So I thought to myself…why?

Why? There are various arguments as to why the old audio jack standard is obsolete, but this discussion was essentially settled with the Fairphone 4, which was the first one that did not have a headphone jack. And they released a detailed article describing their reasoning..

https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9836188988049-Audio-jack-3-5mm

The community has been requesting this for a couple years

The community? It's not as if Fairphone just willy nilly decided to get rid of the headphone jack, this was done with feedback from the community in mind.. Just because you are loud and passionate doesn't mean that your opinion is the only one that represents the community's.. As a fairphone user and "member of the community", I say fuck the 3.5 mm jack.. It's an ancient standard that was obsolete years ago,

And just to be clear, this isn't a discussion about wireless vs wired earbuds. You can have wired USB earbuds, you can even use your old 3.5 mm jack headphones with an adaptor. This is a discussion whether we should switch back to an ancient and inferior standard just because you are used to it..

Just add the headphone jack, shouldn’t be too hard.

And this entitled and wilfully ignorant attitude will make people take you even less seriously.. You can't "just add the headphone jack", decisions like that have an impact on all of the design of the device and have to be carefully evaluated.. You simply going "come on just do it, how hard can it be" will not convince anyone..

I have been running my own server for a few years now. I would describe it more as an alternative for What's App or Signal than an alternative to discord. I think it's more used in a professional/and or government setting for organisations who need to run their own services.

Also, Matrix is just the protocol behind it and there are quite a few different clients for it, the most popular one is element. Lemmy.world also has a link to their Matrix instance.

Wtf is this comment? So you either "turn the other cheek" and just let him harrass you, or else "you have to ruin his life and make him wish he was never born"?

You are right that OP doesn't have to "turn the other cheek" and does not have to put up with people's shit, but just because you should not turn yourself into a masochist that does not mean you should turn yourself into a sadist..

There’s not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.

What's the conclusion of this claim? That we shouldn't consume anything at all? That it doesn't matter what we consume as it all is equally unethical?

Even if you believe that all consumption is unethical, there are still differences in impact and effect depending on what we consume and how much we consume.

It isn’t environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.

Of course not, but who is urging people to replace their new/working smartphone with a fairphone?

The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money

From a price/quality perspective, the fairphone has always been "bad".. You pay the price of a upper mid smartphone and get older mid tech. That's because the fairphone's main appeal is it's modularity and their focus on "sustainable" production, which of course has it's price.

If your main focus is price and affordability, the fairphone is a bad choice.

No, the drive letter is not static. If a drive was a train, the drive letter would be the platform number where the train arrives. Or if a drive was a plane, the drive letter would be the gate number.

Windows generally assigns the same drive letter to the same device, but if you want to, you could change drive letters randomly whenever you feel like it. The only thing windows needs is that every device has a different letter so that it can differentiate between them, but it doesn't necessarily matter which has which letter.

Wireless headphones aren't the only available option.. There are USB earplugs and there are adapters. The only argument you have is "but I can't charge my phone while listening to music"..

still claim that people don’t use phones for music.

But I have never claimed that "people don't use phones for music", I claimed that most people don't use their phone to listen to music on their headphones.. Many do, me included, but most simply don't..

If you ignore all the people that care about an issue you will conclude that no one cares.

But I don't conclude that nobody cares.. Obviously at least some people care, this post was made by somebody who does for example.. But the thing is that a majority of people don't..

Yeah wtf was that comment and how is it upvoted? Sure, OP doesn't need to take shit and can fight back, but "ruining people's lifes"? Conspiring with other people to "make him wish he was never born"? Gerting him fired? How is that supposed to be useful? How does that solve anything?

Wow, that’s a bold statement.

If you think that it is a bold statement you absolutely live in a bubble..

in the sense that most people in the world don’t own a phone.

Most people in the world do own a phone.. About 75% of the global population.. It's just that most use it to access the internet, write mails or, you know, call people..

