden will have a breach similar to LastPass then I will. But I agree with you mostly.
The data stored on Bitwarden's servers is completely encrypted though, which means a breach will not yield useful data, unlike the plain text storage for LastPass.
I have the ability to selfhost BW so I am interested in counterpoints.
Yes I agree. I was just offering a counter to the statement that Vaultwarden isnt as safe as Bitwarden. They both are encrypted but my vaultwarden instance is a lot less likely to experience a breach than Bitwarden. The guys with real skill are going after Bitwarden not me.
Ignoring the security aspect of it Bitwarden is responsible for hosting a fault tolerant, highly available web app.
They have redundant networking, redundant servers, load balancers, redundant databases.
While you could host this yourself to these tolerances it's work and it's not free.
If you're using your password manager to the fullest you have a different password for every resource out there. It's more than a minor inconvenience if you get locked out of your passwords.
Their service is dirt cheap and it's absolutely worth every penny.
I use KeepassXC on desktop, KeepassDX on my phone and keep it all synced with Syncthing. Works great
This is the way.
KeePassXC. Despite a lot of room for improvement, overall it is pretty powerful & you don't have to host a server. You can also sync your password file to cloud storage. With VaultWarden, it will store a cache of your passwords on your phone but you wont' be able to update them away from home unless you also setup port forwarding, dynamic DNS, web server & all that.
https://www.passwordstore.org/
I also use Unix pass and self host a git repo over Tailscale to keep it synced across devices. Works like a charm so long as I remember to push whenever I edit a password somewhere.
One of the big flaws of snapshot-based VCSs like get is the patch order mattering—which causes conflicts. I would love to see an alternative built on Darcs or Pijul with their Patch Theory-based VCS system that does not have the flaws Git does.
Yeah agreed. I borked my repo a couple times and needed to rollback changes, re-sync everything, and resubmit changes. It was a bit scary, but that’s also kind of the beauty of the system, is it’s just files in a folder. I could move the conflicting files out, do a push/pull and then move the files back in and push. The biggest part is getting in the habit of doing a pull before I make any local changes on a device.
I haven’t heard of the tools you mentioned, but you’ve got me curious, so I’ll definitely be looking into them and a potential fix. I’m sure I could automate things with some simple scripting, but until I make my final move off iOS I’m sort of stuck with the clunky Unix Pass app on that OS which causes most of my issues.
Presumably you could just target the passwordstore folder with any version control, Unix Pass just has some git interaction built in.
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/passwords/
Big fan of Keeppass + syncing program of choice. It has served me well for years. If you don't like nextcloud pick a different syncing app.
I like to use SyncThing for my keepass vault. Imo it's about as simple and elegant as it can get without involving third party services.
I know you're asking for an integrated sync but this has been flawless for me and only rarely notice a delay between machines including android, linux, and windows (less that 30s in any case)
Good thing the KeepassXC can be used as a 2nd factor authenticator, though it has TOTP only, doesn't offer HOTP.
Keepass2android should be able to handle nextcloud sync from within the app so that might work better than on device sync. If your done with keepass bitwarden or proton pass are common alternatives
I haven't seen it mentioned here so I'll throw it out there - 1Password. It's just a very smooth experience that I really appreciate.
Got a free family subscription through my work. Before that I was paying for it.
1Password is just great. Wonderful Linux support (desktop app, cli client, identity agent for SSH).
The major update to version 8 was rolled out to Linux first, actually.
One of the few pieces of software where you feel that the developers care about their product.
Agreed. The experience is so easy and well integrated that it has been trivial to get my whole family on it. Being open source would be very nice though. That lack of transparency due to closed source is my only real gripe with it.
They are closed source, but their white papers are very good
1Password is the only one I found that I can share with the family, syncs changes practically instantly, and actually detects login fields on every platform I use it on (Android, Windows, Linux).
There’s a lot of arguments for one solution or the other based on security or privacy, but let me present a different scenario:
Imagine you’re in a natural disaster. Your home based self hosted server is down because of a general rolling network outage or just irrecoverably destroyed. Your offsite on the other side of the county is in a similar state. Can your cloud hosted backup be accessed at generic, public computer in a shelter or public building?
Bitwarden can. It has specific instructions for doing so as safely as possible.
If you can't self host --> KeePass If you can self host --> Vaultwarden
Really I don't know, surely a bit less but in my opinion, not that much
I'm not completely sure, but doesn't Bitwarden encrypt all data before it reaches the server? That means the server implementation is a bit less important. I guess you probably don't want to be leaking even encrypted databases though since there is a chance they could be cracked.
Most here won’t like this answer. 1Password.
I’ve used it for years and it just works well for me. Finally convinced my spouse to also use it a couple of years ago. Switching is not an option since it took years of convincing to make that happen.
Hackers have increased their focus on cracking password managers by extracting data from RAM and registry, compromising local and cloud storage. 25% is a threefold increase compared to the previous year's figures.
Selfhosted VaultWarden with Bitwarden browser apps and KeyGuard on my phone, which I like better than the Bitwarden app.
Correct me if I'm wrong: if something happens to your vaultwarden instance, aren't you at risk of losing everything? I do use bitwarden, but I could never self host it. Too important. ID rather use keepass with syncthing so that more than one of my devices have my passwords
I also self host Vault Warden. I have my vault automatically exported to Google Drive as an encrypted copy. So worst case I can download from there, and import it to a new password manager or another Bitwarden instance if my server borks.
Since I started using a password manager, I've basically forgoten every one of my other passwords. I wouldn't be able to log in to my drive
Same here. But the bitwarden apps have a local copy of the vault. So you can always prevent them from syncing and use it to get the password. Assuming you have your phone still.
You can always have an offsite copy of the vault on a HDD somewhere. It'll be outdated, but at least it'll have the Google account. :)
Maybe. Why do you self host it? I'm not saying there are no benefits. I just think it's not worth it
Bitwarden has features I wanted and was better than the browser password manager I used previously. I already selfhost other apps so adding another one wasn't an issue. Plus it's free.
That's what backups are for. No matter what solution I use, I would need backups. I used to use LastPass, but that just relied on LastPass to do the backups. I backup the database, but you can also periodically export the data and back that up somewhere securely on your own if you want it in a different format.
If you're on Android I had seen a better UX for synching with the client Keepass2droid than with KeepassXC or KeepassDX.
On iOS maybe try Keepassium.
KeePassXC doesn't have an official client, does it? Also, KeePassDX has a better UI IMO, is updated much more frequently & is on Fdroid.
I was sure that KeePassXC had an Android client but it seems like my memory tricked me. I do prefer the overall UX of KeePassDX but when I tried several Android KeePass clients during the pandemic I remember that KePass2Droid had an easier Nextcloud sync setup than what KeePassDX offered.
I do the exact same thing as OP with KeepassDX at work and works pretty nice so far, since I gave KeepassDX the right acces rights on the nextxloud directory.
What diferences have you figured out so far with Keepass2android in comparison ?
Easier to setup sync for noobs, however this was years ago maybe it has changed since on DX
I used to be a rabid advocate of self hosting password managers, and was switching between Vaultwarden and KeepassXC every few months. But Proton offered a lifetime subscription to Proton Pass with unlimited Simple login aliases, and I bought it now use this exclusively.
Proton pass if general UX and speed are important to you. Bitwarden if amount of features is important to you