I want others to return their carts so I expect the same from myself. Unironically, we live in a society, so that means cooperation for things to run smoothly
This is Contractualism. If anyone wants to learn more about this moral philosophy, you can read Scanlon's What We Owe to Each Other, or for a better time, watch The Good Place.
And don't forget all the jobs you make at the auto body shops fixing damage from carts! And all the jobs at the shopping cart factories from having to replace broken carts!
haha! that's Gary Oldman's character in The Fifth Element. One of the best movies and one of his best characters IMO. There is a scene where he's dragged the priest into his office and after being accused by the priest of wanting to destroy life, as a rebuttal he breaks a glass on the floor which sets a flurry of automatic cleaning robots into action and says the destruction he caused creates work for robots which means work for the robot makers and enables them to have children. Something like that. I should have just linked the scene instead of trying to summarize from memory but of course who has time for a video link for everything? destruction creates life
I've done cart balancing enough times to say it's really not a big deal. I'd rather collect stray carts than distribute the ones sticking out over three parking lot lanes to emptier cart sheds. I also used to feel bad for staff etc, our manager did carts a lot, other stuff etc again, but when I really think about it, fuck supermarkets.
As far as being a nice person or whatever, I will hand over the cart to someone arriving as I'm leaving. I will not take their coin because I use a shim that cannot be retained by the lock to unlock the cart rather than a coin.
As someone who's had the job of bringing carts in before... why are you redistributing them instead of bringing them inside? Was that just the policy at whatever store you worked at.
Oh, I see. My experience is with a store that didn’t have enough carts, or a big enough parking lot, to justify sheds. The carts were all lined up at the front of the store, and that was it.
I guess a lot of stores have different methods. I can't remember which but one had this crazy cart wash and dispensing machine.
Ours were an afterthought and placed in the parking lot. A few times the whole stack would lose hold on the end chain in the shed and cars have been hit by runaway cart trains.
The fuck? How many emergencies do you think people have immediately after exciting a store? The vast majority of people who don't return their carts are just lazy.
Wow, you mean literally every single one of the hundreds of Walmart customers today had a life threatening accident, and had to leave their cart in the middle of the road, or absolutely anywhere other than the corral? Woah, that's my bad for being judgemental!
If you have time to pay for your groceries, wheel them out to the car and load them up, but you don’t also have the time to return the cart, it’s not an emergency. Either stop your shopping and hurry wherever you need to go asap or take the time to be a decent person.
The shopping cart is the ultimate litmus test for whether a person is capable of self-governing.
To return the shopping cart is an easy, convenient task and one which we all recognize as the correct, appropriate thing to do. To return the shopping cart is objectively right. There are no situations other than dire emergencies in which a person is not able to return their cart. Simultaneously, it is not illegal to abandon your shopping cart. Therefore the shopping cart presents itself as the apex example of whether a person will do what is right without being forced to do it. No one will punish you for not returning the shopping cart, no one will fine you or kill you for not returning the shopping cart, you gain nothing by returning the shopping cart. You must return the shopping cart out of the goodness of your own heart. You must return the shopping cart because it is the right thing to do. Because it is correct.
A person who is unable to do this is no better than an animal, an absolute savage who can only be made to do what is right by threatening them with a law and the force that stands behind it.
The Shopping Cart is what determines whether a person is a good or bad member of society.
People really should be taught rhetoric in schools.
You said heads, they said no tails...
It would seem to me they don't realize you are all describing the same coin. Yet they downvote based on their emotional response and demonstrate their lack of reading comprehension.
Justify not putting the cart back without the root reason being that you're selfish (too lazy, in a hurry, not my job, cart return is too far away, etc). Go ahead, I'll wait.
i got hit by a car while trying to return the cart and the medics forced me to go to the hospital despite my dying wish being for someone to return the cart
The cart is probably either damaged, or has your blood all over it, or both, so it's in no condition to be used right now anyways. Thank you for at least trying to return it, I'll spread the word about your GoFundMe (for either your bills or funeral).
If it's a nice day it gives the employee in charge of rounding up carts a chance to go outside and no longer be under the direct eye of management, and maybe even get to see a beautiful sunset in the evening.
When I worked at Whole Foods I loved when a cart was way in the outfield. I got some fresh air and I didn't have to deal with angry customers.
I'll give you this one, because your intentions are good. I will suggest, however, that not everyone who is collecting carts has the same outlook. This would be highly season- and weather-dependent as well.
I don't know the word for this argument, but I would say the "not everyone likes collecting carts" is kinda not the best argument only because you could say the same thing the other way. Like there are people who like collecting the carts and are sad to see them put away (like me).