As your study says, young people do listen to music on their phones. It even surprises me a bit that they only listen to 44% of their music on their phone, but otherwise, no objection. But not every smartphone user is a young person.. And even those that do use their phone to listen to music, not all of them listen with headphones. Many use it to play music in their car, or connect it to speakers, or even use their built in speakers, etc.

I think you’re looking at yourself and thinking that everyone is using a phone the same way you do.

I used to, but the thing is, I do actually listen to music on my phone. Not as much as I used to, but I still do from time to time. And many in my immediate environment do too. But overtime, I realized that most people don't use their phone the same way I do, especially older people and non-technical savy people. Most listen to music in their car, or on the radio.

In reality people were used to just plugging their headphones into heir phone and now they can’t.

In reality, most people simply did not really care very much.. And more importantly, virtually nobody cares today..

New standard was pushed on them and the only reason was to make some extra money on AirPods.

Correct, and virtually everyone just shrugged and accepted it because most people did not care all that much..

So yeah, people will move on in the end but they are right to complain.

My dude, people have already moved on years ago... Apple removed the jack in 2017.. Which is why I think it's ridiculous that people still act as if this is a controversial issue, let alone a dealbreaker, looking towards the future..

You keep making the same point

You made a claim that I wrote something I didn't write, do you expect me to just let you put words into my mouth?

You have a different standard.

The vast majority of people interested in the fairphone have "a different standard"..

But for me what Apple did was wrong.

Ok, great, you have an opinion. An opinion I can completely understand. What does it have to do with this post though?

Mini jack was not obsolete

It wasn't. But it's not 2017 anymore..

Even you admitted they only did it for profit

Of course they did, why else would they do it, they are a company.

just don't criticize people that do care.

I will criticize whoever I want because it's fucking annoying to have the self-rightous jack defenders pretend martyrers proudly proclaim that they will sacrifice themself and not buy the newest fairphone because "fairphone went against community demands" and act as if they are the majority and represent the views of "the community" IN 2023..

They don't.. Most people in the fairphone community didn't care about the jack back when it was removed.. Most members of the community preferred a slimmer phone to a headphone jack back when the last fairphone was released. And despite of this, you still had some loud-mouths who acted as if their opinions alone represent "the community", ignored all the discussion in the community and claimed that fairphone acted against community interest.

And as "a member of the fairphone community", I didn't say anything, like most who don't care about the jack, because I don't care about the jack, I care about being able to change parts, I care about it lasting for many years and I care about it being small enough to fit in my pocket comfortably.

That was years ago, back when the fairphone decided to do this. And now, the upcoming model doesn't bring it back (to the surprise of virtually nobody) and you have the same wannabe martyrers saying stuff like "just bring it back, how hard can it be, the community demands it".. No, the community doesn't demand it.. The community demands a modular and long lasting phone that is slim and cheap at the same time..

we'll do it as long as we can

Do whatever pointless posturing you want, just don't act as if you are in the majority or represent all of a community when you don't..

What I mean that you’re only point is “you’re not the majority so shut up”.

My only point is "you're not the majority", you don't even need to shut up, you can have whatever opinion you want to have, just don't pretend to represent "the community" when you don't..

Me having a mini jack in the phone doesn’t mean that you, a person that doesn’t care about one, is somehow disadvantaged.

It's an additional port that needs to be included into the design and that needs physical space. And it's another way to get dust and/or fluids into the phone, all without any benefit for me or most users.. You can claim that the impact is minimal, but there still is an unnecessary impact.

You agreed already that Apple didn’t remove the mini jack to make the phone smaller, it was just to make more money.

Everything apple does and other companies do is to make more money, that's pretty much the entire motivation behind anything companies do..

It’s the same 7 years later, people still don’t believe it’s for any other reason than to make a little bit more money.

Of course it is to "make more money", or rather to save money on things that have no measurable benefit for most users..

Ok, so you’re a docile consumer. When company does something you don’t like you just say 'well, I’m in the minority, I will still just buy it without complaining".

