UnitedHealthcare Value Drops $41.6 Billion in Week After CEO Brian Thompson’s Slaying.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unitedhealthcare-value-drops-41-6-232000467.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world784
Comments144https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unitedhealthcare-value-drops-41-6-232000467.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
Not nearly enough.
So let’s watch the denial rate at major insurance companies to see if it goes down.
Luigi’s trial will still be going on probably. I’m betting he’s going to drag it out as long as possible. His family is rich and influential so the trial is going to be a shit show, I hope.
And once we see a sudden (temporary) drop in denial rates, we can shit all over insurance executives again next quarter.
And the quarter after that when the denial rates sneak back up again.
Let’s just say I am really excited about shitting on that crew a lot.
She should email back that Brian Thompson personally approved her mammogram and that they should check with him.
Oh that would send me into gales of laughter.
"Why would we, he's not a doctor, he only denies, doctors approve"
She's also free to get an appointment in another country. Here's the pricing for uninsured patients in a hospital in my country. What she needs is:
It can get pretty expensive here too without insurance (which you can get by having a job, or having a <3yo kid, or being retired, or being disabled, or being unemployed but registering so you're officially looking for a job). Major surgeries will cost thousands of euros. But simple procedures that should be cheap, are cheap.
life expectancy and denial rates are now like KPI for me. these lines should be going up kinda like stock market, since this is all about "efficiency"
Yeah, it’s pure schadenfreude. But I am seriously coming around to the idea that shit-posting is a serious political tool. So I am planning my meme strategy around the release of these numbers.
This subject has the right emotional content to keep this issue in the public consciousness. Ever hear of ‘social peace’? Not for these shit heads.
this is definitely a moment of unity. while issue is bigger than healthcare. healthcare can be the rallying topic and improving just health care would a big W.
social peace is elites' job to maintain but they are not interested in that.
Let the memes flow. It's a quick and memorable way to convey information and good one spread like wildfire so you are absolutely correct on that. Keep up the good work!
Always has been. Now we can do it easier with the Internet and making up your own proof. Wasn't only a few people that produced most of the political memes for in 2016? I think I remember reading that.
Hey look the Lemmy Ceo's are looking to ban users informing other users about jury nullification because apparently that's hate speech in Germany or some stupid bullshit.
What is jury nullification? I would like to know more ;)
It's when a jury decides the person charged did commit the crime, but they for what ever reason thinks under the circumstances, he should be acquitted anyways. When you do hear about it, it's often in the context of some parent being acquitted for murdering a pedophile, that interfered with the killers kids.
First I’ve read that his family has money. That’s really encouraging.
Yeah apparently Baltimore country club types. People magazine has already done a thing on them.
And now's their chance to prove that what's most important to them is what's right rather than how they look to others at the country club
Allegedly mom is collaborating with the pigs...
I will with hold the commentry out of respect for Luigi...
Rats tho
Do you have a source or what to query, because when I plug in "Kathleen Mangione" all I get is they she reported her son missing.
Yes but have you considered that line goes down? Line must never go down so further cuts must be made to ensure line goes up next quarter.
Or the idiotic "open enrollment" period. Can't believe they only let us change health insurance once a year.
WTF‽
I am proud to be an American, where at least I know I am free 🤡
🎶 Ain't that America? Home of the fee, baby! 🎶
Freedom is just another word for "nothing left to lose".
Unless you got a baby. Like you need to be in an accident that will take 9 months to conclude....say you're the only female astronaut going to the space station for a weekend on a Boeing starliner spacecraft but it starts leaking helium. What would you do if you suddenly needed to pay for inter spacial health care but open enrollment was a month ago? I don't known what, but I'd start gathering tungsten parts from around the craft and I'd take some spacewalks at strategic times to loose said parts straight on to -toss has censored this part- and the car would roll down the hill in American movie style and we'd be laughing! Wait what about a baby! You could get pregnant in space and then you could sign up!...the baby, not you.
