GOP senator introduces bill to legally erase transgender people
cross-posted from: https://beehaw.org/post/17202407
Sen. Roger Marshall (R-KS) introduced a bill this week to legally erase transgender people, entitled the “Defining Male and Female Act of 2024.” He claimed that the bill will stop what he called the Biden administration’s attempt to “replace biological sex with dangerous radical gender ideology.”
The bill is a long list of terms and definitions, where words like “father” and “girl” are defined with the words “male” and “female.” Those two words are then defined as “an individual who naturally has, had, will have, or would have, but for a congenital anomaly or intentional or unintentional disruption, the reproductive system that at some point produces, transports and utilizes [sperm or eggs for male or female, respectively] for fertilization.”
Might as well define the Earth as flat and the Moon as green cheese while he's at it.
Do these fuckers have literally nothing else to do than wage wars against reality?
Maybe a strategy to distract the masses while they and their
supportershandlers steal the country blind.I think you mis-spelled "Likely".
I know you misspelled "certainly."
They might try. They’ve already tried to legislate a definition of pi to equal exactly 3.
No, I refuse to believe that's ever hap-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_pi_bill
Motherfucker...
Yes, because "the" bible.
That's the level of idiocy we are dealing with. These people have always been among us, and refuse to learn shit. They insist their kids are at LEAST as stupid as they are, lest they claim others are "indoctrinating" their kids with the "woke" agenda and other such nonsense - the terms have changed, the Birchers used other terms for it, like "Communist agenda", the hatriots in the 90s used terms like "political correctness", the teabaggers continued to talk about "political correctness", the qanon types whine about "DEI" and "being woke" and getting "cancelled".
These people are all the same - qanon crazies == teabaggers == hatriots == Birchers. Only some of the labels have changed.
It keeps us divided. It misdirects the anger of their base towards something other than how badly they are being fucked.
Never attribute that to malice which can be adequately explained by stupidity.... Unless it comes from the mouth of a Republican politician.
Nope.
Yes because if they admit reality, none of them should be in power.
They are going to need something to distract from the economic misery all the dumbfucks voted for are going to be getting (along with everyone else).
I mean, if donvict really does tariffs and deportations, we are going to be in the Great Depression 2.0.
Punching down on trans (and gays/lesbians, and POC, and women, and non-xtians, and liberals, and foreigners that they aren't already deporting) and doing stupid things like trying to get "the" bible being taught in our schools will become priority #1 if the economy goes totally pear-shaped.
This is surely going to lower the price of eggs.
When women are factory farmed baby makers...oh you meant those eggs.
I came here to ask this - it seems a very curious mechanism for lowering the price of eggs and reversing inflation back to the halcyon days of donvict's first term:
I kind of feel like all this spawned from some hot trans-girl turning down one of these shitstains and they've never let it go.
To be honest it's probably all the hot trans-girls turning them down, like there's a conspiracy or something, but hot trans-girls just don't like conservative assholes.
Setting aside the mind, it is a biological fact that approximately 1 in 1700 people are born with both sexual organs.
They're supposed to just, die?
What seems like a rhetorical question to you does not to a fascist.
According to Republicans, yes
Because irony has been bludgeoned to death by these bigots, I’d like to point out they’ve already been performing sex-reassignment surgery on intersex infants to make them conform to a binary sex, without the knowledge or consent of the baby and sometimes the parents. That’s been happening for ages in some places.
So all their tantrums over kids getting sex surgeries are technically true, except they have it completely backwards. It’s done to newborns to force traditional conformity, and they’re the ones doing it.
Intersex people occur at the same rate as redheads. This is the same thing as a proposal to kill all redheads for being redheads
This is really fascinating. I had to idea. Would love to read more on this if you have any recommendations
But gingers don’t have a soul so I guess it’s fine?
Another fact, indigenous peoples all over the world had several genders, some dozens.
Not the dangerous radical gender ideology of trying to be happy
Is there any argument for trans people getting their rights removed?
Bigotry
People dont hate trans people just to hate trans people. They have reason, even if they are bad
Bullshit. It comes from a simple disgust reflex. Everything else is post-hoc justification.
Name one.
And specifically, christian nationalism.
That was what i was asking
One argument i have seen against acknowledging the existence of trans people is that people will be tricked into changing their gender
Its not a good argument, but it exists.
It's bullshit and you're either a sucker or a liar for playing along, pretending you don't know what subtext is.