I worked in the PNW when I was at whole foods, and summer in Seattle is phenomenal but I know it's not always like that elsewhere.
So the new rule is "put the cart away unless you live in Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, parts of Idaho and northern California, and southern Alaska, given that it is between the dates of June 1 through September 31st, and the weather is nice to help combat the Seasonal Affect Disorder"
This is the perfect rule of morality and I will not be taking questions.
You do gain something though. By not contributing to the problem the overall likelihood that other people also don't contribute increases because they see a cart put away instead of a herd of them roaming the parking lot. Same as being polite when you aren't required to be.
Society exists because most people choose not to be assholes.
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."
The categorical imperative, Immanuel Kant
Oh yeah smart guy? Then is it still a categorical imperative if returning the cart will somehow result in greater harm than good, say if the employees are paid based on the number of carts they retrieve from improper positions? If not, then what use are maxims if they cannot take into account the specifics of a situation? Are they just a matter of logical coherence, or can they be used for actual decision-making?
The shopping cart thing is no longer a good test of character. The whole idea is there's no reward for doing it and no punishment for not doing it. Now that everyone knows that there's a large contingent of the population who could be judging them for their actions, it's not the same thing anymore. It's more like a test of how a panopticon situation effects people.
Id like to run a test where we silently observe cart return behaviour on hidden camera, and compare return rates with when we station people outside the shops to stare at cart users who are loading their shopping into their cars
Tldr funny cart moment from a guy who didn't realize I could see him until too late
I was once chilling in the car for a second after putting groceries away when the guy adjecent to me finished unloading, pushed the cart about 2ft away, made eye contact with me, then proceeded to act like he was stretching and not stepping back toward his car. It was a comical amount of time between the stepping away, eye contact pause, awkward stretch and grab the cart again
I would not be surprised if you got different behavior at different stores and at different times.
Walmart would be way down there next to Dollar Tree. Aldi's at the top because it requires a quarter - which is worth far more than $0.25 because who carries change anymore?
These things aren’t just tests of characters. They also generate character. It’s a feedback loop, and it’s okay if you do things with a known context of judgment, because just adhering to the rules grows your credit with society.
Here in finland you have to insert a coin in there. It gets released when you chain the shopping cart back to another shopping cart or the roof thingy where they go. Works like a charm. Very few loose carts
Robotic carts needs to happen. It would be so easy. Someone would make a fortune. Give the carts arms and bow ties, and you can fire your entire human staff.
I figure if I'm annoyed about the problem then I shouldn't contribute to it. It's also very quick and easy, even if the cart return is a whole 50 feet away. People that don't are just very lazy.
The car’s paint job is a status symbol. It represents a person’s having maintained control of their own shit for sufficient time to afford a shiny car. It’s artistic expression too, like clothing.
They are in a big stack that can be moved all at once. If there's a free roaming cart blowing around the parking lot an employee would probably have to go get it individually so it doesn't attack the cars.
Ha, no, I'm more sadistic. I leave it in the lane. Then watch out my mirrors to see how many cars drive around it instead of stopping to at least move it out of the way.
No. Not only will I give a worker a better thing to do than interacting with some schmuck (this is seasonally dependent, and depends on the worker), I will impede the progress of cars through the parking lot, which is funny, and good, because I hate the parking lot. If I do this enough, I will singlehandedly force everyone to park farther and farther back in the parking lot, as spaces are taken up by uncompressed carts, walking more and more to get to the store. Minorly decreasing the revenue of the mega-chain as people refuse to drive, and increasing the cardiovascular health of everyone shopping at the store. Decreasing traffic, perhaps even decreasing car-centricity. Society would be better off, if we all refused to return the carts, and perhaps, I do not want to compromise on my moral code and ideal for a just society, just because nobody else is doing it. We are manipulated, out of our willingness to be just to those around us, into creating a collectively unjust society.
So, really, I'm like some kind of hero. Everyone should be thanking me, for not returning the carts. Everyone should be thanking me, for shitting on the street. After all, when someone steps in it, it will simply illustrate to them the injustice that is a lack of access to public restrooms. They'll intuit that, I'm sure of it, probably it would be communicated from something in the smell, if I had to guess.
Because people tend to think on the way from the store to their car. And they wonder what kind of people just leave their carts out in the parking lot when there is a cart return just over yonder.
Although... people not thinking when they are going from the store to their car could very well be the cause of this.
As someone else with small people depending on me - I +1 this. It's easier now that mine are a little older but when they were toddlers or babies I didn't always return the cart.
