Spyke
midwest.social

But I thought fascism was only going to happen if Trump is elected? Guess it’s already here, now what do we do??

82
lemmy.world

I know!

let's not vote and get trump elected so that instead of just being arrested, these people are shipped off to a gulag.

That will fix everything!

8
lemmy.world

I think you need a literal rebellion to get the change you want. Glad I don't live there, watching America decay is something else.

15
lemmy.world

Can we first try passing electoral reform at the state level and get rid of the spoiler effect inherent with a First past the post voting system?

How can we steer this car away from the cliff if we are bound and gagged in the back of the cop car?

2

Resist.

Resist the urge to deviate from the plan.

Resists the ideologues who only want violence.

Resist the temptation to sit back and do nothing.

The forces at work here are a Typhoon. We need to be a rock it smashes up against.

1

They act like this is new. Were trying to keep it from devolving further.

2
lemmy.world

This isn't fascism. These people will get a slap on the wrist and be sent home in a day or two. Under fascism these people would never be heard from again.

-43
lemmy.world

So punishing free speech and protest is not fascist provided that they are "only" in jail for a couple of days? Seriously?

Obviously cracking down on protests doesn't mean it's 1930s Germany but it's part of the same playbook, surely?

53
lemmy.world

I'm certainly not defending the silencing of protest. It's just that all fascism is authoritarian, but not all authoritarianism is fascist. Fascism has a specific definition and it's a whole other degree of bad.

6
lemmy.world

Fair enough. It is being used more colloquially in this case, you're right. I retract the accusation of fascism and substitute "an unjust authoritarian crackdown on the right to freedom of speech and expression, undermining the very tenets of democratic society. A national embarrassment."

12
Pup Birureply
aussie.zone

would you be able to link to a page that helps describe fascism as you say: that relies on severity of consequence?

asking because whilst i agree that fascism is specific - and this doesn’t cover it - im not sure that degree of severity is part of the definition and that could be a dangerous precedent to set because the other parts of fascism about control and quashing dissent enable the severe consequences once they are present

8
lemmy.world

I usually go by Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism essay for a definition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism

Suppression of protest would fall under #4 "Disagreement is Treason". Under fascism it is not enough to silence opposition. They must be treated as enemies of the state and be eradicated.

5

really appreciate you taking the effort! i see where you’re coming from with the “enemies of the state” part, and think that id agree there

2
ColeSlothreply
discuss.tchncs.de

It was at a private college campus and the dean suspended all the students protesting and requested to have NYPD come remove them. In other words, the property caretaker was being a dick and had them removed from the premises.

1
lemmy.world

Hmmm.. well that almost sounds like capitalism in a Republic democracy. Shit, now what?

2
ColeSlothreply
discuss.tchncs.de

Keep doing it until almost the entire student body is suspended, or protest off campus?

2
Echreply
lemm.ee

This is fascism-lite. Just because people aren't disappeared doesn't mean it's not in the same category. And the only way we can hope to stop from getting to "actual" fascism is by resisting shit like this.

35

Exactly.

Fascism doesn't come in detended stages, it's tiny increments where the state seizes more power and restricts rights gradually until suddenly you notice that people are disappearing and everyones primary emotion is fear

14
lemmy.world

I don't disagree that silencing protest is bad. It's just not fascism. Fascists kill dissenters.

Treating protestors like this is the norm (though it always must be fought). It's how they were treated during Occupy Wall Street. It's how they were treated during Vietnam and the civil rights fight. Authoritarianism can come from both the left and the right. Fascism is always from the right.

0

Fascists kill dissenters.

Not in the beginning. In the beginning it's more about the economic side of fascism. And that has definitely happened in the US. For decades now.

7

There are certain low effort individuals that try to appropriate words like fascism and Nazi into everything they don't like. They think it helps their cause, but it only makes them look clueless.

0
lemmy.ml

The right to free speech and peaceful protest, what a funny joke.

70
BossDjreply
lemm.ee

So ACAB, and we are a country with stupidly low quality of freedom despite the morons who just think guns=freedom, and fuck this was a BS move.

However, the Constitution states only that the government will not pass laws that interfere with freedom of assembly. Courts have decided that this includes protests, picketing, labor strikes, etc.