I wasnt asking for valid arguments against a group of people
Also, i had to search the definition of the word subtext
Same shit said about gay people.
Being gay isn't sexual. Being straight isn't sexual. Being trans isn't sexual. Someone saying they are a girl is not sexual. Someone saying they are a boy is not sexual.
You see how none of this relates to sex?
The real answer is that a lot of people don't really understand being trans. A lot of people used to the same way about gay and lesbian people. Conservatives tried to rally hard against gay and lesbian people, but that proved unpopular. Trans people don't have that same protection. So, they'll go after it until people finally get it.
Conservatives only have identity politics.
I'll agree someone saying they are are a girl/boy or trans isn't sexual. Gender isn't inherently sexual. Someone being gay/straight feels like it's absolutely sexual. Implied with the"sexual" in homo or heterosexual. You could have nonsexual gay/straight thoughts/feelings I guess, but those are just feelings. Like, ANYONE is allowed to have them regardless of orientation, and honestly sounds like it's bordering on asexual. Do you have a learning example for that line of thought? Before any angry blowback: I'm not trying to be a dick about this. As far as my understanding of this goes, I don't follow that comment.
I'm referring to nudity and expressing sexuality in front of children. Drag and children. Parades of expression with children involved. Seeing essentially naked men and women and children being encouraged to interact in it.
Nudity is also not inherently sexual. You can be naked for reasons outside of having sex, such as cleaning yourself, using the bathroom, changing outfits, sunbathing, relaxing, etc. None of those are inherently sexual.
Wearing drag is not sexual either. It's been a thing for centuries, and that's just the easily identifiable stuff.
Wearing kink gear is not inherently sexual, though I can understand that you don't recognize that because it has connotations. But you can wear it without it being a sexual act.
"Expressing" sexuality is purposefully vague. Is kissing expressing sexuality? Is holding hands? Children do those. That would be an expression of your sexual orientation. You aren't really making any sense.
If that were a valid explanation then why is the bill banning any adult recognition of trans adults?
There’s a different conversation on whether to allow gender affirming therapy for minors.
Sure. Different conversation I agree. I wasn't commenting to the original post. Just that the idea that transgenderism and the issues surrounding it arent hard discussions with people outside of the community here is irrational.
Ah yes not bigotry just made up bs points that are meant to do nothing but stop trans people from being accepted.
A lot of these points had analogues in the past with other minority rights movements, but why look to the past and see how those points were non-issues when we can instead get mad about the transgenders CoNfUsInG OuR ChIlDrEn.
And
This just means we need to let kids be who they are and support them in their transition, that is the only logical conclusion of that issue.
Unless they're t****n freaks, then they can get outed to their abusive parents and sent to conversion camps for all I care :^)
Are you referring to yourself? No one who loves their children wants to send them to conversion camp. There are definitely discussions to have regarding the proper medical treatments and psychological care and how the involvement of the state and legislature hurts more than helps. But I don't want the state being involved in how we raise our children. I don't want to change children or parents sending their kids to camp. But you can't pretend that parents and our communities aren't involved in the way a child is raised, how they grow mentally and encouraging strengths, and guiding them in a healthy way. Let kids be who they are and make sure they get the support they need.
You say that and yet when a child decides to confide in their teacher for their own safety, instead of their parents, you want them to be forced to out the children.
And the entire "poor confused children" rhetoric doesn't do anything but hurt us. We are not confused, we are devastated by being forced to go through the wrong puberty.
It really doesn't sound like you're a bigot but please examine the sort of rhetoric you take in and spread.
"Confusing children during pivotal construction of their identity."
Discovering and accepting your identity very much is what transitioning is. According to general society being born as a specific sex implies that identity. In everything from hobbies, clothing, friends. But what if you realise your identity does not align with what your sex implies? Even if it's something small like a 15-year old boy who likes knitting. That aspect of their identity goes against the implied or expected identity that is based on their physical sex. Is the boy confused because he likes knitting or because what he's been told what his identity should be doesn't mesh with who he is?
"Suicide causes for transgender teens is often reported as bullying or bigotry, but not often reported on the lack of support for dysphoria and other mental health conditions."
How are transgender teens supposed to get support for dysphoria if they are instead isolated? In my experience dysphoria isn't something you just talk to a therapist about and then it's cured. It's the horrible visceral feeling I got whenever I was forced to wear a dress shirt. What fixed that? Not wearing a dress shirt. The freedom to wear the clothes that make me comfortable.
