I would be concerned about him feeling like you owe him something for it.

I was more referring to this (and expanding it a bit because it's not just sex, but also murder and misogyny). The slight possible benefit of "she appreciates it" just doesn't outweigh the bad. Sure there's a difference between holding the door and paying for something cheap like that and further to something expensive, but on average a woman who is at friend level 0 I wouldn't hold the door, a random guy at friend level 0 I probably would, neither get a movie ticket. And a guy at friend level idk 3, I might cover on the ticket but he's for sure on his own for snacks, a woman at friend level 3 I'm holding that door, but she's covering her ticket and food, and so on.

Like for example, a good friend of mine who is a woman, today she asked for my help on something: No problem! Of course, I watched her struggle with it for a bit before she asked and wasn't going to offer help though she clearly needed it, lest she think I think she's incapable. Real double edged sword of rudeness. Had she been our male coworker/friend, I'd have hit him with "struggling huh? Let me help lol" for what is clearly a two person job anyway, but no way I'm gonna offer to help her before she asks and double no way I'm lightly ribbing her like I would my male friend.

Yeah sure but do you think "Europeans not tipping" will actually change the entire tipping culture, or will it just piss off those specific servers and after you leave everything goes back to normal? Which do you think is more likely?

Yes.

This is why I don't really do anything nice for anybody anymore (beyond established platonic friends), especially women.

Dudes know I don't want to fuck them and just want to be friends (or acquaintances or whatever), so with them I can just be a normal human. I can hold the door to the gas station for some random plumber behind me, I can pay for my homie's taco today and he'll probably get me next week, it'll come back around.

But if I open a door for a woman whether I'm interested or not, pay for her anything, or talk to her, I have to be worried about her now either A) she thinks I'm a creep for trying to form a basic human connection to fill a basic human need that most people beyond aro and aces need [whether or not I actually am committing the mortal sin of carnal optimism or not], or B) she thinks Ted Bundy's ghost is possessing my body and I must be hiding a tire iron in my sleeve, or C) She thinks I think she's physically incapable of opening the door because she assumes I think women are inferior. It feels like I'm walking on eggshells 24/7 trying not to do something that seems innocuous to me but is a grave insult or threat when divorced from the context of "I would have held the door for a guy too."

Exception: Old ladies. They're cool, usually. They don't mind general niceties or conversation and don't immediately suspect me of murders untold. I'm also kind of an old lady at heart which probably helps, "give me your gardening tips, Doris! Say, do you like The Golden Girls?"

Nahhhhh the curls can't be called "payots" that's too on... shit I can't finish that phrase in this context, I need an idiom thesaurus. Anyway if this was a TV show they'd say the writing was hacky.

If you ask most of the dickheads in these comments "that isn't good enough" but also I hope it's only for people with any Euro accent lol.

Well good then, it really is that easy.

It's their fault things are the way they are. Not servers

That's the point, fucking over someone who has absolutely nothing to do with your grievances is A) a dick move and B) not "fixing the system" as half the dingbats in here are claiming.

This might sound radical to someone like you. But hear me out. If servers rely on a 20% tip on every meal. Why not just include that in the price for the start and it will never be a problem. You know, like how the rest of the world does it.

I'm not gonna go back up in the thread to prove it, but since I said it 500 times to probably all 500 of the cheapskate commenters, I'm gonna assume I'm saying this to you again, possibly for the 3rd or 4th time, so pick it up this time:

Sure. But there's a difference between what "should be" and what "is." Until we get to where "should be" becomes "is,” we have to live with "is." As it is now, currently, right now, during the event that people are currently here for now, the system is tipping, so behave as "is" while working towards "should" (or just y'know get with the goddamn program for the week you're here then go the fuck back and stop worrying about it, which is what I'd do in your shoes, but you do you.)

Yeah right lmao, where, NYC 5 star restaurants? Try Omaha.

Last restaurant job I left I was making about $15,000/yr, barely surviving.

Yeah I may make a bit more now that I left the industry but not that goddamn much, I have to work, I have bills to pay. Since you have so much free time you go right ahead.

I'll continue only supporting businesses that pay (at least more) fairly, and tipping when I do end up at one of those places by chance.

"What are you gonna do about it?"