??
I don't know what substances were involved in writing that post. Mind sharing, @werefreeatlast? :P
their subscriber numbers will dwindle down to shit. they are as good as having no insurance at all
How many of their customers actually chose them? Most people get insurance through their job
The business do also have to choose. Companies will often act like whatever insurance they have is the only option to them, but really they choose the insurance provider. Which means, especially in small businesses, if everyone is pissed about their shitty insurance, it can be changed. Unfortunately that means there is a gap between cause and effect, but there can be an effect.
Hopefully that name becomes mud to the point where people hear United and recoil. It is, after all, a benefit that is suppose to attract talent, if it isn't doing that, something will change.
Their claim denial rate is probably "good" for the share price. Less claim payouts equals more money equals more shareholder value. Morbid, isn't it?
Oh no, the imaginary number is going down. Whatever shall we do?
Sure fed but we don't violate ToS around here!
And if Americans really did have the ability to shop around for the health insurance they wouldn't need in a sane country in this first place, this might be a good thing.
As it is, anyone with UHC (like my family) will end up paying a higher premium.
Rates for 2025 are set already.
You can't switch next cycle like the rest of people prolly gonna do?
Which "rest of people" get a choice of insurance providers from their employer?
Or do you mean pay a hell of a lot more for a plan the employer isn't offering?
fair point, well tell your employer to switch, also tell your coworkers.
you are deff on point that they will extract to punish for this. but staying with them is a bad business decision unless your employer is getting kick backs.
Big companies will switch if the rates justify it, it's a yearly bidding war, and quite annoying when you have to change insurance cards and even a different provider because of things beyond your control. Healthcare should be nationalized and not tied to employment for so many reasons.
Has that ever worked for you? Have you only worked in small businesses or something?
If things were that simple, the CEO wouldn't have been assassinated in the first place.
i know they deff switch providers if they care to ever "save" money
Yeah, okay. The CEO will be very happy to see some random low-level peon about which insurance company ConHugeCo uses.
I'm thinking you're not actually in the U.S. at this point if you think that's how anything works.
Health insurance costs the company money too, it's why United was so popular, it's cheaper for the company. If they raise their rates, the company has to foot part of that bill. Normally 50+% is covered by your employer. That's why it is so much cheaper to get insurance through your company than going market. So if United raises rates by 25%, your employer is as pissed as you are. What your employer might not care about(if you are in a big company) is things like denial rates or employee experience.
I am sorry UHC customers will have to suffer as result of other customers ditching UHC.
Sounds like your workplace should unionize.
Not saying it would be easy nor quick but it would be a lot more effective than berating people on the internet who agree with you.
I did not berate the person you are defending, a person who has apparently been trolling people all over Lemmy and even got banned from c/news a month ago for it. And had their last post in this thread deleted for trolling.
They have quite the interesting modlog history as well.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=8160047
I don't even know what goes on anymore. I've had good health insurance in the USA for years (I'm a trucker) but have not had health insurance in Canada for 7 years (because I'm a trucker of no fixed address and health care is provincial, i pay income taxes to an entity that issues my driver's license but denies i live there when it comes to my health insurance) My american health insurance doesn't give two shits where i live. My drivers license is to a post office box near my employer of 7 years. I'm literally homeless but consistently pay taxes and reside in one county in one province with a steady employer but i just won't lie so i don;t have "canadian" health insurance, which is never been my "birthright as a Canadian" like muttonhead socialists talk about, it's always been provincially determined while the federal government pretends it wasn't something that happened despite their resistance, when provincials had balls and thought of themselves as their region, not canadians.
What point are trying to make?
American health insurance is better than Canadian because you don't have fixed residency?
no, try again. the point was more than clear.
What you meant might have been clear to you...
Wait, so what happens if an American gets sick in Canada?
The smart ones make sure their insurance covers international travel, same as I did.