I want others to return their carts so I expect the same from myself. Unironically, we live in a society, so that means cooperation for things to run smoothly
This is Contractualism. If anyone wants to learn more about this moral philosophy, you can read Scanlon's What We Owe to Each Other, or for a better time, watch The Good Place.
More generally, this is the philosophy of deontology, or the study of duty/obligations if anyone is interested in seeing the whole eco system
The Good Place taught me that the solution to this problem is to let the cart run loose and kill the guy pulling the lever.
The cart corral things were invented in my lifetime, before that we were expected to walk that shit all the way back into the store.
And don't forget all the jobs you make at the auto body shops fixing damage from carts! And all the jobs at the shopping cart factories from having to replace broken carts!
Hi there, Jean Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
haha! that's Gary Oldman's character in The Fifth Element. One of the best movies and one of his best characters IMO. There is a scene where he's dragged the priest into his office and after being accused by the priest of wanting to destroy life, as a rebuttal he breaks a glass on the floor which sets a flurry of automatic cleaning robots into action and says the destruction he caused creates work for robots which means work for the robot makers and enables them to have children. Something like that. I should have just linked the scene instead of trying to summarize from memory but of course who has time for a video link for everything? destruction creates life
You gain nothing, but you retain self-respect.
Its not often I get to enjoy the thought of being objectively better than THAT person
You gain the knowledge that you didn’t make a retail worker’s day even shittier.
I've done cart balancing enough times to say it's really not a big deal. I'd rather collect stray carts than distribute the ones sticking out over three parking lot lanes to emptier cart sheds. I also used to feel bad for staff etc, our manager did carts a lot, other stuff etc again, but when I really think about it, fuck supermarkets.
As far as being a nice person or whatever, I will hand over the cart to someone arriving as I'm leaving. I will not take their coin because I use a shim that cannot be retained by the lock to unlock the cart rather than a coin.
As someone who's had the job of bringing carts in before... why are you redistributing them instead of bringing them inside? Was that just the policy at whatever store you worked at.
There was no inside place for them, just the parking lot sheds.
Oh, I see. My experience is with a store that didn’t have enough carts, or a big enough parking lot, to justify sheds. The carts were all lined up at the front of the store, and that was it.
I guess a lot of stores have different methods. I can't remember which but one had this crazy cart wash and dispensing machine. Ours were an afterthought and placed in the parking lot. A few times the whole stack would lose hold on the end chain in the shed and cars have been hit by runaway cart trains.
Return the cart and make sure they're all nested with each other so the cart guy has an easier job
Return the cart and make sure they're all nested with each other
so the cart guy has an easier jobbecause it's satisfying.This maybe pick up a stray cart on the way too.
Yup. Or help somebody else out with their cart. Feels great.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this.
I just bring them all the way back to the store, is this psychotic behaviour?
People complain about capitalism but there is never a loose cart in the aldi parking lot.
Dang, did that emerge from 4chan? I thought it was from some psychologist or some shit like that
The fuck? How many emergencies do you think people have immediately after exciting a store? The vast majority of people who don't return their carts are just lazy.
Wow, you mean literally every single one of the hundreds of Walmart customers today had a life threatening accident, and had to leave their cart in the middle of the road, or absolutely anywhere other than the corral? Woah, that's my bad for being judgemental!
He doesn't like to return his cart, that's what
He's an idiot, that's the issue.
You both are saying the same thing...
If you have time to pay for your groceries, wheel them out to the car and load them up, but you don’t also have the time to return the cart, it’s not an emergency. Either stop your shopping and hurry wherever you need to go asap or take the time to be a decent person.
It literally accounts for emergencies.
The shopping cart is the ultimate litmus test for whether a person is capable of self-governing.
To return the shopping cart is an easy, convenient task and one which we all recognize as the correct, appropriate thing to do. To return the shopping cart is objectively right. There are no situations other than dire emergencies in which a person is not able to return their cart. Simultaneously, it is not illegal to abandon your shopping cart. Therefore the shopping cart presents itself as the apex example of whether a person will do what is right without being forced to do it. No one will punish you for not returning the shopping cart, no one will fine you or kill you for not returning the shopping cart, you gain nothing by returning the shopping cart. You must return the shopping cart out of the goodness of your own heart. You must return the shopping cart because it is the right thing to do. Because it is correct.
A person who is unable to do this is no better than an animal, an absolute savage who can only be made to do what is right by threatening them with a law and the force that stands behind it.
The Shopping Cart is what determines whether a person is a good or bad member of society.
Now....what about people that back into parking spots when there are no "back in parking only" signs.