"A lack of stability in life often leads to chaotic life altering decisions, sometimes self harm and death."
My life wasn't more stable before I knew what transgender meant and realised I didn't identify as a man when I was 19. It was filled with depression, self-isolation, and suicidal ideation. A slow but steady spiral into nothingness. It's not like dysphoria only exists if we know it exists. Realising I was trans was certainly chaotic. But the reason it was so chaotic was that the identity that had been built up for me was shattered. So now I had to find and rebuild my identity from scratch. What most people spend their time doing from 5-16 I had to do over because I didn't fit into the identity I was told to build.
I dealt with self-harm. Still struggle with it sometimes. I learned as a kid to bottle up my feelings. Be it regular sadness or stress, or dysphoria. So I began to use self-harm as a way to escape and cope with those feelings. When I could no longer bottle them up. Just like how people drink to drown their sorrows or do drugs to escape reality. I believe I never would have begun to self-harm if I had been able to build the identity I wanted from the start. If I was allowed to cry, or to express myself in ways that help me cope naturally.
Why is the inclusion of people - or teenagers in this case - that don't fit the pre-existing mould and expectations such a problem? The idea that not everyone automatically fits into pre-conceived notions of what a boy and a girl is, or likes, or does, or acts. Is that such a threat to school or society in general?
Yes we need more help for people with gender dysphoria. But that help isn't isolation from society. That help isn't stopping people from trying to figure out who they really are.
People can hate other people simply to make themselves feel better. Or for societal gain. That is less a reason for "why should this person be hated", and more "what will I gain for hating/inciting hate against this person".
You can go to pretty much any school and find someone being excluded or bullied for a nonsensical reason. I remember growing up when being "gay" was the worst thing someone could be in middleschool. That hate didn't come from reasoned arguments or even fear. It came from something being different and the knowledge of calling someone out for being gay could societally give you a leg up on them.
The reason is bigotry. And misogyny.
I doubt you’ll see them freaking out about trans men playing men’s sports.
It's literally just bigotry and propaganda
Doesnt propaganda still have to give reasons or have a reason for people to believe the message?
We need media stepping up the messaging that the Right is infatuated with the genitals of people, especially children. Outside of maybe your Dr. (and/or partner), nobody should be talking about, or caring about your genitals to the degree the Right is in this pervy/pedo crusade of late.
The right owns the media. The revolution will not be televised.
They own the traditional media, but not the hundreds of thousands of YouTube and TikTok influencers with millions of followers each.
The revolution will be vlogged.
Oh my sweet summer child,
They own the social media companies too.
The revolution will not be hosted on AWS
We really need to start saying that these people want their own family members killed. It seems to be the only thing that can get some people to listen
They're not even replacing anything, they're just adding to it. Why do ya'll even care. Life is already so fucking miserable, even worse when you feel like you're not even in the right body. Fucking help people. Why is it that seemingly every politician just hates people? Why go out of your wait to be a representative just to make people miserable.
Because picking on ever smaller societal minority classes makes them look hard on the issues. Torturing people that otherwise don't effect you is easy political points for heartless monsters representing imbeciles.
Exploiting hatred instead of trying to resolve hatred really.
Someone should establish a Department of Senate Efficiency to look into whether that is an efficient use of the senates time.
Not a catchy enough name for fuckin Neanderthals to chuckle about
“As a physician who has delivered over 5,000 babies, I can confidently say that politicizing children’s gender to use them as pawns in their radical woke agenda is not only wrong, it is extremely dangerous" has got to be the most unaware sentence I've ever seen.
Holy shit, it worked and it hasn't even been signed yet.
I don't know about y'all but I don't remember Kamala or Biden directly spreading information in favor of lgbtq+ values. That's mostly been Hollywood. There might be some lobbying going on and some shoulder rubbing, but... I mean, I have yet to even hear Biden say the word trans in any real context unless I'm wrong, here. Their stance is less a stance and more of a "you're human, you're cool too".
But the scene does seem to be that the Republican party can just claim they stopped Kaijus and Holy wars and their fanbases will eat it up, so...
"Hey, my podcast said you didn't exist yesterday."
...sorry to disappoint you.
That is the irony - there is a huge set of butthurt incels that are deeply incensed about what they see happening in culture. They seem to think it has been legislated. Honestly, part of me does wonder if big money is behind trying to annoy just enough of these types to tip things in the favor of the big money party - the Republicans.