Right, but let's say you don't. Let's say you're only in Canada for a day and you get hit by a truck. What happens in terms of their medical system and what you have to pay?
as a tourist, with no health insurance, full billing but it'll be actual at cost, not the inflated number used down south for the hospital company and insurance companies to argue over. Broken leg, say, probably set you back 5000 Canadian depending. Similar to the states at final billing.
Interesting. Thanks.
Why are healthcare denials sent to and shouldered by patients? If you go to an in network facility, that place is vetted by insurer. So why isn't a 'denial' a matter between the provider and the insurer and transparent to the patient?
Why are there networks, health insurance companies, co-payments, payment disputes/ negotiations of prices, and people suffering from not receiving medical care?
Oh yeah, because this way it costs us significantly more and we can think we are doing better than others in life by acquiring a job where we have linked medical coverage too.
The fact that there are "classes" of healthcare is just repulsive.
You sound like a socialist! WAGTATSGHEHDHDHEHDHDHDHHX
Banana bread at work?
"value", it should be a service that is focused on servicing and have no value at all.
Fidelity, vanguard and blackrock are major shareholders of the UHC
That's code for the owner class along with some boomer 401ks
That's likely most 401ks. They're a very large company so they're going to be in just about every stock market index fund available. The classic advice for 401ks is to use index funds because their fees are so much lower than managed funds, and you can follow your portfolio by following the S&P 500 instead of having to worry about what particular stocks a fund manager picked.
Fund managers also tend to do worse than the market more generally, because a lot of them are really bad at their jobs.
Still worth 490 Billion.
That's 1,000$ for every American.
1.3k akshually
Taxes dude
Fine...
Luigi, I can forgive a lot, but shareholder value... How could you, man?
How am I supposed to tell my kids about his when they are back from the character building camp I sent them to where they were hunting lesser human beings for sport in an eastern European country I won't name? This is really going to crush their big, delicate hearts...
Pff, peasant, sending your children off to some far ofd shithole. Shell out some real money and I'm pretty sure you can find some human hunting grounds within the U S of A. Turn it into family bonding time like a good father.
Hey!!! DON'T YOU DARE call it a far off shithole!!!! That is the place were I get the underaged nannies that I get pregnant from! These are the undocumented mothers of some of the children I don't care about as much as my "on the books" kids, but they have my DNA - so have some fucking respect!
Actually, I sense a little jealously as you've probably realized that I can/will be able to farm all of these tier 2 children's organs eventually to extend the life of my pure A-tier family. Green does not look good on you, buddy!
Boy the new and old media are having a thesaurus day with the word "killed".
I guess unalived isn't popular anymore.
How could Brian do this to the shareholders?
Too bad they will make damn sure this doesn't hurt the shareholders but the people themselves.
Health care insurance should be handled by governments, or alternatively by law by non profit foundations
Some would argue that should be the case for all companies.
Imagine how much better for profit companies would function if they didn't have investors skimming off their profits.
For profit companies should be illegal.
Have you ever worked in government?
Getting the simplest shit done takes forever.
By contrast, getting things done in a private company is quick as hell by comparison.
I wouldn’t say government bodies “function better” in my experience.
All that said, healthcare is one thing I’d definitely like to see handled by the gov rather than privatized.
I said nonprofit. NGO. As in non government organization.
Sorry. I misattributed the government piece to you instead of one further comment up.
I can’t say I have any experience with NGOs to make a determination on that for myself.
I do have experience with NGOs. The only issue with them is that capitalism doesn't allow ethical business to thrive.
If for profit companies were outlawed, they'd function much better
You're argument here is quantity over quality - "these people kill a lot of other people with those decisions, sure... but they make those heavy decisions lightly and quickly and often with an algorithm! That FEELS impressive to me because I'm a toddler that responds to kinetic stimulus for the sake of it and I can't see any nuance!"