And what exactly is your concern about that?
found the asshole
Uh oh, one of our big giant bold huge gigantic large names has deleted an opinion..
You have failed the test.
People really should be taught rhetoric in schools.
You said heads, they said no tails...
It would seem to me they don't realize you are all describing the same coin. Yet they downvote based on their emotional response and demonstrate their lack of reading comprehension.
Sad and hilarious.
Justify not putting the cart back without the root reason being that you're selfish (too lazy, in a hurry, not my job, cart return is too far away, etc). Go ahead, I'll wait.
i got hit by a car while trying to return the cart and the medics forced me to go to the hospital despite my dying wish being for someone to return the cart
The cart is probably either damaged, or has your blood all over it, or both, so it's in no condition to be used right now anyways. Thank you for at least trying to return it, I'll spread the word about your GoFundMe (for either your bills or funeral).
don't worry about me. just get the fund set up for the replacement cart. that's all that matters
If it's a nice day it gives the employee in charge of rounding up carts a chance to go outside and no longer be under the direct eye of management, and maybe even get to see a beautiful sunset in the evening.
When I worked at Whole Foods I loved when a cart was way in the outfield. I got some fresh air and I didn't have to deal with angry customers.
I'll give you this one, because your intentions are good. I will suggest, however, that not everyone who is collecting carts has the same outlook. This would be highly season- and weather-dependent as well.
I frequently collected carts in the summer heat and it always resulted in me being a damp sweaty mess for the rest of the workday.
Haha thanks!
I don't know the word for this argument, but I would say the "not everyone likes collecting carts" is kinda not the best argument only because you could say the same thing the other way. Like there are people who like collecting the carts and are sad to see them put away (like me).
I worked in the PNW when I was at whole foods, and summer in Seattle is phenomenal but I know it's not always like that elsewhere.
So the new rule is "put the cart away unless you live in Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, parts of Idaho and northern California, and southern Alaska, given that it is between the dates of June 1 through September 31st, and the weather is nice to help combat the Seasonal Affect Disorder"
This is the perfect rule of morality and I will not be taking questions.
I'm not into performing unpaid labor for for-profit companies.
I put the cart back anyway but I'll never tell someone they're wrong for not doing it.
You do gain something though. By not contributing to the problem the overall likelihood that other people also don't contribute increases because they see a cart put away instead of a herd of them roaming the parking lot. Same as being polite when you aren't required to be.
Society exists because most people choose not to be assholes.
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law." The categorical imperative, Immanuel Kant
Oh yeah smart guy? Then is it still a categorical imperative if returning the cart will somehow result in greater harm than good, say if the employees are paid based on the number of carts they retrieve from improper positions? If not, then what use are maxims if they cannot take into account the specifics of a situation? Are they just a matter of logical coherence, or can they be used for actual decision-making?
ANSWER THE QUESTION
I don't "gain nothing" from returning the cart! It feels good to do the right thing!
How does that boot taste?
What are you talking about?
Oh, I thought that's what people said to each other on Lemmy. Like a standard Lemmy greeting.
Uh-huh...
Always. While everyone tries to park close to the entrance, I park close to the stall. I park in the same spot at my grocery store 90% of the time.
I put the cart in the back of a random truck.
If they're parked like an asshole taking up more than one space then I'd say it's justified.
I get my 50 euro cents back
Is that half a euro?
I think it's a milli-euro?
The shopping cart thing is no longer a good test of character. The whole idea is there's no reward for doing it and no punishment for not doing it. Now that everyone knows that there's a large contingent of the population who could be judging them for their actions, it's not the same thing anymore. It's more like a test of how a panopticon situation effects people.
ding ding
Id like to run a test where we silently observe cart return behaviour on hidden camera, and compare return rates with when we station people outside the shops to stare at cart users who are loading their shopping into their cars
Tldr funny cart moment from a guy who didn't realize I could see him until too late
I was once chilling in the car for a second after putting groceries away when the guy adjecent to me finished unloading, pushed the cart about 2ft away, made eye contact with me, then proceeded to act like he was stretching and not stepping back toward his car. It was a comical amount of time between the stepping away, eye contact pause, awkward stretch and grab the cart again
I would not be surprised if you got different behavior at different stores and at different times.
Walmart would be way down there next to Dollar Tree. Aldi's at the top because it requires a quarter - which is worth far more than $0.25 because who carries change anymore?
Unless you're in Europe
These things aren’t just tests of characters. They also generate character. It’s a feedback loop, and it’s okay if you do things with a known context of judgment, because just adhering to the rules grows your credit with society.