Huge companies like Disney seem to almost be setting money on fire to do this...and it has zero to do with Democrats. It also seems to be making more Republicans with the sanctimonious aspect of it all. Representation is one thing, but some of this almost seems like its goes out of its way to give the finger to people that are otherwise kind of apolitical, thus radicalizing them and they blame Democrats for it all...and there is a ready set of Youtube "influencers" set up to get them agitated and outraged about all this, funneling them right into the douchebag universe of angry bros.
No-one is "replacing biological sex" silly.
Gender is different from sex. It's related, but separate.
Sex and gender are also both very nuanced and complicated terms
Idk about the terms, but the concepts and definitions are, yeah.
Wait, if they are erased, can they then become invisible superheroes?
Go back to Reddit
LoL, are you "go back where you came from" ing me? Go bob some apples, K, bob.
Imagine if we had a senate that was focused on real political and social issues instead of who has the "right" to go to the bathroom. Fucking nonsense.
I mean they had the chance during 4 years didn't they
@floofloof And this guy is an actual MD, as in medical doctor.
Aren't doctors supposed to take an oath to do no harm? This will cause so much harm.
Republicanlawmakers only swear an oath to whomever is paying them the most.Edit: Democrats do it too, just not as obviously and not all of them. Until we get rid of corporate lobbying, we'll be firmly in an oligarchy.
Technically, no. "Do no harm" was the motto of a 19th century French physician and later made its way into medical textbooks, but it is not found in the Hippocratic oath.
It seems those exact words don't feature in the oath, but the pledge to do no harm is there, worded slightly differently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
Dr Oz is a real doctor as well. Unfortunately medical school doesn't prevent people from being delusional. Or giant assholes for that matter
Dr. Oz is the 1 doctor out of 10 who chooses the other brand.
Ya know, this "guy" goes by the name Roger and wears a suit and tie - why I bet he uses the "mens" bathroom... but how do we even know he's "male"? No seriously, how do we know he's not secretly just using the "mens" to try to assault/molest/peep on other alleged "men"?
I mean, if he's defining "male" then what follows, clearly, are inspections. He should not be exempt from them but, if he truly has nothing to hide, should be willing to be first in line.
wHaT ArE yOu HiDiNg "Roger"?
If centrists wanted to be upset about bigotry against trans people, they could have started when they were blaming trans people for Harris losing. They could have started when their candidates were parroting Republican "boys in girls' sports" bigotry in their own ads.
The indignation here rings hollow because like all the pretended morals of centrism, it is hollow.
For the first time in history we had a president address trans issues in a state of the union. No democratic politicians have enacted legislation against Trans - in fact quite the opposite. But here you stand grandstanding again.
Get over blaming centrists for all your problems and enjoy the next four years
It's the only options we got in a FPTP. If you think not participating absolves you of any moral agency then you are just naive. I never said the democrats were champions of trans issues. I said steps were being taken in the right direction. They were very small steps, but it was something. Democracy demands vigilance and active participation. Its only as strong as it's participating individuals. The same goes for any other polity, so don't delude yourself in thinking that we are immune to corruption in any alternate system either.
Tell me, how happy were you to see the bigotry you agree with at all times repeated by candidates in your own party?
Like what? Got any examples?
Edit: I see just down votes. Anyone got examples??
https://youtu.be/TKBJoj4XyFc?t=714
Colin Allred and Vicente Gonzalez, in their own words.
My examples were posted before you made this edit. And you are whining about exactly one downvote.
I remember these now. I find those two candidates and their messaging despicable. However I should caveat: these are two small town local races. They run in stark contrast to the messaging from the President.
I understand the Dnc is a big party tent. In an ideal world I'd love to see a true progressive party take hold in America. The DNC needs a thorough shake up. Im feeling pretty glum about it atm tbh
Allred was running for US Senate. Gonzalez was running to represent TX-34 in the US House of Representatives. I gave you their names and you can use google.
Yeah, big enough for anti-trans hate and not one but two Cheneys. But fuck progressives.
And an ideal world is your prerequisite since it means shutting out progressives until that happens.
I personally didn't shut down progressives. When I say ideal world I'm just stating my preference. As in I'd really like to see a progressive party. Non the other way around.
Well, said senator could find himself and his cohorts erased as well
These dumbfucks really seem to believe that trans started with Biden or Obama, don't they?