Also, part of what you're talking about is by design - Republicans shoot their constituents in the feet so those people can then have foot pain to complain about. Then, when complaining gets vocal, the gop politicians come in and say "we need to just get government away from your feet and they'll be less painful" ---- They are the "government" that shot you and you are the constituent with a hole in your foot.
So whine about government being slow some more.
But the quality isn’t good either.
When I worked in government I was surrounded by people who fucking sucked at their jobs. And why try any harder to get better? They were basically un-fireable. They could come in, do jack shit all day, and collect their paycheck.
So, no, it’s not an argument for quantity over quality. In my experience, both are better in private industry.
My experience is based heavily in IT, for context.
However, I do not believe it is the case that private industry is always the answer, as I stated earlier.
Have you ever worked in government?
Yes, and speaking to quality in this case is not about individual performances, it's about overall quality of outcome. Are you familiar with Pareto?
Stop fixating on Janice in accounting scrolling facebook and how you feel slighted by her or Derek in operations who shows up 30 minutes late to meetings. The bigger machine on government side works most of the time, with transparent accountability, on that side, in the case of insurance, it emotionlessly kills people for profit on the other.
I’m focused on outcomes. I just think individual performance contributes to those overall outcomes.
I’ve seen millions in wasted IT equipment that never got used due to incompetence. Old ass equipment that sticks around far past its expiration which turns into an emergency to replace when it finally starts breaking hard.
In my current position I work directly with the US government and I actively try to get them to run more efficiently, reliably and cheaply. They literally don’t give a fuck. It’s like talking to a wall.
I’ve seen far less of that in the private sector.
Also, your fixation here is on pennies and not dollars. Large systems account for waste and allow for less precise action. They do that because they know that enables less logistical slowdown on average and overall they will be more successful in big picture.
As you grow, you'll learn to focus on broad strategy and not get lost in fixation on individual tactics. Set good policy and allow people room within to figure it out - without a bummer of a nag in middle management meandering around trying to save pennies at the cost of dollars to justify their existence.
For profit companies is capitalism and like it or not, it is by far the most successful way of doing things. It's so successful bthst it isn't even a contest.
What you need it capitalism with a boat load of restrictions to keep it fair. Restrict companies in size and revenue. Get to 5000 employees? That's it, you can't hire anymore. Get to X amount of yearly revenue? Taxes on anything above that gonto 100%. Companies cannot buy other companies. Limit what can be invested and how. Limit the powers of special interest groups created by companies. This way there will not be one big player, companies will actually have to compete. You get the power of capitalism without the bad parts. Now use the proceedings of that power capital to fund a good socialist framework that gives free education, free healthcare for all, free minimums like housing, food, etc.
What's your fitness function for "success"? Killing all life on earth? Then, yes, I'd agree with you.
But if your fitness function is "to deliver necessary goods and services to customers to satisfy their needs without causing mass extinction", then--no--capitalism isn't very successful
Usually, things handled by governments suck in orthogonal ways to private companies. Private companies suck due to greed. State owned stuff sucks due to incompetence.
Where I live, we have a state owned insurance company, but others are allowed to compete with it. Optimistically, they competing with each other making all of them better. Pessimistically, you choose the one that sucks least from your point of view. Either way, better than any proposed alternative.
Right. Because healthcare in other countries like Canada, the UK, and European countries are so terribly run compared to US healthcare.
So you are afraid of it being too good? Sure, most countries are better than the US...
I am literally explaining how it works in some European countries.
I agree with you, but I see it as governments should make the rules, based off what science tells them is best, companies themln implement those rules.
The US government needs to add a shit tonne of rules for companies to stop the unchecked growth and abuse and if it would do that, life would get better for everyone.
Unfortunately we now have trump so if you live in the US then you have my sympathies. Or actually, you don't. You failed and got trump tonshit over the entire world, so you don't have my sympathies. You should have stopped him
Again, I explicitly stated I live in a country where we have a government run insurance company in addition to private ones. People can register with whichever they like and send to paperwork to their employer, who pays their insurance (or government if unemployed).