This, but for people who block traffic stopping on the curb instead of pulling into a parking space so they won't have to walk a whole extra 50 steps.
I do it every time because I'm not one of those bad words you can say on other websites.
Lazy bones?
shhhhhh
What words can't you say on lemmy? I assumed there are no restrictions outside like racial slurs. Cunts? Assholes? Retards?
Here in finland you have to insert a coin in there. It gets released when you chain the shopping cart back to another shopping cart or the roof thingy where they go. Works like a charm. Very few loose carts
We have that in the US as well. Just not every store gets those. Guessing that enough people just consider it a payment for not putting the cart back.
Where in the US? I've never seen anything like this.
I've seen this at the Aldi stores near me here in the Northeast US
Aldi is actually a European store (specifically German if I'm not mistaken), so that makes sense.
Same. I also never have coins.
I return it, and also try to make sure there's space, by nesting it, and the few in front of it.
Same. But I mostly do it because I just like slamming my carts into other carts and pretending it's a multiple car pile up.
Always.
Do you move out of the dual-purpose right-hand turning lane when you know you're going straight before a red light?
I do! Well, when I know I'll have time to get back over before my turn.
Actually yes. And if I can't, I pull as far forward and left as possible to let cars turn.
This is really all I would need to know about a potential date.
i gain getting to go fast on the cart for a few seconds and hopping up on it so jokes on you
Hmmm cart tracks... Line following robots... Time for a technological solution to this social problem 😹
Robotic carts needs to happen. It would be so easy. Someone would make a fortune. Give the carts arms and bow ties, and you can fire your entire human staff.
what incentive do shops have to spend massive amounts of money on expensive carts? the current system works pretty good for them.
Robotic carts with bowties?
Return whose cart?
Mario's
I toss the cart down in the ditch so I can come back later to take it home.
Bubbles? Is that you?
Of course we do, Narcateers!
Gotta get my rare sweet hit of self appreciation
Consequentialists: Not worth
I figure if I'm annoyed about the problem then I shouldn't contribute to it. It's also very quick and easy, even if the cart return is a whole 50 feet away. People that don't are just very lazy.
Justan Posterson
it's not a duty
It’s okay. The store is happy to provide that service. The social contract part is about protecting everyone’s cars from rogue wind-sped carts
Replace car with anything you own and ask yourself if you would like strangers to treat your belongings that way.
The car’s paint job is a status symbol. It represents a person’s having maintained control of their own shit for sufficient time to afford a shiny car. It’s artistic expression too, like clothing.
They are in a big stack that can be moved all at once. If there's a free roaming cart blowing around the parking lot an employee would probably have to go get it individually so it doesn't attack the cars.
Exactly, free range carts are violent and should be stopped at all costs!
Hmm you just got the cart wrangler fired. Nice.
Ha, no, I'm more sadistic. I leave it in the lane. Then watch out my mirrors to see how many cars drive around it instead of stopping to at least move it out of the way.
No. Not only will I give a worker a better thing to do than interacting with some schmuck (this is seasonally dependent, and depends on the worker), I will impede the progress of cars through the parking lot, which is funny, and good, because I hate the parking lot. If I do this enough, I will singlehandedly force everyone to park farther and farther back in the parking lot, as spaces are taken up by uncompressed carts, walking more and more to get to the store. Minorly decreasing the revenue of the mega-chain as people refuse to drive, and increasing the cardiovascular health of everyone shopping at the store. Decreasing traffic, perhaps even decreasing car-centricity. Society would be better off, if we all refused to return the carts, and perhaps, I do not want to compromise on my moral code and ideal for a just society, just because nobody else is doing it. We are manipulated, out of our willingness to be just to those around us, into creating a collectively unjust society.
So, really, I'm like some kind of hero. Everyone should be thanking me, for not returning the carts. Everyone should be thanking me, for shitting on the street. After all, when someone steps in it, it will simply illustrate to them the injustice that is a lack of access to public restrooms. They'll intuit that, I'm sure of it, probably it would be communicated from something in the smell, if I had to guess.
You seem pretty manipulative yourself.
yeah I like to think so
You're an icon of chaos
Because people tend to think on the way from the store to their car. And they wonder what kind of people just leave their carts out in the parking lot when there is a cart return just over yonder.
Although... people not thinking when they are going from the store to their car could very well be the cause of this.
Put the kid in the car and lock it then put the cart up ffs
Just put the cart back man...
Make the kid put the cart back. Like why even have one if you aren't going to use it?
As someone else with small people depending on me - I +1 this. It's easier now that mine are a little older but when they were toddlers or babies I didn't always return the cart.