Courts have also concluded that this doesn't mean you can assemble wherever you want, namely on private property. These students were essentially just trespassed by the university. Can't really blame the policeor government for this one, unless you want to lean more extreme that they should be saying "fuck off, we disagree". But I'd rather have a system where the police follow the law because I don't trust any of them to make any good decisions on their own morals.

The chief even came out with a statement that was a dig at the university president that he only observed peaceful protest, not the bullshit she was claiming.

-2
intelshillreply
lemmy.ca

UT-Austin is public. University of Minnesota is public. Ohio State is public. All of these schools receive billions in government funding.

11
BossDjreply
lemm.ee

But the article is about Columbia University. A private institution. It is not a public university

-1
lemmy.ca

I just feel the need to tell OP that they are appreciated for posting this, as well as their work in the comments section. Thanks.

56
lemmy.sdf.org

And not a single one of the articles OP posted refer to these as anti-genocide protests.

Every media outlet who keeps framing this as students supporting Palestine or opposing Israel is burying the lede, that these students wouldn’t be supporting or opposing anything if there wasn’t a fucking genocide.

39

Thats why after years of tiktok bans being non starters the shit suddenly happened in like a week - its the only platform they can't bully into censoring any mention of genocide.

12
lemmy.world

I'm a Columbia alum. Thank you op for continuing to bring this story and similar ones from all over the country to Lemmy. Hats off to The Spec for still covering the situation on campus. Shefik somehow hasn't tried shutting them down just yet.

I'm still shocked to think NYPD was actually brought into South Lawn. Even there police chief said everyone was peaceful and they were only there because the president called them in.

36
Cethinreply
lemmy.zip

People should really start linking images directly, or at least link to screenshots of that site instead of linking directly to it. I can't view this, and I won't bother if it's on that site.

21

The more totalitarian a government is, the more the police become henchmen of the leaders.

31

Lol the OP missed the biggest part: journalists are being locked up for daring to photograph this shit

27

The police have ever been henchmen of the capitalist class that has ever ruled this country. Their core purpose is to protect the capitalists’ private property—historically including chattel slaves—and to discipline labor.

Now that we’ve reached imperialism, the monopoly stage of capitalism, the police are brutalizing anyone who stands between the capitalists and their imperial interests, in this case their interests in West Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality#History

Early records suggest that labor strikes were the first large-scale incidents of police brutality in the United States, including events like the Great Railroad Strike of 1877, the Pullman Strike of 1894, the 1912 Lawrence textile strike, the Ludlow massacre of 1914, the Great Steel Strike of 1919, and the Hanapepe massacre of 1924.

The racist roots of American policing: From slave patrols to traffic stops

TL;DR: ACAB

27
Lizreply
midwest.social

For real though, if the protesters all showed up open carrying rifles the cops would just stand back and watch.

9

Eh, not quite what I was going for.

This is the tyranny that an armed populace is supposed to be protection from.

But thinking about it, an armed protest would be among the first steps.

2
lemmy.ca

Why is this escalating so much faster than the 1989 Chinese democracy protests or the 2019 Hong Kong protests? In those cases, it took weeks for arrests to happen and months for force to be deployed. Most law enforcement in those cases were unarmed.

19
lemmy.ml

Because Chinese police and military exist for different reasons than US police and military

13
lemmy.nz

Repression of the citizens and projection of power externally?

1
lemmy.ml

Yes, vs Chinese police and Military existing to protect the revolution.

2
lemmy.nz

Derp. I'd entirely forgotten about the red guard while writing that. In terms of enforcing the revolution.

...And every other police state for that matter.

Thanks.

1
lemmy.ml

Sorry, are you saying red guards enforced every other police state? Or that all police states exist to protect the revolution? Both statements seem very nonsensical

2

Sorry, I wrote that when I was tired.

All police states exist to enforce their own states... Which is a bit of a tautology so just ignore that bit.

1

It's now abundantly clear that US universities are controlled by Zionists.

7

The lack of justice system reforms across the nation is the 1% telling us the George floydd protests didn't go far enough.

2

I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to thank you, OP, for the comments/links in the thread.

1

America trying to reach the same level of Nazism as israel. Bidolf Hitler is on the case.

-3