Of course, what they have to cover at minimum is also heavily regulated.
As for other types of companies and rules, that is a long and nuanced discussion that is off-topic here.
If Luigi has shorted the company with some leverage, he might now be incredibly wealthy
Pumping bullets into executives is my fav way to pump & dump.
Yeah, but I guess he forgot to dump (the firearm)
Seems there would be a case against for insider trading.
Now even the poor can get away with insider trading using crypto. Not that anyone should start doing do this professionally. 😇
Are you referring to betting sites like Polymarket? Or just like generally creating shit coins to pump and dump?
DeFi pegged to stocks that allows for anonymous trading.
Oh right I had forgotten that was a thing.
are you saying in the USA they organize their health care around the stock market?
It's called being civilized
Here's some "" that fell off your post.
I think they were hanging around the word civilized.
Indeed.
Whoosh
Not in civilized parts of the world.
The stock market is a measure of how much wealth can be stolen from workers and, in the case of insurance, from the insurance policyholders. So the stock price going down means that shareholders expect less of that than before.
It worked! This is a valid tactic.
fucking lol. someone get the new ceo.
We need a George Soros who would pay off private security companies who you know these CEOs pay very poorly to look the other way when they reach a quiet dark not very populated destination.
At that point, just bribe one of the security team members to do it and smaller bribes for everyone else on the security team to not see it.
Is anyone else getting United Healthcare ads in their Gmail promotions tab? Seemed a little tone deaf.
Edit A word.
I stepped away from that creepy shit when I noticed just how awful Google (search) and Gmail have become, a complete contrast to how it was originally. Now it's Fastmail and Duckduckgo, and everything is so much cleaner.
How do we get it even lower?
Start with the next CEO.
Say what you want about him, but the last CEO "made a difference". Just not in the way that smug punchable asshole intended.
checks fidelity
....naaaaaaah
lower
Think of the shareholders you monsters! Only they matter! Not the patients. Duh; Businesses pay huge premiums to insure their employees, can’t have that money being used for the good of the people it’s meant to help.
Well why would a peasant keep any surplus value of their labor?
Unfortunately, this is only a temporary oscillation and they will soon recover and everyone will forget what happened. The damage must be done to the political structure that allows these companies to exist as they are
And we need more heroes like Muad'dib to remind us of that and to lead the charge.
Fucking A for some fucking A, this will probably sting them more than the death of their last CEO.
I'm sure premiums won't go up drastically next year.
Tighten the noose, you'll see more squirming
Is that like tightening the belt, but for CEOs?
More like health execs and the greater corporate world holding people in a noose, making life worse and worse, and eventually the people strike back.
Good, let it crash and burn and let it not be the only one
Free healthcare for all US citizens!
Elder CEO mentoring prodigy, "that's why you need state of the art security, if one of the plebs goes and murders you the shareholders will suffer in their quest for never ending profits"
That is the only thing that gets their attention.
So... *checks math*, just 13 more? That's achievable. Let's do this.
....until it goes right back up in [insert timeframe]
Will we never learn?? Make it stick!! Take more action!! Please let this be the spark
So far...
Insurance companies are worthless.
Doesn't matter what you think really though, right? These businesses operate on measurable KPIs and if overall thresholds weren't being hit, something would happen.
If you were a manager with that attitude, you'd be a micro manager and we all know that that type of manager, in any sector, SUCKS.
I've checked UnitedHealth and CVS, both are down about 10% for the week. Good time to buy some UNH and CVS
Bet you also invest in private prisons
I didn't even know they existed but thanks for the tip
When they were paid for holding kids in cages there was a small protest in boca raton close to where I worked.
Police outnumbered a few young adults with banners two to one.
No one could walk from the train across buildings because 'security'.
A absolut shit show of PR and competency.
Buy?
If this goes right these companies should be out of business
If what goes right?
Future insurance industry "adjustments."