patriotism is nothing but loyalty to real estate. - dr. gregory house.
seriously, though. it's high time we thought of ourselves as co-passengers on a single planet-sized ship rather than attributing memberships to everyone on the basis of arbitrarily drawn lines on a map.
While I do hope that eventually we get to one humanity-sized tribe, until then humans still seem to want smaller tribes. While trying to convince people to see all humans as part of the same tribe, we can simultaneously try and improve the smaller arbitrary tribes we were given by chance.
the minute we think of ourselves as being part of a tribe -- of being a subgroup -- we lose sight of the fact that we are all together with each other on this third rock from the sun.
we know of no other life as yet. the only life we have amongst ourselves and around us on the crust of this planet is therefore doubly sacred.
why would we want to dilute something so wonderful by etching a border between ourselves and creating a "you" versus a "me"? why would we even want to maintain that division even if it were ostensibly given to us "by chance"?
(separately, it would be a travesty to say that the so-called "tribes" inhabiting india and pakistan, south korea and north korea, czechia and slovakia, all the present-day components of the former yugoslavia, northern ireland and the republic of ireland, and all other such sets of people divided by manmade norms were "given to us by chance".)
separately, it would be a travesty to say that the so-called "tribes" [...] were "given to us by chance"
What I meant by that is that you don't decide where you're born or who your parents are. That is "by chance" from the point of view of the individual.
Humans are a tribal species. Whether we're talking culture, ethnicity, nationality or any other method of defining who is inside or outside the group, the fact is we have an ingrained tendency to separate "us" from "them".
Modern psychology says that the process of becoming more and more inclusive and tolerant is the process of expanding your mental map of who your "tribe" is.
This means that to truly accomplish our goal here (you and I seem to 100% agree on that goal), we need to expand people's mental model of their tribe to encompass all people.
I truly believe that when we accomplish the goal, people's mental model of just about anything "different" or "strange" is also implied to have changed, for the better.
Around that time, we will be able to evolve and leave most of our self-destructive mental models behind.
The way I see it, patriotism is a gateway-philosophy to nationalism. At best I think it is unproductive and at worst it facilitates nationalism. In my native language there is no distinction between the concepts and last time it discussed in a non-negative light was during the Nazi occupation.
I disagree to a point (only with the first panel): I don’t think patriotism requires that one think their country is the best (and thinking that your country is generally/objectively the best is a little sketch). Liking your country best is another story.
As a parallel, I like imperial units best. I find them more intuitive and I’m used to estimating them. I think metric units are more suited to scientific work and, if I really had to choose, I’d probably consider them the objectively better system. I think I’m the equivalent of patriotic about imperial units, whereas someone who thinks they’re inherently better would be nationalistic.
I like to call them "freedom units", because they remind me that I'm free to continue to make an objectively poor choice, each time I measure something.
I mean, the government not using a heavy hand in switching us to metric (not that it doesn't use a heavy hand in other things) is the reason we never did. The law was passed, but nobody cared, so we never switched.
Eh, I think there's an argument that Farenheit is more relatable to daily human life than Celsius. Not so much pretty much any of the other units. For the rest it's just familiarity+experience.
And for the most part, Imperial units are duuuuuuuumb.
There's a machinist I watch on YouTube that took a small hiatus and came back significantly more patriotic. He actually started to begin all his videos with the pledge of allegiance and I seriously thought he went off the MAGA deep end.
He eventually sat down and made a video about the sudden change: he said he hates the way that people nowadays claim to love America yet seek out to destroy the fundamental things that made it the way it is. He said the hardest working, most exemplary Americans he knows are the ones that came here from another country to make a better life for their family and community, and being a true patriotic American is lifting up your brothers and sisters through hard work and respect, to make our lives and our country a better place.
But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile.
"They don't think their country is gods gift to the universe and their are issues with where they live that need correcting. They must hate their country lol"
Not the point, you were referencing the people in the comments. Which at the time of my viewing didn't have anyone just trashing their countries. At the most people were simply bringing up issues and talking about how blind loyalty is a problem.
27 replies
patriotism is nothing but loyalty to real estate. - dr. gregory house.
seriously, though. it's high time we thought of ourselves as co-passengers on a single planet-sized ship rather than attributing memberships to everyone on the basis of arbitrarily drawn lines on a map.
Patriotism is the belief that together we can make this place really lasting and good.
Nationalism is the belief that no place could compare to your nation and every other nation needs to show fealty.
I'm ok with patriotism.
I'm not ok with nationalism.
the problem is with the definition of "this place". a patriot's vision of "this place" is restricted by borders drawn by politicians.
no sane person should ever "be ok" with that extent of tunnel vision. "this place" should extend to the world we all share.