No, when a company does something I don't like or that is a dealbreaker for me, I don't buy the product..

It’s just weird you’re so annoyed with people who do complain, especially on lemmy.

People can complain about whatever they want. What is annoying to me is when people say stuff like "the community has been requesting this for a couple years ago now so why not." or "adding a little headphone jack shouldn’t be that hard" when this debate has been settled years ago already..

Linux has ~3% market share. I guess we should just stop complaining when companies don’t support it, majority of people don’t care. Most people don’t care about privacy, they care about cheap and easy products, let’s stop complaining about Google and Meta tracking everyone.

Again, you can complain all you want. But if somebody made a post saying "Google is still using, selling and tracking user data. The community has been requesting that they stop doing that years ago, so why do they still do it? They only do it to make money. Just stop doing it, shouldn't be too hard.", it would in my opinion be a ridiculous and pointless post..

This isn't a discussion about wireless vs wired though, this is a discussion about whether or not an ancient standard that has already been replaced should be reintroduced just because some people have been using that standard for a long time..

There are USB wired hearphones, there are even adaptors for your old 3.5 mm jack devices, so how is this about wireless vs wired?

This is how it should be done: you introduce new, better standards, people switch and when it’s actually obsolete (no one is using it any more) you remove it.

I think there is a fair argument to be made that back when apple pushed away from it, it was forced. I personally didn't care, but I understand why some people did.

But that's not what we are talking about, we are talking about today.. What's done is done..

People were (and are) still using mini jacks

Most people weren't and certainly aren't.. The people who still cling to the jack never seem to understand this, but most smartphone users simply don't care about audio quality on their phone.. Most people don't even listen to music on their phone.. And among those who do, most don't care or even notice the loss of quality with wireless.. And for the few who care, there are alternatives, such as adapters..

And just as a reminder, we are talking about the upcoming fairphone 5, a device that has the goal of lasting 10 years.. There is no reasonable justification for putting a port on it that has by now virtually disappeared from the smartphone market and that most people would never use..

No, they are not essential.. And this isn't a discussion about wireless vs wired earbuds.. USB headphones/earphones are a thing, the fact that you don't like wireless is not an excuse to demand that an ancient and obsolete standard should be reinstated when you have plenty of options to use wired devices without a 3.5 mm headphone jack..

First: nothing you buy will ever be free from exploitation under this system.

Ok but again, even if you think so, there are still different degrees of exploitation. Saying "nothing I buy will ever be free from exploitation" can also be used as an argument not to care about exploitation at all..

buying one product over another will make no difference in society and the world.

Of course it will.. You can argue that the difference it makes is so small that it is essentially 0, but it still makes a difference..

but they never manage to end the harmful production pattern that these companies were applying in the first place.

Just because you buying a more sustainably produced smartphone doesn't solve all the problems in the world doesn't mean that it has 0 impact..

In the end, conscious consumption only serves to feel good (falsely) about yourself.

No, it also demonstrates a way to improve something, even if that improvement is minuscule.. It also shows the potential issues and problems that come with it.. I would never claim that somebody buying a fairphone is changing the world, of course that would be ridiculous. Individual consumer choices indeed don't have a big impact on systemic issues.

The only thing they have in common with vegans is that they are a vocal minority with a strong opinion, and those can of course be annyoing if you aren't part of the group.

They are closer to reactionaries and conservatives who want hang on to an ancient standard/tradition mostly just because they are used to it and because it is tradition..

You can get wired USB earplugs, you can get cheap adapters for your old earplugs, so it's not as if people are forced to use wireless.

This is just an ancient technology being replaced with a new technology, and instead of embracing the new tech and demanding improvements or solutions to problems with the new tech, some people just instinctly demand a return to the past without compromise.

with an apple-esque “you are doing it wrong” attitude

You make it seem as if it was just apple that wants to get rid of the 3.5mm jack in the smartphone market, which is simply not true.. I don't care for apple at all and I don't see what apple has to do with this discussion.. That discussion has already been had, back when the fairphone 4 was released, but some people still make the exact same arguments as in the years before..

focusing on the actual subject matter - the 3.5mm jack itself

The subject isn't whether the 3.5mm jack itself is a viable standard.. The subject is if it is a viable standard for modern smartphones.. And by now, the direction is clear..

