A modified kiosk versions. Many Chomebooks cannot boot normal/main Linux. Those are mostly drivers, so less modified than Android where big things are changed but still.
lol no, it's alpine based. basing something on Manjaro would be pretty dumb anyways, might as well go straight off Arch (especially dumb since neither have official ARM support which phones need)
I used it on my laptop a little while back and it works pretty great. Although the stable software repositories are kind of small (doesn't even have tcc) which is the reason I switched back to Void. Still, it's great to see GNU as an operating system component isn't needed that much anymore in Linux.
I feel like GNU and the GPL are the best things that have happened in the tech space in a long time. I wish more people understood the significance of this and the FSF
I was talking to a friend the other about about this. He said he loves the Android OS. He said imagining putting Linux on it and I couldn't help but laugh. His eyes widened when I told him what Android really was
I would say the biggest thing that makes it not have the benefits of running Linux by choice is your lack of control (by default). You don't have root access and you aren't allowed to do much with it. The experience is much different than running Linux by choice yourself, even if the kernel is the same.
The way I see it is Android users are Linux users the same way fans of games who have only played the spin-off games are to people who have played the mainline games. They're just a different kind of fan.
I've been patiently waiting for advancements in true Linux phones for years. I feel like a hypocrite when using android. Anyone know if pinephone is nearing a new release?
User land is incompatible even between traditional Linux distros and they all do kernel mods to suit their needs, so yeah, Android is as much of a Linux as Ubuntu is.
Not true at all. Many distros like Alpine are not using GNU userland, yet you would consider them a proper Linux, right? And kernel changes in distros... Don't even get me started. Suffice to say that no one ships vanilla for decades.
Android and ChromeOS are more Linux than MacOS and iOS are a FreeBSD. Apple closed the source quite a while ago and they have their own fork which I bet is very far away from the original now.
FreeBSD is licenced under BSD licence, they don't have to do shit and they don't. Windows is also using a lot of BSD code and you'll never see the sources.
You can say the same about every distro. There's literally no difference between Android and Ubuntu from this perspective. Also that's how a lot of code feeds back into the kernel - it gets tested in the wild and if it's good and useful it gets PRd and merged back.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Android, is in fact, GNU/Android, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Android. :D
Wouldn't it be more like Android/Linux (or Android plus Linux) because it only has a small fraction of the GNU software / libraries but still uses the Linux kernel?
Free software. Try to use apt on Android, or run software that you can use on a desktop. And no ads in every app.
Root access, that is, being admim of your own device.
Being able to access the file system and support for different types. For example Android doesn't support NTFS and needs FAT. Plugging a simple USB drive has mixed results.
This is from the top of my head. I use both but I really don't like how Android is locked down and so limited, even for power users. I really wish I could have a real "pocket computer" instead of this thing that feeds me ads.
Don't use apps with ads then? Or set up an ad blocker.
Root access, that is, being admim of your own device.
That's just how most Android versions are shipped. It's still technically possible to get root access, and really enjoy every privilege of Linux. Not all devices allow using a custom OS though, sadly
Setting up an ad blocker for a whole device often requires root. I gave up with my new phone and just have ublock origin on Firefox but that's the point. I can't easily install something that will modify the DNS because I have no admin access on my phone.
That's why I also do give up on certain apps. For example I don't like the ads in Boost so I stopped using it. Sometimes I pay for the version of an app without ads. This doesn't happen on Linux.
Also being heavily pushed towards apps for websites like YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook... Lemmy, Mastodon... They are all "best experienced" in apps, and most of them will probably try to push you ads or make you pay.
Again, I'm relatively tech savvy so I can find other ways, but it's still annoying and disappointing to have to constantly find ways around the system. It doesn't happen in Linux.
Also being heavily pushed towards apps for websites like YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook… Lemmy, Mastodon… They are all “best experienced” in apps, and most of them will probably try to push you ads or make you pay.
That has nothing to do with the operating system. Just use Firefox, set it to show you the desktop version of the websites, and you'll have the same experience as on a desktop PC.
Except with a smaller screen size.
I just use the AdGuard app. It runs all my Internet traffic through an on-device VPN server (The VPN is the phone itself.), and it uses that to filter out all the ads.
Like ability to install different desktop enviroment?
I have a phone with PostmarketOS installed and, besides being immature for now, the difference in possibilities are night and day.
Almost all apps store settings in easy to backup .config folder. I can really script things using cron jobs and plain bash. Develop apps with any programming language without stupid SDK. Carry portable Minecraft of Factorio server for LAN parties. Use literally the exact same apps on both phone and desktop without ports and having their data synced. I can talk for hours.
Like ability to install different desktop enviroment?
Technically, with root access, yeah. It's just that Android's UI isn't a DE/WM in the desktop Linux sense
Almost all apps store settings in easy to backup .config folder.
And same for Android app data with root access. /data contains, well, data of apps and the general system. Sure, it's not the same as on desktop Linux, but it's still possible to modify, copy, delete with root access. Every app is a different Linux user on Android, and that's also just different from desktop Linux.