I’d prefer countries, especially the US, not fuck with other countries, regardless of whether their goal is “improving” them or not.
While I do hope that eventually we get to one humanity-sized tribe, until then humans still seem to want smaller tribes. While trying to convince people to see all humans as part of the same tribe, we can simultaneously try and improve the smaller arbitrary tribes we were given by chance.
the minute we think of ourselves as being part of a tribe -- of being a subgroup -- we lose sight of the fact that we are all together with each other on this third rock from the sun.
we know of no other life as yet. the only life we have amongst ourselves and around us on the crust of this planet is therefore doubly sacred.
why would we want to dilute something so wonderful by etching a border between ourselves and creating a "you" versus a "me"? why would we even want to maintain that division even if it were ostensibly given to us "by chance"?
(separately, it would be a travesty to say that the so-called "tribes" inhabiting india and pakistan, south korea and north korea, czechia and slovakia, all the present-day components of the former yugoslavia, northern ireland and the republic of ireland, and all other such sets of people divided by manmade norms were "given to us by chance".)
What I meant by that is that you don't decide where you're born or who your parents are. That is "by chance" from the point of view of the individual.
Humans are a tribal species. Whether we're talking culture, ethnicity, nationality or any other method of defining who is inside or outside the group, the fact is we have an ingrained tendency to separate "us" from "them".
Modern psychology says that the process of becoming more and more inclusive and tolerant is the process of expanding your mental map of who your "tribe" is.
This means that to truly accomplish our goal here (you and I seem to 100% agree on that goal), we need to expand people's mental model of their tribe to encompass all people.
I truly believe that when we accomplish the goal, people's mental model of just about anything "different" or "strange" is also implied to have changed, for the better.
Around that time, we will be able to evolve and leave most of our self-destructive mental models behind.
The way I see it, patriotism is a gateway-philosophy to nationalism. At best I think it is unproductive and at worst it facilitates nationalism. In my native language there is no distinction between the concepts and last time it discussed in a non-negative light was during the Nazi occupation.
a bit overwrought
I disagree to a point (only with the first panel): I don’t think patriotism requires that one think their country is the best (and thinking that your country is generally/objectively the best is a little sketch). Liking your country best is another story.
As a parallel, I like imperial units best. I find them more intuitive and I’m used to estimating them. I think metric units are more suited to scientific work and, if I really had to choose, I’d probably consider them the objectively better system. I think I’m the equivalent of patriotic about imperial units, whereas someone who thinks they’re inherently better would be nationalistic.
I too feel this way about imperial units.
I like to call them "freedom units", because they remind me that I'm free to continue to make an objectively poor choice, each time I measure something.
I mean, the government not using a heavy hand in switching us to metric (not that it doesn't use a heavy hand in other things) is the reason we never did. The law was passed, but nobody cared, so we never switched.
Well I like to call them freedom units because I'm free to steal other peoples jokes >:3
Eh, I think there's an argument that Farenheit is more relatable to daily human life than Celsius. Not so much pretty much any of the other units. For the rest it's just familiarity+experience.
And for the most part, Imperial units are duuuuuuuumb.
I feel like I've seen this posted in this community before.
The souce link to the smbc.com homepage doesn't make it any easier to evaluate.
That said, my seven year old son enjoyed it.
Link to the comic in question
You can also love your country while at the same time utterly hating your government.
Those are separate things, despite what politicians and nationalists have told you.
But hating your government because it's not ruled by the right colour is lame.
There's a machinist I watch on YouTube that took a small hiatus and came back significantly more patriotic. He actually started to begin all his videos with the pledge of allegiance and I seriously thought he went off the MAGA deep end.
He eventually sat down and made a video about the sudden change: he said he hates the way that people nowadays claim to love America yet seek out to destroy the fundamental things that made it the way it is. He said the hardest working, most exemplary Americans he knows are the ones that came here from another country to make a better life for their family and community, and being a true patriotic American is lifting up your brothers and sisters through hard work and respect, to make our lives and our country a better place.
THAT is what patriotism looks like.
Nationalist patriotism is a religion that worships dirt.
Imagine self hating your country so much like a lot of people do in these comments. Lol.
"They don't think their country is gods gift to the universe and their are issues with where they live that need correcting. They must hate their country lol"
Some people do just hate their country, though
Not the point, you were referencing the people in the comments. Which at the time of my viewing didn't have anyone just trashing their countries. At the most people were simply bringing up issues and talking about how blind loyalty is a problem.
I hate all countries.