Lmao my dude this is the internet, I guess punch yourself for me, afaik I can't uber eats you a punch yet.

What do you want me to hack your computer and make it explode like the movies? Well I'm not Mossad lmao so I haven't snuck C4 in your damn graphics card.

Cringe as fuck lmao, Jesus fucking Christ you should be embarrassed haha.

Here you go buddy: I'll fuck your mom.

Happy now?

It is NOT solidarity with the workers if I allow myself to be exploited by the employer in addition to them.

Good then that means you won't go at all. That's even better.

However, it is not my job to pay the workers

If you go to a restaurant that relies on tips, yes it is. You chose to go there, and that is how 8t works there. Just go to a place without tips that pays fair, problem solved.

And if I get the answer then that it’s customary here to pay 20% more than the amount on the bill, then I say "no thanks" and leave - because I have to assume then that wages aren't at a decent, humane level?

YES.

That doesn't work for me, would be rude.

Worker solidarity is rude? Well that's fine, go. THEN TIP.

I just want to go out for a meal. When I’m a guest somewhere in a foreign country, it’s certainly not my place to get involved in such sensitive issues.

Yes it is, if you go to that country. It isn't your place if you stay the fuck home, outlander. Otherwise observe the customs of where you travel. You must be British, I've heard people internationally hate them more than Americans and I'm betting your attitude is why.

With any reputable business where I make a purchase, I expect to be quoted a reasonable price with no hidden extra costs

OH, so you will leave when it's a disreputable exploitative business?

That doesn't work for me, would be rude.

Ah yeah, right. Why would you bother with consistency, you don't need that for a FAKE moral high ground.

Gtfo, we don't want you here.

Sorry, either that was for one of the other 40 of you or it was meant to be the royal "you," depending. And I'm not going back to figure out which.

But that's good that you do (if you go places that require it).

Sure, I'm all for it, my arguments are varied about the 40 of you but the jist is as follows:

• Sure it'd be great if it changed, but
• it has not. So while you're here visiting the country either
• don't go to tipped places if you refuse to tip, or
• tip if you do,
• because not tipping only hurts the worker.
• no it doesn't "hurt the boss too,"
• no it isn't "the only way to change the system,"
• it isn't even a way to change the system
• and even if it was, it's not going to happen in time for the people who are already here to see it
• sure accidents happen, you may not know
• once you learn, if you choose not to tip the worker that has only committed the mortal sin of serving your food
• it just makes you an asshole.

(For context in this one I definitely mean the royal "you," not the "you" you. "You" you said you do tip lol.)

Not every place, many do eat the cost, but many do charge the waiter as if it's their responsibility to stop you, yes.

It's definitely theft. If I go into a store, open a coke, take a sip, go "eww" and walk out, the store can no longer sell that used coke and has to trash it. Same at a restaurant.

Yeah, not in the US. Here if it says $19.99 for anything anywhere you know that's not including tax, because that is how it works here.

We can talk about how it should be all day and we likely agree, the difference is that you refuse to recognize what is, and think hurting the worker by not tipping but making them serve you for free (instead of boycotting exploitative businesses entirely) is the answer.

Just don't go. That's it, it's that simple.

Because when the customer doesn't tip, it hurts the server who is already likely barely scraping by. It's not a big deal if you're a customer that doesn't care about the worker, or if you're the owner of the restaurant, however.

Sure, but until they do, don't support exploitative businesses, or if you do, at least take care of the worker being exploited instead of doubling down on it and making it worse for them.

The tips aren't only subsidizing the restaurant owner, they're also what makes sure your server can eat and afford rent, until that changes not tipping only hurts the worker.

How about instead of a "tip strike" (aka "make the servers work for free until they get fed up because fuck them") you do a "boycott" ("not fucking go at all so you don't have to tip and you're not forcing the worker to serve you for free")?

You can't sacrifice your night out for your ideals but you can inconvenience your server? Real magnanimous, thanks.

I think you're attempting to be facetious, but like

YES.

So in America that is called "theft." You can't (well you can but it is illegal and you can be charged with a crime) just steal the food and leave.

And in some cases (not all,) that server is forced to pay for the meal you skipped out on. Not a great thing to do to someone tbh, even if you're mad they didn't bring your refill quick enough.