To me, you're just pointing out differences due to the software architecture of both OSes.
Like ability to install different desktop enviroment?
Technically, with root access, yeah. It's just that Android's UI isn't a DE/WM in the desktop Linux sense
You can also just install different apps that change the home screen. Android calls them "launchers". You can install one from the Google Play Store or elsewhere like any other app. Then just set it up. Once it's setup, the phone simply loads that app's launcher instead of the phone's default launcher (which is usually also an app).
Being able to practially develop anything without running Google's proprietary build of Android SDK can be enough for devs to see the difference.
It might be very similar on the surface, for casual person installing app from appstore. But the whole ecosystem above the Linux kernel and below app interface is barely comparable. No Flatpak, Wayland, SystemD, glibc, PipeWire, etc.
The way apps are build, most of the times does not matter what kernel is at the bottom. What matters are toolings and the ecosystem.
Android could be build on Windows NT and most won't notice (remember Windows Phone? Not looking at UI/UX design, it felt really similar), yet we wouldn't call Android as being the same as Windows.
Consider how dead-easy it is to write a bash script or c program in Linux, and then enable it (have it run on boot) using SystemD daemons. A total noob could do it after reading a 5 minute tutorial.
Is it even possible to do the same on an android phone? I have no idea, but willing to bet not.
According to the Linux Foundation: Yes According to Google: No, not really
According to the kernel output on any android phone: yes
is chromium os linux? (open source chrome os)
Yes? A kiosk version of Linux, but Linux nonetheless.
A modified kiosk versions. Many Chomebooks cannot boot normal/main Linux. Those are mostly drivers, so less modified than Android where big things are changed but still.
According to my nokia router: yes
You are on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of master.
This is why "GNU/" is the important part.
Alpine users in shambles
What do people use Alpine for? Embedded systems?
I sometimes see it used for Docker containers, but usually a distroless or "chiseled" container is a better fit and can be even lighter weight.
Pretty sure post market is actually based on manjaro.
lol no, it's alpine based. basing something on Manjaro would be pretty dumb anyways, might as well go straight off Arch (especially dumb since neither have official ARM support which phones need)
I used it on my laptop a little while back and it works pretty great. Although the stable software repositories are kind of small (doesn't even have tcc) which is the reason I switched back to Void. Still, it's great to see GNU as an operating system component isn't needed that much anymore in Linux.
Interesting - I didn't know it was complete enough to run on a laptop as I've only seen it on servers. Good to know!
As well they should be!
I feel like GNU and the GPL are the best things that have happened in the tech space in a long time. I wish more people understood the significance of this and the FSF
Careful, you're gonna make the BSD users angry. All 4 of them.
I was talking to a friend the other about about this. He said he loves the Android OS. He said imagining putting Linux on it and I couldn't help but laugh. His eyes widened when I told him what Android really was
Genuinely curious what he had in mind. A GNOME desktop? A terminal shell?
sudo call Grandma
Grandma is not in sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
If he was saying that I cannot believe he wouldn't already know.
Right I mix up Linux and Android all the time. Literally the same thing /s
Are penguins even allowed to use any other OS?
I've seen a fox use Chrome, so I guess so
That was a spy
objective answer= yes but not gnu, in other words just the kernel
I would say the biggest thing that makes it not have the benefits of running Linux by choice is your lack of control (by default). You don't have root access and you aren't allowed to do much with it. The experience is much different than running Linux by choice yourself, even if the kernel is the same.
Which is all we care about
speak for yourself, it is like saying windows and reactos are the same
But I don't think those have the same kernel.
I thought they did, but my point stands
The way I see it is Android users are Linux users the same way fans of games who have only played the spin-off games are to people who have played the mainline games. They're just a different kind of fan.
You claim you've never liked Final Fantasy and yet I can clearly see a copy of Chocobo Dungeon in your Dreamcast.
It's like main game vs mobile adaptation of 2010's era.
I've been patiently waiting for advancements in true Linux phones for years. I feel like a hypocrite when using android. Anyone know if pinephone is nearing a new release?
Android is a true Linux.
Sounds like it is more correct to refer to it as GOOG/Linux
User land is incompatible even between traditional Linux distros and they all do kernel mods to suit their needs, so yeah, Android is as much of a Linux as Ubuntu is.
Not true at all. Many distros like Alpine are not using GNU userland, yet you would consider them a proper Linux, right? And kernel changes in distros... Don't even get me started. Suffice to say that no one ships vanilla for decades.
That's not how Linux OSes work.
I like how being gay just moved from being an insult to being slaaaaaay babe
Android and ChromeOS are more Linux than MacOS and iOS are a FreeBSD. Apple closed the source quite a while ago and they have their own fork which I bet is very far away from the original now.
But don't they have to publish the changes they make the to kernel and or GNU-Tools since they distribute the compiled versions of it (License Wise)?