I don't see the 3.5mm jack disappearing completely anytime soon, but in the modern smartphone world, I don't see a reason why we should cling to the 3.5mm jack when we already have USB as a standard that has the same functionality.. Especially now, when the switch has already happened..

Here’s why I don’t feel as if bluetooth or dongles are an appropriate replacement

Great, but can you also tell me why USB cable headphones are not an appropriate replacement? This is what I find so frustrating about this discussion, people always pretend that the options are either keeping the 3.5 mm headphone jack forever or using bluetooth headphones..

Some people will just swallow propaganda, and defend corporations even going against their own interests.

Or maybe some people just don't care about using their smartphone as a premium audio device? The audio jack on a smartphone servers no purpose to me, it hasn't for years before smartphone manufacturers started moving away from it. It's nothing more than a unused plug that can potentially break and whether you like it or not, most people nowadays have the same opinion as me..

There was a discussion to be had back when apple started to push for it, one can even argue that this was forced by apple before it's time. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about today, about what should happen with this upcoming phone that is supposed to be functional for 10 years..

The idea that they should reintroduce a standard that has since almost completely disappeared in the smartphone world because a small minority of people want to connect professional studio headphones that are about as expensive as the smartphone itself is absolutely ridiculous..

Can u name a solution for this that doesn’t involve replacing dongles constantly

No, but I don't get why anybody owes you a solution.. We are talking about smartphones here, not professional audio devices.. Most people don't care about using professional studio headsets with their smartphone, so I don't understand why you expect smartphone manufactureres bending themselves over backwards just to satisfy a small minority of people like you when that would mean that 90% of people now have a plug that they never use..

obsolete (adjective) No longer in use.

And once more it turns into an argument about definitions.. I thought it was clear from context, but I'm using "obsolete" here to mean "old fashioned" or "outdated", a perfectly viable way to use the word "obsolete" if you ask me.. And I mainly used it because as I mentioned, this discussion was settled with the previous fairphone.. Perhaps a better word to use is redundant and/or outdated.

The fact that I can go to literally any electronics store and choose from dozens of different 3.5mm jack headphones

The jack has been THE standard for decades, arguably centuries.. Frankly, I am surprised how fast the smartphone world switched. But of course it doesn't disappear over night, but that doesn't make it any less outdated/obsolete or whatever word you want to use here.. And there will still be viable headphones with the 3.5 mm audio jack, just not in the smartphone world.. That's why I wrote "the standard is obsolete when it comes to modern smartphones"..

The 3.5 mm jack is going to disappear from the smartphone world completely. Will it still be useful in some other cases? Sure, I don't see a viable replacement in some parts of the audio world. But in the smartphone world, where every single mm has an impact, it is, in my opinion, simply obsolete, especially when you already have other interfaces built in that essentially can do the same thing already.. It's just additional space being used that is not needed..

Yes, with time more and more people will buy USB-C headphones, it will become a standard

It already is a standard and it has been a standard for almost 10 years by now..

phones makers, following Apples stupid idea, started doing it first.

Of course they did, nobody wanted to be first to challenge a standard that was always the norm with portable devices, but no smartphone manufacturer wants a plug in their device that is unnecessary or redundant, which is why most followed once the first major player made the move.

Why start removing jack where they are used the most?

Because at the end of the day, it's useless space.. And I get it, switching a standard, especially a standard that is so widely used, is always annoying for some time-period. But the switch started 7 years ago..

People complain because with phones they are losing function

No, people complain because it's a change and change is annoying.. There is no actual loss of function, the audio jack doesn't have any function that USB doesn't have.