I knew a man who got legally erased once. He was never the same after that.
Not stating anything in the article isn't true, but wouldn't it be better to post a less biased source? That website has a very obvious bias. The other day, someone used motherjones as a source. I know Lemmy is extremely left leaning, but left wing rags shouldn't be used as legitimate sources.
The headline alone should be enough to avoid that website. No one is trying to erase them. That's hyperbole.
Legally erase. It's not hyperbolic, it's literally what the bill is about.
Man, I hope all the trans who said they wouldn't vote for Harris because she didn't talk about them are feeling great about the new government that will be in control during the next few years!
If we used a more representative electoral system, these people would be free to vote for who they want, safe in the knowledge their vote would still be counted against the republicans.
Are you working to replace First Past The Post voting in your state now that we have a few gasps of ait between elections?
Only true if the right isn't united. With a split left and a united right then the right ends up with the most people elected anyway. The only reason the left got a plurality in France is because it decided to work as a team for once, otherwise the far right would have taken over.
Also, acting like the system isn't FPTP in the meantime is just acting against your own interests.
This is what centrists think solidarity looks like.
You gotta work with the system you have, you can disagree with it, in the meantime you're still working against your interests of you decide to not vote for the lesser of two evils.
Yeah, I saw how that worked out here on lemmy.
Already voted for Harris. This is about your gross vindictive glee at the misfortune of others.
Glee? What glee? I'm just pointing out that some people were saying they wouldn't vote for Harris because she didn't talk about the issue close to their heart specifically and in the end they'll be part of the reason why things will get worse for them. Fuck around and find out works both ways and I hope that will be a lesson for them.
There is no glee. I'm sorry it seems that way to you. There is a lot of frustration going around. Playing the blame game gets us nowhere. I was part of the problem too blaming non committal lefties. I'm sorry for my past attitude. I'm just not convinced that block has any interest in making change anymore. I think we're all miserable at the moment. We all have friends or know people that will be personally affected in the next four years so there is absolutely no glee here (at least for me)
You. Still. Are. That's the entire fucking point of your Schadenfreude-laden gloating that trans people are going to suffer, just on the off chance that some of them stayed home.
I'm not gloating. I've stated as much numerous times. I'm pretty glum about it. I'm disappointed in the DNC overall.
Try to have a convo without getting so bitter all the time. I'm not your enemy.
The constant purity testing of candidates/policies?
The entitlement and vindictiveness when that entitlement is not met.
of course I hate the active reduction of freedom. But may I ask, how important is this? Will trans people be able to continue to survive? Existing and being who you believe you are seems to be the important detail which pisses then off. They can't do anything but be explicitly rude.
Should someone decide to fight you for being trans, I will fight for + with you.
Writing this comment mildly drunk, I'm sure there's problems with it, but what if it's like rain off a window, you look at it and ignore it?
This is a precursor to them trying to sue trans people for "fraud" by having documents with the correct gender marker. Also, the cruelty is the point, and this is in itself cruel.
Cripes. The fuckin struggle just to survive never ends. I don't get what people's problem is, and at this point an convinced I never will. Fuck em.
Power, control, undiagnosed mental illnesses, capitalism
They can also force transgender people in institutional settings (prison, college, military, etc) to be housed with the wrong gender. That can be dangerous.
Yeah for sure. I understand. I wish people could just be.
Getting rid of Title IX protections is going to make surviving pretty fucking hard if you wind up with a bigoted manager who decides to fire you... Or just companies decide they don't want to hire trans people at all.
😮💨 it kinda seems like these companies already disengage once they meet via video or in person. Generic reasons are presented, "poor for for the team" etc.
If an HR person is dumb, you've possibly got em dead to rights with IX and some kind of evidence. I just think it's so crazy to disregard someone's potential just because they want to exist as their internal self.
Over time, that particular org won't be as successful as the one hiring candidates for effectiveness over appearance, but damn does it suck for the individual bring denied at that time.
They can be denied appropriate medical care.
That's enough reason to help fight the incoming changes, as far as I'm concerned.
"They're people" is more than enough reason.
There doesn't need to be some arbitrary condition to be met before you decide that they're worthy of solidarity.
Hi, please calm down. I agree.
Nah you're right, for the most part trans issues have been a great source of debate but mild source of actual problems.
Won't stop either of us being virtually jumped on for saying it, though