Furthermore I remember seeing some activity at their GitHub page for the/some kernel but I may be mistaken.
FreeBSD is licenced under BSD licence, they don't have to do shit and they don't. Windows is also using a lot of BSD code and you'll never see the sources.
You can say the same about every distro. There's literally no difference between Android and Ubuntu from this perspective. Also that's how a lot of code feeds back into the kernel - it gets tested in the wild and if it's good and useful it gets PRd and merged back.
You can kinda sorta run Linux userspace on Android, with a bit of compatibility layer.
F-droid
Additionally the Android kernel is so heavily modified that you can't just make a phone run Linux
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Android, is in fact, GNU/Android, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Android. :D
Wouldn't it be more like Android/Linux (or Android plus Linux) because it only has a small fraction of the GNU software / libraries but still uses the Linux kernel?
BusyBox + Linux = Linux
Yes, it’s only elitists that say otherwise but we can disregard them
No. It's technically Linux, but has none of the benefits that are suppose to come with Linux.
Which are?
I really want to know! I am using both but wouldn't call me an expert. There is still much to learn.
Free software. Try to use apt on Android, or run software that you can use on a desktop. And no ads in every app.
Root access, that is, being admim of your own device.
Being able to access the file system and support for different types. For example Android doesn't support NTFS and needs FAT. Plugging a simple USB drive has mixed results.
This is from the top of my head. I use both but I really don't like how Android is locked down and so limited, even for power users. I really wish I could have a real "pocket computer" instead of this thing that feeds me ads.
With Termux one can
Don't use apps with ads then? Or set up an ad blocker.
That's just how most Android versions are shipped. It's still technically possible to get root access, and really enjoy every privilege of Linux. Not all devices allow using a custom OS though, sadly
Setting up an ad blocker for a whole device often requires root. I gave up with my new phone and just have ublock origin on Firefox but that's the point. I can't easily install something that will modify the DNS because I have no admin access on my phone.
That's why I also do give up on certain apps. For example I don't like the ads in Boost so I stopped using it. Sometimes I pay for the version of an app without ads. This doesn't happen on Linux.
Also being heavily pushed towards apps for websites like YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook... Lemmy, Mastodon... They are all "best experienced" in apps, and most of them will probably try to push you ads or make you pay.
Again, I'm relatively tech savvy so I can find other ways, but it's still annoying and disappointing to have to constantly find ways around the system. It doesn't happen in Linux.
Android is the enshittification of Linux.
That has nothing to do with the operating system. Just use Firefox, set it to show you the desktop version of the websites, and you'll have the same experience as on a desktop PC.
Except with a smaller screen size.
Private DNS since Android 9 can do that without root access afaik, like with AdGuard's public service
I just use the AdGuard app. It runs all my Internet traffic through an on-device VPN server (The VPN is the phone itself.), and it uses that to filter out all the ads.
Like ability to install different desktop enviroment?
I have a phone with PostmarketOS installed and, besides being immature for now, the difference in possibilities are night and day.
Almost all apps store settings in easy to backup
.configfolder. I can really script things using cron jobs and plain bash. Develop apps with any programming language without stupid SDK. Carry portable Minecraft of Factorio server for LAN parties. Use literally the exact same apps on both phone and desktop without ports and having their data synced. I can talk for hours.Technically, with root access, yeah. It's just that Android's UI isn't a DE/WM in the desktop Linux sense
And same for Android app data with root access.
/datacontains, well, data of apps and the general system. Sure, it's not the same as on desktop Linux, but it's still possible to modify, copy, delete with root access. Every app is a different Linux user on Android, and that's also just different from desktop Linux.To me, you're just pointing out differences due to the software architecture of both OSes.
You can also just install different apps that change the home screen. Android calls them "launchers". You can install one from the Google Play Store or elsewhere like any other app. Then just set it up. Once it's setup, the phone simply loads that app's launcher instead of the phone's default launcher (which is usually also an app).
The benefits are the open source Kernel that both have
Being able to practially develop anything without running Google's proprietary build of Android SDK can be enough for devs to see the difference.
It might be very similar on the surface, for casual person installing app from appstore. But the whole ecosystem above the Linux kernel and below app interface is barely comparable. No Flatpak, Wayland, SystemD, glibc, PipeWire, etc.
The way apps are build, most of the times does not matter what kernel is at the bottom. What matters are toolings and the ecosystem.
Android could be build on Windows NT and most won't notice (remember Windows Phone? Not looking at UI/UX design, it felt really similar), yet we wouldn't call Android as being the same as Windows.
Consider how dead-easy it is to write a bash script or c program in Linux, and then enable it (have it run on boot) using SystemD daemons. A total noob could do it after reading a 5 minute tutorial.
Is it even possible to do the same on an android phone? I have no idea, but willing to bet not.
A Google supporter? 🤔
not me! #grapheneos
The graphene representation on lemmy is insane
absolutely
I'd be using Linux on my laptop too if Destiny 2 supported it.